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[Shin Johnpv]

Why push the format? First of all I suspect UMD is for gaming first, not movies.

If you're going to buy DVD format rather then UMD, fine. Who isn't? What reasonable person is going to purchase a obscure propriety format over the standard? No one.

Bundling UMD video with DVD's, Playstation/PSP games, sony music cd's, or PSP itself and hiking the price up $10 or so is an excellent way to get the UMD format out there.

The intention is to get it to coexist rather then directly compete with DVD (because it can’t).

UMD is never going to reach the market saturation where including a UMD version of a movie with the DVD version for 10 dollars more is going to sell that great, companies allready release enough versions of DVDs as it is, between full screen/wide screen/ special editions, and I'm willing to bet that 95% of the population isn't going to want to see DVD prices jump up to 30 bucks from the average of 20 so that everyone of them includes a UMD version of the movie, if something like this happened you'd see FS/WS/SE/FS+UMD/WS+UMD/SE+UMD it would get out of hand not worth the effort

most people who will want a portable movie solution will buy a portable dvd player or use the memory stick on what ever portable gadget they have

new formats take alot of work, and alot of effort to make worthwhile, and alot of companies supporting it, I just don't see any one releasing UMD playable devices except for Sony UMD is never going to reach a point were it's on the level of DVD when it comes to being considered a standard, chances are even sony themselfs wont release stand alone portable UMD players which bassicaly gurantees it'll never reach the market saturation of DVDs

I'm sorry but I just don't see the UMD format going anywhere when it comes to movies and music

 

[soundwave05]

Yeah, UMD movie and music playback I think is gonna be a bust on the PSP.

Not saying people won't utilize that functionality, but by the time there's a decent library of UMD movies, Memory Stick's will be cheaper, so why not just buy a movie on DVD and then rip it to MP4 format and transfer that to a Memory Stick if you want to watch it on the go?

You'd actually probably get better battery performance this way too, since the movie is running off the Memory Stick and not a spinning disc.

Anyways this move by Nintendo does sort of flesh out what Game Boy Next could be ...

- GCN-level graphics (ATi GPU)
- touchscreen display
- MP3/MP4 video playback/SD Card support
- WiFi
- Basic daily organizer functionality

Maybe one other kind of new input (built-in camera? tilt-sensor?).

 

[Justin Bailey]

Ask Jay and Silent Bob.

+1 for the clerks reference

 

[Idiot Member]

Nintendo should license the GBA technology to Apple to make this product. It would probably never happen though.

Why would Apple want the GBA chipset... you act as if it's something special...

Without the brand it's worthless.

Personally I don't think UMD is going to take off, I can't imagine people are going to rebuy all their dvd movies again (after just recently rebuying all their movies in the last 7 years from the switch from VHS to DVD) just to watch them on the go PSP + Buying entire movie collection again is much more expensive then buying a portable dvd player which Ive seen as low as the 150 - 200 dollar range which many of them have larger screens than the PSP

People said the exact same thing about CDs and DVDs...

I've heard it so many times that it's beginning to annoy me.

Me too.

Why push the format?

Actually the reason to push the format is because with support from 3 industries the format has a better chance of being succesful.

Support is the number one thing a medium needs to become mainstream. If the entire music industry backs a format, it'll likely be adopted, same with the film industry. Combine those with the gaming industry, and you have a higher chance of success, and thus sony's dream of the 21st century walkman.

Memory Stick isn't a secure enough format to recieve serious backing from any industry as a media storage format.

 

[soundwave05]

I assume Apple would want the chipset because the chipset then can play like 500+ games a lot of which are "simple" or "classic" titles that a broader i-Pod audience can play (anyone can play Super Mario Bros. or Donkey Kong).

They could sell games through i-Tunes if Nintendo agreed, similar to the i-Que system in China just without the kiosks.

Probably never will happen, but would be pretty cool.

Who cares if Memory Stick isn't "secure"? There's already another thread on this board where board members are ripping their DVD movies (like Star Wars and Monsters Inc.) to their Memory Stick for play on the PSP.

As a user, that's movie playback functionality right there, screw buying a seperate UMD version of a movie.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

People said the exact same thing about CDs and DVDs...

no they didn't and CDs and DVDs had far greater support out the gate than UMD has, specially with DVD, with in a year of it's release DVD drives were standard on midrange - highrange PCs, at a time when there was a boom of people buying PCs, plus you had multiple hardware companies supporting both DVD and CDs, which both represented a huge jump in quality over their predicessors, I see no UMD drives for the PC, I see no home UMD drives, I see no other company support the UMD hardware wise except sony, and UMD represents a step backward in quality



[quality]
Actually the reason to push the format is because with support from 3 industries the format has a better chance of being succesful.

Support is the number one thing a medium needs to become mainstream. If the entire music industry backs a format, it'll likely be adopted, same with the film industry. Combine those with the gaming industry, and you have a higher chance of success, and thus sony's dream of the 21st century walkman.

Memory Stick isn't a secure enough format to recieve serious backing from any industry as a media storage format.[/QUOTE]


UMD has very little chance to be a successfull format the way DVD and CD has become, yes support is king and I see none for UMD, wasn't there a thread not that long ago asking what movies have been announced for the UMD format, besides the FF movie what is there

is MGM signed on to make movies in that format?
is Disney?
is Paramount
is Dreamworks
is Fox?

where's the support there?

more than just Sony was making CDs and DVDs when they were introduced

and the was more than 1 device that could play cds and dvds when they came right now the ONLY THING that plays UMDs is the PSP, where's the support there

there's no RCA UMD player, or panasonic one or toshiba one and there's never going to be

no format is secure were tapes secure, or VHS tapes, how about CDs and DVDs they sure arent secure

are there any music releases schedualed for the UMD format? I doubt it what would be the point between normal portable cd players and the apple ipod out there and if the rumors are true and apple is working on a video version of the iPod you can completely forget UMD then

and besides like soundwave said people are allready ripping movies to their memory sticks, which would also give them better battery life so why even bother with UMD

 

[Agent X]

I'm sorry but I just don't see the UMD format going anywhere when it comes to movies and music

What about for viewing children's cartoon shows on a portable format? Game Boy Advance Video has demonstrated that there's at least some segment of the market that's willing to pay for this. With the UMD format, you could have vastly higher video quality compared to GBA Video (higher resolution, more colors, and better frame rate), vastly higher capacity, yet with a lower cost of manufacturing. This seems like a winning formula to me, and could later be extended to video footage of "real" actors, which the GBA would certainly choke on.

With all of this in mind, I wouldn't be too surprised if Majesco were to produce a "PSP Video" series not long after the system launches.

 

[soundwave05]

I don't see it either.

One of the first things I'm gonna do with my PSP is rip some Simpsons episodes/Dave Chapelle skits/ or a full DVD movie onto a Memory Stick to carry around.

Why even bother with a UMD movie?

That'd be like if Apple started selling propiertary Apple CD music albums that only ran off the i-Pod ... you might as well just buy the regular CD and rip it to MP3 and then onto your i-Pod instead.

To be dead honest, I think Sony may have made a mistake in using a disc-based format for the PSP at all.

They could've used some propietary "card" format that extends up to 1.5 GB for games and then also had Memory Stick support for video/music. It could've saved them some $$ in terms of hardware costs, improved battery life and maybe even made the unit slimmer/smaller if they dumped the UMD drive entirely.

 

[Future]

UMD format won't sell shit because the only shit that plays em will be unique Sony products, and mainly the PSP. Just like the minidisc...they tried to sell pre-recorded discs with albums and failed miserably because everyone has cds. No advantage at all in getting a minidisc version. Same deal with the UMD stuff...no really reason to buy them since a dvd isn't much bigger and you can get portable dvd players for chump change now.

The only market I see for it is for kids. Parents picking up little UMD videos for their kids to play so they'll shut up in the back seat. Tech savvy people will be using memory sticks, and others will think of portable dvd players before even considering a PSP and UMD.

 

[Drensch]

+1 for the clerks reference

It's actually a Jay And Silent bob Strike back reference, in regards to Banky illegally licensing their rights into a movie.

 

[Agent X]

They could've used some propietary "card" format that extends up to 1.5 GB for games and then also had Memory Stick support for video/music. It could've saved them some $$ in terms of hardware costs, improved battery life and maybe even made the unit slimmer/smaller if they dumped the UMD drive entirely.

It would've also pushed the release of the system back to the year 2009...unless you don't mind paying more for a game than the system to play it on.

 

[soundwave05]

I dunno. I think maybe they should've just used technology similar to what Nintendo is using with the DS (card format), just one with a higher capacity.

 

[Justin Bailey]

It's actually a Jay And Silent bob Strike back reference, in regards to Banky illegally licensing their rights into a movie.

Awww damn, I thought someone else has seen the clerks animated television show around here. There's a scene where they have a character that looks like pikachu on and they say "Not pikachu, please don't sue" - ahhh well.

 

[mashoutposse]

You guys NEED to see UMD movie playback in action. The image quality is ridiculous for such an inexpensive and physically small product. Once people take a look at the quality of just the trailers on the demo disc, people will be sold on at least the idea of buying a few of their favorites on UMD for PSP playback.

This GBA/NDS product will not compare. That would be like comparing a progressive scan DVD output on a high end television to any old choppy 320x240 video off the net. Please wait until you've seen it first hand before automatically dismissing that as a trollish statement.

 

[soundwave05]

I still would rather just have a high capacity Memory Stick and convert my DVD movies onto there. Hopefully the prices will come down sooner rather than later.

Even in a year's time, I really can't forsee a large library of PSP movies. No major studio (Columbia doesn't count) has really announced anything for the format at all yet. By the time there is a half-decent library of titles (if there ever is) on UMD, Memory Stick prices should be $99 or less for a 1 GB stick.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

What about for viewing children's cartoon shows on a portable format? Game Boy Advance Video has demonstrated that there's at least some segment of the market that's willing to pay for this. With the UMD format, you could have vastly higher video quality compared to GBA Video (higher resolution, more colors, and better frame rate), vastly higher capacity, yet with a lower cost of manufacturing. This seems like a winning formula to me, and could later be extended to video footage of "real" actors, which the GBA would certainly choke on.

With all of this in mind, I wouldn't be too surprised if Majesco were to produce a "PSP Video" series not long after the system launches.

is the GBA video a successfull "format" it may sell alot of units but I wouldnt call it a successfull format like DVD or CD again it's a proprietairy thing on one piece of hardware

and video is video it doesnt matter if it's staring real actors, or it's cartoons, video footage is video footage, live action footage wouldnt cause the GBA to "certainly choke"

 

[Shin Johnpv]

The only market I see for it is for kids. Parents picking up little UMD videos for their kids to play so they'll shut up in the back seat. Tech savvy people will be using memory sticks, and others will think of portable dvd players before even considering a PSP and UMD.

and didn't sony say their market for the PSP is "adults" so wouldn't that make their market for that really tiny

 

[aoi tsuki]

That'd be like if Apple started selling propiertary Apple CD music albums that only ran off the i-Pod ... you might as well just buy the regular CD and rip it to MP3 and then onto your i-Pod instead.

i agree with you, but the funny thing is, Apple's already doing this in a sense with iTunes, and people are eating it up. Granted, iTunes tracks aren't completely proprietary; they will play in Winamp via plugins, but it's not always flawless from machine to machine, and it's not as easy to play them as straight MP3 or even AAC files for the average user.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

It would've also pushed the release of the system back to the year 2009...unless you don't mind paying more for a game than the system to play it on.

I've seen SD cards in the 1 gig range for 60 - 70 bucks, much cheaper than sony's Memory stick duo and there are even cheaper flash memory solutions still

it wouldn't take till 2009 to make that affordable

 

[soundwave05]

Yeah, damn I wish Sony had just backed the SD Card standard (Sony and Panasonic managed to agree on Blu-Ray and DVD).

$60 for a 1GB Memory Stick is a lot more reasonable.

 

[mashoutposse]

I doubt UMD is meant to take over DVD or anything like that. UMD multimedia will be considered a success if Sony could get 20+ million PSPs out there and get 10% buying on the regular. IMO, UMD movies are going to do VERY well. At least as well as GBA Video.

 

[Brofist]

When is FF:AC coming out on UMD anyway. 1Q 2005?

 

[Shin Johnpv]

You guys NEED to see UMD movie playback in action. The image quality is ridiculous for such an inexpensive and physically small product. Once people take a look at the quality of just the trailers on the demo disc, people will be sold on at least the idea of buying a few of their favorites on UMD for PSP playback.

This GBA/NDS product will not compare. That would be like comparing a progressive scan DVD output on a high end television to any old choppy 320x240 video off the net. Please wait until you've seen it first hand before automatically dismissing that as a trollish statement.

the PSP resolution isnt that much higher than the 320 x 240 at 480 x 272 and much smaller than 480p on an HDTV

no one is saying the GBA/NDS solution is visually better theyre saying that UMD movies are going to BOMB BOMB BOMB which they will

just like music releases on the minidisc

no point to it

 

[Brofist]

I've seen SD cards in the 1 gig range for 60 - 70 bucks, much cheaper than sony's Memory stick duo and there are even cheaper flash memory solutions still

it wouldn't take till 2009 to make that affordable

those UMDs cost the same to manufacture as DVDs..which is to say basically pennies.

 

[mashoutposse]

the PSP resolution isnt that much higher than the 320 x 240 at 480 x 272 and much smaller than 480p on an HDTV

no one is saying the GBA/NDS solution is visually better theyre saying that UMD movies are going to BOMB BOMB BOMB which they will

just like music releases on the minidisc

no point to it

See it for yourself. There is a VERY good chance that you will change your tune... trust me on this one, bro.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I doubt UMD is meant to take over DVD or anything like that. UMD multimedia will be considered a success if Sony could get 20+ million PSPs out there and get 10% buying on the regular. IMO, UMD movies are going to do VERY well. At least as well as GBA Video.

how many GBA videos have they sold ? a million? that's no wheres near 10% of the installed user base of the GBA and GBA SP

 

[Agent X]

is the GBA video a successfull "format" it may sell alot of units but I wouldnt call it a successfull format like DVD or CD again it's a proprietairy thing on one piece of hardware

Well, you said that UMD wouldn't go anywhere, and I just gave you an example of how it could easily be applied in a real-world situation. You might not see studios converting their libraries of thousands of movies to UMD overnight, but you could see some niche products like kids' cartoons relatively soon.

and video is video it doesnt matter if it's staring real actors, or it's cartoons, video footage is video footage, live action footage wouldnt cause the GBA to "certainly choke"

All video is not created equal.

The GBA Video codec was most likely created to give good results on traditional cartoons, which use far less color and often have less activity than footage of "live" actors. The GBA has a rather limited color palette, and can only display 256 colors on the screen at any given time. Live footage demands more colors and a better frame rate than what has been demonstrated on GBA Video cartridges so far.

Notice that all of the GBA Video releases so far have been cartoons, and no live action shows. If the GBA was up to the task (which it evidently is not), then we would've at least seen at least one title demonstrating that this was possible.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

See it for yourself. There is a VERY good chance that you will change your tune... trust me on this one, bro.

beta also looked and sounded better than VHS, which one won out?

and you know why because it was cheaper


and it's the screen that looks nice, a correctly encoded movie on an memory stick could look almost as good hell probably good enough that 90% of the people out there wouldnt be able to tell the difference

 

[aoi tsuki]

the PSP resolution isnt that much higher than the 320 x 240 at 480 x 272 and much smaller than 480p on an HDTV

no one is saying the GBA/NDS solution is visually better theyre saying that UMD movies are going to BOMB BOMB BOMB which they will

just like music releases on the minidisc

no point to it

i'm not exactly sure what your first sentence is saying, but the difference between the PSP's display vesus say a 36 inch 16:9 HDTV would be pretty negligable to most people given the average viewing distances between the two, especially at 480p on the HDTV. i'd be willing to wager that given the perceived quality, the PSP display would be equal if not better than the televisions in most US homes today.

Also, Minidisc music releases gave no additional benefit beyond direct compatibility with MD players. UMD movies could also have game demos, extra levels for game tie-ins, music downloads, or whatever that could be saved to the MS Duo. Whether this provides enough value to make a UMD movie purchase worthwhile is debateable, but it's clear that the format is more versatile in the PSP than pre-recorded MDs were in their player/recorder units.

 

[mashoutposse]

beta also looked and sounded better than VHS, which one won out?

and you know why because it was cheaper


and it's the screen that looks nice, a correctly encoded movie on an memory stick could look almost as good hell probably good enough that 90% of the people out there wouldnt be able to tell the difference

Yes, it's the screen that looks nice. That's not the point. Some people might like the ease of picking up a couple of episodes of their favorite show and getting them in TOP quality without having to first find it then convert on their PCs... actually, I'm betting that a lot of people will like that.

Nobody will re-buy their whole collection for the PSP, but I'm sure that lots will get at least their favorites on it, especially if they manage to come in at ~$9.99.

 

[soundwave05]

As Memory Stick prices drop though and/or people figure out ways to use their portable HDD devices with the PSP, it'll be less likely that they'll buy a UMD version of a video rather than just ripping their DVDs to MP4.

Could go either way, but that's just how I see it going.

You already have PSP owners right now ripping movies like Star Wars and Spider-Man 2 onto their PSPs on this board.

Although this could also lead to massive piracy of PSP software as a whole, not that I'm complaining.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Nobody will re-buy their whole collection for the PSP, but I'm sure that lots will get at least their favorites on it, especially if they manage to come in at ~$9.99.

which is what I said earlier 5 - 10 bucks I could see it doing ok but not becoming a dominant format IMHO

 

[Brofist]

As Memory Stick prices drop though and/or people figure out ways to use their portable HDD devices with the PSP, it'll be less likely that they'll buy a UMD version of a video rather than just ripping their DVDs to MP4.

What about DVD movies? Do all people download/rent and burn DVD movies rather than buy them? Last I checked DVD movies sell a ton. And that's with it being an even easier format to copy than to rip a DVD and encode it in the PSP format.

which is what I said earlier 5 - 10 bucks I could see it doing ok but not becoming a dominant format IMHO

Why does it have to dominate, or to outsell the DVD format to be successful?

 

[soundwave05]

Not all, but DVD is the main format right?

If I'm buying a movie like say Spider-Man 2, even to watch primarily on my PSP, I'd still rather have the DVD original because if I ever want to watch it on TV at a higher resolution, I can do that also.

It's kinda like having a "master copy" that you can always go back to.

Besides another benefit of running movies off a Memory Stick as opposed to a UMD is battery life should be longer to boot.

 

[Hardknock]

which is what I said earlier 5 - 10 bucks I could see it doing ok but not becoming a dominant format IMHO

You guys are smoking crack if you think any type of UMD media will sell for 5 - 10 bucks. :lol Sony has to make money, the Movie studios need to make money, plus the store has to make money. How in the hell, with a proprietary format will they sell movies for 5 - 10 bucks a pop?? If that's the case sign me up right now!

 

[Future]

-------------
Also, Minidisc music releases gave no additional benefit beyond direct compatibility with MD players. UMD movies could also have game demos, extra levels for game tie-ins, music downloads, or whatever that could be saved to the MS Duo.
--------------


There will be no point for anyone to pay for this. Doesn't matter what they have extra on the disc. No one is going to buy movies to take on the go when they can easilly buy a portable to play the collection they already have. Makes no sense unless you just gotta watch it on your PSP, which is why I brought up the kid market. It's why those GBA Videos actually sell, it gives parents a one trick pony that can keep their kids entertained in multiple ways.

No adult is going to buy copies of stuff they've already got just to take it with them, when they can easilly take with them what they already got. Sony knows this too, but it looks and sounds good so they'll probably go with it for awhile. Games, Memory stick capability for custom movies and mp3s is what will sell this system

 

[seismologist]

I bet the DS version announcement will be part of the Megat0n bomb drop around PSP launch time.

 

[kaching]

If video is encoded for PSP screen resolution then there should probably be room for 4-6 hrs of MPEG4 video on a UMD. If Sony is smart, they won't simply try to turn UMD into DVD's little brother by attempting to clone standard DVD releases, they'll optimize the content package to emphasize the portability and multimedia nature of the PSP experience. Don't "port" one of the standard Spiderman DVD releases to UMD, just give me Spiderman 1 & 2 on a disc. Don't produce every single episode of every single season of a TV series in a UMD collection, produce "Best Of..." UMDs instead. Sampler UMDs (i.e. the HBO sampler, featuring an episode from each of their popular series). UMDs that feature the movie plus its soundtrack. UMDs that feature 2 or 3 albums worth of songs (or more, thanks to ATRAC compression). Etc.

I think the road to success for UMD beyond games is for Sony and other content providers to realize that this is a chance to sell content again that wouldn't normally exist. But, if they're stingy about it and limit the amount of content per disc, it'll be a non-starter.

It may not have an HDD like an iPod or the personal media players that are popping up, but smart use of the codecs that the PSP supports and the full 1.8 gig of a dual-layered UMD could allow a handful of discs to go a long way towards offering comparable amounts of entertainment with that bee-utiful screen putting the entire PSP package over the top.

 

[Hardknock]

If video is encoded for PSP screen resolution then there should probably be room for 4-6 hrs of MPEG4 video on a UMD. If Sony is smart, they won't simply try to turn UMD into DVD's little brother by attempting to clone standard DVD releases, they'll optimize the content package to emphasize the portability and multimedia nature of the PSP experience. Don't "port" one of the standard Spiderman DVD releases to UMD, just give me Spiderman 1 & 2 on a disc. Don't produce every single episode of every single season of a TV series in a UMD collection, produce "Best Of..." UMDs instead. Sampler UMDs (i.e. the HBO sampler, featuring an episode from each of their popular series). UMDs that feature the movie plus its soundtrack. UMDs that feature 2 or 3 albums worth of songs (or more, thanks to ATRAC compression). Etc.

I think the road to success for UMD beyond games is for Sony and other content providers to realize that this is a chance to sell content again that wouldn't normally exist. But, if they're stingy about it and limit the amount of content per disc, it'll be a non-starter.

It may not have an HDD like an iPod or the personal media players that are popping up, but smart use of the codecs that the PSP supports and the full 1.8 gig of a dual-layered UMD could allow a handful of discs to go a long way towards offering comparable amounts of entertainment with that bee-utiful screen putting the entire PSP package over the top.

That part would be so awesome if we were actually allowed to burn UMDs ourselves. Not gonna happen though, which sucks.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

If the GBA was up to the task (which it evidently is not), then we would've at least seen at least one title demonstrating that this was possible.

Well, there are the third party products that have been out for a long time that allow you to play any old video you encode. But yeah, cartoons tend to compress to smaller file sizes at decent quality, so that could be an issue for a company trying to make a buck.

 

[Drensch]

Awww damn, I thought someone else has seen the clerks animated television show around here. There's a scene where they have a character that looks like pikachu on and they say "Not pikachu, please don't sue" - ahhh well.

Remember the time we got stuck in the freezer...

 

[rawk]

Remember the time we got stuck in the freezer...

BEAR IS DRIVING CAR!!

 

[The End]

For UMD movies to take off, they need to come in at a sub-$10 price point.

I'd pay, say, $7 for a copy of Goldfinger or Stargate to watch on a plane trip.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

What do you think would be the possibility of game ROM's being put on SD cards to play on this thing?

I ask 'cos I had the idea a while ago of being able to have a like "GB HD" in where you could download old game ROM's and such to play on the GBA, NDS or the next GameBoy. I had the idea of doing a sort of an iQue like structure here to extend the life of GBA and introduce a new way to distribute games for portables. We could go to in-store kiosks or get at home kit's for the GAMECUBE (Seriel Port 2). They could help prevent piracy by downloading the content wirelessly!

Any thoughts?