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[A Human Becoming]

55k? That can't be fucking right. That's way below the Pachter and EEDAR expectations.

 

[brochiller]

Nintendo would have sold a lot more if they had just release a Wii HD. Incremental improvements for the same price as the Wii.

I think so to. Maybe if they would have just tweaked the Wii Remote and nunchuck a bit and given the option to play with a Pro Controller while investing in graphical technology instead of a controller with a screen, they would be better off.

Then again I have a Wii U and love the screen on the controller. So I'm torn.

 

[paolo11]

What's the sales numbers for DmC?

 

[Raist]

I seriously wonder what's going on at Nintendo right now.

 

[artist]

Can't do the math right now, but Wii U has a higher raw $ in sales revenue at ~$325 @55k than GCN at $199 @79k.

Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
(Today, 08:56 PM)

Now it can read "sold 55k in 5 weeks"

 

[MikeE21286]

No, there's a blu-ray drive alright

It's not blu ray.

It's a proprietary disc format.

http://www.t3.com/news/nintendo-wii-u-not-compatible-with-blu-ray-or-dvd

 

[Gahiggidy]

Nintendo would have sold a lot more if they had just release a Wii HD. Incremental improvements for the same price as the Wii.

Miiverse is not possible without the Gamepad.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Look, the PS4/next Xbox will likely have a software drought right after their launch as well. It's natural for a platform. Plus, we still have most of the big titles for this year coming out for the PS3/360, not launch titles.

@bolded: No way to know that yet lol It entirely depends on how ready they are

 

[airmangataosenai]

Fairly sure Nintendo announced sometime that the Wii U was earning them more revenue (not necessarily profit) than the Wii did.

More revenue per console simply refers to the console being more expensive. The 3DO produced more revenue per unit than the Wii too.

 

[Coolwhip]

So I guess a thread on discussing how Wii U ended up here and what could have been done different isn't allowed.

I'll summarize here then..

The Wii U isn't targetted at a big audience right now. It tries to get ps360 owners interested but in a halfassed way. And it leaves behind what made Wii big. Simple motion control games and a low price.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Anakin brought balance to the force by slaughtering the Jedi. The younglings, for crying out loud. Perhaps this is the balance you were searching for.

Balance to the force is having all sith dead, according to Lucas.

 

[Azure J]

I love the Wii U....but Nintendo probably should have gone for lower tech. No costly controller, no blu ray drive .

Something like the Ouya would have been a safer bet (maybe with a slot for games sold on SD cards like the 3DS..to keep retail happy).

Nintendo just don't have a cool enough image to sell something for more that $200 in the current climate.

It has zero to do with climate and everything to do with value proposition and to a slightly lesser degree, perception. Nintendo didn't come right out with bold confidence and say "this is next-generation." Nintendo didn't match the basics of non-technical feature sets with their account system being a mash up of good intentions married to the most asinine hard reality (actual accounts [yay!] tied to hardware [...le fuck?]). Nintendo's flagship was a game that (while we could tell the difference being avid gamers) resembled a hit from 2010 and comes in a genre that (unfairly) gets ragged on for being "easily made"/"cheap". Third parties were nowhere to be found. The ones that showed up threw things at the system that were prominent months before on consoles that have been there, done that. The immediate draw to the system, the game pad, has no way of easily being expressed to someone who doesn't care for/has made up their mind on games and replaces the phenomena that set the world ablaze from a single demonstration.

 

[shinra-bansho]

GCN, no question. Had bigger third-party exclusives (if only from Capcom), and it continued to get a large percentage of multiplats until late in its lifespan.

Most definitely. People have selective memory about the Gamecube, but the fact is, it had very good 3rd party support for the first few years. Almost everything was PS2/Gamecube/Xbox - even listed in that order back then, most of the time.

Interesting. I guess it's just the image Sony built around the PS2 as being the home of all these games as well as having certain exclusives that create the perception for GCN.

At any rate, all the more reason I see this more as a systemic problem that releasing a Mario Kart game won't be a quick fix for.

Third parties look to be jumping ship already - and rightly so given these sales.

 

[allan-bh]

NPD Group silenced creamsugar?

 

[metalslimer]

Motion and fitness where just the gateway mechanism. It seems Wii was based on getting people who didn't usually play games to play games - whatever kinds of games those might be.

There were a lot of theories about why lots of people exposed to computers, technology, and games, didn't play games. Were games too intimidating? Had interfaces gotten too complex? Did they take too long to play a session? Did the themes and stylization turn off the mainstream person? Were controllers too complex or uncomfortable for the uninitiated?

The Wii was very inviting and had an obviousness about it. The wiimote was designed to mimic both a TV remote, and a NES controller. Two super familiar items that pop-culture is familiar with and nobody is afraid of. Wii Sports was essentially what later smartphone games and tablet games would be - pick up and play, easy to understand, often with a social aspect, and colorful simple visuals with a clear interface. Very self-explanatory in terms of how to play it.

In a sense, it could also have been a content problem. Mobile games, social games, tablet games, exploded overnight and offered the mainstream plenty of friendly games that were already on a device many people had or desired for multiple uses. (Being cheap didn't hurt, but was maybe just a bonus.) One mistake Nintendo made with Wii IMO is that they stopped releasing a steady stream of those "blue ocean" games. After Wii Sports Resort, things just died off. Wii Party was an anemic, un-exciting final entry in the "Wii activity" series. In this sense, Nintendo's inadequate digital ecosystem may have helped do Wii in. They couldn't compete with the multiplying library of accessible blue ocean games showing up in the new mobile market. They didn't have a good delivery system for them, even if the games had gotten made.

To be fair, the DS also benefited from discovering some of this new market as well, thanks to its games such as Brain Training. It got a big boost. However, the DS still had one leg in the former handheld gaming market, a market that didn't completely erode with the rise of smartphone mobile gaming - at least in Japan. So the successor to the DS is not flopping once it got the software out there.

More general remarks -

IMO, Nintendo may have seen themselves as stuck with how to follow up the Wii. Wading into the red ocean of high dollar enthusiast game consoles and trying to find parity with Sony and MS may have been unappealing due to how much it would cost with so much danger of ending up with Gamecube II and nothing to show for it. On the other hand, following the Wii up involved trying to see if there was a way to appeal to people who might still be attracted to a revitalized Wii concept. There's a pretty obvious reason why Wii U didn't abandon motion control, the wiimote, and even accessories like the balance board. Nintendo brought those things forward with them to the next generation to continue working with them.

So in this sense Nintendo did exactly what was stated at the original unveiling of Wii U: tried to make a platform that was situated halfway between the "blue ocean" customer and the so-called core or "hardcore" game player. In terms of abstract, noble theory, perhaps it is not a bad idea, especially if you truly believe you cannot survive by copying what someone else is doing (like Microsoft, or Sony, or abandoning your own mobile platform and just going iOS).

In practice, as things stand it may have been a failed bet. Or perhaps they can squeak out something as happened with the 3DS.

The one thing that I think is silly though, and seriously projecting, is the common talk that goes "Well good! This horrible failure will break Nintendo of their arrogance!"

I honestly don't think it's arrogance. People project this onto Nintendo because they feel offended that someone makes a gaming product that doesn't measure up to their ideals and desires. Weirdly enough, this disappointment morphs into anger and the assumption that someone is trying to offend them. I rather think Nintendo's behavior is the result of the problem they've had for 15+ years finally coming to a head, as they try to figure out how to survive in some form that doesn't involve abandoning much of what they do.

Ironically enough, if you want to call them arrogant, I think you must go back in time to the dawn of the N64. That is when Nintendo made a huge mistake, very possibly out of some degree of pure arrogance or at least unwise confidence, and the N64 generation is when Nintendo truly got humbled. Maybe a lot of folks don't see this because they, in a personal sense, have beloved childhood memories of stuff like the N64 and the Gamecube. So history is framed to make those the golden years when Nintendo was right with the world. It wasn't. For people like me, already adults coming out of the SNES era, the N64 was seen as very problematic and got pretty bad by the end of its generation.

Great post, but if the Wii U is Nintendo's problems skipping a gen with the Wii to finally come back and haunt them the Wii U is headed for a disaster just as the next Nintendo console would have had they made another Gamecube.

 

[AzaK]

Wii U wasn't a risk. It was an incredibly safe system, trying to just merge the Wii and DS in to one system while offering the benefits of an iPad.

Simply put, Nintendo lost all their forward thinking and the innovative mindset that helped Wii and DS become so huge. They released a lazy, poorly thought out product.

Nope, it's actually a great product, it's just lacking games for whatever reason.

I also agree with Kaijima and have stated it before myself. I think Wii U is just the culmination of something started back in the N64 days.

 

[Tobor]

Miiverse is not possible without the Gamepad.

A glorified message board isn't going to save the day.

 

[DashReindeer]

I am quite saddened by all if this. Not just as a Nintendo fan, but as a fan of console games in general. While Nintendo's bad sales can't specifically be tied to the decline of console gaming, I have a feeling that the xbox and ps4 will meet similarly tepid receptions.

The industry changed drastically last generation and sadly none of that change involved the big 3 console manufacturers. I'm honestly scared that mobile and f2p gaming will cause an industry-wide crash.

 

[crazy monkey]

moving to complicated controls and leaving the idea of wii was such a bad idea. wii was such an amazing system.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Wow, just a couple days we were speculating about how bad the Wedbush/EEDAR numbers of 110K to 125K looked and what that met. I would have never guessed that not only were those projections high, but double what would happen. Again, wow.

 

[1-D_FTW]

55k? That can't be fucking right. That's way below what Pachter and EEDAR expectations.

Bolded so you can reread what you just wrote. Shocking, or should we have known this was coming?

 

[Bullza2o]

They can't afford this thing selling the way it is now, but they cannot afford to lose $100+ per unit on this device. That kind of money would be much better invested elsewhere.

I know. I actually was about to buy a basic set recently, but now I'm definitely just going to buy it this holiday with Zelda.

As much as I would love to buy a Wii U, I keep delaying my purchase partly because of the 3DS and its recently announced games. Also, I'm buying an XL when new good colors come out.

 

[brochiller]

If the 55K number isn't true... surely we will hear from some outlet confirming it's BS right?

 

[BassForever]

The "Big" titles like your Call of Duty, Ass Creed, Madden, Fifa and the rest are never far away. Within six months any new console will have 99% of the gaming population covered.

They just need to make a "choice" that one or the other is the home for online play for that game

Wiiu has those games too though, and I don't think we'll see the 360/ps3 not get those for at least 2 years. Like with Rayman legends if you're a third party company there is no financial reason to make a truly next gen exclusive for awhile with how much more its going to cost to make games for the nextbox and ps4. Will the masses see enought of a reason to pay 400+ dollar systems for 60 dollar games when there iphone/pad/pc can play similar games for 1-15 dollars?

 

[Liquid_Bike]

NPD Group silenced creamsugar?

More like hot valentines day date!

 

[Aquamarine]

If the 55K number isn't true... surely we will hear from some outlet confirming it's BS right?

If everyone stays silent about the Wii U number, it's true.

All we know for sure is that it's "way below 100K."

 

[Version 3.0]

For people like me, already adults coming out of the SNES era, the N64 was seen as very problematic and got pretty bad by the end of its generation.

I'm in the same boat, but their problem then was, in fact, the same as their problem now. And it is either arrogance or ignorance. They thought then, and think now, that their system doesn't need strong 3rd party support. Either that, or they don't have any idea how to get said support.

 

[udivision]

So I guess a thread on discussing how Wii U ended up here and what could have been done different isn't allowed.

I'll summarize here then..

The Wii U isn't targetted at a big audience right now. It tries to get ps360 owners interested but in a halfassed way. And it leaves behind what made Wii big. Simple motion control games and a low price.

I don't think the same trick would've worked twice, considering how the Wii fell off.

 

[Anth0ny]

holy fucking shit 55k

 

[Mandoric]

It's not blu ray.

It's a proprietary disc format.

http://www.t3.com/news/nintendo-wii-u-not-compatible-with-blu-ray-or-dvd

In about the same way that the Wii was a proprietary format and not a DVD, namely, it's a DVD but by not loading playback software on they save $10 a unit in licensing fees.

This is also why Xbox skipped DVD support unless you bought the $30 dongle.

 

[Baconsammy]

So I guess a thread on discussing how Wii U ended up here and what could have been done different isn't allowed.

I'll summarize here then..

The Wii U isn't targetted at a big audience right now. It tries to get ps360 owners interested but in a halfassed way. And it leaves behind what made Wii big. Simple motion control games and a low price.

Uhhhhhhh. It's targeted at everyone that owned a Wii. I'd say that's a substantial target.

 

[PhantomR]

Probably one person which means "some". And no difference.

Got it.



As far as this is concerned...these sales numbers aren't official. With that said, if they are...


I'm not that concerned. And I'm a pretty ultra-hardcore Nintendo fan. I would only be concerned and pissed off it there was no software coming down the horizon. March, for instance. SO LONG AS NOA MARKETING DOESN'T FUCK IT UP, Lego City Undercover is going to move some systems. It's a big time title and it's going to draw in a lot of the younger crowd also that Activision has been concerned about with Wii U. What really needs to happen more than anything else, is more 1st party output. Look at 3DS. The lineup for that system looks crazy ridiculous so far this year. Why? 1st party content. Yes there are some gems like Castlevania, but the big hitters that are going to be moving systems are the first party bombs.


Same thing needs to happen with Wii U. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Wii U's success will depend on:

1.) Stronger, MORE EXPANDED first party content
2.) Japanese publisher support
3.) Western Indie development support


That's the golden ticket. I will call for Iwata-San to be fired if he does not invest in and expand console 1st party software development. But I have trust in him to do what is staring him in the face. Nintendo already used this playbook with the N64 with software from NCL and from Rare, and managed to do pretty well against a very dominant Playstation brand. It's time, man.

 

[GraveRobberX]

More like hot valentines day date!

So his cream is getting sugared on someone?

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Wow, just a couple days we were speculating about how bad the Wedbush/EEDAR numbers of 110K to 125K looked and what that met. I would have never guessed that not only were those projections high, but double what would happen. Again, wow.

Well it was Patcher, so we knew it was either TWICE that number, or half that number.

 

[Version 3.0]

Interesting. I guess it's just the image Sony built around the PS2 as being the home of all these games as well as having certain exclusives that create the perception for GCN.

At any rate, all the more reason I see this more as a systemic problem that releasing a Mario Kart game won't be a quick fix for.

Third parties look to be jumping ship already - and rightly so given these sales.

3rd parties were never on the ship, which is a big part of the reason for these sales.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Nintendo should start considering the Pro Controller replacing the GamePad so they can hit $199.

 

[Striek]

55k? That can't be fucking right. That's way below what Pachter and EEDAR expectations.

Those expectations are really not more worthwhile than your random gaffers though.

Definitely lowballed the X360 too, and highly likely lowballed the PS3/Wii as well.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Bolded so you can reread what you just wrote. Shocking, or should we have known this was coming?

Even GAF predicted it around the same amount they did: 118K. 118k wouldn't be a great number either. 55k is fucking Vita levels.

 

[Portugeezer]

Was going to buy a Wii U next month, now I'm not so sure. Big price drop may come, or system might dreamcast.

 

[SabinFigaro]

God, I don't normally do this, but here goes.

I generally consider myself a Nintendo fan, having bought all their consoles at launch since the N64, due to the strength of their first-party output. I honestly don't care about specs, to a degree. I have a Wii, and I have quite enough games to have made the purchase worthwhile. I also have a PS3, where I could get my Sony first-party and other third-party exclusives.

With regards to the Wii, I could handle the perceived weaknessess. I thought devs did a really neat job with the system, and happily enjoyed third party offerings like A Boy and His Blob, MadWorld, Muramasa and Sin & Punishment. I snapped up the RPGs like The Last Story and Xenoblade, and have Pandora's Tower on reserve. This is in addition to Nintendo's amazing first-party output, which I have found to be their best in many years. All in all, I bought around 40 pieces of software, which is a significant amount for me, given my lack of free time and playing on other consoles. People bitch and moan about Wii software, but I found it more than adequate. Granted, the DS was the true king of last gen, but that's a different story.

I could tolerate the lackluster online infrastructure, as I primarily play PC online (or not at all). I also thought the VC was an amazing feature, in theory, as it quickly languished without support. These were Nintendo's training steps, after all.

This month, I did not buy a WiiU, I bought an Xbox 360. I own very few games so far, but I love XBLA and the significant library. I got the system (250 GB) for $149.95. I am at a complete and utter loss at how Nintendo has managed to fuck this one up. The reasons are varied and mentioned throughout this thread, but some that are relevant to me include the vast disparity of price and technology. The gamepad is neat, but doesn't justify keeping your specs at (or lower) than current generation. The online is still shit, and I am flabbergasted at the lack of a unified account system. Why the hell would I ever pay a "fee" to transfer VC games I already own? Why is the entire library not available?

And the worst, did you learn nothing from the 3DS launch? Virtually no games, at an exorbitant price. Will a price cut and Ambassador program even help at this point? I don't know. Smash Bros. and Mario Kart will provide the "bump", but I'm still not convinced that Nintendo has learned anything in the console market.

I will continue to use, and love, my 3DS. It truly is a great little system, at a great price point, with a pretty amazing and expanding library. I just don't have the same trust for Nintendo in the console space at the current time, and as a long-time Nintendo fan, it hurts to say that.

 

[Raist]

Uhhhhhhh. It's targeted at everyone that owned a Wii. I'd say that's a substantial target.

No. It's a half-assed attempt at targeting to people who bought a Wii and core gamers and people buying Ipads just because.

 

[Coolwhip]

I don't think the same trick would've worked twice, considering how the Wii fell off.

Nintendo let the Wii die though, they stopped releasing games and didn't keep those casual gamers interested. Working on fixing that makes more sense than trying another gimmick. Especially if that gimmick makes your console 350 bucks.

 

[toddhunter]

Uhhhhhhh. It's targeted at everyone that owned a Wii. I'd say that's a substantial target.

I think the issue is a lot of people didn't buy a wii, they bought wii sports or wii fit.

So yeah, the WiiU is targeted at those people, but not well enough to date.

 

[Futureman]

I will love and cherish my Wii U if it's the last Nintendo home console. That would be sweet if Nintendo eventually got it to the point where you could play every Nintendo game ever on a Wii U.

 

[Baconsammy]

Nintendo should start considering the Pro Controller replacing the GamePad so they can hit $199.

Sure, right after they consider moving the right stick back down below the buttons where it should be, and make the triggers analog.

I think the issue is a lot of people didn't buy a wii, they bought wii sports or wii fit.

So yeah, the WiiU is targeted at those people, but not well enough to date.

I agree. I think Nintendo's thinking goes something like, "We sold the Wii based on waggle, and we'll sell the Wii U based off of the Gamepad." No one was doing waggle back then, but everyone is doing tablets now. It was a pretty odd gamble. If they didn't also combine that with 8 year old tech, they might be doing a lot better now being the first truly next gen console out of the gate.

 

[MikeE21286]

In about the same way that the Wii was a proprietary format and not a DVD, namely, it's a DVD but by not loading playback software on they save $10 a unit in licensing fees.

I completely understand that. The fact that its not "blu ray" is a key distinction though.

The BOM increases don't come from things such as that though, as the original poster I quoted was alluding to, they come from the controller.

 

[metalslimer]

Got it.



As far as this is concerned...these sales numbers aren't official. With that said, if they are...


I'm not that concerned. And I'm a pretty ultra-hardcore Nintendo fan. I would only be concerned and pissed off it there was no software coming down the horizon. March, for instance. SO LONG AS NOA MARKETING DOESN'T FUCK IT UP, Lego City Undercover is going to move some systems. It's a big time title and it's going to draw in a lot of the younger crowd also that Activision has been concerned about with Wii U. What really needs to happen more than anything else, is more 1st party output. Look at 3DS. The lineup for that system looks crazy ridiculous so far this year. Why? 1st party content. Yes there are some gems like Castlevania, but the big hitters that are going to be moving systems are the first party bombs.


Same thing needs to happen with Wii U. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Wii U's success will depend on:

1.) Stronger, MORE EXPANDED first party content
2.) Japanese publisher support
3.) Western Indie development support


That's the golden ticket. I will call for Iwata-San to be fired if he does not invest in and expand console 1st party software development. But I have trust in him to do what is staring him in the face. Nintendo already used this playbook with the N64 with software from NCL and from Rare, and managed to do pretty well against a very dominant Playstation brand. It's time, man.

I'll ask again but do you really think Lego City will draw in people Mario couldn't? Lego City is going to sell to current audience Wii u already has. There are a shit ton of Lego games out there. Hell the 3DS version will probably draw those kids in to the cheaper system. That's the problem with Wii U right now. There is nothing big to actually bring a lot of people in and stuff like Lego City and Monster Hunter doesn't change that

 

[I-hate-u]

The Wii came out in a time were everyone knew that there is a new console transition because all three manufacturers where releasing new hardware at the same time. So even if it was weaker than PS3/360, people thought of it as a true generation leap and sold a butt load.

This time around, the next generation starts when Sony and MS say so.

 

[Version 3.0]

This is also why Xbox skipped DVD support unless you bought the $30 dongle.

And that was genius. Nintendo could've gone one better: download the Blu-Ray movie player for $10 right off the E-shop.

 

[Mileena]

I am quite saddened by all if this. Not just as a Nintendo fan, but as a fan of console games in general. While Nintendo's bad sales can't specifically be tied to the decline of console gaming, I have a feeling that the xbox and ps4 will meet similarly tepid receptions.

The industry changed drastically last generation and sadly none of that change involved the big 3 console manufacturers. I'm honestly scared that mobile and f2p gaming will cause an industry-wide crash.

You may be right if they don't have a $399 SKU. I could easily see both MS and Sony launching their gimp models at that price though, with the 1337 models being $500+

I hope