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NPD January 2013 Sales Results [Up7: Wii U 57K (CNET), Vita ~35K, PS3 201K]

Yeah, I can't wait to see what Retro is doing though. Maybe they'll be making just the type of attention grabbing game I'm talking about?

Now, just for a moment I think an exercise might be interesting:

Do we think this state of Wii U is purely going to be representative of the failings of Nintendo, or do you think PS4 and Xbox 720 might do the same? Might we be seeing the first true sign of what awaits the industry in a few months? Why or why not?

I feel like we're going to see PS4 and Xbox 3 struggle too. Not as badly as Nintendo currently is, though.
Microsoft, I suspect will kill the Xbox by 1) using anti-consumer implementations like the always on feature, and 2) They're going to try and turn it into a media machine... and they're REALLY not good at that stuff, despite what Metro proponents will tell you. They'll come out of the gate strong, due to the 360. But I'll bet within 18 months they'll have fallen off. Especially if Apple gets iOS on TV screens. Basically, they're going to fall victim to the same forces that brought down the Wii.

And Sony... they just can't seem to pull their head out of their ass. PS4 might very well wind up winning next generation, though. It feels like they really only lucked out with the PS3's relative success after the massive failure and struggles they had at launch. If it weren't for the multiplat ports, they'd be dead now.

I can't put my finger on it exactly, but it just feels like we've moved/are moving into a new era of gaming where consoles aren't what people are looking for any more/much longer.
 

1-D_FTW

Member
Even GAF predicted it around the same amount they did: 118K. 118k wouldn't be a great number either. 55k is fucking Vita levels.

It was a reasonable prediction, I'll grant you. But in hindsight, it probably should have sent our spider sense tingling. When the Antistradamus talks, we need to listen.
 
Got it.



As far as this is concerned...these sales numbers aren't official. With that said, if they are...


I'm not that concerned. And I'm a pretty ultra-hardcore Nintendo fan. I would only be concerned and pissed off it there was no software coming down the horizon. March, for instance. SO LONG AS NOA MARKETING DOESN'T FUCK IT UP, Lego City Undercover is going to move some systems. It's a big time title and it's going to draw in a lot of the younger crowd also that Activision has been concerned about with Wii U. What really needs to happen more than anything else, is more 1st party output. Look at 3DS. The lineup for that system looks crazy ridiculous so far this year. Why? 1st party content. Yes there are some gems like Castlevania, but the big hitters that are going to be moving systems are the first party bombs.


Same thing needs to happen with Wii U. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Wii U's success will depend on:

1.) Stronger, MORE EXPANDED first party content
2.) Japanese publisher support
3.) Western Indie development support


That's the golden ticket. I will call for Iwata-San to be fired if he does not invest in and expand console 1st party software development. But I have trust in him to do what is staring him in the face. Nintendo already used this playbook with the N64 with software from NCL and from Rare, and managed to do pretty well against a very dominant Playstation brand. It's time, man.

Great post. It's all about the software. Look at 3DS. It was struggling to sell hardware for a long time and people were claiming it was dead, but then it got GAMES.

I love how people jump to conclusions here and say that Wii U is dead because it is a failure conceptually. A console could have an amazing hook to it, but if it doesn't have the games it is not going to sell. The Wii U simply doesn't have the games yet. If it is still selling this poorly in 6 months time then it is time to be concerned.
 

serplux

Member
Sure, right after they consider moving the right stick back down below the buttons where it should be, and make the triggers analog.

Agree with the triggers, but I don't understand the dislike for the right analog placement. It's just different, not worse, not better.
 
And that was genius. Nintendo could've gone one better: download the Blu-Ray movie player for $10 right off the E-shop.

In all reality I wonder how feasible that was. I know it is quite similar to Bluray, but with the rounded disc edges I feel like Nintendo may have changed a little too much to be able to add codec support for Bluray
 
In all reality I wonder how feasible that was. I know it is quite similar to Bluray, but with the rounded disc edges I feel like Nintendo may have changed a little too much to be able to add codec support for Bluray

That's not a question of how feasible it WAS - they could have done it if they wanted to. That's a question of whether it's still feasible. Personally, I bet it still could be done. In fact, I bet it will be done - by hackers, not by Nintendo. You can play DVDs on the Wii that way.
 
So I guess a thread on discussing how Wii U ended up here and what could have been done different isn't allowed.

I'll summarize here then..

The Wii U isn't targetted at a big audience right now. It tries to get ps360 owners interested but in a halfassed way. And it leaves behind what made Wii big. Simple motion control games and a low price.
Low price isn't even it. People were practically trampling over each other to pay $300, $400 and even $500 on Ebay because the Wii was sold out. Both the 360 and PS3 managed to never hit 50k after seven years on the market at max prices of $400 and $600. Nintendo flat out just didn't make a product that appeals to the worldwide casual or gaming audience.
 

Scum

Junior Member
Got it.



...


Same thing needs to happen with Wii U. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Wii U's success will depend on:

1.) Stronger, MORE EXPANDED first party content
2.) Japanese publisher support
3.) Western Indie development support


That's the golden ticket. I will call for Iwata-San to be fired if he does not invest in and expand console 1st party software development. But I have trust in him to do what is staring him in the face. Nintendo already used this playbook with the N64 with software from NCL and from Rare, and managed to do pretty well against a very dominant Playstation brand. It's time, man.

Those numbers are more than likely right. But the bolded is pretty much what Iwata needs to do and fast. Easier said than done, of course. Iwata has this down somewhat in Japan with the 3DS, but I say it's high time he got Reggie and Shibata to follow suit and do the same in the US and Europe and promptly expand it onto the WiiU.
 

Portugeezer

Member
Agree with the triggers, but I don't understand the dislike for the right analog placement. It's just different, not worse, not better.

You don't understand the part where he is being an ass? The controller is fine layout is fine, and we shouldn't give validity to the thought of selling a Wii U with Gamepad controller, thing would bomb even harder.
 
I agree. I think Nintendo's thinking goes something like, "We sold the Wii based on waggle, and we'll sell the Wii U based off of the Gamepad." No one was doing waggle back then, but everyone is doing tablets now. It was a pretty odd gamble. If they didn't also combine that with 8 year old tech, they might be doing a lot better now being the first truly next gen console out of the gate.

The stated goal at the time was to sell the system on these new motion games and then get that expanded audience interested in their traditional titles. That worked to a degree, but not enough to justify buying a new system again 6 years later.
 

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
It was a reasonable prediction, I'll grant you. But in hindsight, it probably should have sent our spider sense tingling. When the Antistradamus talks, we need to listen.
So for the next (many) months it's going to be a race of who can sell worse: the Wii U or the Vita. Supa.
 

mgcastro

Member
That GameCube feel, it makes me feel warm inside, I loved that system.

Anyway, they are in for some tough months.

These new system come with no traction whatsoever, it's taken a year for 3DS to stabilize, Vita is still in coma and Wii U has become Vita's room mate. PS4 and new XBox should bring their best armor suit if they are to survive this slaughter. #hyperbole
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
This is what happens when you launch a lukewarm console out the gate with a small software library that does little to nothing to differentiate itself from other bigger, more popular, and cheaper systems on the market, have zero software momentum in the subsequent post-launch months, and stuff up your marketing so the mass consumer isn't exactly sure what they're buying let alone why they should.

It's not a matter of quality for what is there. The point is if you don't want NSMBU or ZombiU, maybe Nintendoland, there really isn't any reason at all when you can instead pick up an Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 instead and indulge in their far superior software library.

The tablet controll is good. It makes for interesting games and feels damn great to use. But it's not enough to sell the system, not by a long shot. And now they know.

Basically this.

I've always been a Nintendo supporter, but I don't plan to buy a Wii U until the software arrives. They could drop it to $150 and I still wouldn't buy it until the software arrived. I know it's coming and plan to get one when software arrives. It was the same reason I waited until holiday 2011 to buy a 3DS. It's also the same reason I don't plan to buy a Vita yet. Software comes before everything else. In the case of the Wii U, also marketing.

It is a self-fulfilling prophecy that poor hardware/software sales leads to poor support which leads to poor sales, etc. That's absolutely true. But who do you think should shoulder the risk or investment to break the cycle? It's not going to be Ubisoft. Ubisoft will survive just fine if Nintendo disappears overnight. They like having as many sources of revenue as possible, of course. And I really even get the impression that they appreciate Nintendo on a creative level. But survival of their own business comes first, and that means they need to think about their own products, even if it seems a little myopic.

This is the question that has dogged Nintendo since the end of the SNES era. It's no different today. The thing is, none of the other platform holders has had to build an install base with first party alone. Developers kinda just supported them.

Sony got developers to support them from the get-go with PS1 with more lenient policies compared to Nintendo's at the time. Microsoft did it by creating an environment more familiar to western developers -- the only first party product they had that "created a base" was Halo. In light of this, can Nintendo really be expected to create an install base with their first party that third party publishers believe will buy their games?

Ironically enough, if you want to call them arrogant, I think you must go back in time to the dawn of the N64. That is when Nintendo made a huge mistake, very possibly out of some degree of pure arrogance or at least unwise confidence, and the N64 generation is when Nintendo truly got humbled. Maybe a lot of folks don't see this because they, in a personal sense, have beloved childhood memories of stuff like the N64 and the Gamecube. So history is framed to make those the golden years when Nintendo was right with the world. It wasn't. For people like me, already adults coming out of the SNES era, the N64 was seen as very problematic and got pretty bad by the end of its generation.

It's hard for me to believe that GAF has forgotten this though. I see a lot of people treating Nintendo's troubles as a recent cause of them abandoning their development policies during the N64 and Gamecube years, but they weren't successful during those years either (outside of profits). Really, the last 15+ years have been a quest for Nintendo to return to the glory days of the SNES.
 

DashReindeer

Lead Community Manager, Outpost Games
Not for the mainstream who already are addicted to Facebook but it's a nice additional feature for enthusiasts and others once they are already hooked.

Oh, it's a great feature to be sure. What it isn't is a reason to buy a Wii u. In fact, it's one of those things that you just can't market that effectively. Sadly, I feel like the Wii u as a product faces this problem, and the statements I've heard out of Nintendo have largely echoed that.

When Nintendo marketing people are walking around E3 asking randoms how to market their upcoming console, you know something is wrong.
 

orioto

Good Art™
Motion and fitness where just the gateway mechanism. It seems Wii was based on getting people who didn't usually play games to play games - whatever kinds of games those might be.

There were a lot of theories about why lots of people exposed to computers, technology, and games, didn't play games. Were games too intimidating? Had interfaces gotten too complex? Did they take too long to play a session? Did the themes and stylization turn off the mainstream person? Were controllers too complex or uncomfortable for the uninitiated?

The Wii was very inviting and had an obviousness about it. The wiimote was designed to mimic both a TV remote, and a NES controller. Two super familiar items that pop-culture is familiar with and nobody is afraid of. Wii Sports was essentially what later smartphone games and tablet games would be - pick up and play, easy to understand, often with a social aspect, and colorful simple visuals with a clear interface. Very self-explanatory in terms of how to play it.

In a sense, it could also have been a content problem. Mobile games, social games, tablet games, exploded overnight and offered the mainstream plenty of friendly games that were already on a device many people had or desired for multiple uses. (Being cheap didn't hurt, but was maybe just a bonus.) One mistake Nintendo made with Wii IMO is that they stopped releasing a steady stream of those "blue ocean" games. After Wii Sports Resort, things just died off. Wii Party was an anemic, un-exciting final entry in the "Wii activity" series. In this sense, Nintendo's inadequate digital ecosystem may have helped do Wii in. They couldn't compete with the multiplying library of accessible blue ocean games showing up in the new mobile market. They didn't have a good delivery system for them, even if the games had gotten made.

To be fair, the DS also benefited from discovering some of this new market as well, thanks to its games such as Brain Training. It got a big boost. However, the DS still had one leg in the former handheld gaming market, a market that didn't completely erode with the rise of smartphone mobile gaming - at least in Japan. So the successor to the DS is not flopping once it got the software out there.

More general remarks -

IMO, Nintendo may have seen themselves as stuck with how to follow up the Wii. Wading into the red ocean of high dollar enthusiast game consoles and trying to find parity with Sony and MS may have been unappealing due to how much it would cost with so much danger of ending up with Gamecube II and nothing to show for it. On the other hand, following the Wii up involved trying to see if there was a way to appeal to people who might still be attracted to a revitalized Wii concept. There's a pretty obvious reason why Wii U didn't abandon motion control, the wiimote, and even accessories like the balance board. Nintendo brought those things forward with them to the next generation to continue working with them.

So in this sense Nintendo did exactly what was stated at the original unveiling of Wii U: tried to make a platform that was situated halfway between the "blue ocean" customer and the so-called core or "hardcore" game player. In terms of abstract, noble theory, perhaps it is not a bad idea, especially if you truly believe you cannot survive by copying what someone else is doing (like Microsoft, or Sony, or abandoning your own mobile platform and just going iOS).

In practice, as things stand it may have been a failed bet. Or perhaps they can squeak out something as happened with the 3DS.

The one thing that I think is silly though, and seriously projecting, is the common talk that goes "Well good! This horrible failure will break Nintendo of their arrogance!"

I honestly don't think it's arrogance. People project this onto Nintendo because they feel offended that someone makes a gaming product that doesn't measure up to their ideals and desires. Weirdly enough, this disappointment morphs into anger and the assumption that someone is trying to offend them. I rather think Nintendo's behavior is the result of the problem they've had for 15+ years finally coming to a head, as they try to figure out how to survive in some form that doesn't involve abandoning much of what they do.

Ironically enough, if you want to call them arrogant, I think you must go back in time to the dawn of the N64. That is when Nintendo made a huge mistake, very possibly out of some degree of pure arrogance or at least unwise confidence, and the N64 generation is when Nintendo truly got humbled. Maybe a lot of folks don't see this because they, in a personal sense, have beloved childhood memories of stuff like the N64 and the Gamecube. So history is framed to make those the golden years when Nintendo was right with the world. It wasn't. For people like me, already adults coming out of the SNES era, the N64 was seen as very problematic and got pretty bad by the end of its generation.

Nice post.
About the bold part, that's indeed what they did, and that's why they're failing. They're trapped between two bank and they cannot reach one or the other. They're drowning..
When you're between two things like that, there is two solutions. You take a little of both worlds and it's great, or you take nothing. You're not good enough for one or the other.

I don't think they're arrogant. They're... naive and clueless. They think following their feelings and desire will always work, like it worked for nds and wii. In the end, what will, or not save the WiiU is the popularity of their software. It saved the 3ds, cause it was already a total faillure in term of design, let's not forget that. The bet on the 3D was a failure, the fact that it was meant to look like a nds etc... As a console, the 3ds, like the WiiU, was really bad strategic decision. Except there is a giant market for a nintendo portable it seems, so they are safe on that front. For the Wiiu, we'll see when there is a Mario kart and a price cut.
 

Coolwhip

Banned
Low price isn't even it. People were practically trampling over each other to pay $300, $400 and even $500 on Ebay because the Wii was sold out. Both the 360 and PS3 managed to never hit 50k after seven years on the market at max prices of $400 and $600. Nintendo flat out just didn't make a product that appeals to the worldwide casual or gaming audience.

Well, another Wii phenomenon might never happen again. I don't think that should be their goal even. A 199$ Wii 2 would be a lot easier to try than a 350 Wii U. Wii 2 could have been the Kindle to the iPad.
 

Davey Cakes

Member
I'm of the opinion that, while the Wii U is a console and not a handheld, it can still "pull a 3DS" and slowly climb out of the pit once the software library builds itself up more.

Thing is, we could be waiting for months until the system starts doing decent numbers.
 

Azure J

Member
Great post. It's all about the software. Look at 3DS. It was struggling to sell hardware for a long time and people were claiming it was dead, but then it got GAMES.

I love how people jump to conclusions here and say that Wii U is dead because it is a failure conceptually. A console could have an amazing hook to it, but if it doesn't have the games it is not going to sell. The Wii U simply doesn't have the games yet. If it is still selling this poorly in 6 months time then it is time to be concerned.

Pretty much the silver lining in all of this is this right here. The problem is, how is Nintendo going to create confidence in development for the system? If they OD on the Panic Mode button to keep the thing afloat long enough to get help, 3rd parties pass them up because "We can't compete with Nintendo franchises.™" If they ask for help, who's coming to the rescue with PS4/720 looming? Why are they going to do something on Wii U versus PS360 as they have a defined and considerable user base? Furthermore, who's going to actually have content that really says "Wii U is worthwhile" in the given time period?

The worries are justified when you realize that this is a system that will pretty much be made or broken by the fastest actions taken in the now.
 

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Anyone else think a tweaked case design (Astin Martin Grey, please!) and a much, much better/aggressive advertising campaign can help move additional units?
 

Mandoric

Banned
In all reality I wonder how feasible that was. I know it is quite similar to Bluray, but with the rounded disc edges I feel like Nintendo may have changed a little too much to be able to add codec support for Bluray

Back when music came on CDs you couldn't trip over a girlpop singles rack without landing on a disc that was shaped like a heart or a star. Slightly different edge molding is nothing.

The industry changed drastically last generation and sadly none of that change involved the big 3 console manufacturers. I'm honestly scared that mobile and f2p gaming will cause an industry-wide crash.

F2P's core elements are as old as the hills, and both Sony and Nintendo survived an industry where lots of users played at no direct benefit to the platformholder and for pennies a session. If bringing back what's essentially the arcade model produces a crash, it has less to do with that model and more to do with an industry that can't offer anything but overpriced movies on, ironically, boxes that bring an incremental performance increase at a huge cost increase.

The good news is that sustainable F2P is based on hardcore competition and sooner or later, even if the industry goes up in smoke, eventually someone's gonna ship the LoL2 or DotA3 box with a guarantee of steady 60FPS and a good mouse, throw in aaaaallllll the cosmetics up front to justify that $250 pricetag, and the endless dance will start over.
 
So, we all know what problems the Wii U has. Care to rank them?

1. No "killer app" a la Wii Sports, Halo, Super Mario 64
2. Poor game library / 3rd party support
3. Brand confusion / people think it's a Wii accessory / not called the Wii 2 or new brand name
4. Weak hardware (contributes to #2)
5. Price
6. Poor marketing / people unaware it exists
7. Bad word of mouth
8. Bad online "account" system / bad online in general
 
It's very clear that Iwata wanted to get in on the CoD 3rd party royalties and all the other money they missed out during the wii era, but at the same time didn't want to create a super powerful system that might scare the masses. So they decided to go for the "best" of both worlds by making a system with a tablet that the masses love with enough juice to get CoD and PS3/360 3rd party games. Unfortunately this appeals to very few people at all because the mass market will stick with the much cheaper Wii and the CoD people will stick to the cheaper systems.
 

AniHawk

Member
not totally surprised by under 100k, but being that low is really bad. like, vita bad. or worse, because it just launched.

we'll see if it can actually turn around. the ds reached pretty low levels and it came back in the latter half of 2005. i wouldn't hold my breath though. not with the complete lack of support it's receiving. at least the vita had games.
 

Miles X

Member
Nintendo do not have the luxury of cutting the price and having everything be dandy like it was with 3DS. There are too many other serious issues but Tobor summed it up perfectly. They just have no target demographic anymore other than Nintendo fans.
 

GavinGT

Banned
So, we all know what problems the Wii U has. Care to rank them?

1. No "killer app" a la Wii Sports, Halo, Super Mario 64
2. Poor game library / 3rd party support
3. Brand confusion / people think it's a Wii accessory / not called the Wii 2 or new brand name
4. Price
5. Poor marketing / people unaware it exists
6. Bad word of mouth
7. Bad online "account" system / bad online in general

1. They based their entire console around a concept that isn't fun.
 
The OP was updated basically saying the 55k was not the actual number for Wii U right? Just comparison difference to Wii?

Can someone explain what they meant by the 38% vs Wii statement and what number of actual Wii U sales that translates to?
 

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
https://twitter.com/TheKevinDent/status/302240831761440769

5qs9fJP.jpg


UfIa3x1.jpg


LPMVkdV.jpg
 

Azure J

Member
So, we all know what problems the Wii U has. Care to rank them?

1. No "killer app" a la Wii Sports, Halo, Super Mario 64
2. Poor game library / 3rd party support
3. Brand confusion / people think it's a Wii accessory / not called the Wii 2 or new brand name
4. Price
5. Poor marketing / people unaware it exists
6. Bad word of mouth
7. Bad online "account" system / bad online in general

I think marketing, No "Next Gen Am Here" Game, and brand confusion should be the top 3.
 
So, we all know what problems the Wii U has. Care to rank them?

1. No "killer app" a la Wii Sports, Halo, Super Mario 64
2. Poor game library / 3rd party support
3. Brand confusion / people think it's a Wii accessory / not called the Wii 2 or new brand name
4. Price
5. Poor marketing / people unaware it exists
6. Bad word of mouth
7. Bad online "account" system / bad online in general
You forgot the eighth problem. The hardware doesn't show us anything that looks like an improvement over current gen consoles that have been out for more than half a decade. I wonder how long people are going to ignore this issue.
Anyone else think a tweaked case design (Astin Martin Grey, please!) and a much, much better/aggressive advertising campaign can help move additional units?
Maybe if involved all of that, the replacement of Nintendoland with Wii sports HD, a packed in Wii-mote plus and a price drop to $300 for the deluxe. It is still just a band-aid on a gangrenous wound until the software starts flowing regularly.
 

Cheebo

Banned
Why are people assuming 3ds did good? 3ds software sales were down 4% according to ign vs jan 2012 and 3ds jan 2012 hardware weren't particularly good.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
The OP was updated basically saying the 55k was not the actual number for Wii U right? Just comparison difference to Wii?

Can someone explain what they meant by the 38% vs Wii statement and what number of actual Wii U sales that translates to?

Sorry if it was unclear, but that would be the calculated result for Wii U sales.

476 + 604 + 436 = 1516

1516 * 0.62 = 940

940 - 425 - 460 = 55K Wii Us
 
The concept is a dud. They told everyone that complicated controllers were dead, that the future was about motion control, and laughing and jumping and having fun...and then totally reversed course. Now the message is the same complicated dual analog controllers as the other guys with a tablet stuck in the middle. It's confusing, and convoluted, and not nearly as much fun.

The Wii U is Iwata grasping at straws, unsure what to do now that the casual market he was so proud of is happy with iPads and Smartphones, and the core is perfectly happy with Playstation's and Xbox's and PC's. They have no quarter. The Wii U is what happens when a company has a hit, squanders the good will and marketshare that hit built, and has no idea how to catch lightning a second time.


Wow, read this from Raonak's link above. This is a great post.
 

jay

Member
Selling 55 thousand of something is pretty impressive. I know I've never sold nearly that many things in one month.
 
You forgot the eighth problem. The hardware doesn't show us anything that looks like an improvement over current gen consoles that have been out for more than half a decade. I wonder how long people are going to ignore this issue.

Holy crap, I sure did. Biggest oversight in the world. I was thinking it while I typed, editing now.
 

Jhriad

Member
So I guess a thread on discussing how Wii U ended up here and what could have been done different isn't allowed.

I'll summarize here then..

The Wii U isn't targetted at a big audience right now. It tries to get ps360 owners interested but in a halfassed way. And it leaves behind what made Wii big. Simple motion control games and a low price.

The Wii has been dead in the water for a while now. Doing that a second time wouldn't have yielded the same results with the casual crowd. The Wii U is reaping the negative effects the Wii had on the core audience's perception of Nintendo platforms in addition to Nintendo platforms inability to sell third party games. Publishers don't want to dive into the platform because they haven't been able to sell software on previous platforms. Unless Nintendo first party (or subsidized exclusives) can provide a reason for more core users to pick the system up it's dead in the water. Much like a bad game in a series can sap the sales of the next iteration in the series, even if it's a really good game, the Wii U is suffering from the aftereffects of the Wii's many failings in the previous generation.
 

Coolwhip

Banned
You forgot the eighth problem. The hardware doesn't show us anything that looks like an improvement over current gen consoles that have been out for more than half a decade. I wonder how long people are going to ignore this issue.

That's only a selling point to a small amount of people that Nintendo is after.
 
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