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North Carolina asks Supreme Court to reinstate voter ID law

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jmood88

Member
I might get shit for this but I have no problem with requiring ID. I know it statistically helps our opposition but us fighting for and defending the right to vote without an ID based on that is very shaky ground to stand on and seems extremely biased. Maybe we should have better systems in place for people to replace their lost/stolen IDs.

I know voter fraud isnt really a thing in this sense, and you have to be registered to vote, but requiring ID is not exactly some foreign concept in the country. You can't get a job without ID either.

Edit: Ok I didn't know they were TARGETING low income and minority voters...thats a pretty fraudulent reason to want a law
"Despite all the information that is in plain sight, I'm just gonna make shit up because I feel like it".

Voter fraud is not an issue, there are many alternate forms of ID that don't require people to jump through ridiculous hoops to obtain, and these laws are explicitly fucking racist.
 
Its obvious as fuck why they would want it back, but they still try to get it approved anyway. These people are so goddamn desperate to keep minorities from voting against them...
 
Its obvious as fuck why they would want it back, but they still try to get it approved anyway. These people are so goddamn desperate to keep minorities from voting against them...

Its really fucking disgusting how far these fucksticks will go to keep minorities down. I'm going to make sure they get kicked to the curb this November and the midterm elections. I can't let this go on, it's just sickening to me.
 

mclem

Member
What's the "supposed" endgame, here? What's the justification for cutting early voting and closing poll centers across the state? To the uninitiated, sure, their argument for a photo ID to vote is a sound one -- it seems like a good justification (even though we all know that's not what it's about). But the rest of it...isn't. Less early voting and fewer polling stations will never help against voter fraud, which never really existed in the first place.

Please, please, please, let the Supreme Court hear this case, just so it can be taken apart the same way HB2 was taken apart.
 
Please, please, please, let the Supreme Court hear this case, just so it can be taken apart the same way HB2 was taken apart.

I'd like that to happen, but it's likelier to go 4-4 and uphold the recent lower court ruling. Which, yeah, it'll stop their Voter ID law, but won't fix the problem for everyone else, I don't think.
 

Kyzer

Banned
"Despite all the information that is in plain sight, I'm just gonna make shit up because I feel like it".

Voter fraud is not an issue, there are many alternate forms of ID that don't require people to jump through ridiculous hoops to obtain, and these laws are explicitly fucking racist.

"Plain sight" is voter fraud as the issue. It being "explicitly" racist and there being more context and hidden agendas is not plain sight. You happen to be more informed and passionate about this issue than me, I'd appreciate it if you gave me the benefit of the doubt and explained the issues behind it than just re-paraphrase my post as

"in spite of all the obvious im making stuff up cuz derp"

I bet there was a time that you didn't know about the nuances of "voter fraud".

Just saying. Dont be so charged up you think everyone is an enemy.

The fact that theyre targeting minorities and trying to effectively gerrymander with peoples rights to vote is terrible, I was mistaken for actually believing it was about potential voter fraud. After all, not everyone in this country can vote, requiring ID to me made sense. I didn't realize they were actively trying to keep people from getting IDs and targeting specific regions and stuff like that. If this really was about requiring some form of ID to prove youre the registered US citizen with a right to vote and I thought that didnt sound so bad, would I really be so wrong? The whole point is this thing is not plain sight...theyre covertly trying to tilt things in their favor politically, not enforce actually any sort of voter ID laws. I didnt get that
 

jmood88

Member
"Plain sight" is voter fraud as the issue. It being "explicitly" racist and there being more context and hidden agendas is not plain sight. You happen to be more informed and passionate about this issue than me, I'd appreciate it if you gave me the benefit of the doubt and explained the issues behind it than just re-paraphrase my post as

"in spite of all the obvious im making stuff up cuz derp"

I bet there was a time that you didn't know about the nuances of "voter fraud"

Just saying. Dont be so charged up you think everyone is an enemy
"Plain sight" as in the first fucking sentence in the first post of thread says that law was ruled to have been created to intentionally disenfranchise black voters.
 

gcubed

Member
https://thinkprogress.org/breaking-...ion-law-in-the-nation-7de6c6fa9a6d#.qmn0c9hka



Summary: North Carolina basically did some studies on voting habits (on record), figured out the different ways black people vote or register to vote, and intentionally fucked over those specific ways of voting. They got caught.

The problem I have is that the ruling from the federal court didn't put them on preclearance... With all the facts of this case, there could be no argument why NC WOULDN'T be put on preclearance
 
"Plain sight" is voter fraud as the issue. It being "explicitly" racist and there being more context and hidden agendas is not plain sight. You happen to be more informed and passionate about this issue than me, I'd appreciate it if you gave me the benefit of the doubt and explained the issues behind it than just re-paraphrase my post as

"in spite of all the obvious im making stuff up cuz derp"

I bet there was a time that you didn't know about the nuances of "voter fraud"

Just saying. Dont be so charged up you think everyone is an enemy

The supreme Court has already declared this as being both Racist and Unconstitutional. Voter fraud is basically a non-issue as well. Both were in the OP.

Not sure what else you want to hear.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Doesn't North Carolina typically vote red? Why are these laws (that have been admittedly used to decrease the black vote) such an issue?

I mean, there's more races than just President so...I think I just answered my own question.

No. They were solidly blue until Democratic apathy in 2010 sweeped the nation.
 

Pluto

Member
Needing a picture ID to vote is ridiculous, that's not required here (germany) and it's not required in the US.
 

Kyzer

Banned
"Plain sight" as in the first fucking sentence in the first post of thread says that law was ruled to have been created to intentionally disenfranchise black voters.

If was a snake it would have bit him

I had no idea about the actual history of " voter ID laws" and dove into the general concept. I look like an idiot, and Ima take this loss as boldly as I can
 

Kusagari

Member
No. They were solidly blue until Democratic apathy in 2010 sweeped the nation.

Uhh, no? They barely went for Obama in his 08 landslide after being red for decades. The state is a swing state now, and will likely go blue this year thanks to Trump, but it's still more on the lean red spectrum.
 

mclem

Member
I'd like that to happen, but it's likelier to go 4-4 and uphold the recent lower court ruling. Which, yeah, it'll stop their Voter ID law, but won't fix the problem for everyone else, I don't think.

The ruling isn't the important bit - well, provided it's not in favour! - the important bit is a public hearing calling this out. Make them argue that case in front of justices who will not take their bullshit.
 
No. They were solidly blue until Democratic apathy in 2010 sweeped the nation.
*Blue at the state level. 2008 was anomalous at the federal level.

But yeah, Democratic apathy and fervent Obama backlash ousted the (pretty shitty and incompetent) Democrats from power at the state level. And then the Republicans got to do the next major redistricting (read: gerrymandering). And now here we are.

How North Carolina Turned Red So Fast
 

daveo42

Banned
Heard this on my way to work this morning. Oh no...the confusion of having more days and no ID to vote! Think of how that will affect voters! LOL yeah right.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Uhh, no? They barely went for Obama in his 08 landslide after being red for decades. The state is a swing state now, and will likely go blue this year thanks to Trump, but it's still more on the lean red spectrum.

Well... It's legislature was blue, anyway.
 

platocplx

Member
Voter Fraud isnt an issue, if you even have a simple understanding of the logistics it would take for some one to even try and do so its insane to think anyone could totally get away with it, without direct access to ballots.

seedy Individuals voting multiple times is not an issue which they keep trying to say is the reason.

Literally you would need thousands of people to even attempt this. its freaking ridiculous what republicans come up with to disenfranchise people instead of trying to come up with good solutions that are inclusive.
 

Elandyll

Banned
Damn NC Republicans... are you trying to be this obvious?

I'm sure the latest polls also kinda lit a fire over there...
 

Gattsu25

Banned
Could someone explain the underlying issue for me, as I have never delved into what this is all about? They are requiring ID, and some groups of people don't have ID?

How do you vote otherwise, do you get some form of paper sent to you?
In the case of North Carolina it's pretty blatant.


Immediately after the Republicans on the Supreme Court voted to gut the voters rights act, arguing that racism no longer existed in a post-Obama America, North Carolina expressed it's intent to pass a new law limiting voting rights.
The state asked for data on how black people voted, got that data, and then passed a massive law that restricted or limited only those methods of voting that were more common amongst black voters.




http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/court-north-carolina-voter-id-law-targeted-black-voters/
In 2013, in Shelby v. Holder, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned a section of the Voting Rights Act that required North Carolina and other states with a history of voter discrimination to submit any voting-law changes to the federal government for approval.

A day after the Shelby decision, Republican lawmakers in North Carolina announced plans for an election law that, the federal appeals court has since found, restricted voting and registration in several ways, “all of which disproportionately affected African Americans.”

The court said that in crafting the law, the Republican-controlled general assembly requested and received data on voters’ use of various voting practices by race. It found that African American voters in North Carolina are more likely to vote early, use same-day voter registration and straight-ticket voting. They were also disproportionately less likely to have an ID, more likely to cast a provisional ballot and take advantage of pre-registration.

Then, the court, said, lawmakers restricted all of these voting options, and further narrowed the list of acceptable voter IDs. “… [W]ith race data in hand, the legislature amended the bill to exclude many of the alternative photo IDs used by African Americans. As amended, the bill retained only the kinds of IDs that white North Carolinians were more likely to possess.”​
 

Kyzer

Banned
The supreme Court has already declared this as being both Racist and Unconstitutional. Voter fraud is basically a non-issue as well. Both were in the OP.

Not sure what else you want to hear.

Yeah I understand that but I still didn't see the problem with the idea of requiring IDs in general, but I see that they gerrymander with these laws and actively try to keep people from getting IDs on top of that, which im sure is part of the whole explicit racism thing, which is probably what the supreme court saw, it all ties together. I didnt know that literally the entire concept of voter fraud across the country was purely a vessel for red states and racism, basically.
 

forms

Member
In the case of North Carolina it's pretty blatant.


Immediately after the supreme Court voted to gut the voters rights act, arguing that racism no longer existed in a post-Obama America, North Carolina expressed it's intent to pass a new law limiting voting rights.
The state asked for data on how black people voted, got that data, and then passed a massive law that restricted or limited only those methods of voting that were more common amongst black voters.

Wow, that is absurdly disgusting.
 

Toxi

Banned
In the case of North Carolina it's pretty blatant.

Immediately after the Republicans on the Supreme Court voted to gut the voters rights act, arguing that racism no longer existed in a post-Obama America, North Carolina expressed it's intent to pass a new law limiting voting rights.
The state asked for data on how black people voted, got that data, and then passed a massive law that restricted or limited only those methods of voting that were more common amongst black voters.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/court-north-carolina-voter-id-law-targeted-black-voters/
Fun fact: Shelby County v Holder was a 5-4 decision.

And people wonder why the Dems getting Supreme Court justices is so fucking important.
 

witness

Member
I am sure our liberal friends in NC will reward their republican lead state for their efforts to keep them from voting come November. After all the shit that they've done there recently, I'm sure it will be very vindicating for resident democrats to turn that state blue again. Work hard guys to get people out to vote!
 
Yeah I understand that but I still didn't see the problem with the idea of requiring IDs in general, but I see that they gerrymander with these laws and actively try to keep people from getting IDs on top of that, which im sure is part of the whole explicit racism thing, which is probably what the supreme court saw, it all ties together. I didnt know that literally the entire concept of voter fraud across the country was purely a vessel for red states and racism, basically.

Yeah a lot of US laws have a similar purpose. Criminalization of Marijuana, etc. Glad you were willing to do some research!

Fun fact: Shelby County v Holder was a 5-4 decision.

And people wonder why the Dems getting Supreme Court justices is so fucking important.

I wonder who broke that tie, and if he's in a certain place right about now trying to defend his sins.
 

The Kree

Banned
Treating people decently is too much work. It's somehow easier for them to shit on civil liberties. Ain't that something?
 

Future

Member
It takes a lot of ego to ask a federal court to reinstate policies that was proven to be racist as if they won't see the unconstitutionality of it all

That's the amazing thing. Laws deemed racist by the highest court. Officials want to bring back laws just because
 

Future

Member
Previous ruling from that pbs article btw

the court said that in crafting the law, the Republican-controlled general assembly requested and received data on voters’ use of various voting practices by race. It found that African American voters in North Carolina are more likely to vote early, use same-day voter registration and straight-ticket voting. They were also disproportionately less likely to have an ID, more likely to cast a provisional ballot and take advantage of pre-registration.

Then, the court, said, lawmakers restricted all of these voting options, and further narrowed the list of acceptable voter IDs. “… [W]ith race data in hand, the legislature amended the bill to exclude many of the alternative photo IDs used by African Americans. As amended, the bill retained only the kinds of IDs that white North Carolinians were more likely to possess.”

The state offered little justification for the law, the court said. Those who defended the law said they were doing so to prevent voter fraud. “Although the new provisions target African Americans with almost surgical precision, they constitute inapt remedies for the problems assertedly justifying them and, in fact, impose cures for problems that did not exist,” the court said.

I pray there is no defense force for this on GAF
 

jmood88

Member
Previous ruling from that pbs article btw



I pray there is no defense force for this on GAF
I haven't seen people defend it but I have seen people go out of their way to make sure that they don't read about what actually happened and keep talking about voter IDs as an abstract concept.
 

Dryk

Member
Needing a picture ID to vote is ridiculous, that's not required here (germany) and it's not required in the US.
It creates way more problems that it solves. Even in a perfect world where everyone has an ID it's a huge waste of money because voter fraud is such a non-issue.
 

jwhit28

Member
I think the current climate is so bad in NC because the Republicans feel the pressure of the state flipping from red to blue. They are very desperate and I think we are getting to the point where Charlotte, The Triangle, and FT Bragg can carry the state by themselves.
 
I saw that Wisconsin were able to reinstate theirs. It doesnt matter it will not be enough to save them. Winter is coming motherfuckers.
 
It was crazy that the Federal court didn't put the state on VRA preclearance.

Also this is all about Burr and the NC General Assembly majorities. The state GOP DGAF about McRory or Trump. The gerrymandering for General Assembly seats walks a knife edge on margins and made some demographic assumptions that are starting to fall apart. Getting this law back in place would help mitigate that somewhat.
 

Condom

Member
Needing a picture ID to vote is ridiculous, that's not required here (germany) and it's not required in the US.
It is required in the Netherlands and people have to pay for the ID themselves.

There was some legal discussion about having to pay for your own ID but the state won in the end.

I think having identification as a requirement is good but the state should make sure that 99%+ of the eligible people that want one should be able to get one. Which is only possible if you don't have a shit tier public system so that rules out most countries in the world.

Edit: By the way, can't they just have a digital system with people's picture/fingerprint? AFAIK they check your registration on iPads here besides ID verification. Although there might be some privacy concerns.
 

Tacitus_

Member
I haven't seen people defend it but I have seen people go out of their way to make sure that they don't read about what actually happened and keep talking about voter IDs as an abstract concept.

This is an international forum and there are places where having a photo id to vote is absolutely normal. When I go to vote, I just show my id to the people manning the polls, they scan it and I vote and I'm out in a couple of minutes. Handy as hell.

Too bad that in the US having such a system seems to be mostly to repress poor & minority voters.
 

jwhit28

Member
If NC's ID law was only about needing an ID, and included college IDs maybe they would have got away with it. They got greedy and tried to kill polls at universities, tried to cut early voting time in half, tried to kill same day registration with or without ID, tried to remove straight ticket voting options and list candidates in order of party of the governor (so the first selection in each race is Republican this election), tried to kill voter registration programs for high school students, and get rid of voting on Sunday when a lot of churches all go vote together.
 
What's the "supposed" endgame, here? What's the justification for cutting early voting and closing poll centers across the state? To the uninitiated, sure, their argument for a photo ID to vote is a sound one -- it seems like a good justification (even though we all know that's not what it's about). But the rest of it...isn't. Less early voting and fewer polling stations will never help against voter fraud, which never really existed in the first place.

I'm just sort of confused by this entire thing. What excuse can they possibly have for sloughing off one of their only responsibilities that doesn't make them seem like classist, racist, dickbags?

Have you seen the John Oliver segment?
 

jmood88

Member
This is an international forum and there are places where having a photo id to vote is absolutely normal. When I go to vote, I just show my id to the people manning the polls, they scan it and I vote and I'm out in a couple of minutes. Handy as hell.

Too bad that in the US having such a system seems to be mostly to repress poor & minority voters.
I understand that, however, people still talk about how they just don't get why it's an issue despite the opening post in threads like having excerpts that explain exactly what the problem is.
 
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