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[RootCause]

They can code to the metal now using Vulkan since Tegra supports Vulkan. I wish Carmack was still at ID software .. he would have made it a point of focus to put doom 2016 on the Switch lol.

Hopefully they'll start porting all of the android games, especially those that are shield enhanced. Could have a lovely list of tittles by launch.

 

[th3sicknness]

Hopefully they'll start porting all of the android games, especially those that are shield enhanced. Could have a lovely list of tittles by launch.

Android supports vulkan as well and should be using it moving forward so that might be a factor as well in easy porting.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

I hope you can somehow have DS and 3DS VC on this .

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Both the Xbox One and PS4 are powered by tablet CPUs. Are they not consoles?

You said the CPU, but forgot to mention the GPU I guess.

 

[lenovox1]

You said the CPU, but forgot to mention the GPU I guess.

We straight up don't know what the hell is in this thing.

 

[Aceshighhhh]

To me the fact that the dock (seemingly) provides no additional power and all these games can run entirely on the device, portably, makes it a handheld. The dock and TV hookup do not make it a home console since that's not it's dedicated function.

But as someone above said the fact people are seeing it as what they want may actually be a sign that this was smart

Yeah it's definitely just a handheld if that is the case.

A bit disappointing =/

 

[spons]

Android supports vulkan as well and should be using it moving forward so that might be a factor as well in easy porting.

No developer can rely on Vulkan support on Android for years to come with a market as fragmented as this.

 

[Donnie]

Realistically we are probably looking at a range of 500-800gflop GPU. Tegra X1 in default configuration would put it at around 512gflop. A default configuration pascal tegra would put it around 756gflops.

Modifications are to be expected but we cannot say what Nintendo would add or remove.

Apples to Apples specs I agree. Though comparing performance it has to be mentioned thats a double precision comparison. Tegra can make use of single precision quite extensively if I remember correctly which would improve performance vs those two significantly.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

We straight up don't know what the hell is in this thing.

We know is Tegra based which is a mobile chip, what more do you need to know?

PS4 and Xbone, uses GDDR5 and mid 2013 Dekstop GPU, you can't find that on a mobile device these days.

Switch is designed with low power consumption tech, similar of what you find on other mobile devices. Is a great portable device, but a portable device first and foremost, why is that not enough?

 

[sir_bumble_bee]

Yeah it's definitely just a handheld if that is the case.

A bit disappointing =/

Idk about you, but a handheld that could potentially rival a home console in terms of graphic fidelity and provides home console-like experiences is far from disappointing imo

 

[Donnie]

To me the fact that the dock (seemingly) provides no additional power and all these games can run entirely on the device, portably, makes it a handheld. The dock and TV hookup do not make it a home console since that's not it's dedicated function.

But as someone above said the fact people are seeing it as what they want may actually be a sign that this was smart

If it just seems like a fact its not a fact to be honest.

Also even if the dock itself doesn't have extra hardware it could easily provide extra wattage to increase clock speeds. Nobody knows at this point how it works.

 

[th3sicknness]

I think we all have to be at peace with this thing not being more powerful than an x1 or as powerful as a PS4.

One thing we can count on is that it will perform better than the Wii U. We need to take into account that every Nintendo console since the gamecube has been using the same Power PC variant with improvements here and there. We finally got something that is more modern.

 

[Donnie]

We know is Tegra based which is a mobile chip, what more do you need to know?

PS4 and Xbone, uses GDDR5 and mid 2013 Dekstop GPU, you can't find that on a mobile device these days.

Switch is designed with low power consumption tech, similar of what you find on other mobile devices. Is a great portable device, but a portable device first and foremost, why is that not enough?

A piece of silicon can be designed to be low power but also scale to higher performance, in fact that's increasingly the way things are headed. Also no PS4 AND Xbone don't use GDDR5..

 

[Zil33184]

Idk about you, but a handheld that could potentially rival a home console in terms of graphic fidelity and provides home console-like experiences is far from disappointing imo

Not sure I agree with rival, but that's up to your personal interpretation. I think the hardware is better than anything Nintendo have done for the last decade and merging their portable and console segments was a smart move, easily worth the trade off in power.

 

[Skittzo0413]

I think we all have to be at peace with this thing not being more powerful than an x1 or as powerful as a PS4.

One thing we can count on is that it will perform better than the Wii U. We need to take into account that every Nintendo console since the gamecube has been using the same Power PC variant with improvements here and there. We finally got something that is more modern.

We don't know that at all though. It's likely, yes, but people here acting like a brand new mobile chip can't possibly compete with what's in 3 year old consoles are frankly being ignorant.

Nintendo likely won't want this to be too expensive which limits the type of chip they can order, but a Tegra which outperforms an XB1 can certainly be made. Even one that outperforms a PS4 can be made. This one is just not that likely to do so based on the info we have now.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

We knew it. I highly suspected it as early as April after monitoring social media activities of many Nintendo engineers.

That's some FBI-level investigative skills right there.

 

[Schnozberry]

We don't know that at all though. It's likely, yes, but people here acting like a brand new mobile chip can't possibly compete with what's in 3 year old consoles are frankly being ignorant.

Nintendo likely won't want this to be too expensive which limits the type of chip they can order, but a Tegra which outperforms an XB1 can certainly be made. Even one that outperforms a PS4 can be made. This one is just not that likely to do so based on the info we have now.

There is very little to suggest this would be competing for power with the Xbox One or PS4. It just needs to be powerful enough to get ports, and drive the installed base, which I think it's setup to do nicely.

With Nvidia working closely with Nintendo optimizing the libraries and OS, and the support for Vulkan, it should be a good fit for games that have engines that scale well.

 

[Mr. MondayNight]

Why do we have to have me too ports.

Here's an idea how about some original and new i.p being made?

Honestly I'm fine without watchdogs, assasins creed, fifa, call of duty, battlefield, need for speed etc

You are me and a lot of people like me aren't, I'm a Nintendo fan always have been and I think this should have been a handheld with a more powerful console in the pipeline this as it stands doesn't appeal to me unless it's SUPER cheap like $199-$250 cheap.

 

[Skittzo0413]

There is very little to suggest this would be competing for power with the Xbox One or PS4. It just needs to be powerful enough to get ports, and drive the installed base, which I think it's setup to do nicely.

With Nvidia working closely with Nintendo optimizing he the libraries and OS, and the support for Vulkan, it should be a good fit for games that have engines that scale well.

Yup I agree with this. It shouldn't be hard to run most multiplats even though it's unlikely to surpass XB1 in raw power. Now, whether those ports are made is a completely different story, but power shouldn't be much of am issue.

 

[forknknife]

Why do you guys think the switch will be much more powerful than even the Wii U? Zelda liked the same as the Wii U version, mario kart the same as mario kart 8, 3d mario actually worse that the Wii U mario, Skyrim was a ps3/360 era game....

I don't know, i think the switch is going to basically be a portable wii u with more power devoted to making it possible for the tablet to run cooler and have a long battery life, nothing else.

The one thing that is interesting is the big vent on top of the tablet which makes me think that the dock will probably let the switch run faster than in portable mode so that it can upscale games to 1080 and, hopefully, better frame rates.

So, yeah, i would not expect any sort of major graphical jump from the Wii U. But that's OK really, i think wii u level games on a handheld are pretty good anyway.

 

[pr0cs]

but a Tegra which outperforms an XB1 can certainly be made. Even one that outperforms a PS4 can be made. This one is just not that likely to do so based on the info we have now.

Especially if they envision the device to be portable.
It's just such a bizarre choice, a console that is underpowered compared to other home units but pretty large making its portable notion a bit of a stretch

 

[Aceshighhhh]

Idk about you, but a handheld that could potentially rival a home console in terms of graphic fidelity and provides home console-like experiences is far from disappointing imo

What i meant is disappointing is the (lack of) potential actual home-console performance.

It's definitely not underpowered considering the mobility, it'd just be nice to see those games in native 1080p and current-gen image quality.

But if the price is fair, I won't complain.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Honestly, I think having weaker, but still adequate power is a plus. That makes this system a fit for mid-tier and portable developers who don't have a massive budget to do their thing and remain competitive with the system's other offerings. Basically, 3DS games with an extra coat of paint.

That's way more interesting to me than chasing the highest-end hardware possible and faltering against PCs.

 

[Fox_Mulder]

So, is it more powerful than the wii u? How much?

 

[Skittzo0413]

Why do you guys think the switch will be much more powerful than even the Wii U? Zelda liked the same as the Wii U version, mario kart the same as mario kart 8, 3d mario actually worse that the Wii U mario, Skyrim was a ps3/360 era game....

I don't know, i think the switch is going to basically be a portable wii u with more power devoted to making it possible for the tablet to run cooler and have a long battery life, nothing else.

The one thing that is interesting is the big vent on top of the tablet which makes me think that the dock will probably let the switch run faster than in portable mode so that it can upscale games to 1080 and, hopefully, better frame rates.

So, yeah, i would not expect any sort of major graphical jump from the Wii U. But that's OK really, i think wii u level games on a handheld are pretty good anyway.

The games shown were almost definitely not running on the hardware shown. Rather they were likely edited in. You can see this from Bethesda's statement that Skyrim isn't even officially confirmed.

So we'll see games running on the actual hardware later and then we can judge.

Although for the record I thought the Mario footage looked pretty superior to Wii U Mario games but it was not the clearest footage.

 

[BuggyMike]

Laura is saying that she's heard that there is some kind of extra processing in the dock.

https://twitter.com/LaurakBuzz/status/789131903622406144

Could simply be underclocking the system in handheld mode and fully clocking it in dock mode. Thought this would make the most sense if they wanted to deliver both a good handheld and console experience.

 

[forknknife]

The games shown were almost definitely not running on the hardware shown. Rather they were likely edited in. You can see this from Bethesda's statement that Skyrim isn't even officially confirmed.

So we'll see games running on the actual hardware later and then we can judge.

Although for the record I thought the Mario footage looked pretty superior to Wii U Mario games but it was not the clearest footage.

That might be true for Skyrim but not for the other games, why would that footage not be from switch hardware? This console is being released in March so production of these games must be very far along. I think what we saw its what we will get and it's not a step above wii u at all.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Unless your response is Japan, how am I wrong?

The DS sold over 57 million units in NA and the 3DS sold nearly 20 million. This is not my definition of niche.

 

[rockyt]

The games shown were almost definitely not running on the hardware shown. Rather they were likely edited in. You can see this from Bethesda's statement that Skyrim isn't even officially confirmed.

So we'll see games running on the actual hardware later and then we can judge.

Although for the record I thought the Mario footage looked pretty superior to Wii U Mario games but it was not the clearest footage.

NOPE Skyrim looks to be running on the NX version The PR statement is basically saying they're not
ready to officially a announce it yet. They want people to focus on the Xbox and ps4 remake version atm.

People shouldn't read to much into the PR statement. It's a pretty straightforward phrase.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

A piece of silicon can be designed to be low power but also scale to higher performance, in fact that's increasingly the way things are headed. Also no PS4 AND Xbone don't use GDDR5..

There's also heat issues, a device designed to draw 10w is not going to draw 200w all of sudden.

And not, even if this is the way things are headed, that dosn't make Switch a console, instead of a mobile product.

 

[Skittzo0413]

That might be true for Skyrim but not for the other games, why would that footage not be from switch hardware? This console is being released in March so production of these games must be very far along. I think what we saw its what we will get and it's not a step above wii u at all.

It's possible that they filmed the majority of the reveal a long time ago, potentially even before E3 this year, in which case the hardware likely wouldn't be ready yet. That's completely my speculation though.

But I've seen quite a few posters say that the game footage was not run on the hardware shown and added in in editing. I don't know for sure but people are saying that.

If it's a Pascal Tegra chip as rumored then it will be about 3x more powerful than the Wii U at a minimum.

Edit: see Vuze's post below. The point is we don't know what hardware all that footage is running on.

 

[udivision]

Especially if they envision the device to be portable.
It's just such a bizarre choice, a console that is underpowered compared to other home units but pretty large making its portable notion a bit of a stretch

Well, a hybrid doesn't mean you do everything better.
It means you make a lot of compromises.

But I've seen quite a few posters say that the game footage was not run on the hardware shown and added in in editing. I don't know for sure but people are saying that.

You don't film screens. You simulate them.
Filming screens looks really, really bad.

 

[Vuze]

It's possible that they filmed the majority of the reveal a long time ago, potentially even before E3 this year, in which case the hardware likely wouldn't be ready yet. That's completely my speculation though.

But I've seen quite a few posters say that the game footage was not run on the hardware shown and added in in editing. I don't know for sure but people are saying that.

Of course it was added in editing, like with any commercial / promo of that kind you see. Otherwise you would have horrible color reproduction, Moire etc on the screen content.

As for the real question whether or not we saw real world performance: who knows.

 

[rockyt]

With this base on a Nvidia GPU I'm thinking the NX might get ports from PC version directly instead.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Well, a hybrid doesn't mean you do everything better.
It means you make a lot of compromises.



You don't film screens. You simulate them.
Filming screens looks really, really bad.

Of course it was added in editing, like with any commercial / promo of that kind you see. Otherwise you would have horrible color reproduction, Moire etc on the screen content.

As for the real question whether or not we saw real world performance: who knows.

Ah yeah, I figured they were simulated but I didn't know the exact reasoning. Thanks.

 

[forknknife]

It's possible that they filmed the majority of the reveal a long time ago, potentially even before E3 this year, in which case the hardware likely wouldn't be ready yet. That's completely my speculation though.

But I've seen quite a few posters say that the game footage was not run on the hardware shown and added in in editing. I don't know for sure but people are saying that.

If it's a Pascal Tegra chip as rumored then it will be about 3x more powerful than the Wii U at a minimum.

I don't mean that the switch units in the video were running the games , obviously the footage was edited in the video. But the footage itself is most probably running in switch level hardware.

I remember that video demo for the Wii U reveal, the one with the bird, and how everyone was saying that it looked next gen compared to ps3 and 360 bit we ended up seeing how it was barely above that.

I think the same thing is happening now with many people here, hoping this is close to an X1... have you guys seen gears of war 4 on Xbox 1? Do you really think a tablet is going to run that? Some of you are just delusional IMHO.

 

[Donnie]

Why do you guys think the switch will be much more powerful than even the Wii U? Zelda liked the same as the Wii U version, mario kart the same as mario kart 8, 3d mario actually worse that the Wii U mario, Skyrim was a ps3/360 era game.....

Because at the absolute low end of Tegra Maxwell with no active cooling (so downclocked) you still have a chip over twice the performance of WiiU.

Then you have the fact that Switch is actively cooled, therefore logically not downclocked. A quick look at Mario and Zelda doesn't tell you as much as basic facts about the kind of hardware Nintendo are using. There's no way that hardware is anything but significantly more powerful than WiiU.

 

[Donnie]

There's also heat issues, a device designed to draw 10w is not going to draw 200w all of sudden.

And not, even if this is the way things are headed, that dosn't make Switch a console, instead of a mobile product.

But you're talking about what's possible with mobile hardware vs 2013 desktop/cut down console hardware. The newest Tegra GPU actively cooled could match those devices, that doesn't mean Switch is necessarily up there with PS4 (I doubt it is) but it doesn't mean it can't be either simply based on the kind of hardware its using (in docked mode of course) No need to draw the same wattage because its newer hardware on a smaller process.

The console vs handheld thing is pedantic IMO. I mean what does make something a console vs a handheld?, that its internal hardware is more similar to desktop silicon? Desktop and mobile hardware are diverging as it is..

 

[Elfforkusu]

Yeah it's definitely just a handheld if that is the case.

A bit disappointing =/

Could still run at a higher TDP when docked.

Aside: Nvidia's apparent hands-on role in this is really comforting, tbh. Almost feels like Nintendo came up and asked "could you, uh, help us make our next portable a successor to the Shield?" and then revealed the twist (hybrid), and Nvidia said yes.

The thing is, nvidia knows their shit

 

[CLEEK]

I can't believe so many people on GAF haven't heard the term 'man-years' before.

 

[forknknife]

Because at the absolute low end of Tegra Maxwell with no active cooling (so downclocked) you still have a chip over twice the performance of WiiU.

Then you have the fact that Switch is actively cooled, therefore logically not downclocked. A quick look at Mario and Zelda doesn't tell you as much as basic facts about the kind of hardware Nintendo are using. There's no way that hardware is anything but significantly more powerful than WiiU.

I hope I'm wrong then but it doesn't bode well that they show footage looking exactly as the Wii U games. Specially in a promo video I would expect they show us something to wow us. They sure didn't with this. The concept of the switch u have no problem with though, I think is great.

 

[forknknife]

I can't believe so many people on GAF haven't heard the term 'man-years' before.

Gaf knows only about child-man-years.


Ok, I'll leave now....

 

[Saucycarpdog]

The DS sold over 57 million units in NA and the 3DS sold nearly 20 million. This is not my definition of niche.

It is my definition of niche when consoles and PC have always been way more popular than them and the fact that there numbers have been dwindling for years now. Maybe a decade ago during the DS years you might have an argument but today they hardly found in the consumer mindshare. I also fully expect the switch to sell less than the 3DS in NA.

 

[Aceofspades]

So the usual 2-gens behind Nintendo....Dock should have provided extra power.

250 CUDA cores VS 1152 on PS4 and 2304 on PRO

I know you can't compare nvidia with AMD but still we are talking tegra not proper full-fledge nVidia card.

its also understandable to have weak system to preserve power when handheld, I just hoped for extra power using dock- mode

 

[LordOfChaos]

So now that active cooling is confirmed, and Tegra Pascal is highly suggested, it's probably safe to say that the clocks will run faster when docked to a power supply.

If that's so, that do we think the docked performance will look like? Just a resolution/framerate bump? Possibly additional effects?

I missed about 400 pages of Neogaf today, but when was it confirmed it was active cooling? I saw a vent and presumably a heatsink beyond it, but how do we know there's a fan?


I wonder if the tablet doesn't have a fan, but the dock blows air through the vents...That would be an interesting idea. And a lot like what I hoped for months ago, come to think of it.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Is there any update on SMDs condition?

 

[Plinko]

So the usual 2-gens behind Nintendo....Dock should have provided extra power.

250 CUDA cores VS 1152 on PS4 and 2304 on PRO

I know you can't compare nvidia with AMD but still we are talking tegra not proper full-fledge nVidia card.

its also understandable to have weak system to preserve power when handheld, I just hoped for extra power using dock- mode

Laura (who broke several pieces of news about the Switch) just said she heard it does probably provide something extra.

 

[Lionel Richie]

It is my definition of niche when consoles and PC have always been way more popular than them and the fact that there numbers have been dwindling for years now. Maybe a decade ago during the DS years you might have an argument but today they hardly found in the consumer mindshare. I also fully expect the switch to sell less than the 3DS in NA.

Selling 20 million units of anything is the definiton of this thing not being niche, I'm not sure how that's even a discussion. Also good for you for being able to "fully expect" anything out of a product based on 3 minutes trailer. I'd wait for the games line-up, price and early impressions to pass a judgement, but where's the fun in that?

 

[Donnie]

I hope I'm wrong then but it doesn't bode well that they show footage looking exactly as the Wii U games. Specially in a promo video I would expect they show us something to wow us. They sure didn't with this. The concept of the switch u have no problem with though, I think is great.

Yeah but to be honest its very Nintendo to focus on wowing with the concept and not even consider that people will spend time analyzing the graphics.

I think looking at the footage would be more salient if it weren't for the fact that even older low clocked versions of the hardware inside Switch already outperform WiiU.

 

[Aceofspades]

Laura (who broke several pieces of news about the Switch) just said she heard it does probably provide something extra.

I really hope so, I want good 3rd prty support for Switch, Ninty can't provide large number of games for the whole year.