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[donny2112]

Why are people attacking CheSpace?

Because he consistently tries to troll the Wii without answering the legitimate rebuttals for his "points." By the way, he is often part of the "elitist" mindset that you so often rail against, as well. Notice how Kobun Heat tried to get him to pin down what he considered good support from Nintendo for core gamers, and he never responded?

 

[Olaeh]

Excellent post, kame-sennin. You are one of my favorite posters.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

What a time to be alive.

:lol

 

[donny2112]

Wii software is currently outselling 360 software, right? I mean, even in terms of third party software. It's just more spread out rather than focused on a few titles.

I don't want to look retarded, that's why I'm asking. :lol

Total software? Yes.
LTD third-party? No.
Current third-party? Unknown, but questionable.
Launch-aligned third-party? It was as of a few months ago and probably still is.

 

[Neo C.]

I truly believe that Nintendo will make fewer and fewer games, of higher and higher quality. Sad in lots of ways, but to build brand equity once or twice a year would be the only reason to develop anything for them right now. Wii Brain Training and Wii Nintendogs are still coming. Can any of you even imagine what the sales projections for those look like? The profit-loss against something like Final Fantasy XIII? My god it would be like Dresden.

I'm pretty sure some of the EAD members are already brainstorming for their next console and handheld. At least they aren't in hurry to release more system sellers (especially in the USA) since their current games library are selling more than well enough.

 

[bucklam66]

There is going to be a true Wii Zelda, ( i have never cared for zelda but..), there will be.

What shape it will take i will assume will take place in the next year. LBP sold like crap cause, i could not talk a hardcore PS dude into buying it, and i just bought a ps2 within the year! The commercials and trolling on GAF sold me, cept the price and no BC.

Sorry, but manhood dont make the console no more.

 

[Saint Gregory]

I think games were held back to have Motion+ support added to aid in the Motion+ launch next Spring.

That seems to be the prevailing theory. I'm a little iffy on M+ myself. I was really excited when it was first announced but now I wonder if it's going to cause more confusion than it's worth. The idea is supposed to be to get core gamers onboard with more precise control but don't you risk the danger of splitting the market between people who have the attatchment and those who don't?

 

[Chumly]

Because he consistently tries to troll the Wii without answering the legitimate rebuttals for his "points." By the way, he is often part of the "elitist" mindset that you so often rail against, as well. Notice how Kobun Heat tried to get him to pin down what he considered good support from Nintendo for core gamers, and he never responded?

Hes in every dam thread bashing the wii its like clockwork. :lol

 

[donny2112]

it makes sense. if you shell out the dough for a HDTV you want your games to take advantage of it, as opposed to looking blurry.

Most people who buy HDTVs don't watch HD content.

 

[Deku]

Because he consistently tries to troll the Wii without answering the legitimate rebuttals for his "points." By the way, he is often part of the "elitist" mindset that you so often rail against, as well. Notice how Kobun Heat tried to get him to pin down what he considered good support from Nintendo for core gamers, and he never responded?

Isn't he financially wedded to Microsoft.

 

[Neo C.]

I think games were held back to have Motion+ support added to aid in the Motion+ launch next Spring.

I assume it won't be many games with added motion+ support, which were held back, maybe a few. When you have developed a game with the current setup in mind, it won't be easy to add optional motion+ support.

I think the execs foresaw the market situation and decided not to bring more games on the market in this holidays (and to give some teams more time for polishing). It's the most simple explaination.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Pretty decent numbers for Fable II and Little Big Planet.

 

[Gaborn]

That seems to be the prevailing theory. I'm a little iffy on M+ myself. I was really excited when it was first announced but now I wonder if it's going to cause more confusion than it's worth. The idea is supposed to be to get core gamers onboard with more precise control but don't you risk the danger of splitting the market between people who have the attatchment and those who don't?

That was the worry with the Balance Board and with... well, almost anything. I think there is one basic difference though. Nintendo could basically include it packed in with every single game that requires it if they want, or at least offer it at a rock bottom price of like $5-$10, AND have it packed in with new controllers/consoles in the future.

Keep in mind though, since I mentioned the balance board, what happened with that. Even though it was a peripheral designed around a single game there have been multiple games that have successfully used and integrated it into the game play. Does that mean the userbase is split? sure, to some extent, but the splits are large enough developers can be at their leisure as to whether to include something like balance board support or not. Considering WiiMotion+ is going to be launched with the sequel to arguably the most significant game since Mario Brothers I don't think Nintendo should be particularly worried about it's penetration to the mass market.

 

[AniHawk]

Pretty decent numbers for Fable II and Little Big Planet.

I don't know any reason why Fable II wouldn't do well. The first one sold over a million copies in the States.

 

[smallsoft]

Nintendo has completely stolen the market for rhythm/rock games from the other two hardware manufacturers, even though they were late to the market and those games had an established base on other platforms. How can anybody look at that data and argue that a popular, well-advertised, (sometimes) polished franchise, targeted at the Wii user base will not sell?

Depends on the franchise, one can easily argue the music genre is much more targeted/appealing to the Wii's growing casual market segment than traditional genres such as RPGs and Action games. Threfore allowing Nintendo to easily steal this genre as you cited. I have no data to back this claim, its just a theory. But it seems to be one rooted in sound logic...

As for putting more traditional core franchises on the Wii...not a bad idea but one disadvantage of Nintendo's unique hardware is that ports are too difficult from the X360/PS3 to the Wii. Leaving you the option of either developing the port from the ground-up on the Wii (not a true port), or dumbing the game down and sacrificing significant quality.

The development decision for the traditional core titles then comes down to Wii or X360/PS3, and given the high-attachment ratio of Xbox 360 software, not a surprise that publishers are betting on Microsoft's console with their traditional software.

That being said, I expect publishers to continue to test the hardcore waters on the Nintendo Wii with games like No More Heroes, Red Steel, The Conduit, etc...As the Wii user-base numbers skyrocket, this will be a way for publishers to pinpoint how large the the traditional-core markestshare really is on the Wii.

 

[jj984jj]

Boo @ Animal Crossing being right below Wii Music. Horray @ Fallout 3 still being in the top 20, I hope it passes 1 million on the 360 alone.

Ouch @ LBP and Valkyria sales, especially the latter.

Did we ever find out how badly The Last Remnant bombed?

 

[Shaheed79]

So can someone explain to me as to why the 360 hasn't achieved PS2 level sales yet? It supposedly has the best library of games and has the cheapest console on the market and the Wii supposedly isn't competing with it since they are completely different demographics. So why exactly hasn't the 360 picked up the PS2 torch and carry it towards market leadership or at least PS2 2002 levels? What is so different between the 360 and PS2?

 

[Gaborn]

So can someone explain to me as to why the 360 hasn't achieved PS2 level sales yet? It supposedly has the best library of games and has the cheapest console on the market and the Wii supposedly isn't competing with it since they are completely different demographics. So why exactly hasn't the 360 picked up the PS2 torch and carry it towards market leadership or at least PS2 2002 levels? What is so different between the 360 and PS2?

Why didn't the Dreamcast do PS2 level sales?

 

[szaromir]

So can someone explain to me as to why the 360 hasn't achieved PS2 level sales yet? It supposedly has the best library of games and has the cheapest console on the market and the Wii supposedly isn't competing with it since they are completely different demographics. So why exactly hasn't the 360 picked up the PS2 torch and carry it towards market leadership or at least PS2 2002 levels? What is so different between the 360 and PS2?

It odesn't have Wii's appeal, and while the market is growing at fast rate, it's not infinitely big. We already have one console that's more popular than PS2.

 

[YYZ]

People are genuinely surprised or upset at Valkyria's numbers? The console with the smallest install base and it's a pretty niche game. I'm not really disappointed with that game's sales given the circumstances.

 

[chespace]

Because he consistently tries to troll the Wii without answering the legitimate rebuttals for his "points." By the way, he is often part of the "elitist" mindset that you so often rail against, as well. Notice how Kobun Heat tried to get him to pin down what he considered good support from Nintendo for core gamers, and he never responded?

Jesus Christ, suck it. I didn't respond because I was out on a Friday night.

I haven't read all of this thread since I last posted but Kohler asked me which Gamecube games I purchased? Hard to say since the GC was squarely right in the time period when I was working at EGM and 1UP, and games I played and owned were either review copies or comp copies sent to me from PR folks.

Here's a list of Gamecube games I have either owned or enjoyed (and were exclusive to the system). Note that I did not own all of the below, but probably most of it at one point or another.

Custom Robo
F-Zero GX
Fire Emblem: PoR
Killer 7
Metroid Prime (didn't play 2)
Zelda: WW
Mario Sunshine
Pikmin (didn't play 2)
MGS: Twin Snakes
Odama
RE4
RE0
SW Rogue Squadron II
Super Monkey Ball
Viewtiful Joe 1 and 2

What was the point of this again?

I still don't feel like playing with my Wii, Kohler. A failure for me as a gamer, and the most popular videogame system in the world. Sweet.

 

[Version 3.0]

So can someone explain to me as to why the 360 hasn't achieved PS2 level sales yet? It supposedly has the best library of games and has the cheapest console on the market and the Wii supposedly isn't competing with it since they are completely different demographics. So why exactly hasn't the 360 picked up the PS2 torch and carry it towards market leadership or at least PS2 2002 levels? What is so different between the 360 and PS2?

Easy: because the Wii has that market. Despite all the celebrating (or crying) about the Wii reaching grannies or soccer moms, they're still really a small part of its audience. It appeals more broadly than to "people who didn't used to play games", and I'd venture that the biggest demographic (if you can call it that) the Wii is reaching would be former or current PS2 owners.

People who bought a PS2 and played, say, GTA and Madden and Tiger Woods and Guitar Hero, or just whatever was hot at the time are now picking up a Wii and playing Wii Sports and Guitar Hero and Mario Kart and so on.

 

[MacBosse]

I just vomited at Rock Band on Wii at 13...

Little Big Planet didn't even chart top 20?????!!!?????

Bring it to the 360 right away, it will treat it right.

 

[YYZ]

Little Big Planet didn't even chart top 20?????!!!?????

Bring it to the 360 right away, it will treat it right.

And Banjo's sales are no indication of how well LBP would do?

 

[davepoobond]

And Banjo's sales are no indication of how well LBP would do?

^^

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

There are other reasons that third parties don't want to compete on Nintendo platforms, but they are not the kinds of things they want to discuss in front of shareholders. The reality is that the Wii and DS are disruptive to the standard software development methods of most third parties. The Wii and DS are attempting (and succeeding) to change how consumers perceive value in software. The traditional model says that increasing the visual fidelity and feature checklist for major franchises annually will net strong sales. Instead, Nintendo is pushing player/software interaction and social interaction while downplaying the importance of visual fidelity. They're also moving towards a long-tail or "evergreen" sales pattern. Most large publishers have large, incredibly layered, inflexible development structures. When you take that into consideration, a massive shift in software development philosophy must be terrifying. What's worse is that this new philosophy is relatively untested and the market being targeted is ill-defined and under researched. These publishers are often too large to take advantage of the new market. It's unlikely a developer like EA or Ubisoft would be able to turn out a product like Wii Fit or Wii Sports without MASSIVE restructuring and most likely a change of CEO (see: Yamauchi->Iwata). Do you think John Riccitiello wants to talk about that in a conference call?

**Edit: Correction, there are two GH SKUs in the top 15, with GHWT 360 coming in at #15.

I couldn't explain this better myself. There is a reason why small/medium developers and small publishers migrated toward the Wii immediately while the big ones are taking their time.

 

[suaveric]

How did EA for the second year in a row let the (majority) of the holiday season go without the latest Rock Band game on the Wii? Did they not learn their lesson last year? What a missed opportunity.

 

[segarr]

May be a bit off topic (Or old) but, whatever happened to Farcry 2?

I was under the impression that this was supposed to be an ace of some sorts, and I just haven't really heard anything about it. Seems like the game got caught between Fallout 3 and Gears on 360/Resistance on PS3...

 

[Version 3.0]

How did EA for the second year in a row let the (majority) of the holiday season go without the latest Rock Band game on the Wii? Did they not learn their lesson last year? What a missed opportunity.

It boggles the mind, doesn't it? I'd say they were trying to avoid too close a release, which might annoy customers who just bought RB1, but they weren't afraid to release RB1 and its expansion pack on practically the same day, so I can't see any logic to apply...

Maybe they expected RB1 to bomb on Wii, and didn't start on 2 until it didn't? Although that scenario is full of all kinds of twisted logic as well.

 

[boiled goose]

Jesus Christ, suck it. I didn't respond because I was out on a Friday night.

I haven't read all of this thread since I last posted but Kohler asked me which Gamecube games I purchased? Hard to say since the GC was squarely right in the time period when I was working at EGM and 1UP, and games I played and owned were either review copies or comp copies sent to me from PR folks.

Here's a list of Gamecube games I have either owned or enjoyed (and were exclusive to the system). Note that I did not own all of the below, but probably most of it at one point or another.


What was the point of this again?

I still don't feel like playing with my Wii, Kohler. A failure for me as a gamer, and the most popular videogame system in the world. Sweet.

There is plenty on wii for you to enjoy!!!

Fire Emblem: PoR (wii sequel!)
Killer 7 (no more heroes> killer 7)
Metroid Prime (didn't play 2) (prime 3)
Zelda: WW (TP!!!)
Mario Sunshine (Galaxy game of the year!)
RE0 (RE UC)
RE4 (madworld)
Pikmin (didn't play 2) little king story, overlord
Super Monkey Ball ( monkey ball wii, mercury meltdown)

plenty of good games left to compensate for these:
Custom Robo
MGS: Twin Snakes
Odama
SW Rogue Squadron II
Viewtiful Joe 1 and

RE4 wii, conduit, de blob, zack and wiki, world of goo, etc.
plus fun multiplayer stuff like wario ware, wii sports, smash, mario kart, bomberman, tetris,


F-Zero GX

ok got me here..

It boggles the mind, doesn't it? I'd say they were trying to avoid too close a release, which might annoy customers who just bought RB1, but they weren't afraid to release RB1 and its expansion pack on practically the same day, so I can't see any logic to apply...

Maybe they expected RB1 to bomb on Wii, and didn't start on 2 until it didn't? Although that scenario is full of all kinds of twisted logic as well.

well... RB wii is #13.... so maybe they want to milk that as much as they can...

 

[boiled goose]

dp

 

[Son of Godzilla]

I think Nintendo's biggest problem is spurring population growth to overcome HD console adoption rate. Outside the Mario Galaxies, there's hardly reason for anyone who newly adopts a 360 to return to the Wii's horrid landscape. So their reliance is on newly minted gamers and their family friendly appearance. I'm not sure of the growth/adoption rates exactly, but Nintendo should be well off, assuming it can distinguish itself from the myriad of Wii imitators that are selling themselves for ~$40.

 

[Trevor360]

I plan on getting a wii.

By that, of course, I mean my parents will probably buy a wii and I shall play it while saving my money for an HD console.

 

[chespace]

There is plenty on wii for you to enjoy!!!

Fire Emblem: PoR (wii sequel!) -- Yup, I should check this out.

Killer 7 (no more heroes> killer 7) -- I've played NMH and liked it.

Metroid Prime (didn't play 2) (prime 3) -- There's a reason why I didn't play Echoes, although the waggle might be interesting.

Zelda: WW (TP!!!) -- First Wii game I bought. Great game but I lost interest in it about 3/4s of the way through.

Mario Sunshine (Galaxy game of the year!) -- Bought it on day 1 and never really played it.

RE0 (RE UC) -- No.

RE4 (madworld) -- Eh, what's this? This a RE4 clone already released?

Pikmin (didn't play 2) little king story, overlord -- Never heard of these games either. They're out already?

Super Monkey Ball ( monkey ball wii, mercury meltdown) -- I think I'm done with this genre. Never played any of the later SMBs or the game on iphone. I also have Zack and Wiki but never played much of it. I played through most of RE4 Wii. The controls were good.

I also can't deny the fact that SD graphics are an eyesore on my HDTV so it's a factor in whether I want to spend extended amounts of time on the Wii. Good games like TP and NMH have proven I can spend large chunks of time playing SD games on my TV, but those games are pretty extraordinary and Wii needs way more of these types of games.

 

[Coolio McAwesome]

And Banjo's sales are no indication of how well LBP would do?

I personally think that both Banjo and LBP would have been better suited to Nintendo's userbase. Sony and Microsoft have put so much behind marketing their systems to the hardcore audience, so bright and colorful games on those consoles are being sent to die. It's really unfortunate, too. I haven't played LBP planet myself, but I'd rate Banjo as one of the best games of the year.

Heck, Microsoft should just bite the bullet and let Rare release their next game on the Wii. That way, Rare would make more money, Microsoft would make more money, and Nintendo would make more money. I don't think the move would really even hurt the 360 in any discernible way either, as the typical the game apparently doesn't appeal to typical 360 user.

Everyone who has an 360 that didn't buy Banjo is part of the problem.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

And Banjo's sales are no indication of how well LBP would do?

Fair point but it seems to me that 360 buy into hype (from the media) alot more that PS3 owners do and the 360 has a wider spectrum type of owners because of having double the install base. We'll never know I guess.

 

[segarr]

I personally think that both Banjo and LBP would have been better suited to Nintendo's userbase. Sony and Microsoft have put so much behind marketing their systems to the hardcore audience, so bright and colorful games on those consoles are being sent to die. It's really unfortunate, too. I haven't played LBP planet myself, but I'd rate Banjo as one of the best games of the year.

Heck, Microsoft should just bite the bullet and let Rare release their next game on the Wii. That way, Rare would make more money, Microsoft would make more money, and Nintendo would make more money. I don't think the move would really even hurt the 360 in any discernible way either, as the typical the game apparently doesn't appeal to typical 360 user.

Everyone who has an 360 that didn't buy Banjo is part of the problem.

Banjo needed to be an overwhelmingly good, triple A, goty contender type game to sell well and it simply wasn't.

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/banjokazooienutsandbolts

I feel bad for rare, but I always felt that if this game wasn't batshit insane good, that it would struggle. I've supported the shit out of this console, especially in the past 2 months, but I was not looking to buy anything that wasn't top of the food chain. You and many other may have personally felt that it was that kind of game, but I feel as though the general consensus was quite "good, far from great".

Far as the userbase goes...I don't want to get into the core/casual shit....lets just say that the game mechanics are complicated as hell. Much like the first Viva Pinate, it looks like it's all cute and cuddly, but it's really not something that your wife is going to enjoy playing.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

Banjo needed to be an overwhelmingly good, triple A, goty contender type game to sell well and it simply wasn't.

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/banjokazooienutsandbolts

I feel bad for rare, but I always felt that if this game wasn't batshit insane good, that it would struggle. I've supported the shit out of this console, especially in the past 2 months, but I was not looking to buy anything that wasn't top of the food chain. You and many other may have personally felt that it was that kind of game, but I feel as though the general consensus was quite "good, far from great".

Far as the userbase goes...I don't want to get into the core/casual shit....lets just say that the game mechanics are complicated as hell. Much like the first Viva Pinate, it looks like it's all cute and cuddly, but it's really not something that your wife is going to enjoy playing.

The game mechanics are no way near as as complicated as Viva, although I agree they should perhaps have down played the building aspects people just dont think they want to do that with their game time

 

[justchris]

That seems to be the prevailing theory. I'm a little iffy on M+ myself. I was really excited when it was first announced but now I wonder if it's going to cause more confusion than it's worth. The idea is supposed to be to get core gamers onboard with more precise control but don't you risk the danger of splitting the market between people who have the attatchment and those who don't?

When you have a situation like in Japan where the Wii Balance Board has a larger install base than the PS3, it doesn't really matter. And with the M+, they plan to sell it separately, as well as with Wii Sports 2, so an even better chance of increasing its penetration. Of course, how they market it will be a big deal, as well.

Also, its possible for a game to be M+ enhanced, but not require the accessory, so as to encourage people to buy it, but not necessarily force them to (unless its a game that you know is going to be niche anyway, then it hardly matters).

Of course, none of this explains Nintendo's utter failure to localize games that have already been released in other regions pre-M+.

 

[decon]

No LittleBigPlanet makes me sad

I demand a top 40!

 

[szaromir]

No LittleBigPlanet makes me sad

I demand a top 40!

141k, probably Top 30.

 

[nli10]

How did EA for the second year in a row let the (majority) of the holiday season go without the latest Rock Band game on the Wii? Did they not learn their lesson last year? What a missed opportunity.

RB on the PS3 and 360 will mostly sell over holidays, RB Wii will sell any time of the year.




Even a 90% plus Meta critic would not get bear and Bird into the top 10 selling games. Microsoft know this, and Rare know this. If they keep churning out quality 'little brother' games then those kids will grow up liking the MS brand - as long as they can slash their prces as time goes on and practically give them away.

 

[jvm]

PM sent but here is what I found.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/games/2007/12/november_npds_microsofts_react.html

Thanks, Karma. This is what I was looking for.

 

[JudgeN]

LBP didn't really have that big of a drop off, 200k last month and 141k this month. Who to say it doesn't do 125k next month? Hell if it does do over 100k next month it did better then uncharted did but then again that game bombed or at least that's what GAF told me.

 

[swerve]

LBP didn't really have that big of a drop off, 200k last month and 141k this month. Who to say it doesn't do 125k next month? Hell if it does do over 100k next month it did better then uncharted did but then again that game bombed or at least that's what GAF told me.

Well, that just depends if the 141k this month was evenly distributed, or if it all occurred in the first week of Nov when the game launched.

 

[Captain Smoker]

PM sent but here is what I found.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/games/2007/12/november_npds_microsofts_react.html

"#1 in Total Revenue: Xbox 360 leads in total revenue with $763 million compared to $587 million for Wii and $364 million for PS3 according to NPD."

Hmm, that can't be right.

Wii: 250 $ x 2.040.000 = 510.000.000 $ (that's just hardware)

+ Mario Kart & Wii Fit > 587.000.000 $

 

[BishopLamont]

Didn't we get Uncharted numbers for October/November 2007? Captain you have anything?

 

[Captain Smoker]

Didn't we get Uncharted numbers for October/November 2007? Captain you have anything?

No October numbers, because it was released on 11/16/2007

But here're the numbers we have:
Nov. 07: 117.000
Dec. 07: 206.000
Jan. 08: 55.000
Feb. 08: no numbers from here on, but it was #8 in the PS3 Top10
Mar. 08: out of PS3 Top10

 

[llonesmiz]

"#1 in Total Revenue: Xbox 360 leads in total revenue with $763 million compared to $587 million for Wii and $364 million for PS3 according to NPD."

Hmm, that can't be right.

Wii: 250 $ x 2.040.000 = 510.000.000 $ (that's just hardware)

+ Mario Kart & Wii Fit > 587.000.000 $

That link was for November 2007. jvm asked for it.

 

[BishopLamont]

Ah ok, seems like LBP is tracking the same month by month, but it still has December to go. Underwhelming it remains.