No, having rewritable storage on the switch cards would drive prices up and make them very expensive. Nintendo wants them to be as cheap as possible for them and third parties. Other possibilities is to have 2 micro se card slots on Switch. 1 for games and 1 for patches. Doesn't make sense tbh
Nintendo Switch Dev Kit Stats Leaked? Cortex A57, 4GB RAM, 32GB Storage, Multi-Touch.
- Thread starter Robert at Zeboyd Games
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No, having rewritable storage on the switch cards would drive prices up and make them very expensive. Nintendo wants them to be as cheap as possible for them and third parties. Other possibilities is to have 2 micro se card slots on Switch. 1 for games and 1 for patches. Doesn't make sense tbh
Skittzo0413
Member
Interesting, though I'm much more interested in the hardware configuration rather than the API, simply because it's a lot easier to understand.
But it is good again to hear about how much an API can actually help squeeze more out of the hardware.
And many other, if not all big third party releases that require future patches, installs, etc.
It will be the Wii, Wii U, GameCube, etc all over again.
Third parties aren't going to gimp the actual console versions to somehow fit them within the Switches lowest common dominator guidelines.
Sigh.
Were you planning to go Switch only?
DrROBschiz
Member
yeah there is this weird disconnect going on
I mean I personally will be using the Switch more than any of my other systems (much like my Vita currently does) but I still have a PC and PS4
Considering GAF is full of core gamers i dont see why they care so much about Switch getting multiplats
Gotdatmoney
Member
It would be odd of they didnt offer HDD support for the dock.
But honestly you buy a big SD card and you should mostly be fine. The average consumer does not need 1TB of space. Enthusiasts do and they will either pay it or they already default to MS or Sont anyway
But honestly you buy a big SD card and you should mostly be fine. The average consumer does not need 1TB of space. Enthusiasts do and they will either pay it or they already default to MS or Sont anyway
Nah, but someone else might have wanted too.
I just wish Nintendo would modernize. It's exhausting watching them make the same mistakes over and over again.
The irony of them not being third party friendly is the inevitably of them becoming a third party company from it.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Is that a rhetorical question? In case it's not: via removable storage.
DrROBschiz
Member
I mean
The switch is essentially just a tablet. There really is no reason they can do all sorts of things with it and add features and options
They are just choosing not to for the time being?
For the portability factor. It would be nice to play Rocket League at my parent's house without having to drag home a laptop + ps4 controller + usb cable when I visit.
It's mainly about getting my multiplayer fix on the go. Single player stuff, I'll almost always opt instead to play on the more powerful console with better graphics (in my case the PS4). So I agree that single player ports to Switch are probably not that important for the core gamer.
On the other hand, I could imagine that exploring an open world on a long flight might be a nice way to pass the time. Switch may be the thing to get me to double dip on multiplats for the first time in my life. Vita kinda did it too... but Switch looks a lot more ergonomic and enjoyable to play with its kickstand and removable controllers.
DrROBschiz
Member
Duuuudddee
Well think about it. Its about the devs themselves right? Im sure the rocket league team would be more than happy to put that game on switch and make it happen
Holy shit that would be amazing.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Fine for docked, totally useless for undocked, I can't see a portable HDD being the answer, unless you expect the user to duct tape it to his Switch.
Interfectum
Member
You want them to toss a big SSD in the Switch and price themselves out of their target market? That seems like a much quicker way for Ninty to go third party.
I don't understand why people want them to get into an arms race with Sony and MS. It would almost assuredly end in disaster.
Fine for docked, totally useless for undocked, I can't see a portable HDD being the answer, unless you expect the user to duct tape it to his Switch.
Yeah NO, having a portable hdd is not a good solution if this would happen
Skittzo0413
Member
We have reports from very trustworthy insiders that technical reasons, specifically storage, will not be any issue when it comes to ports. File and patch sizes are never actually compressed these days because devs have no need to- if they want to compress a DOOM patch file from 30GB to 10GB it's really not all that difficult to do. I think audio files are the biggest culprit these days.
And if you're buying physical, there will be no installs. Game cards are faster than even PS4/XB1 HDDs and will have higher storage capacity than Blu-Rays before long, so going physical would solve any problems here.
Fine for docked, totally useless for undocked, I can't see a portable HDD being the answer, unless you expect the user to duct tape it to his Switch.
I was actually speculating that Nintendo could offer a Nintendo branded storage pack that straps to the Switch tablet in some way. Could be a possible solution.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
They are already in an arms race, they just either refuse to recognise that fact, or are incapable of recognising that fact.
It is not Nintendo that gets to choose whether they are in an arms race, it's the market and it's consumers, and the market and consumers will, regardless of Nintendo's wishes, compare their product to the competition.
That means ALL aspects, specs, library, even the aesthetics.
Interfectum
Member
And most are only looking at one aspect: specs
Switch is already going to set itself apart from the competition in both library and aesthetics. It doesn't have to match or best all aspects to compete in the marketplace.
Akhe
Member
DrROBschiz
Member
Can we start a "Put Rocket League on Switch" campaign?
That sounds like a good thing to do
That sounds like a good thing to do
Eolz
Member
Better wait after the event to see what is and what isn't coming there already...
If there's indeed interest, why wait? If it's not coming it's a message to the devs. If it's coming anyway, it's a message to the devs.
Hasn't the market already chose Nintendo to be their secondary console, if the "Nintendo" games are there, though? I mean, Nintendo went from the top of the world to "if I can afford it after I get a PS/Xbox One" status. The market dictated this, and it's the core audience that widely thinks like this.
Sony and Microsoft also do not acknowledge Nintendo when it comes to the race, but rather acknowledge their cultural impact. The media as well. So that would lead me to believe that Nintendo accomplished the niche status they were seemingly going for.
So to me, the market already decided that Nintendo is, in fact, a secondary option (core audience). So why not try and carve a new market instead of going into a battle they are going to lose 100 out of 100? Financially it doesn't make sense...people can argue that what they are doing now is worse, and both sides would have legit points. Unfortunately Nintendo is in a spot where they cannot win...and I think they know it more than anyone on these forums.
Gotdatmoney
Member
What level of internal storage do you want exactly?
Cuningas de Häme
Member
Nintendo is the handheld. Now it is THE handheld that can actually be used as a console when home.
Pretty good position to be, especially when it's getting more and bigger games than their console or handheld did last generation, even from 3rd parties.
MicroSony can have the armsrace, they have lots of additional ways to make money. Nintendo can't be stupid af with their consoles like the others.
Nintendo will prevail, they'll redefine the industry once again at some point. They did it with NES, with Wii, with handhelds... And almost never by being the mighty powerwielding Conan of the gaming world.
Pretty good position to be, especially when it's getting more and bigger games than their console or handheld did last generation, even from 3rd parties.
MicroSony can have the armsrace, they have lots of additional ways to make money. Nintendo can't be stupid af with their consoles like the others.
Nintendo will prevail, they'll redefine the industry once again at some point. They did it with NES, with Wii, with handhelds... And almost never by being the mighty powerwielding Conan of the gaming world.
Skittzo0413
Member
Speculation time:
The recent FCC filing indicates the Switch has a 39W AC adaptor. I have a few questions about this info. First off, does this mean that 39W will be supplied to it when connected to power (in or out of the dock)? Or does this mean that up to 39W will be supplied?
Second, to compare, the Shield TV had a peak power draw of ~20W. This includes the HDD, which I think is somewhere around 6W if I'm not mistaken. The Switch will have a battery that needs charging, but otherwise the clock rates we've been given say it should draw around 4-5W in portable mode and probably close to 10-12W in docked mode, if we're going with the assumption that it's a straight TX1. How much power is generally needed to charge a battery? Would that account for the remaining 27-29W? That seems far too high to me.
There could be some power reserved for powering peripherals, like the Gamecube adaptor or (if LKD is incorrect) an external HDD. How much power are we generally talking about there? No more than 6-7W, right?
So basically, I think we should be able to get a very rough estimate of how much power the Switch will consume in docked mode at the very least. And it seems to be higher than what we'd expect with a TX1 at the given specs. Which, firstly tells us that it's likely not 16nm- as that would require less power- and secondly tells us that there's likely more on that SoC than what we see on a standard TX1, especially a Jetson TX1. So this would likely suggest either more SMs, more CPU cores, more RAM modules... or some combination. Anyone have any estimates here?
The recent FCC filing indicates the Switch has a 39W AC adaptor. I have a few questions about this info. First off, does this mean that 39W will be supplied to it when connected to power (in or out of the dock)? Or does this mean that up to 39W will be supplied?
Second, to compare, the Shield TV had a peak power draw of ~20W. This includes the HDD, which I think is somewhere around 6W if I'm not mistaken. The Switch will have a battery that needs charging, but otherwise the clock rates we've been given say it should draw around 4-5W in portable mode and probably close to 10-12W in docked mode, if we're going with the assumption that it's a straight TX1. How much power is generally needed to charge a battery? Would that account for the remaining 27-29W? That seems far too high to me.
There could be some power reserved for powering peripherals, like the Gamecube adaptor or (if LKD is incorrect) an external HDD. How much power are we generally talking about there? No more than 6-7W, right?
So basically, I think we should be able to get a very rough estimate of how much power the Switch will consume in docked mode at the very least. And it seems to be higher than what we'd expect with a TX1 at the given specs. Which, firstly tells us that it's likely not 16nm- as that would require less power- and secondly tells us that there's likely more on that SoC than what we see on a standard TX1, especially a Jetson TX1. So this would likely suggest either more SMs, more CPU cores, more RAM modules... or some combination. Anyone have any estimates here?
Wii U's power brick is rated 50w, from memory. The system itself only uses about 35w max. I really wouldn't read too deeply into it.
My gut tells me its coming anyway. Its UE4 right? It would be such a great fit for the platform. I seen plenty of interest for it around the internet, the developers must have seen it too.If there's indeed interest, why wait? If it's not coming it's a message to the devs. If it's coming anyway, it's a message to the devs.
Skittzo0413
Member
The Wii U did also power some peripherals like HDDs, so that would seem to suggest it reserved 15W for those peripherals. Maybe we can assume the Switch would do the same?
Im pretty sure 34 watts was under max load and all usb ports active.
Skittzo0413
Member
Do you have a source for that? I thought the console itself was supposed to run at around 32-35W max, but I didn't know that was accounting for the USB power transferred.
If true, nevermind!
Potentially. USB peripherals will likely be powered directly by the dock. Same goes for any chips or fans in the dock. Also remember that the Switch needs to be able to recharge it's batteries whilst simultaneously running at full performance. So all in all, only a fraction of the available power will actually go to processing hardware. I'd wager 20W tops (and potentially a lot less).
Never, ever take input power ratings on AC adaptors at face value. They do not tell you what you think they tell you. They are anywhere between 50% and 3 times higher than the actual peak power consumption (as measured at the wall).
They include reactive power which is important for capacity planning in house installations, power strip daisy chains etc. But that's not what the adaptor "uses".
Nearest available example: standard 65W laptop charger. Rated 180W. What do we do with the 180W figure? We ignore it.
They include reactive power which is important for capacity planning in house installations, power strip daisy chains etc. But that's not what the adaptor "uses".
Nearest available example: standard 65W laptop charger. Rated 180W. What do we do with the 180W figure? We ignore it.
I think storage is valued more on portable devices than home consoles hence phone companies being able to charge $100+ for more storage.
I want as many games as possible on my memory card at a time so that I have many options to play while traveling.
Wanting more storage is not an absurd desire for a portable device. People don't want to fiddle with tiny cards on a train/bus/car if they don't have to.
I want as many games as possible on my memory card at a time so that I have many options to play while traveling.
Wanting more storage is not an absurd desire for a portable device. People don't want to fiddle with tiny cards on a train/bus/car if they don't have to.
Let's wait for the January presentation: then we will see your truths and see your lies. But I am scared GAF won't be able to control it anymore.
I need help
Skittzo0413
Member
Yeah I noted the battery charging power needed, but I have no idea how to guess how much power that realistically is.
That's probably good advice, yeah. But it's not even worth comparing to similar devices?
We ended up going down a dark and scary rabbit hole in the WUST with these discussions. But since I'm a glutton for punishment, I'll put my $0.02 in.
IIRC, iPad chargers are rated at 12 watts. Obviously some of that is used to power the device when it's plugged in, so I'm going to pull a number out of my butt and go with 4w is used to charge the battery. The iPad Air 2 has a battery that is just a little over 7000 mAh, and I seriously doubt the one in the switch is nearly that size. So pulling more numbers out of my butt, I can say with 12% certainty that the switch pulls 3w to charge the battery.
EDIT: The 12w figure is what the charger is rated at, so obviously it won't be pulling the full 12 watts. I had to lower the numbers I pulled from my butt because I had forgotten to account for that. Thanks Rolf.
Incorrect.
Wii U AC Adapter:
15V*5A = 75W
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-wii-u-is-the-green-console
This is after a quick glance, I haven't checked the finer details.
But... The real question is: can you charge it with a potato?
Very very slowly. But only if that potato has USB-C.
I doubt docked mode would even use 10w at the reported clocks if its just a X1. I mean if you just take the CPU as an example.
4x A57 20nm CPU at 2Ghz (Shield TV) = 6.7w at full load*
4x A57 20nm CPU at 1Ghz (Switch apparently) = 1.7w at full load*
*That number includes things like RAM drawing power, but not GPU.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
A 39 watt supply seems about right to me for the alleged specs.
Ideally half of that power would be for charging whilst in use, you don't want the Switch to drain battery too quickly whilst playing even when powered, like many modern devices though you'll see some drain whilst plugged in, but not too much.
Assuming they use a typical (for late 2016) 5V/2.4A for charging, that's 12w (5 * 2.4) of the 39w accounted for.
(Edit: Specs say 5V / 2.6A so 13w, not 12w)
So:
26w: SoC & system, periperhals etc.
13w: Charging
If anything, I'd say the power supply specs confirm the 2SM / 256 Core count.
Ideally half of that power would be for charging whilst in use, you don't want the Switch to drain battery too quickly whilst playing even when powered, like many modern devices though you'll see some drain whilst plugged in, but not too much.
Assuming they use a typical (for late 2016) 5V/2.4A for charging, that's 12w (5 * 2.4) of the 39w accounted for.
(Edit: Specs say 5V / 2.6A so 13w, not 12w)
So:
26w: SoC & system, periperhals etc.
13w: Charging
If anything, I'd say the power supply specs confirm the 2SM / 256 Core count.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Given the device being clocked way lower than anybor us originally expected and also being Maxwell I dont see much point in readjusting expectatioms to more than 2 SM honestly. I dont think with the specs we have now at 2 SM there are going to be huge porting challenges honestly.
Skittzo0413
Member
Well as Donnie says above the SoC shouldn't be getting anywhere near that number with 2SM and 4 CPU cores at the leaked clock rates. The screen and controls will be drawing power but I'm not sure what numbers to put on those.
Anyway, as others have said above this is apparently not a good way to figure out the power draw of processing components, so I withdraw the speculation.
That's something I missed, I assumed 13W which is the lowest range for the AC Adapter was for the Switch docked in portable mode without needing to charge seeing as we have clock settings from the DF article for developers that don't want to upclock GPU or RAM.
So anyway, I assume the above isn't the case because I had forgotten that the dock can still double as a charging station when the Switch is turned off.
The thing is, The Switch is not only the main body but the Joy-Cons as well since those have batteries.
I'm thinking a split is more likely to occur then, that 13W is probably around 8W for the Switch main body while 5W to cover the Joy-Cons since those shouldn't need more than say 2.5W each which is equivalent to the Wii U Pro Controller.
NightwingRebirth
Member
But wasn't the point of rewritable cartridges to allow for things like patches, DLC, and even save files to be saved on to the game cartridge itself? I'm asking because I wouldn't know, but I was a little excited about rewritable cartridges for the Switch.
The only issue in terms of storage should really just be the size of the cartridge. I mean, if Nintendo could start using 64GB ones, there would be no problems, but those would probably be too expensive for them, maybe?
I don't see why a lower clock speed would suggest 2SM, I mean it might be, but clock speed doesn't suggest that at all. Also being Maxwell based was obvious, its development will have started when Maxwell was the new top Tegra GPU.
Also the screen won't draw any power when docked.
Skittzo0413
Member
I'm going by the maximum potential power needed. When you have it charging while undocked it will need to power the screen, and could potentially run at the docked clock rates. We don't really know enough at this point.
Also LKD suggested that the top of the screen would have the IR emitters when docked, so it would need a small amount of power at least.
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