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[0racle]

I really dont get it?

im not following much but how is this a home console? the specs are quite low, how will it get any 3rd party support for games that are also on ps4/xbox one? ( pro and scorpio? )?

Just because it slides into a piece of plastic with a TV out port does not make it a home console? am I the only one that sees this as a nintendo tablet?

 

[Skittzo0413]

Ok time for the big question of the day.

Does a device using a disc based format require more RAM than a device that does not? I have a feeling it probably does but I have nothing to back this up yet.

Considering PS4 and XB1 install games to the HDD, I don't think it makes a difference whether or not more RAM is needed when reading from a disk. Unless more RAM is still needed when reading from a HDD than a solid state card.

 

[guek]

For battery.

OH, haha, nevermind then

Battery life is pretty much inconsequential if it has USB-C and isn't something stupid like an hour.

 

[LordOfChaos]

It's sounding pretty similar to a Shield TV you can take on the go. Maxwell 2, 256 cores, 4 a57s though the Shield also has 4 A53s and I think it can use all 8 together, the TV had 3GB LPDDR4 so the Switch will have decently more towards games I'd guess.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9289/the-nvidia-shield-android-tv-review

 

[Oregano]

Nice! Thank you Skittzo! Personally, I think Nintendo should have built a system that could push Zelda, 3D Mario, and Mario Kart in 1080p while docked. If they have not done this with Switch, they've made a mistake in my book. The concept is cool, but not as strong as Wii where they can bank on that and that alone.



Why not give people the option to store things on an HDD, though? I don't think casual users are even aware that Wii U can do this. Would it really cause a harmful amount of confusion?



That's some good news. Thanks for relaying the message. I do think the battery life issue is overblown. At the same time, this really does validate many of the concerns people had about the concept of a hybrid in the first place.

I think it solely comes down to the risk of someone undocking whilst running software on the HDD. That seems like a bricking liability.

 

[TheDeadHeroAlistair]

I thought Emily had better cred on Neogaf? Lol her topic got closed.

To quote modbot, it was a thread based on a tweet, that so far hasn't been corroborated by anyone other credible sources (to my knowledge, at least). There were issues in the past when creating threads based on information like this, so it isn't that unexpected that the thread was locked. So this isn't a stab at Emily's credibility herself, but rather the information posted.

 

[Vena]

Considering PS4 and XB1 install games to the HDD, I don't think it makes a difference whether or not more RAM is needed when reading from a disk. Unless more RAM is still needed when reading from a HDD than a solid state card.

5400RPM platter discs are slow molasses. If the Switch does indeed have data access storage onboard and in the cards, that's a different and unique scenario that the twins cannot achieve. 4GB is small but we'll need a good bit more info before we know the full story. NVidia itself has solutions for low memory ans bandwidth. I'd be amazed if they werent involved.

OH, haha, nevermind then

Battery life is pretty much inconsequential if it has USB-C and isn't something stupid like an hour.

USB-C and 4, sounds decent enough.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Nice! Thank you Skittzo! Personally, I think Nintendo should have built a system that could push Zelda, 3D Mario, and Mario Kart in 1080p while docked. If they have not done this with Switch, they've made a mistake in my book. The concept is cool, but not as strong as Wii where they can bank on that and that alone.



Why not give people the option to store things on an HDD, though? I don't think casual users are even aware that Wii U can do this. Would it really cause a harmful amount of confusion?

You're welcome! Regarding an HDD, considering Nintendo has been placing a huge focus on digital download revenue, I am pretty confident that Nintendo has thought of a good storage solution for the Switch. Could be cloud storage, could be a local cloud storage device which streams to the Switch (to store games, not to play games off the storage).

Whatever it is, I don't think they'd knowingly prevent people from doing a fair amount of digital downloads, as they know there's a lot of revenue there.


EDIT:

5400RPM platter discs are slow molasses. If the Switch does indeed have data access storage onboard and in the cards, that's a different and unique scenario that the twins cannot achieve. 4GB is small but we'll need a good bit more info before we know the full story. NVidia itself has solutions for low memory ans bandwidth. I'd be amazed if they werent involved.

Right, I'm sure Nintendo and Nvidia are well aware of third party requirements for RAM. I guess we can't know for sure yet if the game cards will have a faster read speed than 5400RPM HDDs, but I guess it's seeming pretty likely? Do we know the read speeds for 3DS cards?

 

[Fourth Storm]

I think it solely comes down to the risk of someone undocking whilst running software on the HDD. That seems like a bricking liability.

There must be something that can be done. What happens if you eject a game or unplug an HDD on Wii U? I've done the former and the console has lived to tell the tale. I don't think that's the reason.

And while I'm catching up (and whining), if this insider is confirming RAM bandwidth at 25.6 GB/s...good lawd. I am disappoint.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Thanks, but is it feasible to only allocate 0.8 GBs for the OS?

I don't know what we expect the OS to be doing, but when I see a figure like that I still think the opposite. "Geez, they're holding back more than 1.5 X360s worth of memory for background stuff?"

On a more serious note, let's say we're talking about a really ambitious Nintendo game like a possible XCX sequel. With eveything we "know" so far, should this thing be at least strong enough to run their games at 1080p, 60(solid 30)fps with some AA thrown in there in docked mode?

It's pretty impossible to have a machine that could run absolutely anything at 1080p60. If that was a priority, it could've been done with XCX on Wii U to the detriment of other things.

I'm honestly a bit dissapointed. Sure that's fantastic for a handheld, but it looks to be even weaker to the current gen consoles then we thought

How so? Non-OS RAM is like 60% of what it is for the other systems, which is higher than most guesstimates of relative GPU power come to--especially if it's PS4 on the other end of the comparison.

Wait...isn't Shadow of Mordor a current generation game? If they were going to do that, then why not just port more recent games, too? I can understand what you're saying if you're talking about games that were 360/PS3 ports.

It's cross-gen.

4GB for a portable is fine.

It's a home console though.

Every time I see this dance or the reverse happening in one of these Switch threads, I imagine a bunch of people arguing about whether a spork is a spoon or a fork.

 

[LordRaptor]

Anyway there's a reason if every recent mobile SoC doesn't use this crap instead of the newer, faster, smaller and less power hungry A72, which is why this would piss me off even more than the pathetic amount of RAM. This is still assuming the rumors are true obviously.

The reasons are related to size, power and getting the most from the chip.
Mobile builders not using the A57 doesn't mean any more about the quality of the chip than mobile builders not using Jaguar does.

The Switch isn't a mobile phone, so things that are important to consider when building a mobile phone don't apply.

To quote modbot, it was a thread based on a tweet, that so far hasn't been corroborated by anyone other credible sources (to my knowledge, at least).

Ironically, that's this thread too.

 

[nikatapi]

Why not give people the option to store things on an HDD, though? I don't think casual users are even aware that Wii U can do this. Would it really cause a harmful amount of confusion?

I would also like to have the option, but it breaks the whole concept, if you start put asterisks on how you can get the game on the go then it's not as simple as it was shown on the trailer, and i think this is the main "gimmick" of the system. So it would be nice, but i don't think it would be in their favor from the moment it fundamentally breaks the concept of taking your game on the go at any time.

 

[Peltz]

I really dont get it?

im not following much but how is this a home console? the specs are quite low, how will it get any 3rd party support for games that are also on ps4/xbox one? ( pro and scorpio? )?

Just because it slides into a piece of plastic with a TV out port does not make it a home console? am I the only one that sees this as a nintendo tablet?

You're correct. It's not a traditional console. It's a hybrid that likely down clocks when portable and runs at full speed when playing on the dock.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Oh boy. All these confirmed rumors and considering this is everything the Switch has (and nothing more) or any secrets at all shows the Switch is gonna be another Nintendo failed system.


/s

I don't see what's to worry about. Nintendo hasn't revealed everything.

It was always good to have expectations for the Switch to have plentiful Nintendo games, indie games, Japanese games and exclusive third party games.

To quote modbot, it was a thread based on a tweet, that so far hasn't been corroborated by anyone other credible sources (to my knowledge, at least). There were issues in the past when creating threads based on information like this, so it isn't that unexpected that the thread was locked. So this isn't a stab at Emily's credibility herself, but rather the information posted.

Dude. This thread is from a Twitter post. Shouldn't this thread be closed?

 

[AntMurda]

This is starting to look legit. No Parker and no 6-8GB ram.

 

[Somnid]

So you guys going on about RAM, you are aware that Samsung announced they are producing the world's first 8GB chip of LPDDR4 for phones 10 days ago?

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-rolls-out-industrys-first-8gb-lpddr4-dram-package

Instead of comparing it to consoles 8x the size, maybe you should just check if what you were asking is even reasonable.

 

[mrklaw]

Very intrigued about Vern's comments regarding apps. We know the Switch has a share button, and with 800MB of RAM for the OS I'd guess it won't be as fully featured as PS4's share function. Unless there is some sort of streaming going on as the posters above have theorized.

I can't find this post--did it get deleted? Perhaps somebody leaked more than they should have?

What it tells me is that Nintendo's patent for utilizing home PCs et al to boost the power is coming into play here, and that would be a very, very good thing.

My guess earlier - considering Vern mentioned the switch having a 'web browser' - was that you could run most apps as web apps, so you wouldn't necessarily need discrete standalone apps. Why bother with a netflix app if you could just stream through the browser?

 

[Vena]

This is starting to look legit. No Parker and no 6-8GB ram.

Pascal has been reconfirmed several times in the last few pages...?

 

[AntMurda]

Pascal has been reconfirmed several times in the last few pages...?

Really? X2/Parker then? But honestly I was wondering if even X1 / 4GB RAM could do the Wii U ports at 1080p?

 

[Rodin]

The reasons are related to size, power and getting the most from the chip.
Mobile builders not using the A57 doesn't mean any more about the quality of the chip than mobile builders not using Jaguar does.

The Switch isn't a mobile phone, so things that are important to consider when building a mobile phone don't apply.



Ironically, that's this thread too.

Not sure what you're saying here, but A72 would've meant at least getting the same performances at a lower power draw, while generating less heat and taking less space on the die. All pretty important things for a device like this.

There's simply no excuse to use shitty A57 in 2017. That's fact. No reason to spin it.

This is starting to look legit. No Parker and no 6-8GB ram.

It does use the same architecture as Parker (Pascal), but that doesn't mean it offers the same performances.

So you guys going on about RAM, you are aware that Samsung announced they are producing the world's first 8GB chip of LPDDR4 for phones 10 days ago?

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-rolls-out-industrys-first-8gb-lpddr4-dram-package

Instead of comparing it to consoles 8x the size, maybe you should just check if what you were asking is even reasonable.

Can you point me to one post asking for 8GB? Not that what unreasonable people want makes 4GB good.

Really? X2/Parker then? But honestly I was wondering if even X1 / 4GB RAM could do the Wii U ports at 1080p?

It can do more than that. That's not the point though.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Pascal has been reconfirmed several times in the last few pages...?

Unless I'm missing something Vern has said he doesn't think it will be Pascal, while Nate Drake says he's quite confident that it will be. So I wouldn't say anything is confirmed.

And either way Pascal =/= Parker.

 

[Sora the Cat]

No Parker is a thing, but not in the sense that you'd like.


Can you point me to one post asking for 8GB?


It can do more than that. That's not the point though.

This thread is full of people asking for 8gb lol

 

[vern]

My guess earlier - considering Vern mentioned the switch having a 'web browser' - was that you could run most apps as web apps, so you wouldn't necessarily need discrete standalone apps. Why bother with a netflix app if you could just stream through the browser?

I did not say that the Switch had a browser. I think someone else was speculating about that.

 

[Doctre81]

No Parker is a thing, but not in the sense that you'd like.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I would also like to have the option, but it breaks the whole concept, if you start put asterisks on how you can get the game on the go then it's not as simple as it was shown on the trailer, and i think this is the main "gimmick" of the system. So it would be nice, but i don't think it would be in their favor from the moment it fundamentally breaks the concept of taking your game on the go at any time.

I do understand this. It's forcing the consumer to pay a premium for storage, though, over the HDD options. I thought Nintendo would be pushing big for digital to get their margins up, but between this and the lackluster My Nintendo discounts, I am not so sure anymore. Seems more like they are catering to their retails partners--probably due to the heat they got after Wii U's failure.

I need to see what's in store with the January event before passing more judgement. I have never expected huge western 3rd party support, but Nintendo would be wise to at least keep those doors open.

 

[PdotMichael]

I like how we are already at the famous secret sauce theories.

 

[Niwa]

This is all still hypothetically, right?

 

[Rodin]

This thread is full of people asking for 8gb lol

I've only read people asking for 6, me included, which wasn't unrealistic at all and i also said why it would've been the best and most obvious choice.

But since Nintendo is so interested in cutting costs, they shouldn't mind if people will want to do the same thing when deciding how much they're willing to spend for this thing.

This is all still hypothetically, right?

Yeah, but many people are saying the same thing at this point.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Unless I'm missing something Vern has said he doesn't think it will be Pascal, while Nate Drake says he's quite confident that it will be. So I wouldn't say anything is confirmed.

And either way Pascal =/= Parker.

I think this point has been getting lost. NVidia has confirmed that Switch runs on a custom Tegra. Parker is a specific chip. It's not Parker. I don't think Nintendo would go for Denver cores, either, but you never know.

 

[oti]

OH, haha, nevermind then

Battery life is pretty much inconsequential if it has USB-C and isn't something stupid like an hour.

Since it's too big to carry around in your pocket having a Powerbank with you for this doesn't sound too bad at all to me. Not interested in playing it with the Joy-Con detached as shown in the plane segment in the trailer though.

 

[Skittzo0413]

I like how we are already at the famous secret sauce theories.

Um, what? What thread are you reading?

This is all still hypothetically, right?

Insiders have said that the (I still think fake) leak in the OP is close to what we can expect for the final retail unit. It's still likely faked due to the source of the leak, but they essentially listed what's in the devkit if Nintendo is using standard Tegra X1s in the devkit, as rumored previously. So it's likely more of an educated guess than a leak.

I've only read people asking for 6, me included, which wasn't unrealistic at all and i also said why it would've been the best and most obvious choice.

But since Nintendo is so interested in cutting costs, they shouldn't mind if people want to do the same thing when deciding how much they're willing to spend for this thing.

Based on things Nintendo execs have been saying, along with that MCV rumor I think that's exactly why they're cutting costs. I'm now more convinced of $199 than I ever have been.

 

[metalslimer]

Is 6gb even the standard for mobile devices yet? I thought most were still using 4.

 

[Anth0ny]

4gb seems good for a handheld

 

[Zil33184]

The Switch is too weak in comparison to have lots of PS4 ports and it's a different architecture. I don't think the RAM would have changed this. No one should expect majority of multiplatform games on Switch. The trailer for Switch didn't have many current gen multiplatform games. It showed old stuff like Skyrim.

It all depends on bandwidth and resolution. There's no way Switch could run console quality ports at 720p, but if it had 50GB/s memory bandwidth it should be able to run console titles at qHD resolution. The CPU would also be weaker than what's in the current consoles, so other cuts would have to be made there as well.

Problem is the dev kit spec was half of what you'd need for that level of qHD performance.

 

[Snakeyes]

Is 6gb even the standard for mobile devices yet? I thought most were still using 4.

Nearly all of this year's flagship phones use 4GB.

 

[Durante]

Really? X2/Parker then?

I get tired of saying this, but being based on Pascal GPU cores doesn't mean that it has to be Parker, or even has to have anything to do with any of the other properties of Parker.

 

[nikatapi]

I do understand this. It's forcing the consumer to pay a premium for storage, though, over the HDD options. I thought Nintendo would be pushing big for digital to get their margins up, but between this and the lackluster My Nintendo discounts, I am not so sure anymore. Seems more like they are catering to their retails partners--probably due to the heat they got after Wii U's failure.

I need to see what's in store with the January event before passing more judgement. I have never expected huge western 3rd party support, but Nintendo would be wise to at least keep those doors open.

Yeah this is something i've been thinking as well, even though microSD are getting cheaper they're still much more expensive than a HDD. Combined with the rumored 32gb internal storage it's becoming troublesome for someone who wants to go full digital especially considering the bigger game sizes compared to the 3DS for example. Buying multiple cards isn't an elegant option either, aside from the cost.

 

[mugurumakensei]

I get tired of saying this, but being based on Pascal GPU cores doesn't mean that it has to be Parker, or even has to have anything to do with any of the other properties of Parker.

Yep. I'd imagine it's going to be downclocked to around X1 speeds if it is Pascal. Nintendo would be using it for thermals, efficiency, and feature set not power.

 

[mrklaw]

I did not say that the Switch had a browser. I think someone else was speculating about that.

Lol not trying to make you guys guess. Just assume it doesn't need much RAM for other tasks. I mean, you've already got a browser and presumably a few of them. Think of other ways that Nintendo can utilize apps.

ah so I misread. You mean people already have browsers around them on other devices - phones etc, so why bother with one on the switch?


I'm sure Nintendo have numbers around how many people actually used the browser/netflix/etc on 3DS and therefore whether they should even bother with those on the switch.

 

[Doczu]

Same. If this has similar horse power to Wii U, then I don't expect Zelda to run that much better on it. If I can't port my wiiu virtual games over, I will not get a switch.

I will still (probably) get one, but i'm reluctant in buying vc games. Eshop games not carying over is fine, but my 3DS would become the ultimate vc machine for retro if they won't allow free transfer.

 

[LordOcidax]

Nearly all of this year's flagship phones use 4GB.

Did you know that the Switch is NOT a phone....

 

[Aostia]

Seems pretty well balanced for what it is but price will be the key for judgment

 

[MCN]

Did you know that the Switch is NOT a phone....

No, it'll be much cheaper than that.

 

[lwilliams3]

Starts from this post and goes on.

Essentially, user Vern is an insider who has talked to the mods already and reported a few things about the Switch throughout the various threads, including 4GB of RAM with 3.2 for games. If I recall correctly he also confirmed that charging the Switch in the dock does indeed allow the GPU to upclock and output at 1080p, and has hinted that the Switch will include a mic and camera in some capacity.

When was this said?

 

[LordOcidax]

No, it'll be much cheaper than that.

And more powerful too.

 

[Trago]

4GB is fine for a tablet. This is a monstrous jump from the 3DS.

 

[AntMurda]

4GB is fine for a tablet. This is a monstrous jump from the 3DS.

Yeah yeah. Dude you don't need specs to understand it's powerful for a handheld. But some of us want to make sure it looks good on the tv and gets third party ports.

 

[Aostia]

4GB is fine for a tablet. This is a monstrous jump from the 3DS.

Absolutely
But also from the Vita
It should even be better than wiiu

 

[Skittzo0413]

When was this said?

The dock part was from the Eurogamer 720p screen thread, he hinted at a mic and camera in the Nintendo Switch presentation thread, I think in response to a SMD post. I'll see if I can find them.

Here:

What makes you think it won't have a mic or camera?

Directed at trev.

Just curious, if it doesn't have a camera how could it read QR codes? Is there any other way?

And yea, Switch has a mic.

About 1080p when docked:

Yes it will. Capable of it anyway.

It's not gonna do anything omg amazing but the machine is capable of native 1080p on the big screen when docked.

I guess this doesn't necessarily suggest upclocking when docked, but that was the context in that thread when he posted. It could just be about how the hardware is capable of rendering at 1080p even though the screen is 720p. Which should be obvious to anyone anyway.

 

[Rodin]

No, it'll be much cheaper than that.

Yeah because RAM is one of the main factors in how expensive a phone is.

4GB is fine for a tablet. This is a monstrous jump from the 3DS.

The problem is that this "tablet" is supposed to play complex games such as Zelda and Xenoblade. These games benefit from having a huge amount of RAM more than phones.