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[hoos30]

Aren't apples being compared to oranges? Microsoft positioned Kinect as a console launch and treated it as such. Sony treats Move like an alternate control scheme for those who want it. I don't think Sony is shocked at their results, they know what they put into this and what Microsoft did differently. If Sony wanted Move to be a bigger hit they would have done a lot more. I feel like it's doing what they want it to - satisfy gamers who want some casual/hardcore motion action and allow PS3 to check off "It only does motion."

Sony shareholders will not be pleased when they get the bill for that checkbox.

 

[AdventureRacing]

I clear stated that it was a personal opinion, therefore theres no evidence to proove anything.

Getting clobbered in the market had nothing to do with a product quality. History tells us that a lot of high quality products had poor sales. Sales doesnt means something is good neither is true that a good product will always have good sales.

Where is the evidence that MS even spent more on marketing?

People continue to harp on this point. I'm just goign to repeat what i've said before.

Over what period was the 500 million in marketing spent? 1 week? 1 month? 1 year? the lifetime of the product?

How does that figure compare to other campaigns for entertainment products?

How much has sony spent on move? There have been lots of ads for it WW so i don't buy the argument that they spent hardly any.

If you can't answer these questions than i don't see how you can put kinects success down to purely advertising. Lets also not ignore that it has been shown that if people don't want something no amount of advertising will make them buy it (kin anyone?).

I clear stated that it was a personal opinion, therefore theres no evidence to proove anything.

Getting clobbered in the market had nothing to do with a product quality. History tells us that a lot of high quality products had poor sales. Sales doesnt means something is good neither is true that a good product will always have good sales.

The problem is that kinect is getting a pretty damn good reception as far as i can tell. The fact that it is in so many homes already just helps it with word of mouth.

If sony is relying on WOM to help move outsell kinect than they are in for a shock IMO.

Except that's not really the case. The MOVE is realistically at around 5M shipped WW while Kinect is at 8M shipped worldwide. Which really harpers back to what Opiate said, the Xbox is an extremely regional product.

I've said this in other threads but if you want to get an idea how they are performing just look at SW. Kinect SW is selling great in both the US and the UK. I think it may have even shown up in a few other charts as well where 360 doesn't perform so well.

Move software is bombing in Japan, bombing in the US, bombing in the UK and i haven't seen it showing up in pretty much any European charts (though some only go to top 5/10 so it is difficult).

I think there is no comparison at this point kinect is a much bigger success WW.

People thought Move and Kinect were going to be on equal footing? I bought and prefer Move but it was fairly obvious what was going to play out by the ways in which both companies were talking about their product.

Except pretty much no-one made this prediction until after they launched (dare i say you didn't either).

 

[Cipherr]

Aren't apples being compared to oranges? Microsoft positioned Kinect as a console launch and treated it as such. Sony treats Move like an alternate control scheme for those who want it. I don't think Sony is shocked at their results, they know what they put into this and what Microsoft did differently. If Sony wanted Move to be a bigger hit they would have done a lot more. I feel like it's doing what they want it to - satisfy gamers who want some casual/hardcore motion action and allow PS3 to check off "It only does motion."

Of....course.... all as planned right?

 

[Eteric Rice]

Off topic, but it looks like someone found a way of doing 3D on TVs without glasses!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uef17zOCDb8&feature=player_embedded

 

[GavinGT]

Not at all. Explain why them.

Front loaded = Lots of marketing = lots of initial sales (can lead to a long lasting success or not)

Sleeper hit (the way sony vision Move to be) = something that is released with little marketing and due to its quality increase their sales over time due to mouth to mouth buzz. - That's Sony strategy for move, not necessarily what will happen.

The Winner is obviously the one who have longer legs.

Them i posted a personal opinion and stated that. I PERSONALY think move is a better technology. Any problem with that?

Does Move really get much of that?

"Hey, you hear about the Move? It's like the Wiimote but better."

"Oh, like the Motion+?"

 

[Garcia]

Off topic, but it looks like someone found a way of doing 3D on TVs without glasses!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uef17zOCDb8&feature=player_embedded

LMAO ! He should've added some random tears running down his face just for the extra lulz .

 

[Neuromancer]

Given Sony's marketing lately it was probably a wise choice.

The gaiety derived from your post exceeded my self-control tolerances, good sir! You are to be applauded for your efforts!

 

[Gadfly]

I believe Xbox 360 is still in red ( cumulative wise) but you are right recently they are turning some nice profits every quarter.

What I wanted to highlight is that comparing sales number with ( very ) old systems for a ranking isn't very telling because market conditions has changed remarkably.
For instance huge "investments" ( losses ) of billion(s) weren't found until recently for the obvious reason that any gaming company ( not named Nintendo ) would be bankrupt by them.
I recall that Sega downfall, still considered spectacular to this day, totaled losses for slightly less than a billion in early 2000.

So if someone says that sales number for a second or third place console are abnormally high compared to the past generations, I always think that the losses incurred by those two systems were abnormal ( historically speaking).

Side note, a graph made by Jokeropia some months ago:

Source?

Edit: Jokeropia? are they reliable? where do they got this info from?

 

[a Master Ninja]

More significantly, in our view, the top two selling Kinect software titles outsold the top two Move titles by over 13:1."

Consumers aren't buying much Move software, and this statistic suggests they aren't flocking towards any specific title. So why are they buying Move controllers/what are they playing with them?

Are they happy with just Sports Champions? Are they using it to play old games that got patched? Were they purchased in preparation for big 2011 releases?

 

[legend166]

Source?

Edit: Jokeropia? are they reliable? where do they got this info from?

Jokeropia is a GAF poster. He probably made it from the earnings thread that used to exist. I'd consider it reliable.

 

[Megadragon15]

Consumers aren't buying much Move software, and this statistic suggests they aren't flocking towards any specific title. So why are they buying Move controllers/what are they playing with them?

Are they happy with just Sports Champions? Are they using it to play old games that got patched? Were they purchased in preparation for big 2011 releases?

Maybe they like a glowing stick that looks suspiciously like a Fisher-Price baby's toy.

 

[Gadfly]

Jokeropia is a GAF poster. He probably made it from the earnings thread that used to exist. I'd consider it reliable.

I don't recall Microsoft releasing xbox specific revenues. Is he attributing all Entertainment division gains/losses to xbox?

 

[GavinGT]

I don't recall Microsoft releasing xbox specific revenues. Is he attributing all Entertainment division gains/losses to xbox?

I haven't seen the numbers in a while, but I thought the entertainment division was down more than $7.5 billion. Looks more like he attributed half the losses to Xbox, or some fraction like that.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Are they happy with just Sports Champions?

Is there anything else worth buying for it? I don't see any specific game being praised in the same way Dance Central and Kinect Sports are.

 

[seady]

Is there anything else worth buying for it? I don't see any specific game being praised in the same way Dance Central and Kinect Sports are.

Even Kinectimals and Your Shape Fitness got more attention than Sports Champions.

The Move plays like the Wiimote, and they are not making any noticeable games that make use the Move exclusively, and push the power of the peripheral to its extreme. Plus, the game they released on it all feel very generic artistically. Almost all Move games feel like they would be shovelware on the Wii (The Shoot, The Fight, Kung Fu Rider, Start the Party etc).

If I have $100 to get the Move, I rather pay more to get a Wii package that comes with the whole system and two games with it.

 

[phisheep]

Front loaded = Lots of marketing = lots of initial sales (can lead to a long lasting success or not)

Sleeper hit (the way sony vision Move to be) = something that is released with little marketing and due to its quality increase their sales over time due to mouth to mouth buzz. - That's Sony strategy for move, not necessarily what will happen.

The Winner is obviously the one who have longer legs.

Resuscitating this one, although there's been a bunch of good comment on it in the meantime, as there's one thing we've missed talking about - that's where these long legs come from.

Now, I'm not taking sides on this, but the crunch point will - I think - be in a couple of months time when we know whether the word-of-mouth play experience for Kinect gives enough traction for extended sales. Like the Wii, that'll depend a lot on people playing at their friends houses, and so on: people not getting bored with it too quickly and, the experience feeling fresh to new players once the initial excitement wears off.

Because of the different target market, I think Kinect is in the driving position here - in that we'll get some feel for how it's going rather sooner than we will for Move. That's not to say it'll "win", whatever that means, but that what happens to Kinect in the short term will be the significant market indicator.

So, let's wait and see.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I rather pay more to get a Wii package that comes with the whole system and two games with it.

I did that myself this year.

Move is selling though, not as well as Kinect but a fifth of the 1.2m PS3s came with Move. Strange.

 

[CadetMahoney]

With MS approaching ~15 million paid subs it has to be a place Sony is certainly looking at to make additional profit line.

I doubt Sony won't get a serious backlash for taking away the free online bullet point.

If this is the case, why has Sony only made 41 million dollars in the last 6 months? 41 million on sales of ~2 Billion is a 2% profit margin. That falls somewhere between "Razor thin" and "non existant" margins by technology standards.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying the empirical evidence thus far doesn't support your position. It's entirely possible that they made 300 million (arbitrarily chosen value) this quarter and I'll change my tune if so, but thus far, the profits we should be seeing if everything is working aren't there. That leads to the conclusion that everything isn't working, and if so, adding a 100 dollar price cut on top of it isn't likely to allow for profitability.

Basically Pachter is trolling Sony getting everyone waiting for a price drop that will never come holding off potential purchases. . . and when it doesn't come they buy a 360 instead. Pachter.

 

[yurinka]

BTW, Move 4 millions mark is from November. And the Kinect 8 Million marks are from January.

So they can't be compared because the Move number doesn't include Christmas sales. And about Christmas, we only have US numbers. The market where MS is best positioned and the were Sony is worst positioned.

Let's hope Sony updates their worldwide sales numbers up to the end of the year soon.

Consumers aren't buying much Move software, and this statistic suggests they aren't flocking towards any specific title. So why are they buying Move controllers/what are they playing with them?

Are they happy with just Sports Champions? Are they using it to play old games that got patched? Were they purchased in preparation for big 2011 releases?

We have to consider that Move also has its hardcore side, in addition to the casual side that has Kinect. I think it's important to wait its first big hardcore games to notice its real impact. In retail casual games, they have mainly Sports Champions, but in hardcore games they mainly have old patched games.

In my case, I bought it because I was curious to play existing games I already had and were going to receve Move patch (Heavy Rain, Flower, RE5) and to check the demos of the first Move games in addition to some digital game (you know, that more than the half US gaming market not covered by Pachter).

First games I will buy with Move support are 2011 games: LBP2, Dead Space 2 (special edition), Killzone 3, etc. I supouse a lot of people will buy it once it had a better game support in the hardcore side.

Will buy some current Move games like Time Crisis, Sport Champions or Echocrome II when cheaper.

 

[plagiarize]

Source?

Edit: Jokeropia? are they reliable? where do they got this info from?

reliable or not it's a meaningless graph for number of reasons.

microsoft do not report the earnings of their video game business. they report the earnings of their 'entertainment' division which includes other things which may or may not be eating into those earnings.

'cumulative' is a totally meaningless statistic to investors, to microsoft and to anyone that understands the way businesses work. fanboys love it though.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Consumers aren't buying much Move software, and this statistic suggests they aren't flocking towards any specific title. So why are they buying Move controllers/what are they playing with them?

Are they happy with just Sports Champions? Are they using it to play old games that got patched? Were they purchased in preparation for big 2011 releases?

Actually, I think a better question is, 'while MS has claimed sell-through of over five million WW by end of year for Kinect, why has Sony not similarly committed to specific claims of its sell-through numbers for Move?' No Move software seems to be doing remarkably well, even relative to its WW shipping numbers claimed at the end of November. If it was, Sony would have stated something by now.

 

[szaromir]

reliable or not it's a meaningless graph for number of reasons.

microsoft do not report the earnings of their video game business. they report the earnings of their 'entertainment' division which includes other things which may or may not be eating into those earnings.

'cumulative' is a totally meaningless statistic to investors, to microsoft and to anyone that understands the way businesses work. fanboys love it though.

I think "cumulative" graph builds investors' confidence in the company, ie if you can expect good return on current investements in future. That's why Apple or Google announcements are usually met with big enthusiasm, because historically they have made a lot of profit in many markets that they entered.

 

[RubberJohnny]

Correct. Brand loyalty is essentially a myth in this industry.

If your only talking about mainstream audiences, sure.

Bollocks.

I don't know where this idea that mainstream audiences are fickle and hardcore audiences are loyal comes from, but it's seriously deluded. If the hardcore are so loyal, why did the audience for the PS2 not move over to the PS3, why did the Dreamcast fail, what about the Gamecube?

If a company that made games you liked suddenly started making shit games, would you keep buying them out of some form of loyalty to an intangible legal entity, or would you buy some better games made by a different company, like a normal fucking person?

People confuse fanboyism or cheerleading, which is really just post-purchase rationalisation, with loyalty. Hardcore gamers are no more loyal than mainstream gamers.

Stockholm syndrome, as exhibited by the Sonic franchise, doesn't count.

 

[TheOddOne]

Bollocks.

I don't know where this idea that mainstream audiences are fickle and hardcore audiences are loyal comes from, but it's seriously deluded. If the hardcore are so loyal, why did the audience for the PS2 not move over to the PS3, why did the Dreamcast fail, what about the Gamecube?

If a company that made games you liked suddenly started making shit games, would you keep buying them out of some form of loyalty to an intangible legal entity, or would you buy some better games made by a different company, like a normal fucking person?

People confuse fanboyism or cheerleading, which is really just post-purchase rationalisation, with loyalty. Hardcore gamers are no more loyal than mainstream gamers.

Stockholm syndrome, as exhibited by the Sonic franchise, doesn't count.

Excellent post, just excellent.

 

[Jokeropia]

Source?

Edit: Jokeropia? are they reliable? where do they got this info from?

Like legend166 said, the figures are from the earnings thread. Specifically this post.

Sony's and Microsoft's figures are from their respective Game divisions, which unfortunately does get obscured when they combine them with other related products. It's as close as it gets, though.

Anyway, I've now added Nintendo's historical figures from 1981 as well as Sony's Game division numbers from the first two years.

Note: Nintendo's fiscal years before 1990 ended August 31, while 1990 and onwards ended March 31. Thus, FY/E 1990 is only 7 months.

Exchange rates for 1981 to 1997 were gotten from here.

 

[CadetMahoney]

If a company that made games you liked suddenly started making shit games, would you keep buying them out of some form of loyalty to an intangible legal entity, or would you buy some better games made by a different company, like a normal fucking person?

PS360 seem about the same game-wise, so there's no one without any games. Early in the PS3 lifecycle there was a drought though, unfortunatley you didn't stop hearing the insane hype for upcoming releases (Heavenly Sword etc.) + some rocky-esque comeback sales on their release.

Damn. I always thought Sony was unstoppable. Means next gen will be very interesting.

It's taken you five years to realize this?

Gen ain't over till Sony says it is, 10 year plan dude.

I hope 2011 gets better for PS3. They are pushing out every goddamn franchise they got this year.

Hopefully the pirates don't eat into sales, otherwise the best you could hope for is a hardware sales boost.

 

[Maxwell House]

Well, lets see... Their intentions are different, their functionality is so seemingly different as to be completely unrelatable; no one outside of these forums (ie. the mainstream, the ones who matter) see them as the same at all. Ask them.

They are not in direct competition with one another. It would be closer to say that Move is competing against the Classic Controller or, I don't know, the new Donkey Kong game; Kinect is the only one actively competing with the Wii itself. Yes, business strategy, positioning, and intent matter. Superficially saying, "Well, they both involve moving" is stupid. You cannot remove corporate planning and strategy from decisions, particularly one as vast in ambition as Kinect. We've never seen anything like it in this industry's history. To compare it to Move is crazy.

You can't possibly believe any of this crap. Do you think MS and Sony aren'tlooking at Kinect vs Move sales when analyzing the sales performance of each device? Of course they are. I guarantee that MS specifically includes Move as direct competition for Kinect when doing their sales analysis, business forecasting, etc. and that Sony similarly keeps tabs on Kinect sales when doing any sort of Move analysis.

Sony and MS definitely think Move and Kinect are direct competition. It is unbelievable to me that you are trying to say any different.

 

[Kenka]

More than 1 billion per year on average ! That's huge Ô_ô

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Are they happy with just Sports Champions? Are they using it to play old games that got patched? Were they purchased in preparation for big 2011 releases?

I got a PS3 for Christmas this year and it came with Move and Sports Championship. I haven't really felt the need to pick up another Move title just yet, mostly because I just haven't found a game I want to play that supports it.

I really feel like Sony needs to be a lot more proactive in pushing Move and supporting it. I would love to see options for Move pointer controls in the major TPS and FPS releases, and past ones. I don't see why pointer controls aren't going to be in Uncharted 3, or why they don't patch in support for them in 1 and 2. I wonder if it would be worth it for them to throw money 3rd parties way and get Pointer control support patched into the CoD games, or other big FPS/TPS games that have already come out.

Basically they just need to get it out there, and into core games as well. There are core applications for move, and they just need to get it as an option into as many games where its applicable as they can. Obviously they shouldn't shoehorn stuff in where it doesn't belong, but there are options out there.

 

[Future]

Move into core games is a terrible idea. What they need is unique experiences using move that you can't find anywhere else. Think anyone is gonna give a damn about move control in killzone 3. Hell no

The surprising thing with kinect is... Well it's actually not bad. It feels different from the wii right off the bat. Has some futuristic qualities, has games that feel different, and it delivers this immediately to people that test it out in stores. Move has a been there done that feel, and everyone knew this goin in. Sometimes I think Sony is just trying not to succeed

 

[Four_Chamber]

Move into core games is a terrible idea. What they need is unique experiences using move that you can't find anywhere else. Think anyone is gonna give a damn about move control in killzone 3. Hell no

The surprising thing with kinect is... Well it's actually not bad. It feels different from the wii right off the bat. Has some futuristic qualities, has games that feel different, and it delivers this immediately to people that test it out in stores. Move has a been there done that feel, and everyone knew this goin in. Sometimes I think Sony is just trying not to succeed

I agree with you on the bolded part. I think these motion peripheral sales will not be significantly catalyzed by inclusion in "core" games. Adding on Kinect/Move capability to core games won't do much- the average casual gamer isn't suddenly going to pick up Halo or Killzone due to motion control inclusion. Just not a good strategy in my opinion.

 

[Alx]

Move into core games is a terrible idea. What they need is unique experiences using move that you can't find anywhere else. Think anyone is gonna give a damn about move control in killzone 3. Hell no

The surprising thing with kinect is... Well it's actually not bad. It feels different from the wii right off the bat. Has some futuristic qualities, has games that feel different, and it delivers this immediately to people that test it out in stores. Move has a been there done that feel, and everyone knew this goin in. Sometimes I think Sony is just trying not to succeed

I think Sony knew perfectly that they weren't bringing anything really new with Move. They only wanted to add a bullet point on the PS3 features list. After all it's their main communication motto, "it does everything", so it has to do the same thing the Wii does, among others.

 

[Celine]

Like legend166 said, the figures are from the earnings thread. Specifically this post.

Sony's and Microsoft's figures are from their respective Game divisions, which unfortunately does get obscured when they combine them with other related products. It's as close as it gets, though.

Anyway, I've now added Nintendo's historical figures from 1981 as well as Sony's Game division numbers from the first two years.

http://i53.tinypic.com/2elxeyo.png

Note: Nintendo's fiscal years before 1990 ended August 31, while 1990 and onwards ended March 31. Thus, FY/E 1990 is only 7 months.

Exchange rates for 1981 to 1997 were gotten from here.

There is something I don't understand.

EDIT:
Nevermind, I'm dumb. SCE loss the first year must be very small with that scale.
Thanks for the graph, saved.

 

[yurinka]

Move into core games is a terrible idea. What they need is unique experiences using move that you can't find anywhere else. Think anyone is gonna give a damn about move control in killzone 3. Hell no

So Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition sucks when compared to normal RE4, nope? In terms of controls, appealing for non-hardcore gamers, etc.

I suggest to check TTP's video about Move controls in Killzone 3. It works great, and it can add a lot to several hardcore HD genres like FPS or TPS like happened with RE4 in Wii.

So in addition to the casual games, I think a lot of hardcore gamers can be interested in Move. I think it has been already proven it works great for both.

 

[apana]

So Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition sucks when compared to normal RE4, nope? In terms of controls, appealing for non-hardcore gamers, etc.

RE4 is horrible with normal controllers, at least for me. I can't play it that way.

 

[AdventureRacing]

I don't know where this idea that mainstream audiences are fickle and hardcore audiences are loyal comes from, but it's seriously deluded. If the hardcore are so loyal, why did the audience for the PS2 not move over to the PS3, why did the Dreamcast fail, what about the Gamecube?

I'm not saying i disagree with your general sentiment but i think this could be because then hardcore segment of the gaming market is tiny.

So Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition sucks when compared to normal RE4, nope? In terms of controls, appealing for non-hardcore gamers, etc.

I suggest to check TTP's video about Move controls in Killzone 3.

I'm pretty sure thats not what he said. It's not about whether or not the controls work but whether or not consumers will really care.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Move into core games is a terrible idea. What they need is unique experiences using move that you can't find anywhere else. Think anyone is gonna give a damn about move control in killzone 3. Hell no

150% wrong in that post. Pointer controls shit all over dual analogs. People need to get over their fear and accept that there is a change coming.

The sooner dual analog aiming dies for TPS and FPS the better. Besides how is adding it as an option for those people who want to use it a bad idea.

Giving the player more control options is NEVER a bad thing.

As has been said RE4 Wii is infinitely better than the other versions of RE4. Dead Space with pointer controls would have been amazing, as would adding them to Uncharted 1 and 2.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I'm pretty sure thats not what he said. It's not about whether or not the controls work but whether or not consumers will really care.

This is an incredible shallow and backwards way of thinking.

What if we changed that to dual analogs in the N64/PS1 days? And don't retort with BUT dual analogs were better controls because Pointer controls are better than dual analog.

Again how does giving the consumer/player more options in controls hurt anything?

 

[MYE]

Think anyone is gonna give a damn about move control in killzone 3.

People like me who would rather have a kick in the balls than play a precision shooter with a dual analog controller will.

Seriously, fuck that horrible shit and bless whatever pushes games away from that horrid control method.

 

[Future]

150% wrong in that post. Pointer controls shit all over dual analogs. People need to get over their fear and accept that there is a change coming.

The sooner dual analog aiming dies for TPS and FPS the better. Besides how is adding it as an option for those people who want to use it a bad idea.

Giving the player more control options is NEVER a bad thing.

As has been said RE4 Wii is infinitely better than the other versions of RE4. Dead Space with pointer controls would have been amazing, as would adding them to Uncharted 1 and 2.

No one will care. The game is designed around the dual shock. People will play it on the dual shock. They won't buy a move to play this, and if they have a move chances are they will still use the dual shock. Of course there will be the few that do use it, just like a few people bought a move this holiday, but these numbers will be insignificant.

There is a reason nintendo decided to go all in with the wii and no longer design games for controllers. You need experiences tailored from the ground up for these products (ie dance central) or else forget it. Who is gonna be convinced to buy a move after purchasing the game and playing it with a dual shock. It's games like sorcery that have a chance to drive sales of this thing

 

[JaxJag]

People like me who would rather have a kick in the balls than play a precision shooter with a dual analog controller will.

Seriously, fuck that horrible shit and bless whatever pushes games away from that horrid control method.

I'm with you, I can not stand motion controls.

If all games become fully motion controlled, that will be the day I take up a new hobby.

 

[AdventureRacing]

This is an incredible shallow and backwards way of thinking.

What the fuck does that even mean? So because i don't think consumers will care that makes me shallow?

What if we changed that to dual analogs in the N64/PS1 days? And don't retort with BUT dual analogs were better controls because Pointer controls are better than dual analog.

Again how does giving the consumer/player more options in controls hurt anything?

Where did i say it would hurt anything? I'm assuming Sony's goal is to, you know, expand their audience and maybe sell some extra software.

Simply adding in move support to their regular software won't achieve that.

I don't give a shit which control scheme is better and that is completely irrelevant to what i posted.

Edit: I'm also pretty sure that dual analog games were made to be quite a bit different to what came before it. On top of that motion controls are an entirely new beast and a much bigger change than dual analogs. That is why you need to make games specifically for move to bring in new consumers.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Off topic, but it looks like someone found a way of doing 3D on TVs without glasses!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uef17zOCDb8&feature=player_embedded

heh, I thought Sony had the patent for glass-less 3d.

it takes a console to underperform to EXPOSE that companies fanboys. if MS was doing terribly, some of the people that appear to be quite rational in this thread would be exposed as being 360 fanboys because they'd be making the same kind of rationalisations and doing the same kind of spinning some Sony fans are doing in this one.

don't think though that Microsoft's and Nintendo's fanboys aren't disconnected from reality though. it's just a coincidence that their version of reality has lined up with planet Earth temporarily.

that's why we can't spot the crazy ones amongst the ones that wouldn't contradict reality.

but they're there and there's no arguing that. there's nothing about Sony as a company that makes it attract loons... it's just their stumbling performance that exposes the loons that wear blue team colours.

Interesting theory but I think many ppl already think Sony has the worst of the lot by miles. Unfortunate sales circumstances but at least NPD is still entertaining despite figures not being released straight away.

 

[Boney]

I'm with you, I can not stand motion controls.

If all games become fully motion controlled, that will be the day I take up a new hobby.

What is wrong with ze pointers?

 

[yurinka]

No one will care. The game is designed around the dual shock. People will play it on the dual shock. They won't buy a move to play this, and if they have a move chances are they will still use the dual shock. Of course there will be the few that do use it, just like a few people bought a move this holiday, but these numbers will be insignificant.

There is a reason nintendo decided to go all in with the wii and no longer design games for controllers. You need experiences tailored from the ground up for these products (ie dance central) or else forget it. Who is gonna be convinced to buy a move after purchasing the game and playing it with a dual shock. It's games like sorcery that have a chance to drive sales of this thing

So then:
Why RE4 sold way better in Wii than in PS2 or GC?
Why people who even had in other platforms bought it again?
If people agreed it improved the experience for these shooter genres why isn't going to be important in a platform where FPS and TPS are really important genres in terms of sales?

Sony has been succesful mainly in Europe with casual games like Singstar, Eyetoy, Buzz, etc. but they always focused in the hardcore market.

 

[Shiggy]

So then:
Why RE4 sold way better in Wii than in PS2 or GC?

The PS2 version sold 2.2 million, the Wii version 1.7 million. Nonetheless, your argument still stands.

 

[yurinka]

The PS2 version sold 2.2 million, the Wii version 1.7 million. Nonetheless, your argument still stands.

Yep. I said better instead of more considering console userbase when released, PS2 version being a downsized current gen port instead of a previous gen upgraded game, comparing the game vs the main market of the console, etc.

I think PS2 version did it ok, but Wii version sales were harder to believe before releasing it.

 

[[Nintex]]

Just for the Sony fans out there, spelling product and company names like PLAYSTATION and MOVE in all caps does not increase sales or mouth to mouth marketing. Just another one of those crazy SEGAAAA habits that seems to stick around. That's just how I see this thing overall. Sony and MS ran with the SEGA strategy, Tom Kalinske is awesome and it's great if you want to knock down your opponent for a week or a year but in the long term you can't keep spending to stay ahead of the game.

 

[Karma]

150% wrong in that post. Pointer controls shit all over dual analogs. People need to get over their fear and accept that there is a change coming.

The sooner dual analog aiming dies for TPS and FPS the better. Besides how is adding it as an option for those people who want to use it a bad idea.

Giving the player more control options is NEVER a bad thing.

As has been said RE4 Wii is infinitely better than the other versions of RE4. Dead Space with pointer controls would have been amazing, as would adding them to Uncharted 1 and 2.

Love to see a match between motion players and dual analog players. I would put my money on the dual analog guys.

 

[Curufinwe]

As has been said RE4 Wii is infinitely better than the other versions of RE4.

It's infinitely easier, not infinitely better. Not everyone finds aiming with an analog stick that difficult, and not everyone thinks RE 4 looks better with a giant cursor hopping about the screen.