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[Welfare]

And that's what I am talking about. KH 3D HD, KH3 prequel and Chi movies are only coming to PS4, not X1, irony when KH3 is coming to X1. Make you wonder SE give up on X1

Yeah, edited my post. Thought 2.8 had more to it than those.

Now this is just me, but it could be skipping the XB1 because of how SE thinks the game will perform overall. If they aren't expecting big numbers for the PS4 version, then maybe they aren't bothering with an XB1 version.

3D wasn't a big performer, so an HD update will probably sell less than it. Basically them learning from the XB1 version of Type O HD.

 

[allan-bh]

I think PC is also considered a "home platform" since they specifically did not say the word for "console" in Japanese and I think that it certainly hadn't been confirmed for XB1 as others said it had.

Never saw this term being used for a PC game, "home platforms" strongly implies consoles.

 

[demigod]

Never saw this term being used for a PC game, "home platforms" strongly implies consoles.

Do you lug your PC around?

 

[Vena]

Do you lug your PC around?

Laptops are fairly easy to lug around, yes.

 

[RexNovis]

What's your point? Franchise sells pretty well in the West.

I'm saying it's odd to champion Resident Evil as proof of Xbox receiving Japanese support when the next entry in the weird hasn't even been announced let alone confirmed for the platform.

Xenoverse sold a fuckton more in the West than any recent Dragon Quest or Star Ocean title.

In the US sure but not in the west. Dragon Quest is pretty popular in EU and the last mainline entries (DQVIII and DQIX) that were released sold quite well.

I said Naruto was a maybe. But I am pretty sure the new Naruto will outsell Star Ocean 5 in the West.

I was talking about Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts. But yes it Naruto is likely to sell more than Star Ocean.

Are you being purposefully obtuse here? The game is (timed) exclusive to PS4 cause Sony paid for it. Why do you think Tomb Raider was timed exclusive to Xbone? Hint: It wasn't because they just felt like it.

You are the one who introduced the qualifier of paid exclusives not counting. I was talking about all Japanese games getting released in the West. You changed the focus not me. Furthermore you act like it has been confirmed that it is a timed exclusive that will be coming to XB1 when that is by no means confirmed or assured.

Another Sony exclusivity deal. Are you not reading what I'm writing?

Again I never stipulated only non exclusive deals. I was talking about overall Japanese fake support in the west you were the one who moved the goal post to better serve your argument of "relevance" despite exclusivity deals having absolutely nothing to do with a game's "relevance" in the west.

I already weighed in on 2.whatever. It'll be a niche seller at best. Might even bomb.

Ok so a rerelease that serves as a prologue to KH3 isn't a "relevant" title because you think it'll sell poorly but KH3 itself is despite Xbox owners receiving no prior entries in the series. He can you not see the ridiculous of that?

I've made my point perfectly clear. Your posts are filled with biased and inaccurate information.

What you've made clear is that you are only interested in your own definition of "relevance" and that you will change the criteria for consideration when anything goes against your desired view of the current situation for Japanese support in the west.

Indeed. The closest DQs were DQIX and DQVIII but those are off by at least a million outside of Japan (~1 million in the west total for the DQs). And Star Ocean is nowhere near even that.

I was under the impression that DQVIII sold much better in the EU than it did in the states. I could be mistaken here though I can't really find any concrete info on regional sales for the title.

Anyway the pint is the last mainline entries that saw release on console in the west sold within the ballpark of the Dragonball and Naruto franchises so they are certainly comparable.

 

[Steroyd]

I've had this same argument with Nintendo fans who think NX will be a huge success in the West cause it'll have Etrian Odyssey or whatever. These niche Japanese games don't do much in the West. Xbone missing out on some of these games ain't a big deal. I doubt anyone at Microsoft is crying over it.

Missing out on one or two in isolation isn't a big deal but if you miss out on a lot of these titles then it all adds up, that's a large part of why were seeing 70/30 80/20 sales ratios in favour of PS4 of Japaneese games that do launch on both in the first place.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Laptops are fairly easy to lug around, yes.

Small, light laptops are easy to lug around. This one (and laptops with beefy specs, in general), on the other hand...

 

[RexNovis]

Never saw this term being used for a PC game, "home platforms" strongly implies consoles.

It's a matter of translation. In Japan the equivalent of "console" has a specific meaning basically "television game system" and the word for console was not used. The words translated as "home platform" tends to include any platform within the home on which games can be played not limited specifically to devices connected to the television. This includes PCs. The fact that they avoided saying the far more commonly used "television game system" moniker is telling.

 

[demigod]

Laptops are fairly easy to lug around, yes.

Is why its called a laptop. Normally people associate a PC as a desktop. And yes, I knew someone was going to come in and say what you did, lol.

 

[boredandlazy]

Small, light laptops are easy to lug around. This one (and laptops with beefy specs, in general), on the other hand...

My Clevo/Sager etc. P650SG is actually quite small and that has a 980m plus a core i7 in it. Cooling could be better though.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I imagine 2.8 skipping Xbox One is the closest we'll ever get to finding out what Square thought of Type-0 HD's PS4/XBO split.

 

[Jigorath]

What you've made clear is that you are only interested in your own definition of "relevance"

I've always defined relevance for how a title sells. I don't think I've shifted from that, and nothing in any of your arguments indicates that I've shifted from that.

and that you will change the criteria for consideration when anything goes against your desired view of the current situation for Japanese support in the west.

And just LOL at this. My "desired view" is what? I don't give two fucks whether or not a Japanese game appears on Xbox. Almost every Japanese game I play is on a handheld.

Missing out on one or two in isolation isn't a big deal but if you miss out on a lot of these titles then it all adds up, that's a large part of why were seeing 70/30 80/20 sales ratios in favour of PS4 of Japaneese games that do launch on both in the first place.

There's always going to be a pretty big split between PS and Xbox when it comes to sales of Japanese games. Especially this gen where PS4 is a lot more popular. That's just market reality.

 

[Vena]

Is why its called a laptop. Normally people associate a PC as a desktop. And yes, I knew someone was going to come in and say what you did, lol.

Small, light laptops are easy to lug around. This one (and laptops with beefy specs, in general), on the other hand...

Oh I know laptops can get big and that they aren't a PC when people think "PC gaming", but you can still get a reliably decent gaming experience on even an ultrabook in this day and age if you are willing to sacrifice performance.

But my response was meant to be more tongue-in-cheek.

 

[Ghost Slayer]

I imagine 2.8 skipping Xbox One is the closest we'll ever get to finding out what Square thought of Type-0 HD's PS4/XBO split.

Nier Automata skipping X1 too. They really don't have confidence with niche games on X1

 

[demigod]

Small, light laptops are easy to lug around. This one (and laptops with beefy specs, in general), on the other hand...

Man I miss my G72/73 can't remember. I would bring it with me for work almost daily since I was out of town a lot. The day that I didn't bring it, it gets stolen.

 

[On Demand]

I've had this same argument with Nintendo fans who think NX will be a huge success in the West cause it'll have Etrian Odyssey or whatever. These niche Japanese games don't do much in the West. Xbone missing out on some of these games ain't a big deal. I doubt anyone at Microsoft is crying over it.

People still doubting these kinds of games? Ok.

I had a long argument with a certain someone about this awhile back. Don't really want to get to deep into it again.

PS4 getting all these JRPG's has to matter somewhat. The point is they all start to add up. Eventually that's alot of games not on XB1. One niche game won't do anything, but have a bunch of them has to make the PS4 a better buy to certain consumers. I would think having significantly less games on your platform does matter, niche or not. The trend doesn't seem be changing this year with PS4 getting many more JRPG's still (some good ones too!).

It's the overall library that people look at you know.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Man I miss my G72/73 can't remember. I would bring it with me for work almost daily since I was out of town a lot. The day that I didn't bring it, it gets stolen.

Damn, my condolences...

 

[RexNovis]

tbf, doesn't dbz handily outsell those specific 2 in the west currently, if xenoverse got to 2.5 mil WW while only doing around ~300k (iirc) combined in Japan?

The only figures I can find are for Dragin Quest VIII and Dragon Quest IX.

In US & EU

DQVIII: 1.3 1.2 million
DQIX: 1.2 million

WW (including Asia)
DQVIII: 5.1 million
DQIX: 5.7 million

So considering the only figures we have for Xenoverse are its 2.5 million WW figure (unless someone wants to provide US+EU figures) I would say that Dragon Quest is a substantially bigger franchise.

Star Ocean 4, however, appears to have sold substantially less than I thought it had so yes it's likely bigger than Star Ocean at this point. Which surprises me but hey I'll admit when I'm wrong.

Edit: fixed incorrect # die to math error

 

[Welfare]

The only figures I can find are for Dragin Quest VIII and Dragon Quest IX.

In US & EU

DQVIII: 1.3 million
DQIX: 1.2 million

WW (including Asia)
DQVIII: 5.1 million
DQIX: 5.7 million

So considering the only figures we have for Xenoverse are its 2.5 million WW figure (unless someone wants to provide US+EU figures) I would say that Dragon Quest is a substantially bigger franchise.

DB is a pretty huge brand outside of the Asia market, and that 2.5m figure is from back in April 2015. DB has probably outsold those two DQ games in the US+EU by now.

 

[Jigorath]

One niche game won't do anything, but have a bunch of them has to make the PS4 a better buy to certain consumers.

Consumers that care about these sorts of niche Japanese game are never going to buy an Xbox. It's not like 360 had a fanbase for this sort of stuff despite all of Microsoft's moneyhats. It's not even like PS4 has built some huge library of Japanese games. The 3DS, PC, and Vita all currently have much stronger libraries in that regard. Most of these niche Japanese games on PS4 are getting ported to PC anyways.

Yes people who care a lot about these niche Japanese games are going to choose a PS4 over an Xbone. Obviously. I just don't see any reason to consider that a particularly large audience in the US.

There's a pretty big reason why Sony switched gears from being a Japanese publisher to mostly a Western publisher.

 

[RexNovis]

DB is a pretty huge brand outside of the Asia market, and that 2.5m figure is from back in April 2015. DB has probably outsold those two DQ games in the US+EU by now.

Do we have any figures for US+EU? What is the LTD in the US?

 

[Jigorath]

In US & EU

DQVIII: 1.3 million

Source? I can't find anything on DQVIII.

 

[RexNovis]

Source? I can't find anything on DQVIII.

Source

510k US

690k EU

I made a math error it's apparently 1.2 million not 1.3. Correcting in my original post.

 

[Welfare]

Do we have any figures for US+EU? What is the LTD in the US?

I think DBX is one of the few games we have no info on, unfortunately, except that it did above 200k (higher than Order 1886) and below 500k (below Evolve) in February.

 

[Jigorath]

Source

510k US

690k EU

I made a math error it's apparently 1.2 million not 1.3. Correcting in my original post.

Err that site is sourcing Chartzzzzz.

 

[RexNovis]

I think DBX is one of the few games we have no info on, unfortunately, except that it did above 200k (higher than Order 1886) and below 500k (below Evolve) in February.

Do you think the title had legs enough to put it over the 510k LTD sales for DQVIII in US?

 

[Welfare]

Do you think the title had legs enough to put it over the 510k LTD sales for DQVIII in US?

I mean, it went from 1.5m shipped to 2.5m shipped in a month's time, so unless Euro/ROTW is pulling some serious work, I think it passed 510k.

Now of course, some kind soul could inform us on where it is at at the end of 2015.

 

[Shin-Ra]

No surprises that FF XV split will be 80/20. Still that 20% can justify the port that It's relative simple due to the same architecture.

S-E could more than make up that 20% loss in the strongest Xbox territories by dealing exclusive advertising support from SCE worldwide, in addition to cutting the multi-API development complexities on a very complex game.

If Destiny 2 and one or two other SCE-supported games get delayed from 2H 2016, they'd probably be willing to give it a strong push during that period.

 

[RexNovis]

Err that site is sourcing Chartzzzzz.

There are other sources citing numbers very close to those figures for DQVIII and DQIX from earlier dates. I've inquired about numbers from another source as well. Hopefully will hear back some time later today.

I mean, it went from 1.5m shipped to 2.5m shipped in a month's time, so unless Euro/ROTW is pulling some serious work, I think it passed 510k.

Now of course, some kind soul could inform us on where it is at at the end of 2015.

Fair enough but I think it's completely fair to say they are comparable in the west sales wise given what we know so far. Anyways, here's hoping we get some concrete info then.

 

[On Demand]

It's not even like PS4 has built some huge library of Japanese games. The 3DS, PC, and Vita all currently have much stronger libraries in that regard. Most of these niche Japanese games on PS4 are getting ported to PC anyways.

Don't know how you can say this. PS4 has a decent amount so far. Those other platforms have been out longer. And sorry but PC doesn't affect PS4's market.

Are you missing all these announcements?

Yes people who care a lot about these niche Japanese games are going to choose a PS4 over an Xbone. Obviously. I just don't see any reason to consider that a particularly large audience in the US.

For any one game yes. I just think having so many exclusive has to be beneficial to PS4 and detrimental for XB1. Even if just a little.

More options and all.

 

[Steroyd]

There's always going to be a pretty big split between PS and Xbox when it comes to sales of Japanese games. Especially this gen where PS4 is a lot more popular. That's just market reality.

Market reality has PS4 selling non shooting games at a general 2:1 ratio on launch week as per PAL (UK) chart thread, Japaneese games we're seeing 4:1 ratios on day one... In their only other competitive market the UK.

But when it comes to your COD's and Evolve's and Battlefront's the sales are relatively close despite this market reality in hardware sales, this points to a non receptive userbase to those types of games ontop of the disadvantage in hardware sales, which is probably why Japaneese devs have no problem crossing XboxOne off the list of platforms to develop for.

 

[slavesnyder]

S-E could more than make up that 20% loss in the strongest Xbox territories by dealing exclusive advertising support from SCE worldwide, in addition to cutting the multi-API development complexities on a very complex game.

If Destiny 2 and one or two other SCE-supported games get delayed from 2H 2016, they'd probably be willing to give it a strong push during that period.

So basically Sony is in a position that they can moneyhat nearly every Japanese game for an apple and an egg if they want to.
Problem is: They don't need to because they don't have any advantage except PR/image reasons.
They won't sell one copy more and competition would sell nothing instead of next to nothing.

 

[NDP_Mulcair]

The only figures I can find are for Dragin Quest VIII
In US & EU

DQVIII: 1.3 1.2 million

Source? I can't find anything on DQVIII.

Source

510k US

690k EU

I made a math error it's apparently 1.2 million not 1.3. Correcting in my original post.

Err that site is sourcing Chartzzzzz.

There are other sources citing numbers very close to those figures for DQVIII and DQIX from earlier dates. I've inquired about numbers from another source as well. Hopefully will hear back some time later today.



Fair enough but I think it's completely fair to say they are comparable in the west sales wise given what we know so far. Anyways, here's hoping we get some concrete info then.

Those sales figures are inaccurate to various degrees.

Also, two historical anecdotes:


1) Square Enix was targeting 500K units for the USA market back in Dragon Quest VIII's 2005 release. Sales eventually surpassed their expectations although not significantly.


2) According to NPD data, adjusted unit sales in the USA (adjusted means adjusted by The NPD Group post-release) of Dragon Warrior VII (its predecessor) amounted to only about 215K. Dragon Quest VIII was a massive success by comparison.

 

[Rymuth]

Those sales figures are inaccurate to various degrees.

Also, two historical anecdotes:


1) Square Enix was targeting 500K units for the USA market back in its 2005 release. Sales eventually surpassed their expectations.


2) According to NPD data, adjusted unit sales in the USA (adjusted = adjusted by The NPD Group post-release) of Dragon Quest VII (its predecessor) amounted to only about 215K. Dragon Quest VIII was a massive success by comparison.

Haha, I was just about to ask if you were talking about 7 or 8. Nice job with that quick edit, Mr George.

 

[Durante]

That same SteamDB update had HL3. I will not believe it until SE actually announces it.

You feel it's unlikely that an FF game already listed in the database is coming to Steam?

I feel like there has been a FF release on Steam every other month in the past 2 years.

 

[slavesnyder]

You feel it's unlikely that an FF game already listed in the database is coming to Steam?

I feel like there has been a FF release on Steam every other month in the past 2 years.

Agree. I can imagine things far more shocking than FF coming to Steam.

 

[Welfare]

You feel it's unlikely that an FF game already listed in the database is coming to Steam?

I feel like there has been a FF release on Steam every other month in the past 2 years.

It might happen, but I'd rather wait for an official announcement.

 

[Jarod McChicken]

Those sales figures are inaccurate to various degrees.

Also, two historical anecdotes:


1) Square Enix was targeting 500K units for the USA market back in Dragon Quest VIII's 2005 release. Sales eventually surpassed their expectations although not significantly.


2) According to NPD data, adjusted unit sales in the USA (adjusted means adjusted by The NPD Group post-release) of Dragon Warrior VII (its predecessor) amounted to only about 215K. Dragon Quest VIII was a massive success by comparison.

That's some interesting and precious contributions, thank you sir !

 

[Pranay]

If you have bought a PS4 for playing japanese games where you will generally buy it Day 1 then you can pretty much expect most japanese games on it and you wont be disappointed.

Give it this year and next year, PS4 japanese library will be as good as 3ds and Vita and even the PS3

 

[RexNovis]

Those sales figures are inaccurate to various degrees.

Also, two historical anecdotes:


1) Square Enix was targeting 500K units for the USA market back in Dragon Quest VIII's 2005 release. Sales eventually surpassed their expectations although not significantly.


2) According to NPD data, adjusted unit sales in the USA (adjusted means adjusted by The NPD Group post-release) of Dragon Warrior VII (its predecessor) amounted to only about 215K. Dragon Quest VIII was a massive success by comparison.

Thanks! Ok so we know that DQVIII sold slightly more than 500k in the US which was significantly more than its predecessor

What about DQIX? Did that continue the increased sales trend seen from DQVIII or did it drop back a level similar to DQVII?

More importantly how do these two title's sales compare to those seen for Dragonball Xenoverse?

 

[NDP_Mulcair]

The only figures I can find are for Dragin Quest VIII and Dragon Quest IX.

In US & EU

DQVIII: 1.3 1.2 million
DQIX: 1.2 million

WW (including Asia)
DQVIII: 5.1 million
DQIX: 5.7 million

So considering the only figures we have for Xenoverse are its 2.5 million WW figure (unless someone wants to provide US+EU figures) I would say that Dragon Quest is a substantially bigger franchise.

Star Ocean 4, however, appears to have sold substantially less than I thought it had so yes it's likely bigger than Star Ocean at this point. Which surprises me but hey I'll admit when I'm wrong.

Edit: fixed incorrect # die to math error

Thanks! Ok so we know that DQVIII sold slightly more than 500k in the US which was significantly more than its predecessor

What about DQIX? Did that continue the increased sales trend seen from DQVIII or did it drop back a level similar to DQVII?

More importantly how do these two title's sales compare to those seen for Dragonball Xenoverse?

More than "slightly more than 500K." Your 510K figure is inaccurate because it's too low, for example. Just not "significantly," as in, not 700K+.



I no longer have access to data for today.

But please keep in mind this topic by NeoGAF forum member Celine who has shipment data courtesy of Nintendo:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963700

Dragon Quest IX shipments to USA and Europe were 1.02 million as of December 31st, 2010, 1.05 million as of March 31st, 2011, and a mere 1.12 million as of December 31st, 2013.

And remember that not every copy that gets shipped ends up selling through. So in that case, your "Dragon Quest IX" 1.2 million sell-through number is inaccurate because it's higher than it should be.

 

[RexNovis]

I no longer have access to data for today.

But please keep in mind this topic by NeoGAF forum member Celine who has shipment data courtesy of Nintendo:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963700

Dragon Quest IX shipments to USA and Europe were 1.02 million as of December 2010, and a mere 1.12 million as of December 2013.

And remember that not every copy that gets shipped ends up selling through.

Great! Thanks for the link. So unless I'm misreading the info we are looking at

A bit >500k for DQVIII in US
~1 million for DQIX in EU & US

Then we know that Dragonball Xenoverse is more than 2.5 million units sold WW. The question then becomes what sort of split does the title have for Asia vs US/EU. Historically do Dragonball games (tenkaichi, budokai etc etc) sell more in Asian or western markets? If we can get some more info on the splits to expect for these games we should be able to estimate how many sales to expect for the title in the EU and US markets.

 

[Welfare]

Great! Thanks for the link. So unless I'm misreading the info we are looking at

A bit >500k for DQVIII in US
~1 million for DQIX in EU & US

Then we know that Dragonball Xenoverse is more than 2.5 million units sold WW. The question then becomes what sort of split does the title have for Asia vs US/EU. Historically do Dragonball games (tenkaichi, budokai etc etc) sell more in Asian or western markets? If we can get some more info on the splits to expect for these games we should be able to estimate how many sales to expect for the title in the EU and US markets.

The PS2 Budokai games all did >1m in the US, but those were the peak of "modern" DB games i believe.

Tenkaichi 1 sold 1m between US+Europe by the end of March 2006. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-06-dragon-ball-z-tenkaichi-2-preshow-hands-on/1100-6148657/. It did ~533k in Japan by the end of 2005. Dragon Ball Z Sparking is the Japanese title. http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Famitsu_2005_video_game_sales

 

[Spiegel]

Great! Thanks for the link. So unless I'm misreading the info we are looking at

A bit >500k for DQVIII in US
~1 million for DQIX in EU & US

Then we know that Dragonball Xenoverse is more than 2.5 million units sold WW. The question then becomes what sort of split does the title have for Asia vs US/EU. Historically do Dragonball games (tenkaichi, budokai etc etc) sell more in Asian or western markets? If we can get some more info on the splits to expect for these games we should be able to estimate how many sales to expect for the title in the EU and US markets.

Xenoverse is at >400k on PC alone.

I'm pretty sure it sold better than any DQ game outside of Asian markets.

 

[RexNovis]

The PS2 Budokai games all did >1m in the US, but those were the peak of "modern" DB games i believe.

They sold significantly more WW right? Hence a sales ratio might be a bit more informative and help us estimate how much of the >2.5 million were sold in the US.

 

[Conduit]

FFVIIR isn't lifetime exclusive as far as I am aware, is it?

The game is (timed) exclusive to PS4 cause Sony paid for it. Why do you think Tomb Raider was timed exclusive to Xbone? Hint: It wasn't because they just felt like it.

It's timed and Sony could've very likely paid for that

Did Sony ever mentioned "timed exclusive" on conference?
Didn't know that "first on PS4" means timed exclusive Besides PC version, other platforms aren't announced.

 

[benny_a]

Didn't know that "first on PS4" means timed exclusive Besides PC version, other platforms aren't announced.

It's not like it's a fact. Jigorath is just speculating, the same way everyone else is. It's just done with the conviction of a preacher.

 

[slavesnyder]

Of course we will never know, but it would be interesting to compare the (timed) exclusivity deal for ROtTR with the (timed) FF7R one.
Quite similar dealterms, comparable size of game, completely inverse situation.

Normally the Lara deal should be far more expensive.
How many $/copy will MS have invested in the end if we factor in money exchanged plus marketing investment?

 

[NDP_Mulcair]

Xenoverse is at >400k on PC alone.

I'm pretty sure it sold better than any DQ game outside of Asian markets.

Yes, PC is really a viable market that Japan is really starting to tap into.

The lack of that market after Budokai I believe stunted DBZ's franchise growth potential.

 

[NDP_Mulcair]

No I'm not. I just understand (what some of you don't seem to) that the importance of Japanese games in a Western marketplace has kind of faded in recent years.

Western development teams have ballooned in popularity because the game development companies behind them (Activision, EA, Ubisoft, Take Two) have been able to float massive budgets.

Major Japanese publishers (Square Enix, Sega, Koei Tecmo) tend to be much smaller and as such can't invest as much resources into their games.

That's why Japanese games tend to have become more niche. It's hard to stand out when your team can't afford nearly the same level of marketing (I'm looking at you, Sega of America).