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[reilo]

The thing is, everyone supporting the other notion is extrpolating on data points that are non-exhistant and nevr have been. : /

We know that the PS3 has already caught up with the X360 in France. We know it's outsold it in other countries such as Germany, Italy, Spain, Norway, and so forth in the 9 months it's been on the market. The only European country we know the X360 has the lead is in the UK.

 

[doicare]

thank you for providing factual evidence of that.
If you want to get into pissing matches I'd say that December in north america accounts for an entire YEAR of PS3 gain over the 360 in mainland (exc-UK) gain.
* you nor I can prove our stance.

The fact is i'm not allowed to post the info i have, thankfully each company will be releasing their quarterly data soon, so you can see for yourself.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

There is a lot of truth and logic in this post. I hope everyone read it.

And not only that, but I bet the situation for this generation is going to be the following, which is fucking awesome for software publishers:

1. Figure out how to create games that are awesome / sell well to the Wii audience. I find it hilarious that someone hasn't created an Uncharted or something for Wii (and I don't mean with the same graphics, but with the same theme...adventuring about like crazy), its really a market which hasn't been tapped yet.

2. Create FPS / Huge Graphical showcases on 360 and to a much lesser extent Ps3.

The money will roll in from these two sources if they get them right. It will be like a dream, two sources of huge revenue in one generation (excluding handhelds).

 

[Shepherd]

The fact is i'm not allowed to post the info i have, thankfully each company will be releasing their quarterly data soon, so you can see for yourself.

Bullshit. Saying shit like this without proof will get you banned. Post your source or shutup.

 

[doicare]

Bullshit. Saying shit like this without proof will get you banned. Post your source or shutup.

I think you should just grow up and accept that sometimes certain things aren't allowed to be posted, you only have to wait 2-3 weeks before the companys post their own numbers.

 

[abacab driver]

I thought HW numbers would be a little higher all around, but still impressive.
:lol @ Snah's epic spin.

 

[Shepherd]

We know that the PS3 has already caught up with the X360 in France. We know it's outsold it in other countries such as Germany, Italy, Spain, Norway, and so forth in the 9 months it's been on the market. The only European country we know the X360 has the lead is in the UK.

Did not know we knew so much. Post the total sales number for France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Norway and the UK.

 

[TheRipDizz]

What is with all this baseless speculation without proof?

 

[LukeSmith]

I think you should just grow up and accept that sometimes certain things aren't allowed to be posted, you only have to wait 2-3 weeks before the companys post their own numbers.

Uh-oh, it's getting all TRICO in here. :-/

 

[tanod]

Did he tell us how many titles sold over 100k for the 360/Wii/DS/PSP???

I missed where he said that about the PS3 i was wondering if he revealed anything more.

It was in reference to UT3 sales. He said it was 9th on the PS3 list and that it did over 100k.

 

[Shepherd]

I think you should just grow up and accept that sometimes certain things aren't allowed to be posted, you only have to wait 2-3 weeks before the companys post their own numbers.

The only numbers Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft post are shipped numbers. How is that going to prove they outsold the 360 at RETAIL. Give it up.

Edit:
Microsoft already released their shipped numbers for Oct-Dec 2007. It was 4.3 Million units.

 

[Version 3.0]

Well, I see we're into the monthly "3rd parties on Wii" arguments. It took longer than usual this month, for which we probably have snah and his insanity to thank.

At least 360 cheerleaders have switched from "The Wii is going to kill off real gaming" to "real games only sell on the 360". Neither is true, but I prefer the 2nd one.

 

[schuelma]

Uh-oh, it's getting all TRICO in here. :-/

Hey Luke, shouldn't the Wii stop selling soon???

 

[HK-47]

Hey Luke, shouldn't the Wii stop selling soon???

snap

 

[chespace]

I see the argument has once again fallen on the shoulders of Europe and "worldwide".

It makes sense of course, but it just won't be the silver bullet that changes a goddamn thing in this console war.

Also, Wii's success also does not really affect PS3 or 360. Sure, both Sony and MS could stand to make more money, but the respective audiences are so different, there's room for both hardcore and mainstream (non)games to exist quite profitably.

 

[tanod]

Hey Luke, shouldn't the Wii stop selling soon???

According to Luke Smith, circa June '06 (been listening to old 1UY), the console war would not start in earnest until holiday 2007.

 

[schuelma]

Also, Wii's success also does not really affect PS3 or 360. Sure, both Sony and MS could stand to make more money, but the respective audiences are so different, there's room for both hardcore and mainstream (non)games to exist quite profitably.

Generally agree in N.A, but disagree in Japan.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

I see the argument has once again fallen on the shoulders of Europe and "worldwide".

It makes sense of course, but it just won't be the silver bullet that changes a goddamn thing in this console war.

Also, Wii's success also does not really affect PS3 or 360. Sure, both Sony and MS could stand to make more money, but the respective audiences are so different, there's room for both hardcore and mainstream (non)games to exist quite profitably.

It is truly interesting to see a generation where there are 3 consoles and one of them owns the market but doesn't affect the others. It may affect the resources available for the others, but as long as both sides of the river are profitable, each side should get a large amount of support.

 

[sonycowboy]

The PS2 has shipped about 120 million WW, and sold about 40+ million US, 40+ million PAL, 20+ million Japan.

PS2 > 45M in NA per NPD, > 45M in Europe per Screen Digest, and last I saw the 20m+ is pretty good as it's on it's last legs in Japan.

However, in the US & Europe it has another bump to it once the price drops assuming anybody's still making SW for the thing.

 

[harSon]

I see the argument has once again fallen on the shoulders of Europe and "worldwide".

It makes sense of course, but it just won't be the silver bullet that changes a goddamn thing in this console war.

Also, Wii's success also does not really affect PS3 or 360. Sure, both Sony and MS could stand to make more money, but the respective audiences are so different, there's room for both hardcore and mainstream (non)games to exist quite profitably.

And it's an argument you can't combat since numbers are rarely released :lol

 

[TheRipDizz]

Well, I see we're into the monthly "3rd parties on Wii" arguments. It took longer than usual this month, for which we probably have snah and his insanity to thank.

At least 360 cheerleaders have switched from "The Wii is going to kill off real gaming" to "real games only sell on the 360". Neither is true, but I prefer the 2nd one.

Suda started that yesterday. Go find him in Japan and bitch to him.

 

[LukeSmith]

According to Luke Smith, circa June '06 (been listening to old 1UY), the console war would not start in earnest until holiday 2007.

Exactly, so the Wii will keep selling for another infinite years. I think the last post I made in response to someone citing an age-old and incorrect prediction of mine re: Nintendo called the Wii and DS unstoppable forces of Sales-Age destruction. That was sometime earlier this year (Sept. NPDs, I think), I vastly underestimated Wii's appeal to gamers outside of the GameCube owner (I think it's obvious Wii Sports appeals WAY beyond the "core gamer" Nintendo franchises).

 

[Chumly]

PS2 > 45M in NA per NPD, > 45M in Europe per Screen Digest, and last I saw the 20m+ is pretty good as it's on it's last legs in Japan.

However, in the US & Europe it has another bump to it once the price drops assuming anybody's still making SW for the thing.

Hey did u post how many 100K sellers there were for each system?

 

[ggnoobIGN]

The only numbers Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft post are shipped numbers. How is that going to prove they outsold the 360 at RETAIL. Give it up.

Edit:
Microsoft already released their shipped numbers for Oct-Dec 2007. It was 4.3 Million units.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Nintendo gives away sold units? And Sony recently started to, too?

 

[doicare]

The only numbers Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft post are shipped numbers. How is that going to prove they outsold the 360 at RETAIL. Give it up.

Edit:
Microsoft already released their shipped numbers for Oct-Dec 2007. It was 4.3 Million units.

O dear, well you keep living in your bubble of bliss and when quarter after quarter the ps3 ships/sells more in europe then the xbox360 does then you keep telling yourself the 360 is out selling the ps3. Or you could get some contacts who have access to gfk data and see for yourself.

 

[schuelma]

Exactly, so the Wii will keep selling for another infinite years. I think the last post I made in response to someone citing an age-old and incorrect prediction of mine re: Nintendo called the Wii and DS unstoppable forces of Sales-Age destruction. That was sometime earlier this year (Sept. NPDs, I think), I vastly underestimated Wii's appeal to gamers outside of the GameCube owner (I think it's obvious Wii Sports appeals WAY beyond the "core gamer" Nintendo franchises).

Now be honest..did you really believe that re: Wii sales being a fad,or were you sort of "playing the role" on the podcast?

 

[reilo]

Did not know we knew so much. Post the total sales number for France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Norway and the UK.

Have to search a bit, give me time!

Italy:
Playstation 3: 150k

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=214533&highlight=italy

This thread says X360 in third place in September:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=192376&highlight=italy

France:

PS3 = 563,000
360 = 589,000

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228332&highlight=france

Spain till end of September:
NDS: 1.764.000
PSP: 1.292.000
Wii: 244.000
PS3: 218.000
360: 149.000

Germany:
LTD October 2007:
Wii 389,000
Xbox360 328,000
PS3 172,000

Germany marketshare as of January:
Wii: 7.5% share of the software market
X360: 6.0% share of the software market
PS3: 4.9% share of the software market

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215534&highlight=spain+playstation+sales

I'll keep looking. That thread needs updating.

 

[Shepherd]

O dear, well you keep living in your bubble of bliss and when quarter after quarter the ps3 ships/sells more in europe then the xbox360 does then you keep telling yourself the 360 is out selling the ps3. Or you could get some contacts who have access to gfk data and see for yourself.

Once again give up your sources or shutup about it.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Generally agree in N.A, but disagree in Japan.

In North America it's fairly obvious that the Wii is picking up a large selection of each, the Core gamer, and the "nongamer".

Taking a page from Pachter, the Wii is the secondary console to many, that they bought first. All the while gathering in a large portion of the mass market early on. We see this in sales of RE4, SMG, Zelda, Red Steel. Also don't forget that little gem Trauma Center. Atlus' highest selling title in America.

The masses are causing the fervor, but I'd wager that a good portion of American 360 owners have also, or are going to buy a Wii to go along with their 360.

Japan is entirely different. I laugh at the prospect of the PS3 making a "comeback" in Japan, but if Core gamers don't jump on the Wii there, they'll have to buy some console, otherwise it will seriously be a handheld market there.

 

[Lord Error]

Phew, Uncharted got a nice sales bump there. I was seriously starting to think the game would sell something like 70K in December and tank completely, probably sealing the fate for future lighthearted action adventures.

This however should put worldwide sales at around 550K, which I guess is pretty good, considering that the game allegedly was developed "on a very tight budget" (words from one of senior artists at ND) and that it being 1st party game, money doesn't have to get split between publisher and developer studio.

I hope it keeps selling at some decent rate in the coming months.

 

[rs7k]

O dear, well you keep living in your bubble of bliss and when quarter after quarter the ps3 ships/sells more in europe then the xbox360 does then you keep telling yourself the 360 is out selling the ps3. Or you could get some contacts who have access to gfk data and see for yourself.

Well, PM me some data, and I'll reply in this thread whether you're full of shit or not.

 

[speculawyer]

We’re not slowing down in 2008. The next versions of powerhouse franchises like “Grand Theft Auto,” “Resident Evil” and sports games like “Madden”, “FIFA”, and “Pro Evolution Soccer” open up a new arena for game play on Xbox 360. This year we will make great strides toward improving our brand appeal to consumers interested in more physical game play. With titles like “Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock,” “Rock Band” and “Scene It? Lights, Camera, Action” we’re creating interactive experiences on Xbox 360 for the entire family.[/I]

xbox 360 waggle-wand pretty much confirmed.

I can't wait for the waggle-wand demo with Jeff 'saved by the' Bell.

 

[Version 3.0]

And not only that, but I bet the situation for this generation is going to be the following, which is fucking awesome for software publishers:

1. Figure out how to create games that are awesome / sell well to the Wii audience. I find it hilarious that someone hasn't created an Uncharted or something for Wii (and I don't mean with the same graphics, but with the same theme...adventuring about like crazy), its really a market which hasn't been tapped yet.

2. Create FPS / Huge Graphical showcases on 360 and to a much lesser extent Ps3.

The money will roll in from these two sources if they get them right. It will be like a dream, two sources of huge revenue in one generation (excluding handhelds).

Yeah, maybe so. I'm not sure about the Wii, publishers seem so hesitant about putting forth any effort. If I had my wish, though: more FPS (like CoD3), more 3rd-person shooters (a la RE4), definitely Adventure-ish games, like Uncharted as you said. Look for genres that Nintendo doesn't do. Some strategy games or PC genre games that are mouse-driven would be fine. And if they just have to make mini-games, then don't put 50 shit games on a disc, put 5 or 6 GOOD ones. Rip off Wii Play's good games and make real games out of them: the Duck Hunt game, the Tank game, a full Billiards game, a better Pong/Hockey game.

As for the 360/PS3, we know what we're getting (and I'm not complaining): last gen on steroids. Bigger, prettier, and probably online.

 

[LukeSmith]

Now be honest..did you really believe that re: Wii sales being a fad,or were you sort of "playing the role" on the podcast?

Probably a bit of both, I genuinely did not expect the Wii to be as sustainable as it has been. I'm glad there's been some really solid stuff on Wii this year that appeals to me personally (Galaxy and Prime especially), since Wii Sports isn't something I'm interested in as a gamer.

 

[Shepherd]

Have to search a bit, give me time!

Italy:
Playstation 3: 150k

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=214533&highlight=italy

This thread says X360 in third place in September:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=192376&highlight=italy

France:

PS3 = 563,000
360 = 589,000

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228332&highlight=france

Spain till end of September:
NDS: 1.764.000
PSP: 1.292.000
Wii: 244.000
PS3: 218.000
360: 149.000

Germany:
LTD October 2007:
Wii 389,000
Xbox360 328,000
PS3 172,000

Germany marketshare as of January:
Wii: 7.5% share of the software market
X360: 6.0% share of the software market
PS3: 4.9% share of the software market

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215534&highlight=spain+playstation+sales

I'll keep looking. That thread needs updating.

Can you point to where is shows the PS3 outsold the 360 by more than 228,913 in December. Thanks.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

To clarify, yes I meant that the 360 has sold more than 9 million in NA LTD (in actuality, it's probably close to 10 million, since the 9.2 mil # is only for the US).

The PS3 is around 8 million WW LTD if we round up Japan to 2 million and assume they sold a million more units in Canada + PAL territories in 2007 than they did in the US (3.5 million for PAL, 2.5 million for US).

 

[schuelma]

Probably a bit of both, I genuinely did not expect the Wii to be as sustainable as it has been. I'm glad there's been some really solid stuff on Wii this year that appeals to me personally (Galaxy and Prime especially), since Wii Sports isn't something I'm interested in as a gamer.

Fair enough.

 

[reilo]

Can you point to where is shows the PS3 outsold the 360 by more than 228,913 in December. Thanks.

That's not what you asked for you fucking turd. This is the best we can get for Europe. Be grateful for even this much data. And there is an obvious trend going on.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I should have bookmarked those posts where people were predicting that Wii LTD would catch 360 LTD in NA in the last two months.

 

[doicare]

Once again give up your sources or shutup about it.

My source is gfk. Just chill out and watch the public data come in and in a years time after you've seen the quarterly numbers come in then you can talk to me about it.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Phew, Uncharted got a nice sales bump there. I was seriously starting to think the game would sell something like 70K in December and tank completely, probably sealing the fate for future lighthearted action adventures.

This however should put worldwide sales at around 550K, which I guess is pretty good, considering that the game allegedly was developed "on a very tight budget" (words from one of senior artists at ND) and that it being 1st party game, money doesn't have to get split between publisher and developer studio.

I hope it keeps selling at some decent rate in the coming months.

I read that it was over 20 million

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2007/11/16/naughty-dog-uncharted-couldve-been-bioshock-or-resistance/

 

[Shepherd]

To clarify, yes I meant that the 360 has sold more than 9 million in NA LTD (in actuality, it's probably close to 10 million, since the 9.2 mil # is only for the US).

The PS3 is around 8 million WW LTD if we round up Japan to 2 million and assume they sold a million more units in Canada + PAL territories in 2007 than they did in the US (3.5 million for PAL, 2.5 million for US).

Sonycowboy posted the Canadian LTD at too long ago. This is LTD through Nov 2007.

360 600k
Wii 560k
PS3 211k

 

[schuelma]

I should have bookmarked those posts where people were predicting that Wii LTD would catch 360 LTD in NA in the last two months.

I really don't think there were too many of those. Most people can count, afterall.

 

[ggnoobIGN]

Can someone post the extended software list?

 

[Version 3.0]

Suda started that yesterday. Go find him in Japan and bitch to him.

Well, that's closer to the truth in Japan than here. But he should wait until his game bombs worldwide before he throws a fit.

Also, I hear No More Heroes is outselling all his last-gen offerings over there. What, did he expect the Wii to drag his games out of the "weirdo" niche?

 

[supermackem]

To clarify, yes I meant that the 360 has sold more than 9 million in NA LTD (in actuality, it's probably close to 10 million, since the 9.2 mil # is only for the US).

The PS3 is around 8 million WW LTD if we round up Japan to 2 million and assume they sold a million more units in Canada + PAL territories in 2007 than they did in the US (3.5 million for PAL, 2.5 million for US).

Nicked this of rllmuk forum and is est given all data worldwide.

RLLMUK's Estimated Worldwide Sales (according to all available official and estimated data on January 18th)

Wii - 19,527,056
Xbox 360 - 16,246,170
PlayStation 3 - 9,248,694

 

[Vieo]

After this NPD, I really don't see what can resurrect PS3. Wii was in hardware shortages, while PS3 had a price-drop, piles of consoles on store shelves, three (Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, & CoD4) AAA games, a holiday gift-giving season push, and it STILL couldn't crack 1 million. It didn't even come close.

I mean, my god, even 360 outsold it.

360.

It's like I'm back in the 1990's and I'm seeing SNES being outsold by the Atari Jaguar.

 

[Version 3.0]

I should have bookmarked those posts where people were predicting that Wii LTD would catch 360 LTD in NA in the last two months.

Did anyone really say that, or did they say it could, if Nintendo had the supply? That's what I said, and I believe it, though it's not provable. If the Wii had done as well as the DS did (as it did much of the year), it would be within 100k now.

 

[rs7k]

Whatever the difference is between all the consoles doesn't really matter much for third parties. The gen is almost over in terms of developing engines, greenlighting new games. What you're seeing now is pretty much how it will play out for the rest of the gen, unless the PS3 goes back to selling 100k a month in the US.

If that happens, you'll see quiet cancellations and such.

 

[Raw64life]

Can someone post the extended software list?

December 2007:

WII CARNIVAL GAMES - 272,000
WII RESIDENT EVIL: UMBRELLA CHRONICLES - 147,600
WII NIGHTS: JOURNEY OF DREAMS - 60,800

NDS MARIO PARTY DS - 385,700
NDS FINAL FANTASY XII: REVENANT WINGS - 117,200

PS3 CALL OF DUTY 4 - 522,000
PS3 UNCHARTED: DRAKE'S FORTUNE - 206,000
PS3 ROCK BAND - 174,000
PS3 THE ORANGE BOX - 56,500
PS3 TIMESHIFT - 25,000

360 MASS EFFECT - 401,000
360 ROCK BAND - 463,000

-----

Rough LTDs:

WII GUITAR HERO III: LEGENDS OF ROCK - ~1.2 million
WII MARIO AND SONIC: OLYMPIC GAMES - ~940K
WII RESIDENT EVIL: UMBRELLA CHRONICLES - ~270K

NDS FINAL FANTASY XII: REVENANT WINGS - ~170K

360 MASS EFFECT - ~875K
360 ROCK BAND - ~775K
360 HD-DVD ADD ON - ~315K

PS3 CALL OF DUTY 4 - ~965K
PS3 UNCHARTED: DRAKE'S FORTUNE - ~325K
PS3 ROCK BAND - ~245K

-----

Hardware LTD - America:

NDS - 17.6 million
PSP - 10.5 million
360 - 9.2 million
WII - 7.4 million
PS3 - 3.2 million