Metalmurphy
Member
WoW is an MMO. People are already online, already have their credit cards tied to the account. It's easy to purchase and update. Apples to oranges imo.Sykra said:
NPD Sales Results For December 2010 [Up5: Some Kinect/Move Data]
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Opiate said:
I don't think anyone is making that claim, however, those claiming the overall sales were better than what's shown (especially if you think it breaks into the top 3) are the ones who need to provide the burden of proof.
Metalmurphy said:
I DO know what GT is.
But times change, tastes change and markets change. Hell, your own userbase can change.
As BoilersFan23 mentioned, GT3 supposedly had less content than 2 and yet sold amazingly. History has shown us this gen more than any other that streamlining your product usually results in better sales.
Who is talking about cutting existing content?
I'm going to assume, given PD's MO, that they're planning let's say 200 or so premium cars for GT6, and they'lll carry over whatever is in 5 to use in 6.
Instead of 200, make it 100 and choose the cars more carefully. Maybe PD should invest some time and money in research into which cars are wanted?
Use the website and do surveys. Get information from the existing userbase, find out what they want. They might find out that no one is touching Skylines anymore, so all of a suden they can stop creating 87 of them in every future version of Gran Turismo.
This is all hypothetical of course but you see what I'm getting at yeah?
Alienshogun said:
Need a hand ?
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...e_Sales_Were_Digital_In_Last_Three_Months.php
and no, DLC is not included. We're talking about fully fledged games.
Alienshogun said:
Maybe not, though. Again, there is another significant factor working against PC games here: that PC gaming's weakest markets are Japan and the US. It does much better in China, Korea, Europe, and a large swathe of developing markets (Brazil, etc).
By contrast, the US is, by a wide margin, Halo's strongest market. It would be like looking at Fifa Soccer sales in Europe and concluding that Soccer -- and the Playstation 3, which the franchise sells best on -- are dominating the market (not that either do terribly, mind you, just that they would look disproportionately good based on the perspective).
Alienshogun said:
If you are arguing that the sales are not "Better than what's shown," then you are by definition arguing that it underperformed digitally. In fact, you are arguing that it sold ~0 copies digitally. By contrast, Halo Reach did, in fact, sell 0 copies digitally, as you could only buy it at retail. 100% of its sales are recorded.
How much better did WoW do, with DD included? Gosh, I don't know. Again, I'm not convinced it would have bested Halo, as the US is Halo's strongest market while it is WoW's weakest. But would WoW have been much closer? Yes.
Let me put this another way: virtually no one but you is surprised or amazed that Halo beat WoW at retail in the United States. We are all, instead, arguing that you aren't looking at this the right way.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Kenka said:
That doesn't really prove any of the questions at hand, also from that article
gamasutra said:
Metalmurphy
Member
Yes, that's true, GT3 had less content then 2. But so did GT5 compared to GT4. If you think about it there's really only ~230 new cars, the rest is legacy content, and that includes some tracks. And I am SOOOO glad they made that decision.Why For? said:
But GT4 however had the most cars in any GT game and you can expect to GT6 to be similar. They're developments methods are pretty much similar. New engine, less content, but the hard part is done and it'll be easier to make content for it now.
Not to the same costumers base... the ones that already do have everything ready.jambo said:
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
EviLore said:
Code:
Technomancer
yo ******, anecdotal evidence time
Tech's WoW playing friend
?
Technomancer
how many people do you know online who bought Cataclysm throuhg DD?
Tech's Friend
Well
I know I did lol
Technomancer
really? thought you went midnight launch
Tech's Friend
Nah
I'd say at least a good 40:60 split
I mean a TON of people bought DD so they could play the moment the server was up
Anyone on the west coast who was playing when servers came up had to of bought DD in order to do itBrolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Opiate said:
What are you talking about? I'm not talking about digital sales, you PC guys are. I'm saying it's doubtful to me that DD sales would bump either of those games into the top 3, but I would imagine they would bump into the top 10.
You're second statement is what I'm saying, and I agree.
Haunted
Member
GT6 doesn't need more cars. It needs more premium cars. I for one hope they replace the PS2 models with current generation quality instead of adding new premium cars while keeping the PS2 models around just so marketing can trumpet lines like "now with 1200 cars! more than ever before!".Metalmurphy said:
edit: or they can keep the PS2 cars around but enable a "premium only" mode so I don't have to see the fuckers.
Alienshogun said:
No one argued with that in the first place, and I can genuinely say you don't understand the market if you honestly thought that WoW or SCII would beat Halo at retail in the US.
We were not arguing that WoW beat Halo at retail in the US. We have been arguing that you don't understand the market if you think that's a relevant comparison.
Guardian Bob
Member
PS3 deserved more sales.
Metalmurphy
Member
Haunted said:
Well, when I said more content, I meant "new" one. And yes, that includes standards upgraded to premium, something Kaz already said will be happening. I just hope they put the oldies on the top of the list, would love to drive this baby with cockpit view :lol
But they'll obviously be adding new "new" ones as well.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Opiate said:
I know far more people that play WoW than Halo, also as a Halo fan I see Reach as more or less bombing, I sincerely thought it would under perform in 2010 as a whole.
demosthenes
Member
gkryhewy said:
Good post :lol
Can't stand seeing crap like that.
Metalmurphy said:
GT turned a lot of my friends into Sony fanboys ever since GT1.
The only thing I ever heard them talk about what the tuning up of the car. They loved being able to generally pick the car they owned and tune the shit out of it without using real money, and 'drive it for real'.
This aspect of GT never has to leave. But why have soooooooooooo many cars? It's just not necessary. There's no reason GT6 couldn't be great with a total of say 300 cars. No reason whatsoever.
PD just needs to do some legitimate research into what the userbase wants. Given Europe is now the no.1consumer of GT, why is the car list so Japan-centric? Cut the driftwood and focus on great road cars. You obviously still need the Japanese tuner cars, but there's no need to have:
Skyline R32
Skyline R32 B-Spec
Skyline R32 B Spec II
Skyline R33
Skyline R33 etc. etc.
Do your research, find out which cars were the most popular and cut it down to the 3 or 4 most popular Skylines.
Want the game to do better in the US? Do some research find out what American's drive and what they WISH they were driving.
I truly believe culling the car list and researching it to find the right balance would make all the difference to both sales, cost andd ev time.
Haunted
Member
^^ Good post, Why For.
Well, glad we've cleared that up.
Oh yeah baby, sign me up for some of that shit. Never played GT for the high performance cars. It's all about vintage and production cars for me.Metalmurphy said:I just hope they put the oldies on the top of the list, would love to drive this baby with cockpit view :lol
So basically you're admitting that you're not only clueless about WoW and SCII sales (as well as the digital market as a whole), but Halo's sales as well.Alienshogun said:
Well, glad we've cleared that up.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Kenka said:
So I'm guessing not just Steam, but Games on Demand, XBLA, PSN, and WiiWare are kind of a big deal now.
Alienshogun said:
It's a good point but 58% of 29% is still 17% of the overall unit sales for the past three months. And it represents games purchsed through a non-retail plateform for PC and consoles.
You can argue further that September through end of November traditionally account for 30% of total sales during a year.
We could roughly say that during this period, 6% of all games sold in the market were dowloaded for either PC or consoles. How much of it is strictly PC I don't know but you realize that it probably represents a big load of bucks, huh ?
Downloaded sales matter. And we have good reasons to think that PC gets a large chunk of it (compare how many games are available on DD for both plateforms and we'll talk).
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Haunted said:
That's not what I'm saying at all, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
Kenka said:
Yeah, it's definitely a lot of money, but I (and I'm sure a lot of people here who aren't admitting it) figured SC2 and WoW would beat out Halo, both were HIGHLY anticipated titles (DD withstanding).
I wonder if they will ever release the DD numbers for those two.
_Alkaline_
Member
apana said:
Unless you're shooting or stabbing the shit outta the ratbird, don't expect it to sell all that well.
BoilersFan23
Member
I really don't think they'll be working with the western development side at all. I would believe that Kaz wants to keep the project to his team only to design it the way he wants to.tzare said:
Its difficult because its not like PD can hire tons of new programmers in order to make the project they wish. The amount of high end graphic programmers in Japan continues to shrink, compared to the west where many people are going to school learning high end graphics programming (kind of like in an article where Yoshida from SCE WWS mentions about the power shifting from Japan to the west). FFXIII had a similar problem too which probably explains why HD towns and so on could not be used.
Tons of games from Japan these days are getting made in the west instead, such as Castlevania, Devil May Cry, Dead Rising, Front Mission, Silent Hill, and so on, due to high end graphic programmers being on the west.
Kaz just has a dream of wanting pretty much every kind of car into a game. He's just really big into cars. I remember him wanting Formula 1 racers included too, but Sony no longer licenses F1.Why For? said:
It may be more practical to go to fewer cars, but he just wants pretty much every car imaginable in a game. I'm not really sure if few cars would go so well since I remember many complaining about GT5P only having like 70 or so cars in NA/EU? I could understand the need for more tracks, but having 70 or so was not bad.
_Alkaline_
Member
EviLore said:
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