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*NO BOOK SPOILERS* Game of Thrones - Season 2 - Sundays on HBO (read rules in OP)

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Speevy

Banned
Things other than nudity I wouldn't show a 12 year old:


-Baby getting its throat slit
-Men getting impaled through the back (various)
-Teenage girl seeing the head of her father
-Man getting his head cut off (various)
-Man/woman getting their throat slit (various)
-Woman eating a heart
-Molten gold poured on a man's head
-Woman giving birth to a monster
-Man having sex with his sister
-Horse's head cut off
 

John Harker

Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Did they ever reveal who actually hired the guy to kill Bran? I know Little Finger gave the dagger to Tyrion but who actually gave it to the assassin?

It was joffery. First time we got insight into how truly evil he was.

This was apparently implied but not directly stated so ill tag it just in case
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
He is a mature 12 year old.

Instead of editing out the sex stuff, it might be a good opportunity to discuss what the show is trying to convey, and how depictions of base human behavior (wanton sex and violence) is how a primitive society behaves. Make parallels to medieval times, which this book is based off of. Explain how violence and sex should be handled in the context of a modern and law-abiding society. Explain to your son how to distinguish between fictional story-telling and real life, and how to go about deriving morals and lessons from fiction that can be applied to real-life situations.
 

sangreal

Member
It was joffery. First time we got insight into how truly evil he was.

what? I don't remember anything suggesting that. I do think it was implied that Tyrion was framed by another Lannister. I mean, your theory would make sense but I don't remember any supporting evidence

edit: added tags because I think the post I quoted was a spoiler
 

Speevy

Banned
Instead of editing out the sex stuff, it might be a good opportunity to discuss what the show is trying to convey, and how depictions of base human behavior (wanton sex and violence) is how a primitive society behaves. Make parallels to medieval times, which this book is based off of. Explain how violence and sex should be handled in the context of a modern and law-abiding society. Explain to your son how to distinguish between fictional story-telling and real life, and how to go about deriving morals and lessons from fiction that can be applied to real-life situations.


That sounds fun!
 

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I think Theon realized that the Starks would send their men to take the square back, leaving Winterfell open to attack. Goes with Bran's vision

Yes, that's what I surmised as well.
 

Subitai

Member
what? I don't remember anything suggesting that. I do think it was implied that Tyrion was framed by another Lannister. I mean, your theory would make sense but I don't remember any supporting evidence
I think he was speculating. Jaime said he pushed Bran but didn't hire an assassin when confronted by Cat, and Littlefinger didn't shed any light on the subject, so no one has figured it out.
 

John Harker

Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
what? I don't remember anything suggesting that. I do think it was implied that Tyrion was framed by another Lannister. I mean, your theory would make sense but I don't remember any supporting evidence

It was in season 1, I don't recall specifically which episode, but it was heavily implied he stole the dagger and hired the assassin
 
Instead of editing out the sex stuff, it might be a good opportunity to discuss what the show is trying to convey, and how depictions of base human behavior (wanton sex and violence) is how a primitive society behaves. Make parallels to medieval times, which this book is based off of. Explain how violence and sex should be handled in the context of a modern and law-abiding society. Explain to your son how to distinguish between fictional story-telling and real life, and how to go about deriving morals and lessons from fiction that can be applied to real-life situations.

Good parent, spotted!
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
The only followup I remember about Bran's assassin was when Jamie and Cercei share a moment together after news gets out that the assassination failed, and Jamie was like, I'll kill them all myself, or something...I don't really recall all that much about it.
 

big ander

Member
Things other than nudity I wouldn't show a 12 year old:


-Baby getting its throat slit
-Men getting impaled through the back (various)
-Teenage girl seeing the head of her father
-Man getting his head cut off (various)
-Man/woman getting their throat slit (various)
-Woman eating a heart
-Molten gold poured on a man's head
-Woman giving birth to a monster
-Man having sex with his sister
-Horse's head cut off

Seriously. We can't tell the guy what to do, but all of this is SO much worse.
 
He knows his kid better than us. I read the books at 13 with no ill effects, so it is entirely possible he is able to handle this stuff at 12. And it is an american sensibility to be bothered by nudity more than violence, to the extent that most kids by that age are exposed to a fair amount of violence already.
 

3rdman

Member
White Walkers are not wights.

I believe that the White Walkers are also referred to as "The Others"...The Wights are essentially their zombie offspring. We haven't seen "The Others" yet, by the way
I mention this only because it was confusing to me at the start and I wrongly thought that everything north of the wall (including the Wildings) were supernatural...it was all confusing to me and it would have helped me if someone had explained their differences.

I hope you don't mind my presence...I enjoy the discussion here better than the other thread which gets bogged down in too much "not like the book" talk.
 

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I'd just like to say that the kid playing Arya is doing a fantastic job. Nearly every scene she is in ends up being pretty memorable for me.

Well, for those that don't know, she's supposed to be a pre-teen in the show but the actress is actually 15 years old. She would have been 14 when they shot season 2.

Not to take anything away from her acting, she's awesome, but being a bit older means she can add some emotional depth that they likely wouldn't get if they had actually cast someone Arya's age.
 
He is going to attack Winterfell after Rodrik sends all the men to the square

Yeah I watched that scene again and his big smile comes after he says that the Starks will send their troops to take back Torrhen's Square. Still seems like a big gamble of his to expect that he can take his troops to Winterfell without being noticed by the Starks on the way there. He can't really be sure what he will face at Winterfell either.

Theon is up to something though and it will be interesting to see how willing he is to fight against the Starks in order to win back the respect of his father.
 

Martian

Member
Instead of editing out the sex stuff, it might be a good opportunity to discuss what the show is trying to convey, and how depictions of base human behavior (wanton sex and violence) is how a primitive society behaves. Make parallels to medieval times, which this book is based off of. Explain how violence and sex should be handled in the context of a modern and law-abiding society. Explain to your son how to distinguish between fictional storytelling and real life, and how to go about deriving morals and lessons from fiction that can be applied to real-life situations.

Sounds a lot better than the akward talk I had with my dad.
As for the violence part: not to say I know your son better than you do, but when I was twelve I had already seen Saving Private Ryan and Gladiator and various other violent movies. And I dont believe it scarred me, on the contrary: as long as it's not unnecessary violence I think it's okay to watch for a 12 year old.
 
Last week, I said that if Renly dies, I'll be hugely upset. I've now decided what would upset me more than anything else on this show: Dany either killing, or ordering the killing of, Jorah.
 

Violet_0

Banned
Last week, I said that if Renly dies, I'll be hugely upset. I've now decided what would upset me more than anything else on this show: Dany either killing, or ordering the killing of, Jorah.

Jorah's not going to die, silly, he's way too awesome.

oh my ... that's not a good sign, is it?
 

Subitai

Member
Yeah, both Mormonts deserve to be on the cool-wall.
Jorah's not going to die, silly, he's way too awesome.

oh my ... that's not a good sign, is it?
Way un-awesome characters like Viserys or the Tickler die too.

The point is a character's life depends on many things, like what other characters feel about them or who benefits from their death, but never if we like them. It just feels that way compared to all the other epic stories we've consumed.
 
Editing it down is a shit idea.

You'd be butchering a great show and he wouldn't appreciate it when he's older.

The start of this episode was really, really surprising. Loved it.
 

Violet_0

Banned
^what??

on second thought, please don't elaborate

12? Game of thrones? No way. Way too much of...everything. He'd probably find it boring anyway. There's a lot of talking and the amount of characters will get confusing.

eh, there should be plenty enough boobs to hold a 12-year-old's attention, right?
 

Kayhan

Member
All the predictions are super annoying actually.

Because you know there are bound to be some who have read the books and find it funny to come in here with their cute predictions.

People who have read the books should go enjoy the other thread instead.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Sounds a lot better than the akward talk I had with my dad.
As for the violence part: not to say I know your son better than you do, but when I was twelve I had already seen Saving Private Ryan and Gladiator and various other violent movies. And I dont believe it scarred me, on the contrary: as long as it's not unnecessary violence I think it's okay to watch for a 12 year old.

Yeah, at 12 I remember having already seen a lot of violent content, and a fair share of sexual content as well. I wish my parents had been around to discuss it; I ended up getting most of my lessons in fiction interpretation through my English literature teachers, though.

One questions that will probably come up is why does this show in particular get to show such scenes while other TV shows do not. This could evolve into a discussion about media rules and regulations, and the differences between pay cable, and government regulated airwaves, and censorship. Although, too much talk about rules and regulations might be a bit boring to a 12-year old, heh.

Overall, it can be a light discussion about the general attitude of contemporary American culture and how we choose to regulate our own media and what our reasons for doing so are.

Applicable lessons could be - does the fiction on-screen reflect reality? If this possibly sparks up an interest in medieval Europe, it could be a good opportunity to read about history.

Comparing depictions of violence to actual violence can also bring up the subject of how violence and sex in media influences real life. You could ask him if he thinks that violence and sex in the media make us as a society more or less violent. It may or may not be surprising to him that actual real-world violence is on the decline, and that certain sex-related stats are trending in a positive direction, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#United_States

According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, the adjusted per-capita victimization rate of rape has declined from about 2.4 per 1000 people (age 12 and above) in 1980 to about 0.4 per 1000 people, a decline of about 85%.[33] But other government surveys, such as the Sexual Victimization of College Women study, critique the NCVS on the basis it includes only those acts perceived as crimes by the victim, and report a higher victimization rate.[34]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/us/27teen.html

popup.jpg


A humorous and slightly satirical opinion piece about teens, sex, and violence in the media from 2004:

http://www.ideasinactiontv.com/tcs_daily/2004/07/porn-and-violence-good-for-americas-children.html
Last week, I responded to James Glassman's observation that American teenagers are doing better than they've done in decades by trying to figure out why that might be. Teen pregnancy is down, along with teen crime, drug use, and many other social ills. There's also evidence that teenagers are more serious about life in general, and are more determined to make something worthwhile of their lives. Where just a few years ago the "teenager problem" looked insoluble, it seems well on the road to solving itself. But why?

After that column came out, it occurred to me that I had the answer: Porn and videogames. That's what's making American teens healthier.

It should have been obvious.

...

But the real lesson is that complex social problems are, well, complex, and that the law of unintended consequences continues to apply.

When teen crime and pregnancy rates were going up, people looked at things that were going on -- including increased availability of porn and violent imagery -- and concluded that there might be something to that correlation. It turned out that there wasn't. Porn and Duke Nukem took over the land, and yet teenagers became more responsible and less violent.

Maybe the porn, and the videogames, provided catharsis, serving as substitutes for the real thing. Maybe. And maybe there's no connection at all.

Regarding violence statistics, here is a good book that I recently read that covers violence statistics and what the how the trends look in a historical perspective. It also has some material in regards to media perception and depiction of violence.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0670022950/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Here is a short TED talk by the author that briefly describes what is in the book:

http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html


Personally speaking, I have always wondered why American culture approaches sex and violence in such different ways. I imagine part of it has to do with Puritan roots, but I also suspect that somehow we justify media violence since it's quite unlikely that someone will go out and murder people, but it is much easier to believe that reenacting sex would be much more likely, for whatever reason. It's a good discussion to be had: perception vs reality, and what that all means for a young boy growing up who will inevitably have to deal with these things.
 
I predict Arya will die in episode 8 (which should correspond with page 344 of the book...I'm guessing), Ned Stark will be resurrected at the end of the season (as happened at the end of the second book, I mean I think, because I haven't read them, so it's only a guess). Oh and it turns out fat Sam is the son of the old guy who leads the Nights Watch, and the two of them are in fact rightful heirs (page 121 of book 3) and OH LOOK ALL MY PREDICTIONS CAME TRUE I'M A GENIUS NEOGAF, LOVE ME?
 

Irish

Member
I always think it is absolutely hilarious when people who barely pay attention to the damn show want to make accusations over the smallest of things. We are all going to have to start including time stamps of when a certain piece of dialogue occurs or when the camera was positioned in such a way to imply something.
 

sangreal

Member
I always think it is absolutely hilarious when people who barely pay attention to the damn show want to make accusations over the smallest of things. We are all going to have to start including time stamps of when a certain piece of dialogue occurs or when the camera was positioned in such a way to imply something.

seriously. There is a lot of subtle stuff you only pick up if you watch the episodes more than once; no book knowledge required

I've never read the books, and I don't feel like I've been spoiled at all by this thread so far (other than that post I replied to above, but I doubt it will even be in the show at this point)

would be disappointed to learn that some of the predictions i've read are not speculation
 
Alright, I thought this thread was just some people saying too much, but if you can't trust predictions I'm out. Unsubbing.

Real shame so many GAFers can't do this right.
 

Carcetti

Member
That is just so lame. I'm a book reader and I mostly only read this show only thread because it's so fun to see the story through fresh eyes and fresh minds. People have so many awesome predictions and reactions... Fakers should get punished. :(
 

JGS

Banned
It was joffery. First time we got insight into how truly evil he was.

This was apparently implied but not directly stated so ill tag it just in case
I thought Cercei was the one. She's good with sneaky stuff and she is implicated in at least 3 dirty dealings (Brann, Robert, &/or The previous Hand).
 

JGS

Banned
Theon's turn seemed a bit too abrupt, but I guess that's due to the confines of a 10-episode television show, unless they have other stuff planned for him.
That's interesting because I never trusted him until he pledged himself to Robb toward the end of last season (Although he did do some questinable things still like near raping Asha(?)). He's the GoT's equivalent of Anakin Skywalker to me and he just turned to the Dark Side.

I'm hoping he won't actually allow harm to come to the Starks themselves though.
 

Violet_0

Banned
I assumed he said it because people had miraculously predicted things in this episode.

hm, I only recall someone (accidentally, I presume) mentioning the name Shadow Assassin, and others kept repeating it. With that information, it wasn't all that hard to guess that Renly would be killed.
 

Irish

Member
Yes, I'm sure that Stannis had Davos smuggle in the crazy red lady into an underground path to have a demon shadow baby just so that wild shadow could have a nice amicable chat with somebody in the camp. Now, did Stannis know exactly how Melisandre was going to go about doing what she planned to do? Probably not, and from this episode we know he really doesn't want to know. He did, however, know that she was going to do something very drastic that would immediately stop the upcoming battle before it even began.


I really don't see how it could be read any other way.
 

Subitai

Member
Ok, guys I'm going on lurker mode to respect Cornballer's (Mod in the North) wishes from the spoiler thread.

Advice before I go:

- Carefully think about what ALL the characters really want, not just complex and mysterious ones like Littlefinger.
- Look at the MAPS: if you can't point out someplace seen or mentioned in your mind then, find out so you can! (ex: Can you point out Qarth?)
- Keep updating the uncool/cool wall each week - but try to judge everyone based on the morals they're surrounded by and not the ones we are.
- Try to keep this thread going in the middle of the week so non-readers new to the show come here instead of wrecking themselves in the other thread.
- Since readers like and unlike me still will come in here dropping stuff, if only accidentally, just assume everything is speculation until you've seen it for yourself.


So, hope that helps you enjoy the roller-coaster that is this story.
 

JGS

Banned
I don't quite get why Cat didn't just stay or at least go back to Stannis since he was ready to forgive (Why she went with Renly to meet him anyway is a question mark) and she still needed the army.
 
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