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[Eolz]

Okay but that was always going to be the case. It's kind of hard to circumvent the laws of thermodynamics.

Oh, you are expecting no limitation at all between a portable device and a full home console hardware? Hahahahahahhahah


I'm start to thinking this is NOT about Nintendo fans pushing the goalpole, but some people putting it unreasonably far away to begin with.

I never said I didn't expect limitations, that woukd be stupid, just that more than 4GB was possible, and thus, wouldn't have been as bad for some third parties.

I completely agree that expecting an handheld to be as powerful as an X1 is ridiculous, but comparing it only to the WiiU is just as much moving goalposts.
Loweredexpectations.jpg

 

[oti]

Gloom time!

You want this to be true. This sounds great.

 

[Hermii]

Gloom time!

Parker and 1 tflop sounds good at least.

Here's even more gloom for you: That 1 TFLOP figure is almost surely fp16. Typical fp32 performance will likely be half that.

Still, gr eat for a handheld and over 2x Wii U. Wii U isn't that great a baseline, though. Certainly worse than Gamecube was for its time.

Or maybe not..

Whatever I'm still getting third party games for PS4 it looks like.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Gloom time!

Here's even more gloom for you: That 1 TFLOP figure is almost surely fp16. Typical fp32 performance will likely be half that.

Still, great for a handheld and over 2x Wii U. Wii U isn't that great a baseline, though. Certainly worse than Gamecube was for its time.

 

[Zedark]

So are these specs on par with Xbox one to allow ports? Also 32 Gigs is fine. If it can take SD cards. Also if the games are on carts who needs so much storage? Unless you go digitally only on switch which based on Nintendos history with digital games I would strongly recommend against.

I will link you to a post I wrote some days ago. This lists all theoretical possibilities for comparison between the Switch and the Xbox One. Take a look at it and keep your pot of salt ready, because most of it is speculation based entirely on the GPU aspect (as it mentions in the post). There is potential to reach near-Xbox One levels of power, but it is extremely unlikely (and out of the question in handheld mode, if that wasn't clear already). Also with 4 GB RAM, ports of equal fidelity as Xbox One will probably be impossible anyway, which might indicate that we are looking at performance quite a bit below the Xbox One.

Seems a lot of people here prefer to buy digital rather than physical, so that's one reason why people complain about the storage space. The other is patches: if patches are several GBs and aren't stored to the cards, this 32 GB will fill in no time. If they can write the patches onto the cards, however, 32 GB will be more than enough for people who buy (or don't mind buying) physical games.

 

[Peterc]

Sometimes it's expensive and weak, like 3DS and Wii U.

Ok but this times they go wild with performance of this system. Far beyond what vita did at that time.

Even 300$ should be a good price. But maybe to create big sales they could for 250$ and thats very cheap for a system like this.

 

[Mokujin]

Why are you skeptical of 1Ghz docked clock speed? Even on 20nm X1 can run at 1Ghz in shield TV.

Not skeptical per se, but we only have a tweet and some clues that point to the "Dock mode" being there. I just need an official confirmation or solid leak.

The first and third are rumored, the latter more heavily. No one has any info on RAM subsystems, either there is none, it's compromising to share, or its not in these Dev2 kits.

Yep, I just wish for some extra leaks to confirm those ones.

 

[Donnie]

Not really surprising. Being capable of receiving downscaled versions of Western third party software doesn't necessarily mean they would be worthwhile financially from the publisher's perspective. Look at how the Xbox One isn't even a factor in most Japanese publisher's plans even though it nearly has the same hardware as the PS4.

I don't think the phrase "no problem" would be used to describe having to down scale games. If a developer has to spend time down scaling their assets and effects to get something working that would be considered a problem.

 

[FZZ]

Those architectures are the same, just the node size is different. 20nm is what X1 Maxwell was on, and its being phased out of factories. 16nm is what Pascal is on.

Yeah battery and efficiency should be better on the smaller node no?

Also YES really happy about Pascal

 

[Vena]

Yes, I just wish for some extra leaks to confirm those ones.

At the very least, subsystem info I suspect would be damning for anyone to leak. It's going to be a one of those inner-circle details, and may not even be uniform across dev kits to sniff out leaks.

And a few posts back it looks like more rumors are rising on 16nm.

 

[The Last One]

You want this to be true. This sounds great.

I really don't care, actually.

Using old tech never stopped Nintendo portable systems from being greatly supported.

And I'm quite happy with a TX1 ballpark hardware. And apparently I'm getting more than that, so that's a win-win in my book.

 

[Vic]

At the very least, subsystem info I suspect would be damning for anyone to leak. It's going to be a one of those inner-circle details, and may not even be uniform across dev kits to sniff out leaks.

And a few posts back it looks like more rumors are rising on 16nm.

Well, since this is a video game console, some type video RAM has to be in play for the final hardware. Every Nintendo console, including the NES and Gameboy had dedicated video RAM.

Edit: I was wrong. Seems like the N64 had a shared pool of RAM but my point still stands.

 

[MDave]

Yeah battery and efficiency should be better on the smaller node no?

Also YES really happy about Pascal

They have 2 options (or something in between) if they get the smaller node: keep performance the same and get 60% better battery power efficiency, or use the same power draw as the larger node but gain 40% more performance. If the battery life is 3 hours, I suspect Nintendo have gone with the latter option.

 

[Donnie]

Also with 4 GB RAM, ports of equal fidelity as Xbox One will probably be impossible anyway, which might indicate that we are looking at performance quite a bit below the Xbox One.

The RAM situation looks much closer when you consider the rumoured difference in OS sizes and the different media used though. For gaming 3.2GB for Switch vs 5.2GB for XBox One (a difference reminiscent to GameCube's 24MB vs PS2's 32MB). Meanwhile surely cartridge access speeds could help out with faster texture streaming/swapping.

Was still hoping for 4GB for games though, as I think that would than be plenty, while 3.2GB is still going to be a bit tight vs the other systems.

 

[Hermii]

The RAM situation looks much closer when you consider the rumoured difference in OS sizes and the different media used though.. RAM difference then becomes 3.2GB for Switch vs 5.2GB for XBox One. Meanwhile surely cartidge access speeds could help out with faster texture streaming/swapping.

Where does the 800mb os rumor come from?

 

[Gamer79]

Lets put it this way. Your modern top end cell phone will cost you between $500-$800. The specs if accurate dump all over any handheld device in existence. I expect $299 and would be all in on a bundle to include mario and zelda for $399.

 

[The Last One]

Here's even more gloom for you: That 1 TFLOP figure is almost surely fp16. Typical fp32 performance will likely be half that.

Still, great for a handheld and over 2x Wii U. Wii U isn't that great a baseline, though. Certainly worse than Gamecube was for its time.

Don't really get the point here.

I'm not expecting nothing of this to be true. And even though I think this system will sell greatly.

And...

"Certainly worse than Gamecube was for its time"

Lmao

You are just trying too hard.

 

[Rodin]

I really don't are, actually.

Using old tech never stopped Nintendo portable systems from being greatly supported.

And I quite happy with a TX1 ballpark hardware. And apparently I'm getting more than that, só that' a win-win in my book.

You're getting exactly that, TX1 has 1 tflop in half precision.

You were implying that a57s single thread performance is "shitty" because mobile developers passed on it. I was pointing out that the reasons they passed on it were unrelated to its performance - which is to all intents and purposes identical to a similarly clocked jaguar core, which seems to be fine for the other two games console hardware manufacturers.
That's not 'spin'.

No i was implying that the A57 is shitty and a newer CPU (A72) is being used because it's much better in every important area for a mobile SoC. I originally referred to Jaguar cores because i was thinking about that lcgeek post about the CPU being "noticeably better" than what PS4/X1 have. Which isn't the case at all with 4x A57, but like i said, it doesn't really matter with that weak ass GPU and laughable amount of RAM.

Still, A72 would've been better in terms of power consumption, heat and space taken, so targeting the same performances as the current A57 setup would've meant better battery life and lower temps at least. There's still no excuse for using older cores instead.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Don't really get the point here.

I'm not expecting nothing of this to be true. And even though I think this system will sell greatly.

And...

"Certainly worse than Gamecube was for its time"

Lmao

You are just trying too hard.

Really not trying at all, to be frank. Is it really controversial to say that for its time as a home console, Gamecube was more up to spec than Wii U? More capable of receiving third party ports?

 

[The Last One]

You're getting exactly that, TX1 has 1 tflop in half precision.

Still winning lol

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Where does the 800mb os rumor come from?

Someone's ass

Them RAM comparison gymnastics are getting a little pathetic

 

[ultrazilla]

I'm still going with Nintendo having some really neat "tricks and treats"(see what I did there?) that they are keeping secret right now.

I think it's within the realm of possibility that we'll eventually get options for the touchscreen size, the system will be backwards compatible with 3DS/New 3DS cartridges(obviously in 2D mode) and docks that will eventually be "upgradeable" with added hardware/software that will make the system more powerful. So instead of having to buy an entire new system like the PS4 Pro or Xbox One S or Xbox Scorpio, Nintendo will release docks with upgraded tech to make the system perform even better(in docked mode at least).

With Nintendo apparently "interested" in VR tech(I've seen it mentioned a few times in relation to Switch), IMO there's got to be a way for Nintendo to "bump up the specs" should they go the VR route or to stay competitive with Sony or MS.

 

[rekameohs]

Really not trying at all, to be frank. Is it really controversial to say that for its time as a home console, Gamecube was more up to spec than Wii U? More capable of receiving third party ports?

The biggest knock on the GameCube was the miniDVD drive

 

[ElTorro]

http://gonintendo.com/stories/267660-rumor-japanese-journalist-details-switch-s-nvidia-architecture

Does this journalist have sources or is he just conjecturing? I'd be very cautious... These discussions always try to bargain for specs at the upper end of what is even technically possible by silently promoting telephone game results to leaks and conjecture to fact. And when the device actually releases we usually get the specs from the bottom end.

Parker, for instance, comes with a stuff that nobody needs in a handheld, like ISO 26262 (an automotive security standard) compliance through hardware security features or automotive-specific IO features. It is unlikely that Nvidia would take Parker's configuration of components for a handheld and call it Parker. Just because of that I'd take any rumor that specifically calls the chip in the Switch "Parker" with a huge grain of salt.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Can't Nintendo have 4GB LPDDR4 for games and a single 1GB ram for the OS? Or would that complicate the motherboard setup and make it costlier?

It increases the costs, but it can be done. Look at PS4 Pro: 8 GB of GDDR5 + 1 GB of maybe DDR4 or LPDDR4 for suspended non game apps + 256 MB for the ARM secondary chip assisting with background operation, local and network I/O and video recording and sharing amongst other things.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The biggest knock on the GameCube was the miniDVD drive

DVD support for uses and full DVD size for third party games would have been interesting .

 

[Zedark]

The RAM situation looks much closer when you consider the rumoured difference in OS sizes and the different media used though. For gaming 3.2GB for Switch vs 5.2GB for XBox One (a difference reminiscent to GameCube's 24MB vs PS2's 32MB). Meanwhile surely cartridge access speeds could help out with faster texture streaming/swapping.

Was still hoping for 4GB for games though, as I think that would than be plenty, while 3.2GB is still going to be a bit tight vs the other systems.

Interesting about GC vs. PS2. Knowing this, I would personally doubt RAM will be a major problem, and if that Japanese journo's rumour is true, then this could definitely be a formidable system.

 

[The Last One]

Really not trying at all, to be frank. Is it really controversial to say that for its time as a home console, Gamecube was more up to spec than Wii U? More capable of receiving third party ports?

So?

If this system end up selling 70 million units, your (very random) comparison will serve to no one's argument, except your quite retorical one.

In other words: what you are saying makes no sense.

Gaffers (and gamers, in general) has a very unfortunate tendency to see the industry/market through a reductionist glass.

The assumptions you guys are making about third party support and general selling potential is way too simplistic. If Nintendo sends the right message, to the right people, and in a right way, the system will sell. And if it sells, the support will come, regardless the tech inside (reasonably speaking).

And so far, Nintendo is doing their homework.

 

[lwilliams3]

Where does the 800mb os rumor come from?

The poster, Vern. He claims to be in-the-know, it he does appear to have some legitacy since the mods hasn't crucified him after all of this time.

 

[Herb Alpert]

1 Tflop for a handheld is pretty huge, isn't it?

 

[PdotMichael]

The RAM situation looks much closer when you consider the rumoured difference in OS sizes and the different media used though. For gaming 3.2GB for Switch vs 5.2GB for XBox One (a difference reminiscent to GameCube's 24MB vs PS2's 32MB). Meanwhile surely cartridge access speeds could help out with faster texture streaming/swapping.

Was still hoping for 4GB for games though, as I think that would than be plenty, while 3.2GB is still going to be a bit tight vs the other systems.

The access speed of the flash cards will do nothing in that regard.

 

[KingSnake]

Nintendo of America has done some serious damage here, has it not.

I think that their insistence about calling Switch a home console might bite them in the ass at some point. They could have positioned it as such in a more subtle way later in the ads.

 

[Donnie]

Where does the 800mb os rumor come from?

From the same verified insider who people believe about these dev kit specs being "close to what we should expect".

Someone's ass

Them RAM comparison gymnastics are getting a little pathetic

From a verified insider, and if you think comparing memory available to games is "gymnastics" in comparison to comparing total RAM then you've only ever watched really boring gymnastics in the past, like maybe someone just standing still on a pommel horse.

 

[LordRaptor]

I originally referred to Jaguar cores because i was thinking about that lcgeek post about the CPU being "noticeably better" than what PS4/X1 have. Which isn't the case at all with 4x A57,

But a 2.0Ghz core is significantly better than a 1.6Ghz core in single threaded performance.
That's why I gave you the analogy of where multicores win, and where more powerful single cores win.

 

[Astral Dog]

Really not trying at all, to be frank. Is it really controversial to say that for its time as a home console, Gamecube was more up to spec than Wii U? More capable of receiving third party ports?

We could argue 3x Wii U is still quite impressive for a handheld, or that technical ambitions are not so held back by the hardware anymore,but also budget, at least for Nintendo,

regardless of the year

 

[Skittzo0413]

It is a very different situation than the Wii U really. Wii U was hampered by significant hardware issues that literally made it impossible for Publishers like EA to bring their products over.

Switch can handle basically everything now engine wise. Now it will be up to business decisions as to what happens of course but that is a step up from impossibility due to hardware. So while the situation may not markedly improve there is bound to be some improvement

I was referring to Wii U not getting PS3/360 ports, although I guess it could be true that it wasn't able to run some of those engines too.

Someone's ass

Them RAM comparison gymnastics are getting a little pathetic

vern, who has apparently been vetted by mods, claimed so:

Vern claimed 3.2 for games.

So?

If this system end up selling 70 million units, your (very random) comparison will serve to no one's argument, except your quite retorical one.

In other words: what you are saying makes no sense.

Gaffers (and gamers, in general) has a very unfortunate tendency to see the industry/market through a reductionist glass.

The assumptions you guys are making about third party support and general selling potential is way too simplistic. If Nintendo sends the right message, to the right people, and in a right way, the system will sell. And if it sells, the support will come, regardless the tech inside (reasonably speaking).

And so far, Nintendo is doing their homework.

I'm not sure if you're directing your argument at the right poster. He's just saying that the Gamecube was a more cutting edge console for its time than the Wii U was, which everyone should agree with. And that the Switch is looking mightily impressive for what it is, being a portable console >2x Wii U in power.

 

[Donnie]

The access speed of the flash cards will do nothing in that regard.

Are you sure?, its something outside of my wheel house which is why I didn't assert it too strongly (meant to have a question mark at the end of that original sentence). Does seem though that faster access speeds on the media storing the game should logically make it easier to quickly swap assets in and out of RAM? Am I underestimating the access speed of XBox One's storage media?

 

[Schnozberry]

Here's even more gloom for you: That 1 TFLOP figure is almost surely fp16. Typical fp32 performance will likely be half that.

Still, great for a handheld and over 2x Wii U. Wii U isn't that great a baseline, though. Certainly worse than Gamecube was for its time.

No matter how you slice it, this is a pretty good set of hardware choices for Nintendo. They aren't going to replace anyone's smartphone, and they aren't going to release an also ran console to supplant people's PS4 and XB1. They are trying to merge their audiences and I think they have an SOC that will surpass the Wii U comfortably and be a revelation to their portable audience.

 

[Milly Osworth]

1 Tflop for a handheld is pretty huge, isn't it?

I have a feeling GAF is in overhype mode.

 

[Fourth Storm]

So?

If this system end up selling 70 million units, your (very random) comparison will serve to no one's argument, except your quite retorical one.

In other words: what you are saying makes no sense.

Gaffers (and gamers, in general) has a very unfortunate tendency to see the industry/market through a reductionist glass.

The assumptions you guys are making about third party support and general selling potential is way too simplistic. If Nintendo sends the right message, to the right people, and in a right way, the system will sell. And if it sells, the support will come, regardless the tech inside (reasonably speaking).

And so far, Nintendo is doing their homework.

You're in a thread dedicated to the tech specs. Any of the long time posters here can tell you that is an interest of mine. I am not discussing sales nor trying to defend or attack Nintendo as a company. Some folks are interested in knowing what kind of third party ports we can expect on Switch, so I am attempting to contribute to that line of discussion by setting some more realistic expectations. It is looking more and more doubtful that 3rd party games will be running in 720p on Switch, if that was ever expected in the first place.

 

[K.Jack]

People are focused on the 32GB of internal storage, but what I'm concerned about, is how much of the 4GB will be usable for games.

Why do people expect 3rd party games to be possible, with such a small pool of RAM?

 

[Donnie]

People are focused on the 32GB of internal storage, but what I'm concerned about, is how much of the 4GB will be usable for games.

Why do people expect 3rd party games to be possible, with such a small pool of RAM?

Its already been talked about above.

Rumoured to have 3.2GB available for games vs the 5.3GB XBox One has available. Which is certainly not a difference that would make 3rd party games impossible, not even close.

 

[Herb Alpert]

I have a feeling GAF is in overhype mode.

OK that's what I was thinking

 

[The Last One]

I'm not sure if you're directing your argument at the right poster. He's just saying that the Gamecube was a more cutting edge console for its time than the Wii U was, which everyone should agree with. And that the Switch is looking mightily impressive for what it is, being a portable console >2x Wii U in power.

But bringing this comparison up fills no meaningful hole into this conversation.

He thinks the Game Cube was a way bigger technological step foward than Switch may end up being... So what?

Despite the fact of this being a controversial statement, it tells nothing about the discussion we are having.

 

[Aostia]

I have a feeling GAF is in overhype mode.

Overhype vs overreacting

Who will win?

 

[WhiteWaterM00se]

So what lesson did Nintendo learn? If it's underpowered and rely on nintendo first parties? Wouldn't that just been Wii u all over again?

Well you need third party in order to survive. We have a long history of this not working. Wii U, Neogeo, turbo graphix, Atari jaguar, Dreamcast.

But we will use Wii U as a more recent example. Once EA, Activision and ubi bailed out it was game over.

Assuming that Switch can not run big third party games like Battlefield 1, Destiny 2, and maybe even Infinite Warfare.

I assume Switch will get third party Japanese ports. Especially picking up 3ds, and Vita companies to make games. Do you think Nintendo will money hat third party games on Switch?

If it can't run COD ports, will Switch gets its own exclusive COD, like vita. But hopefully a more competent game and not just a cash grab. Will Nintendo money hat a NHL game, a Garden Warfare game, Mordor 2, etc.

 

[The Last One]

You're in a thread dedicated to the tech specs. Any of the long time posters here can tell you that is an interest of mine. I am not discussing sales nor trying to defend or attack Nintendo as a company. Some folks are interested in knowing what kind of third party ports we can expect on Switch, so I am attempting to contribute to that line of discussion by setting some more realistic expectations. It is looking more and more doubtful that 3rd party games will be running in 720p on Switch, if that was ever expected in the first place.

What stopped the thirds to bringing their games into a 240p screen resolution in a Pica200 GPU?

 

[Fourth Storm]

We could argue 3x Wii U is still quite impressive for a handheld, or that technical ambitions are not so held back by the hardware anymore,but also budget, at least for Nintendo,

regardless of the year

No matter how you slice it, this is a pretty good set of hardware choices for Nintendo. They aren't going to replace anyone's smartphone, and they aren't going to release an also ran console to supplant people's PS4 and XB1. They are trying to merge their audiences and I think they have an SOC that will surpass the Wii U comfortably and be a revelation to their portable audience.

I am happy about the very modern hardware Nintendo seems to have chosen. I am also quite happy with their choices of input. I'm just not so sure about how enthusiastically this will be accepted by western audiences as a home console

 

[Snakeyes]

Is it really necessary to quote Matt's post on every page?

 

[gtj1092]

It is a very different situation than the Wii U really. Wii U was hampered by significant hardware issues that literally made it impossible for Publishers like EA to bring their products over.

Switch can handle basically everything now engine wise. Now it will be up to business decisions as to what happens of course but that is a step up from impossibility due to hardware. So while the situation may not markedly improve there is bound to be some improvement

Impossible? Seem to recall need for speed being a goto game to prove Wii U could handle ports. Also how was EA still able to put these games on ps3/360 but it was "impossible" to put on Wii U and it's "modern architecture"?