Support NeoGAF

[Retrocide]

I was Just reading Gamasutra's npd report and this jumped out at me

The Xbox 360 points card was the top-selling product in the category, with point cards as a whole up 55 percent compared to last February to represent 22 percent of the accessory market as a whole.

HOLY...wow...Unless my math is wrong Xbox points cards made $56.98 million last month, insane. Xbox Live is a huge succcess for Microsoft.

 

[stupei]

the word you are looking for is 'popular'.

COD is not casual. i have never met a person that plays COD casually. there is nothing casual about the COD experience. infact it's so all consuming that people who play it, play it for hours and hours and hours and don't play anything else, and STRIVE to increase their levels and get better at the game.

nothing about that is casual.

i don't play the things, but casual couldn't be further from the truth in any sense of the word.

So Farmville is not casual?

 

[jmdajr]

I met some dude this weekend that doesn't give a fuck about videogames....

except call of duty

and he plays that shit for hour non stop

 

[Pooya]

?

Can't remember what month, but it came up once before. I don't recall it being proven wrong.

What other reason would they have for resorting the order for some games?

Nah, I don't think so.

 

[Zee-Row]

Sony doesn't do a good job of advertising their games. Its just not "out there" the way MS does it.

 

[Watchtower]

I was Just reading Gamasutra's npd report and this jumped out at me


HOLY...wow...Unless my math is wrong Xbox points cards made $56.98 million last month, insane. Xbox Live is a huge succcess for Microsoft.

It seems everything's a huge success for Microsoft. Except Japan.

 

[jmdajr]

So Farmville is not casual?

nah man...people are obsessed with that game.

 

[jackdoe]

I was Just reading Gamasutra's npd report and this jumped out at me


HOLY...wow...Unless my math is wrong Xbox points cards made $56.98 million last month, insane. Xbox Live is a huge succcess for Microsoft.

Well, there were a ton of nice things to download and you NEVER want to give MS your credit card information so those things definitely contribute to an increase in point card purchases.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Let's not spread BS.

not bs, check previous npds, it always lines up

 

[plagiarize]

So Farmville is not casual?

i don't think we should hate on games because they are A: popular or B: downloadable/browser based.

to answer your question though, i don't think Farmville is casual no. i don't think we should call someone who spends hours every day playing videogames a casual gamer.

having wide appeal is completely seperate to being casual. is Pac Man casual? again i don't think so.

 

[apana]

PS3 is too much of an elitist console, its not connecting with middle America.

 

[Watchtower]

Sony doesn't do a good job of advertising their games. Its just not "out there" the way MS does it.

Because Sony stopped being cool and started trying to be cool. Less talk more delivery Sony.

KB talks too much. He may be funny to but they should just let the games speak for themselves.

Everytime a company's tried to have a spokesperson that basically comes out and says their products are cool.......always backfires. If they want to be cocky and edgy, Sony needs to go back and look at Sega's advertising. That's how you do that technique.

 

[plagiarize]

Really? So the PC version of Black Ops sold fewer copies than the NDS version? Same with NBA 2K11 selling fewer copies than the PS2 version? I find that hard to believe.

Black Ops is certainly pretty popular on DS, and we know that PC gets most of its sales through digital distribution these days, so i see no issue there.

look at Zumba...

it's GOT to be right.

 

[Why For?]

It seems everything's a huge success for Microsoft. Except Japan.

I still think that next-gen, MS should borderline just forget about Japan.

Think of all the extra consoles they could have sold at UK/US launch if they didn't waste them all in Japan.

Couldn't they just re-brand the Xbox in Japan as a Toshiba/Panasonic 'Whatever' and throw them a few thousand units, and ration more if need be.

They could have a HUGE American launch next gen if they forget about Japan.

 

[Watchtower]

i don't think we should hate on games because they are A: popular or B: downloadable/browser based.

to answer your question though, i don't think Farmville is casual no. i don't think we should call someone who spends hours every day playing videogames a casual gamer.

having wide appeal is completely seperate to being casual. is Pac Man casual? again i don't think so.

You missed one.

C: Because they are motion control based.

 

[Uno Venova]

nvm

 

[plagiarize]

You missed one.

C: Because they are motion control based.

good catch.

Because Sony stopped being cool and started trying to be cool. Less talk more delivery Sony.

KB talks too much. He may be funny to but they should just let the games speak for themselves.

Everytime a company's tried to have a spokesperson that basically comes out and says their products are cool.......always backfires. If they want to be cocky and edgy, Sony needs to go back and look at Sega's advertising. That's how you do that technique.

they have it in them. the killzone 2 advert was brilliant, and helped grow the brand and negate the damage the original killzone did to it.

 

[Nirolak]

nvm

I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[stupei]

nah man...people are obsessed with that game.

As horrible and imprecise as the term is, in so much as a game can be casual -- rather than an individual -- I would think it's less about level of obsession and more about amount of focus required. A person can be very hardcore about a game whose mechanics are very casual. If you barely have to use your brain to engage with it, the game's mechanics and gameplay are pretty casual. Whether or not COD qualifies is debatable, I guess, though I don't think it's necessarily a worthwhile discussion.

i don't think we should hate on games because they are A: popular or B: downloadable/browser based.

to answer your question though, i don't think Farmville is casual no. i don't think we should call someone who spends hours every day playing videogames a casual gamer.

having wide appeal is completely seperate to being casual. is Pac Man casual? again i don't think so.

I don't either and didn't mean to imply that with my question.

But I think you are conflating "casual gamer" with "casual game." A person can be dedicated to just about anything. That doesn't make the activity itself inherently "hardcore."

 

[jackdoe]

Black Ops is certainly pretty popular on DS, and we know that PC gets most of its sales through digital distribution these days, so i see no issue there.

look at Zumba...

it's GOT to be right.

I mean, Zumba makes sense. But NBA 2K11? Was the PC version so royally borked that the PS2 version outsells it?

 

[kswiston]

Ok now I'm getting confused. On one hand GAF says casual games like Dance Central or Just Dance 2 that are crap and shouldn't sell because they are casual. OTH one of the uhm corest of "core" becomes the best selling title and now that's shit.

From what I have gathered from NeoGAF, there is an event horizon in sales numbers, where upon crossing, a franchise is irreversibly sucked into the casual game black hole. After many months of research, I have concluded the following:

To figure out if a game has crossed the casual threshold, you need to solve for Y in the equation below:

Y = GAF Hype Rating (GH) - Casual Gamer Hype Rating (CH) - Sales in Millions (S) - Sequel Number (N) + Publisher Variable (P)

If Y > 0, Game = Core Game
If Y < 0, Game = Casual Crap


Notes:
- GH and CH values are on a scale from 0-5 (So Uncharted 2 would have a GH of 5, and Clubhouse Games would have a GH of 0).
- Each Publisher has it's own PV

Example PVs

Valve, Atlus = 10
Sony = 5
Microsoft = 0
ActiBlizz, EA, Ubisoft = -5
Nintendo = -10

 

[Barrel Cannon]

The lowest rated CoD game is still in the top 10 and still #1 in sales. They must be doing something right to be continuing that hot streak.

 

[Verendus]

360 is doing really well. Kinect is doing great work for Microsoft.

Killzone 3 number is disappointing however. It goes without saying if a series doesn't perform to expectations, it may not continue. I don't know what Sony's expectation for the series is, but I'm hoping they don't pull the plug before someone really tries to take advantage of its potential.

What honestly gets me about this series is the protagonist and the handling of the world. Before Killzone 2 released, I was reading the lore and history of the world thinking there is some good potential to deliver a great action packed story.

For me, Killzone 2 failed on both fronts. I didn't even bother finishing the campaign because it was so boring. The story was non-existent too. The protagonists were horrible. There was no reason for me to grow any attachment to the series. Multiplayer was the only thing somewhat enjoyable.

The focus in the series is on the Helghast. That's what stands out; the soldiers with the masks and red eyes. But they're the villains and you're taken through the story with a bunch of lacklustre protagonists who aren't even likeable.

Guerrilla Games needs to really think about what they're doing. They've created a nice world that they cannot do justice to. They're failing to do it justice.

Forget Sev and the rest of the pathetic protagonists. Bring the focus to a Helghast soldier. Explore the story through his eyes. I was watching a trailer for Killzone 3, and there's some ninja Helghast soldier in there, jumping and leaping with a knife or blade of some sort. FPS with that ninja Helghast would be more interesting than a FPS with Sev. It changes some gameplay dynamics too and might give you something different to stand out.

Maybe my disappointment with this series is immense because when I see the world and its history, my imagination runs wild at the possibilities. Then I play the game and see how GG focuses on the wrong aspects when it comes to story, and how they fail to deliver a worthwhile campaign experience. It's like they're failing to do anything.

I'm going to pick up Killzone 3 soon, and I'm hoping it addresses some of the issues I had with the second entry of the series. But I honestly get the feeling it won't.

 

[Ickman3400]

Why do all NPD threads turn into a Casual V Core debate.

It's pretty obvious, because casual stuff is having such an impact on our industry and a lot of people (me included) do not like the influence it holds. It doesn't matter if we're talking COD, Wii stuff, facebook/smartphone crap, or Kinect being the success that it is and MS themselves coming out and more or less saying that they're going to abandon their base in favor of all kinect all the time.

When one side is doing drastically better than the other it's not hard to see that people will go where the money is even if it means selling your soul and making lesser quality products. That's why every thread turns into a casual/core debate.

 

[Takamura-San]

The domination of BLOPS is pretty interesting to say the least.

Wonder how the people at respawn are feeling about this.

They must know that whatever they put out there has to compete with the CoD name they created. And right now CoD is unstoppable.

 

[Hellsing321]

Great numbers for MvC. Now how about you bring the god damn online up to the standard of other fighting games from this generation.

 

[Watchtower]

I still think that next-gen, MS should borderline just forget about Japan.

Think of all the extra consoles they could have sold at UK/US launch if they didn't waste them all in Japan.

Couldn't they just re-brand the Xbox in Japan as a Toshiba/Panasonic 'Whatever' and throw them a few thousand units, and ration more if need be.

They could have a HUGE American launch next gen if they forget about Japan.

You may think that but I think a Japanese presence is important even if it's not a very profitable venture. Somehow though they have figured out a model to make the 360 continue to receive releases for the most part toe-to-toe with the PS3 even though it's being outsold by a factor of 4-1 LTD.

To have a console whose total user base just broke 1.5 million after 5 freaking years is certainly a failure. But to have that same console continue to receive releases on a regular basis from third parties....well that's quite an achievement. I'm pretty sure that's a first for a video game console. Right? The 360 somehow became niche over there without actually having a whole bunch of niche titles. I honestly don't get it.

Anyway, this is an NPD thread so that discussion probably shouldn't be had here but I don't agree. Third time could be charm, and if they pull a repeat and triple up again, they could be looking at a 4.5 million user base over there next time around. Not too shabby considering the circumstances.

 

[jackdoe]

Killzone 3 number is disappointing however. What honestly gets me about this series is the protagonist and the handling of the world. Before Killzone 2 released, I was reading the lore and history of the world thinking there is some good potential to deliver a great action packed story.

You have to remember, these are just four days of sales. Killzone 3 launched on Feb. 22 and these numbers account up to Feb 26th. And I don't think sales in the US are as front loaded as games in Japan.

 

[plagiarize]

As horrible and imprecise as the term is, in so much as a game can be casual -- rather than an individual -- I would think it's less about level of obsession and more about amount of focus required. A person can be very hardcore about a game whose mechanics are very casual. If you barely have to use your brain to engage with it, the game's mechanics and gameplay are pretty casual. Whether or not COD qualifies is debatable, I guess, though I don't think it's necessarily a worthwhile discussion.



I don't either and didn't mean to imply that with my question.

But I think you are conflating "casual gamer" with "casual game." A person can be dedicated to just about anything. That doesn't make the activity itself inherently "hardcore."

you're talking about fringe cases there though. there's a clear difference between Animal Crossing and Farmville in terms of what they require of the player. i guess that's where i'm coming at it from.

COD and Farmville aren't just hugely addictive by accident, they encourage serious dedication to that game in their very game design. even if they don't, i'm just not comfortable with this term because it seems to generate a secondary underclass.

if Angry Birds is casual, so are Pac-Man and Tetris and Lumines. i just don't see how it's a useful term, and people seem to use it to flag a game in some way that almost always seems to infer that it 'doesn't count'.

 

[plagiarize]

I mean, Zumba makes sense. But NBA 2K11? Was the PC version so royally borked that the PS2 version outsells it?

probably. even so, there's a reason that you can buy Madden on PS2 but not PC.

 

[jtb]

You have to remember, these are just four days of sales. Killzone 3 launched on Feb. 22 and these numbers account up to Feb 26th. And I don't think sales in the US are as front loaded as games in Japan.

Games in the US are also extremely frontloaded. Especially "blockbuster" style games like KZ3 and BS - of course, with only 4 days of sales, I'd say expect March sales to be roughly equal to February sales (that's what happened with KZ2 iirc). Good, but hardly stellar.

 

[chris0701]

You have to remember, these are just four days of sales. Killzone 3 launched on Feb. 22 and these numbers account up to Feb 26th. And I don't think sales in the US are as front loaded as games in Japan.

(Insert Sony Games here) has X days of sales in NPD.

Remember the same reaction of GT5 sales on its first NPD report ?

 

[akilshohen]

Anyone who thinks Mortal Kombat will sell poorly just has to look at how Mortal Kombat 2 has been one of the top 10 selling games on the PSN Store since it released years ago. The franchise is still huge with such positive buzz this new one will do gangbusters. Better than Marvel Vs. Capcom for sure.

Supposedly MvC2 is the top selling PSN title

 

[Huff]

Killzone 3 number is disappointing however.

Little bit premature for everyone to be calling it a disappointment. Was it a smash hit? No. But you don't have to sell 10 million units to be a success.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

A view from the outside:

Sony ads are funny. I am entertained by them. They make me chuckle, in a good way. No, they don't have me running out and buying a PS3, but little short of a direct command from God would make me do so. Don't have interest in owning multiple consoles ever again. But still... the ads are funny.

Oh, and Call of Duty: not casual, just popular.

 

[Arnie]

Amazing stuff from Microsoft and 360, that beast just keeps on moving.

And with Gears I don't see that trend deviating.

 

[jackdoe]

Games in the US are also extremely frontloaded. Especially "blockbuster" style games like KZ3 and BS - of course, with only 4 days of sales, I'd say expect March sales to be roughly equal to February sales (that's what happened with KZ2 iirc). Good, but hardly stellar.

Still, at least it's not a disappointment. Bulletstorm should have legs as well since word of mouth is strong and EA will probably give it a booster shot price discount one of these days.

 

[user_nat]

I mean, Zumba makes sense. But NBA 2K11? Was the PC version so royally borked that the PS2 version outsells it?

The order hasn't been the same each month though.

October through to February:
NBA 2K11 (360, PS3, PS2, PSP, WII, PC)
NBA 2K11 (360, PS3, Wii, PS2, PSP,PC)
NBA 2K11 (360, PS3, Wii, PSP, PS2, PC)
NBA 2K11 (360, PS3, PSP, WII, PS2, PC)
NBA 2K11 (360, PS3, PSP, WII, PS2, PC)

Wii, PS2 and PSP versions have been moving around.
Is it really that surprising that the PC version of NBA 2k11 would the lowest seller? Not really the biggest marker for sports games.

The only instantance I can find of a PS3 version being before the 360 version is Hot Pursuit.
November:
Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit (PS3, 360, Wii, PC)
December:
Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit (360, PS3, Wii, PC)

I don't see why the would randomly decided to rearrange these things.

 

[plagiarize]

KZ3's release date is yet more proof that Sony do not care about where their games rank in the NPD charts.

if they did, they wouldn't keep launching flag ship titles late in the month.

i think the reaction to the Killzone 3 sales are a little harsh. the reactions to the first month of GT5 sales made a lot more sense. KZ3 is the second Killzone game on the PS3, wasn't hyped to save anything, and sold as well as the first.

yeah, you can argue that that's a little dissapointing given that the PS3 userbase has increased, but that's about all i think you can argue.

the hype AND advertising for KZ2 were much better than for 3, and lets not forget that 2 got better reviews. slightly lower sales seems about what you'd expect.

 

[TacticalFox88]

One thing we can almost guarantee about the next gen, is that COD will almost certainly die with this generation.

 

[e-gamer]

Little bit premature for everyone to be calling it a disappointment. Was it a smash hit? No. But you don't have to sell 10 million units to be a success.

to be a comercial success, you have

And that is what supports the games industry.

Well, IMO, a game has to sell 2 million copies at least, to be a comercial success...

 

[Pooya]

The order hasn't been the same each month though.

October through to February:
NBA 2K11 (360, PS3, PS2, PSP, WII, PC)
NBA 2K11 (360, PS3, Wii, PS2, PSP,PC)
NBA 2K11 (360, PS3, Wii, PSP, PS2, PC)
NBA 2K11 (360, PS3, PSP, WII, PS2, PC)
NBA 2K11 (360, PS3, PSP, WII, PS2, PC)

Wii, PS2 and PSP versions have been moving around.
Is it really that surprising that the PC version of NBA 2k11 would the lowest seller? Not really the biggest marker for sports games.

The only instantance I can find of a PS3 version being before the 360 version is Hot Pursuit.
November:
Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit (PS3, 360, Wii, PC)
December:
Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit (360, PS3, Wii, PC)

I don't see why the would randomly decided to rearrange these things.

unless people like jvm or others confirming it, you shouldn't read too much into that, could be for any reason. The whole point of releasing combined chart was not to give such data.

 

[FirstInHell]

It seems everything's a huge success for Microsoft. Except Japan.

It doesn't seem to matter at this point. Japan is becoming more and more irrelevant by the day. Ten years ago when Japan was the trend-setter and cornerstone of gaming culture, a company not doing well in Japan would be alarming. Things have changed.

 

[Father_Brain]

Question: Is the 3DS launch covered in the March reporting period, or will we have to wait until May for those numbers?

 

[plagiarize]

unless people like jvm or others confirming it, you shouldn't read too much into that, could be for any reason. The whole point of releasing combined chart was not to give such data.

i don't remember that being the primary, or solitary reason for the combined charts even. i'm sure it's right.

 

[user_nat]

unless people like jvm or others confirming it, you shouldn't read too much into that, could be for any reason. The whole point of releasing combined chart was not to give such data.

I'm certainly willing to believe that it is complete coincidence. It's fun to speculate anyhow.
Hopefully one month we get some result which helps prove it one way or the other.

I found one other example of PS3 being listed before 360. Back in September:
Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions (PS3, 360, NDS, Wii)

 

[bathala]

ah snap at MS.

only 200k for Bulletstorm multi SKU

 

[FirstInHell]

Little bit premature for everyone to be calling it a disappointment. Was it a smash hit? No. But you don't have to sell 10 million units to be a success.

When you spend $60 million to produce a title you do.

KZ3's release date is yet more proof that Sony do not care about where their games rank in the NPD charts.

if they did, they wouldn't keep launching flag ship titles late in the month.

i think the reaction to the Killzone 3 sales are a little harsh. the reactions to the first month of GT5 sales made a lot more sense. KZ3 is the second Killzone game on the PS3, wasn't hyped to save anything, and sold as well as the first.

yeah, you can argue that that's a little dissapointing given that the PS3 userbase has increased, but that's about all i think you can argue.

the hype AND advertising for KZ2 were much better than for 3, and lets not forget that 2 got better reviews. slightly lower sales seems about what you'd expect.

As people mentioned before AAA games in the US are frontloaded. All of the sales happen in the first few days.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Question: Is the 3DS launch covered in the March reporting period, or will we have to wait until May for those numbers?

March NPD will cover 5 weeks, so it stretches into early April. If 3DS is out in March, those numbers will be in next month's data.

 

[a Master Ninja]

All the people doubting that Mortal Kombat 9 will sell like gangbusters are going to be in for a surprise.

COD Blops being the best selling game in the US ever is a bit depressing, though. It's not even the best Call of Duty. Hell, it's not even the third best Call of Duty.