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[Filter]

The way I see it, there's no way that Nintendo will let you buy a handheld game and then let you run it on a tv as well without paying an extra fee.

It would be replacing their future home console income. Nintendo will be planning on having a beefed up version of their system that is purely for home tv use, that uses this new OS.

Not only that but each handheld game would have to be optimised to be able to run at tv resolutions of 720 or 1080. Effectively meaning that every game would have to have extra work put into it, without any extra money coming in to cover it. And many people playing the handheld version will never play those games plugged into a tv. So basically extra work put in for less money and not guaranteed to be used by everyone.

A more Nintendo way of doing it would be to sell the handheld version of the game, then also offer a download for $10 or so, that allows that particular game to run on the tv.

Nintendo is super good at squeezing extra money out of people and I don't see how this fantasy of a console-powerful handheld that replaces an entire revenue stream fits into that. As per usual before a Nintendo launch, there's a lot of wishful thinking going on before the eventual crash and depression caused by the actual reveal of what they've really made. Which is a shame because it causes most people to just get upset about the specs of the thing rather than get excited about the gameplay made possible by the weird and inventive hardware they come out with.

 

[heidern]

Yes. It should be 720p or higher once you get to 6". Not just in terms of pixels per inch but also for the console-style experiences that a chunk of the NX's games library will cater to.

Breath of the Wild at 540p is going to be a compromise over the Wii U version which runs at 720p, and will be a poor show when the inevitable comparisons between formats rolls in.

The Wii U tablet is 854x480 which is 409920 pixels.
540p is 960x720 which is 691200 pixels. That's 68% more pixels so it would be an improvement over the Wii U version...

 

[Toadthemushroom]

If Nintendo were charging for people to play a game in a different way, that would completely squander the whole point of making a hybrid, and significantly lower the value proposition (to the consumer) of picking a device which has built in dual controllers, a kickstand, and a TV dock.

 

[KojiKnight]

Most likely Nintendo will offer 2 versions of the NX at launch just like the 3DS. One will likely have a smaller 540p Screen while a larger more expensive version will likely have the higher resolution screen that some are craving

This won't happen. Nintendo is not going to ask developers to choose multiple portable form factors with different performance expectations.

Just like the 3ds and 3ds XL have the same resolution despite being different size screens.

 

[Filter]

If Nintendo were charging for people to play a game in a different way, that would completely squander the whole point of making a hybrid, and significantly lower the value proposition (to the consumer) of picking a device which has built in dual controllers, a kickstand, and a TV dock.

Why would it have a kickstand so that you can use it as tv, while also having the option to plug it into a tv? It doesn't make sense.
A kickstand gets rid of the whole portable idea. You can't use it while on the train or wherever. And if you do find a table, you are supposed to put this tiny screen down then sit far away from it, maybe with a friend and use the detachable controllers (which would have motion control in them as well) to play games. Wouldn't Nintendo rather sell a handheld per person like they normally do?

It really sounds like something in this rumour is way off. Do major hardware releases from Nintendo ever have rumours that are accurate? I don't remember any rumours predicting the wiimotes or the wiiU gamepad.

 

[gafneo]

These are the graphics if we are talking tegra

 

[Toadthemushroom]

Why would it have a kickstand so that you can use it as tv, while also having the option to plug it into a tv? It doesn't make sense.
A kickstand gets rid of the whole portable idea. You can't use it while on the train or wherever. And if you do find a table, you are supposed to put this tiny screen down then sit far away from it, maybe with a friend and use the detachable controllers (which would have motion control in them as well) to play games. Wouldn't Nintendo rather sell a handheld per person like they normally do?

It really sounds like something in this rumour is way off. Do major hardware releases from Nintendo ever have rumours that are accurate? I don't remember any rumours predicting the wiimotes or the wiiU gamepad.

It has a kickstand so people can play local multiplayer games anywhere - see the original Eurogamer piece. I'm guessing Nintendo wants a device that's truly unshackled from the TV, but supports TV viewing when it's needed. I don't think a kickstand compromises the device as a portable. The Surface tablets pioneered the kickstand, and they are tablets you primarily hold like any other portable device. The kickstand in the NX could very well be one of the big features that make up the "brand new concept" that the NX is. Nintendo could be designing local multiplayer games which work without a TV screen -- think back to that board game shown on the Wii U GamePad during the original E3 2011 trailer.

The Wii U tablet is 854x480 which is 409920 pixels.
540p is 960x720 which is 691200 pixels. That's 68% more pixels so it would be an improvement over the Wii U version...

I've had a Vita since launch and I can see with 100% certainty that 544p on that format is not enough for the TV-designed interfaces of console ports to make it over comfortably. So many games have tiny HUDs and text to the point where the larger screen of the Vita isn't actually being used to create a more comfortable experience - you still have to hold it close up to your face to see everything. I find it more comfortable to play games on my New 3DS XL, which basically renders a 240p at the same screen size instead.

There's a reason why each pixel of the iPad was made to be bigger (even when pixel doubled at a higher ppi) than the iPhone - it's because a device of that size is more comfortable to use when you hold it further away from your face. The iPad Mini then shipped with pixels the same size as an iPhone and it's a much less comfortable experience as you end up having to hold it as close to your face as a phone to see everything properly.

Furthermore, 544p is not an improvement over any Wii U version, it's still a compromise like a lot of games are when played using off-TV. Xenoblade X suffers the worst because its interface and game world were clearly designed for the large TV and 720p, and Breath of the Wild isn't going to scale down handsomely either based on what we've seen.

 

[Jacobi]

In Nintendo tradition, I expect two WiiUs taped together

 

[BDGAME]

OP another error you made is that 540p is 960x540 hence 1080p has exactly 4x the pixels.

In my opinion 540p for a tablet is really too low especially if nintendo is aiming to catch mobile gamers, i know that nintendo is cheap but one thing is a handheld another is a tablet, also a tablet isn't really portable, 7 inches should be the max imo.

Thanks. Fixed. I agree about the screen size.

 

[heidern]

Furthermore, 544p is not an improvement over any Wii U version, it's still a compromise like a lot of games are when played using off-TV. Xenoblade X suffers the worst because its interface and game world were clearly designed for the large TV and 720p, and Breath of the Wild isn't going to scale down handsomely either based on what we've seen.

It might not scale down handsomely, but it would scale down more handsomely than the Wii U version. I think that Nintendo will likely prioritise selecting a resolution that they think provides acceptable 3D graphics and will take 2D interface elements for granted.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

It might not scale down handsomely, but it would scale down more handsomely than the Wii U version. I think that Nintendo will likely prioritise selecting a resolution that they think provides acceptable 3D graphics and will take 2D interface elements for granted.

Now that it's a hybrid device I'm just not seeing a resolution that doesn't match the TV output on its own screen. It's not going to feel right at all if you take your 720p/1080p image from the TV and switch to playing at a lower resolution on the screen of the device itself with all the compromises that brings with it.

I don't think the Wii U GamePad is a great example either, since the Wii U renders the image at 720p and then sends a downscaled stream of that image to the GamePad. So the Wii U is still rendering 720p internally.

Back when we all thought there'd be a handheld and a console, I was pretty happy with the idea of a 544p display.

 

[heidern]

Back when we all thought there'd be a handheld and a console, I was pretty happy with the idea of a 544p display.

We don't know the configuration of the hardware and the architecture. They may even go for a scalable architecture. Some interesting stuff on Pascal:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/gpu-architecture.html

Pascal is the first architecture to integrate the revolutionary NVIDIA NVLink™ high-speed bidirectional interconnect. This technology is designed to scale applications across multiple GPUs, delivering a 5x acceleration in interconnect bandwidth compared to today's best-in-class solution.

Pascal architecture unifies processor and data into a single package to deliver unprecedented compute efficiency. Using an innovative approach to memory design, CoWoS® (Chip-on-Wafer-on-Substrate) with HBM2 provides a 3x boost in memory bandwidth performance over NVIDIA Maxwell™ architecture.

According to http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-gpu-gtc-2015/
Pascal offers 4 times the mixed precision performance, supposedly the X1 offered 1TF of mixed precision.

 

[calc84maniac]

The Wii U tablet is 854x480 which is 409920 pixels.
540p is 960x720 which is 691200 pixels. That's 68% more pixels so it would be an improvement over the Wii U version...

Where did that 720 come from? That would be 720p (though not widescreen).

960x540 is 518400 pixels, which is only a 26% increase.

 

[Oregano]

Mentioning it in the Eurogamer thread but a 720p screen would actually be less expensive and cutting edge than the 3D screen was for the 3DS in 2011. Back in 2011 240p for 3D screens was standard(480p had only just been introduced).

Even from a hardware power/power consumption perspective 720p is probably not as bad as the 3D screen was for the 3DS. The 3DS had to have a backlight twice as strong(and backlights are power hogs) and also expend significant hardware resources to render two different perspectives. That's without mentioning the second backlight + resources going to the bottom screen.

I'm not confident enough to put money down on a 720p screen but I don't think it's as far fetched as other people seem to. Especially if Nintendo is going for Tegra X1 or higher.

 

[LeleSocho]

People trying to use pc API on consoles as argument on why it will be good/better hurts my brain incredibly.

Console use proprietary API tuned up for the hardware and this has been true for more than a decade so saying stuff like "Nintendo is going to use Vulkan because they are in the group" it's total bullcrap.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

Mentioning it in the Eurogamer thread but a 720p screen would actually be less expensive and cutting edge than the 3D screen was for the 3DS in 2011. Back in 2011 240p for 3D screens was standard(480p had only just been introduced).

Even from a hardware power/power consumption perspective 720p is probably not as bad as the 3D screen was for the 3DS. The 3DS had to have a backlight twice as strong(and backlights are power hogs) and also expend significant hardware resources to render two different perspectives. That's without mentioning the second backlight + resources going to the bottom screen.

I'm not confident enough to put money down on a 720p screen but I don't think it's as far fetched as other people seem to. Especially if Nintendo is going for Tegra X1 or higher.

Pretty much. an IPS 720p screen ships on most entry level phones today, and Nintendo no longer has to buy 3 screens like they did the 3DS (two for the upper parallax barrier and one for the touchscreen). My real concern is whether Nintnedo will use displays with 100% of the sRGB colour gamut, and displays which are properly calibrated at the factory. So far they haven't. It's a shame as the displays shipping in the DSi XL were great for the time - twin IPS.

 

[LeleSocho]

We don't know the configuration of the hardware and the architecture. They may even go for a scalable architecture. Some interesting stuff on Pascal:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/gpu-architecture.html





According to http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-gpu-gtc-2015/
Pascal offers 4 times the mixed precision performance, supposedly the X1 offered 1TF of mixed precision.

Neither NVLink nor HBM2 have to do with the NX

 

[ProtomanNeo]

The tech talk / speculation is fun, but in real world terms what we know is that the NX can run the new Zelda, on the go, and that's a first generation game, that alone is going to be fine for the average gamer.

 

[FunkyDealer]

I'd probably prefer two separate devices, one handheld and one home console, running the same OS/API and such.

But whatever Nintendo decides to do, it's gonna get interesting.

 

[Auron]

Sorry. For what I know it's 800x240p, no? But we see 400x240 when play with 3D.

Is that rigth?

3DS is 400x240 in 2D mode, and 800x240 in 3D mode.

 

[blu]

For who don't know Tegra X1 is not ideal as a handled/smarthphone chip. It was created to machines like the shield TV, that can use more power. In fact, the Tegra X1 alone can consumes 10W ( The Shield TV uses 20W while gaming). Compare this with other machines:

- NDS: 0.2 W
- 3DS: 4 W
- Vita: 5W
- GPD: 10W
- Iphone6: 12W
- Ipad Pro: 35W
- Wii U: 40W

The 12.9" ipad pro has a battery of 38.5Wh, which gives it 4.05h in BaseMark OS2 battery life test, and ~3.8h in the T-Rex on-screen test. That translates roughly to 9.5W of consumption in the BaseMark test, and 10.13W in the GFXBench test.

There's no hypothetical chance that device draws 35W (even if we assumed it had active cooling, preventing it from turning into a cooking plate).

 

[BDGAME]

The 12.9" ipad pro has a battery of 38.5Wh, which gives it 4.05h in BaseMark OS2 battery life test, and ~3.8h in the T-Rex on-screen test. That translates roughly to 9.5W of consumption in the BaseMark test, and 10.13W in the GFXBench test.

There's no hypothetical chance that device draws 35W (even if we assumed it had active cooling, preventing it from turning into a cooking plate).

Thanks. Fixed.

I'd probably prefer two separate devices, one handheld and one home console, running the same OS/API and such.

But whatever Nintendo decides to do, it's gonna get interesting.

The idea of 2 or more machines with the same OS is what I think it will been at first. Now I don't know. I hope that hybrid thing can be good enough.

At least I will not need to buy 2 machines.

 

[Kimawolf]

Power wise? Im expecting xb1 lite on the go. Something noticeably better than the current best looking mobile game, Mobius FF. Which runs extremely well on my S7. So reason to think NX wil be weaker than that.

 

[G.ZZZ]

The cheapest and more common screen for tablets is 7" , 1366*768. I can see Nintendo going for those screens, and the resolution is just 10% higher in pixel counts compared to 720p.
Going for a 720p+ resolution also mean that current WiiU games that are being ported wouldn't need to be downscaled for the mobile NX version but could look almost exactly the same with some more pixels here and there. It would also means that asset, if they were to be used both in mobile and 1080p mode, could be the same since the two resolutions are much closer relatively than 540p and 1080p for example, so it would reduce significantly work for developers, especially if you consider that a lot of modern games use dinamics resolutions that go from 720p to 1080p during a game session.

It being exactly half pixels counts compared to 1080p (it's 1.98 times iirc), mean that an hypotetical dock mode going at double the clock of mobile mode would make 1080p native possible on TVs. This is doable if we assume that the console in dock will hit TX1 level of performances, aka 500 or so Gflops, and half that in mobile mode. That would be a 2SM Core 800 Mhz Pascal, with a consumption of about 4 W. I assume that's perfectly doable as you would turn off the screen in docked mode , which , at 7" , consume about 3W, so you'd be running in term of thermal constraints on a similar total Wattage.

In the scenario of the console staying at the same clock even in docked mode, having a 768p screen would make the transition to 1080p screens less horrible , being it slightly better than a 720p native upscaled, but possibly still worse than 540p uscale because of artifacts (no idea how actually good upscalers are for this, but 540p being a literal 2x mean 0 upscale processing).

 

[blu]

Thanks. Fixed.

Well, likewise for the iphone 6. I don't know where you got your original numbers from, but the iphone 6 has a 6.91Wh battery, and that gives it 2.3667h in GFXBench battery life test. That translates to ~3W of power draw in that test. If we were very conservative and bumped that figure to 5W, that still be a far cry from the 12W you've quoted.

Additionally, that part does not make sense either:

WiiU: 0.17 TFLOPS + fixed functions
GT635: 0.33 TFLOPS
X1: 0.51 TFLOPS at FP32 (1.02 at FP16, but its not much used in console games)
XOne: 1.23 TFLOPS
Ps4: 1.84 TFLOPS
Remember that TFlops in Nvidia is roughly 30% better performance than AMD devices.

Shaders:
- Wii U: 320 shaders @ 550 GHz

If Latte was 320 shaders @550 MHz (there's a typo as well), you'd have 352GFLOPS, as the way those things are normally computed is via Multiply-Adds (madds) - a dual-op. So Latte is either 160 shaders @ 550MHz = 176GFLOPS, or 320 shaders @ 550MHz = 352GFLOPS, but not both.

Last but not least, fp16 is not used in console games this gen at all because the GCN in the ps4/xbone does not support fp16 - that was introduced only in GCN 1.2.

 

[Negotiator]

Last but not least, fp16 is not used in console games this gen at all because the GCN in the ps4/xbone does not support fp16 - that was introduced only in GCN 1.2.

I asked before, but nobody answered:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=213587670&postcount=97

So, what about last-gen (RSX/Xenos)?

 

[blu]

I asked before, but nobody answered:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=213587670&postcount=97

So, what about last-gen (RSX/Xenos)?

A disclaimer: strictly re fp16 ALU support - buffer formats are not discussed.

IIRC, Xenos did not have fp16 ALU or register capabilites. I'm less familiar with the RSX, but 2nd-hand info says RSX had support for storing fp16 results in regs, but did not have fp16 ALUs per se, so fp16 did alleviate register pressure, but did not improve ALU latency (which was all fp32 internally).

 

[heidern]

Neither NVLink nor HBM2 have to do with the NX

http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/hbm

Beyond performance and power efficiency, HBM is also revolutionary in its ability to save space on a product. As gamers increasingly expect smaller and more powerful PCs, the elimination of bulky GDDR5 chips in favor of HBM can enable devices with exciting new form factors that pack a punch in a smaller size. Compared to GDDR5, HBM can fit the same amount of memory in 94% less space!

Sounds like the perfect memory for a handheld/tablet. Any reason why they wouldn't use it?

 

[Negotiator]

http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/hbm



Sounds like the perfect memory for a handheld/tablet. Any reason why they wouldn't use it?

It's not that power efficient, IIRC.

Mobile devices use LPDDR tech.

 

[Rodin]

Well, likewise for the iphone 6. I don't know where you got your original numbers from, but the iphone 6 has a 6.91Wh battery, and that gives it 2.3667h in GFXBench battery life test. That translates to ~3W of power draw in that test.

That's great to know, but now i'm even more confused about why some of us expect the same power draw of a 4.7" 6.9mm phone with a 1800mAh battery from a hybrid console.

http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/hbm



Sounds like the perfect memory for a handheld/tablet. Any reason why they wouldn't use it?

Mostly because it's super expensive. Not sure is also power efficient enough compared to LPDDR4+SRAM.

Thanks. Now I have a question: What exactly the fixed functions increase in Wii U to make a 160 Gflops hardware better than a 290?

The numbers are more like 176 gflops vs 209, but yeah. What blu said.

 

[BDGAME]

Well, likewise for the iphone 6. I don't know where you got your original numbers from, but the iphone 6 has a 6.91Wh battery, and that gives it 2.3667h in GFXBench battery life test. That translates to ~3W of power draw in that test. If we were very conservative and bumped that figure to 5W, that still a far cry from the 12W you've quoted.

Additionally, that part does not make sense either:



If Latte was 320 shaders @550 MHz (there's a typo as well), you'd have 352GFLOPS, as the way those things are normally computed is via Multiply-Adds (madds) - a dual-op. So Latte is either 160 shaders @ 550MHz = 176GFLOPS, or 320 shaders @ 550MHz = 352GFLOPS, but not both.

Last but not least, fp16 is not used in console games this gen at all because the GCN in the ps4/xbone does not support fp16 - that was introduced only in GCN 1.2.

Thanks. Now I have a question: What exactly the fixed functions increase in Wii U to make a 160 Gflops hardware better than a 290?

 

[blu]

Thanks. Now I have a question: What exactly the fixed functions increase in Wii U to make a 160 Gflops hardware better than a 290?

I assume you're talking of Latte and Xenos.

Those two are architecture generations and shader models apart - Xenos was a pre-TeraScale architecture, while Latte was the second iteration of the TeraScale. Xenos had an inadequately-sized (for its needs) eDRAM pool (10MB) which could only be a framebuffer, whereas Latte's eDRAM pool (32MB) was a general-use mem pool. Then come newer/better texture compression formats. Last but not least, the newer part used not only newer shade models, but newer toolchains as well - better compilers & debuggers.

 

[LeleSocho]

http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/hbm



Sounds like the perfect memory for a handheld/tablet. Any reason why they wouldn't use it?

Because if HBM2 is not yet ready for big ~1000$ graphic cards then it surely it isn't for a low cost console that has to be produced in millions, also it consumes more than LPDDR4. For now it's only ready for video cards that has to go in data centers.
NVLink for the same reasons more or less.

 

[AgeEighty]

We don't actually know that NX is "just" a portable machine. Nintendo have said on a number of occasions that it's a platform that isn't just limited to one hardware configuration. So even if the Eurogamer reports are true, that doesn't mean that's all NX is limited to.

 

[jdstorm]

This won't happen. Nintendo is not going to ask developers to choose multiple portable form factors with different performance expectations.

Just like the 3ds and 3ds XL have the same resolution despite being different size screens.

Who said anything about different kinds of performance expectations. You can still watch a 576i TV show on a screen capable of 1080p. You can also Downsample something rendering at native 1080p for a 540p screen. It would be no extra work for the developers.

 

[KojiKnight]

Who said anything about different kinds of performance expectations. You can still watch a 576i TV show on a screen capable of 1080p. You can also Downsample something rendering at native 1080p for a 540p screen. It would be no extra work for the developers.

So... The choices are to either scale an image up, so the higher resolution screen receives zero benefit and is just a larger cost for no gain, or to render an image at a much higher resolution, using more processing and battery power on the lower screen device that wouldn't even benefit from it (except as a marginal boost to AA).

On top of that, Nintendo now has to convince retailers to stock multiple SKUs, and explain these differences to a crowd of people who couldn't figure out that the Wii U was a new console...

Surely you can see the issues here right?

 

[AzaK]

Just for accuracy, Wii U runs at 33W. We established this a long time ago in the WUSTs.

 

[BDGAME]

Just for accuracy, Wii U runs at 33W. We established this a long time ago in the WUSTs.

OK, I put 33, but is this really the peak number? I'm trying to put the max, not a AVG.

 

[Astral Dog]

Yes. It should be 720p or higher once you get to 6". Not just in terms of pixels per inch but also for the console-style experiences that a chunk of the NX's games library will cater to.

Breath of the Wild at 540p is going to be a compromise over the Wii U version which runs at 720p, and will be a poor show when the inevitable comparisons between formats rolls in.

And going off the Vita and Wii U, I'm not going to place faith in developers to redesign their interfaces for 540p, which will lead to a lot of small UI elements and tiny text, both of which also look worse in lower resolutions. Anyone who has tried to play Xenoblade X off the Wii U GamePad can vouch for this, but also there are plenty of Vita games which just shrink down the console interface 1:1 from 1080p to 544p or 720p to 544p with no consideration for the difference in resolution and screen size.

So to avoid this Nintendo should ideally go for as large display as possible for the form factor, and make sure it's at least going to match the resolution of the TV output. Since the two sides of the NX come off to form individual controllers, the NX itself will have to be a certain height, so the screen will have to be much larger than 6" for the idea to be practical. Otherwise you end up with a huge device with massive, fat bezels around the screen like the Wii U GamePad. Gross.

The point was that it would scale better, but also a higher resolution screen would take more resources from the battery and graphics chip, if they want the biggest console experiences possible on a handheld, and at a reasonable, family friendly price they have to cut somewhere.it would still be much higher than 3DS.

everything is speculation, of course.

 

[Fantastical]

It really sounds like something in this rumour is way off. Do major hardware releases from Nintendo ever have rumours that are accurate? I don't remember any rumours predicting the wiimotes or the wiiU gamepad.

Nintendo's never waited this long to reveal a console and this industry is the leakiest it's ever been.

 

[cartman414]

Come to think of it, I still want something small form enough to put in my pocket, and the (New) 3DS XL was already pushing it. Unless they really commit to delivering on hardcore gaming experiences that justify the large size, a larger handheld could be a misfire on the mobile/handheld front.

Of course, this is all conjecture on my part.

 

[Pokemaniac]

OK, I put 33, but is this really the peak number? I'm trying to put the max, not a AVG.

IIRC 33 is the number when it's not powering optional things like USB stuff or the disc drive.

 

[jdstorm]

So... The choices are to either scale an image up, so the higher resolution screen receives zero benefit and is just a larger cost for no gain, or to render an image at a much higher resolution, using more processing and battery power on the lower screen device that wouldn't even benefit from it (except as a marginal boost to AA).

On top of that, Nintendo now has to convince retailers to stock multiple SKUs, and explain these differences to a crowd of people who couldn't figure out that the Wii U was a new console...

Surely you can see the issues here right?

Those issues are going to be exactly the same as what the NX has to deal with if/when it outputs to a TV. I see the issues, but they are inherent to the concept. For the NX to work properly it's going to have prioritise scaleability across multiple formats. Especially if they add a home console variant/Smart dock.

 

[AzaK]

OK, I put 33, but is this really the peak number? I'm trying to put the max, not a AVG.

This was the value full stop . I measured it at the wall while idle and loading/playing several games and it basically didn't budge. Maybe someone got something higher but I never saw it.

 

[pooh]

We don't know the configuration of the hardware and the architecture. They may even go for a scalable architecture. Some interesting stuff on Pascal:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/gpu-architecture.html





According to http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-gpu-gtc-2015/
Pascal offers 4 times the mixed precision performance, supposedly the X1 offered 1TF of mixed precision.

Interesting! I wasn't aware of this, but it certainly does fuel my speculation about an SCD.

 

[KojiKnight]

Those issues are going to be exactly the same as what the NX has to deal with if/when it outputs to a TV. I see the issues, but they are inherent to the concept. For the NX to work properly it's going to have prioritise scaleability across multiple formats. Especially if they add a home console variant/Smart dock.

No, it's really not... A tv dock is going to be constantly feeding power into the unit, not trying to maintain a balance between performance and battery life.

Maybe as an a different hand held 3 years down the line... "improved nx, play console nx level graphics in the new portable!"

But anywhere near launch or at the event where they announce the system. Zero chance. It would be a retail and logistical nightmare Nintendo can't afford.

 

[BDGAME]

Interesting! I wasn't aware of this, but it certainly does fuel my speculation about an SCD.

Just for curiosity, what speculation is that?

 

[Toadthemushroom]

The point was that it would scale better, but also a higher resolution screen would take more resources from the battery and graphics chip, if they want the biggest console experiences possible on a handheld, and at a reasonable, family friendly price they have to cut somewhere.it would still be much higher than 3DS.

everything is speculation, of course.

But it's going to have to render 720p or higher when it's connected to the TV anyway, and it's highly unlikely Nintendo is going to bundle a GPU in the dock given the cost involved to both Nintendo and developers.

They'd have to test two specs for each game and make sure a consistent experience is delivered both on handheld and with the extra GPU, which squanders the hybrid form factor.

 

[Mr Swine]

But it's going to have to render 720p or higher when it's connected to the TV anyway, and it's highly unlikely Nintendo is going to bundle a GPU in the dock given the cost involved to both Nintendo and developers.

They'd have to test two specs for each game and make sure a consistent experience is delivered both on handheld and with the extra GPU, which squanders the hybrid form factor.

Not only that, having a port on the NX that connects to a dock with an external GPU is pretty expensive. So they won't do that

 

[mhayze]

A disclaimer: strictly re fp16 ALU support - buffer formats are not discussed.

IIRC, Xenos did not have fp16 ALU or register capabilites. I'm less familiar with the RSX, but 2nd-hand info says RSX had support for storing fp16 results in regs, but did not have fp16 ALUs per se, so fp16 did alleviate register pressure, but did not improve ALU latency (which was all fp32 internally).

My understanding is that unlike home consoles, most modern mobile GPUs do still use mixed precision and some fp16 and can see big speedups when fp16 is used. I'm not sure what the state of the GPU is in tegra, since it's clearly been optimized for mobile or pseudo mobile use, and could probably benefit from fp16 use.