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[Rolf NB]

I said it was flawed logic in this thread.

You imagined most of it.

 

[soldat7]

I don't know if hitting the reset button for a new generation in a few years is going to help MS and Sony catch Nintendo.

Nintendo is sitting very pretty right now, and its ownership of the waggle idea is a key reason why. Combine Nintendo's older/hardcore fanbase (those crazy Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Pokemon fans who floated Nintendo when its marketshare was decidedly leaner) with the new generation of fans that it's creating right now, and you have numbers that give it a built-in advantage going into the next console cycle.

You could have almost said the same thing about Sony and the PS2 last generation. Haven't we learned anything from history? None of the console-makers are a shoe-in for #1 in the generation following this one. Another disruption could easily occur

Spoiler

Apple?

, for example. We just don't know.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Nintendo spin:

Nintendo kicked off 2009 the same way it finished 2008: with a bang. While the video game industry grew by $150 million (12 percent) year-on-year, Nintendo’s total sales grew by $300 million in January, offsetting declines on other platforms.

Sales of the Wii™ console in January were up 148 percent over January 2007, with nearly 680,000 units sold, according to the independent NPD Group, which tracks video game sales in the United States. Since Wii launched in November 2006, it has sold more than 18 million units in the United States.

Sales of the Nintendo DS™ system in January were also up 99 percent over January 2007, and it once again was the top-selling portable system with more than 510,000 units sold. Since Nintendo DS launched in November 2004, it has sold more than 28 million units in the United States.

“Nintendo’s significant contribution to January’s industry growth validates our internal research showing that Nintendo continues to expand the gaming audience,” said Cammie Dunaway, Nintendo of America’s executive vice president of Sales & Marketing. “We are excited to see that consumers, new and existing, are choosing to entertain themselves in new ways with the diversity of our software lineup.”

Similar momentum was witnessed in software sales, with 20 of the top 30 games of January made for Nintendo systems. Of those, five games made for Nintendo systems finished in the top 10 best-sellers of January. These games include Wii Fit™ at No. 1 with more than 777,000 sold, Wii Play™ at No. 2 with nearly 415,000 sold, Mario Kart™ Wii at No. 3 with more than 292,000 sold, New Super Mario Bros. for Nintendo DS at No. 7 with nearly 135,000 sold, and Mario Kart™ DS at No. 8 with more than 132,000 sold.

http://kotaku.com/5152820/nintendo-responds-to-january-npd-sales-seems-pleased#c10714495

 

[MacBosse]

No 11 to 20 list this month?

Double that.

 

[freddy]

What are the WW LTD numbers for the 3 systems?

That's as accurate as your likely to find anywhere. V

From Donny2112

 

[plagiarize]

No need for an average price, the reality is that I can buy a 360 for 199$ and the PS3 cost the double

the reality is that only Sony are to blame for the fact that the PS3 is twice the price of the 360. what's the point in trying to point out that the PS3 is selling well 'for the price'? bragging rights? warm fuzzy feelings?

the price is the main reason it isn't selling well compared to the 360 or compared to it's sales a year ago. no one is arguing that i don't think. but Sony are solely responsible for that price. so they are solely responsible for their lackluster sales.

it's like say, if an openly racist politician loses an election getting 1/3rd of the vote you could probably say 'wow! that's really good for a racist!' but i don't see what the fuck it would achieve. the guy still lost because he was a racist.

would you really say 'well the other guy isn't a racist so he should have done better!'?

 

[Omar Ismail]

It's a nice idea, but it would never work.

With Wii, Nintendo already owns the idea of "waggle" gaming in the minds of consumers. The Wii is the Wii and there is nothing else like it. You can slap motion controls and party games into the 360 box but it will never be a Wii and will never rival the Wii in the minds of consumers.

The die have been cast and there's no mixing this up until somebody hits the industry "reset" button in a few years.

Actually, that's my whole point is that it's NOT impossible. And it's precisely because of the way the Wii has spread. The iPod is successful because it really is the best MP3 player from a hardware + services perspective. So when you have the best offering + fantastic marketing then you get total domination like with the Wii and iPod.

At this point the iPod is untouchable because there's an entire ecosystem around it. TVs are made with iPod docks, cars, hotel radios, etc. So it's an iPod world.

At this point Nintendo has not yet reached that level of integration with the broader Consumer Electronics world, that's why they're still vulnerable. I mean this is the exact same thinking that people took with the PS3. Just because PS2 is so popular means that Playstation will continue forever. No. If there's a compelling competitive offering that meets consumer needs and is marketed well then it has a shot in the console world.

The reason why the Wii is demolishing everything is because there's nothing else like it. But if you can offer something LIKE it at the same quality level or better, Microsoft won't take them out of the game but they will start siphoning an extra hundred thousand a month or so. Will it be enough to turn the tides against the Wii? Probably not, but a 500K/400K split is much better than 600/300.

MS can do the marketing.
They have 90% of the technology.
They're getting better with the software.

At this point it's a strategic decision in regards to how they position things. But it's possible, and in my mind inevitable, and they can't wait too long. As we've seen with the iPod at a certain point it just becomes the standard.

 

[lowrider007]

I'm saying that as a percentage of the total number of people buying machines right now, those out hunting for Jasper machines is minimal. So in essence, yes I'm saying that you're wrong.

Yes I know that not many people are searching for Jasper units atm, that is not the point, the point is those few people that were looking found that the Arcade SKU's were the first SKU's to hit shelves that were Jasper revisions, in fact on av-forums there was even a supplier on there telling people that the only available jasper SKU they had at the time was the Arcade SKU's as they sell alot more of them so the stock is replenished with newer revisions faster than other SKU's.

All I'm saying is that I believe that the Arcade SKU is selling more than the Pro/Elite SKU atm, the fact that it was harder to find a jasper Elite/Pro kind of proves that, in fact even now here in the UK finding a Jasper Elite/Pro is still hard.

 

[plagiarize]

the main problem with such a new sku is that the wii has the library, and the focus of developement on the system will remain on the kinds of game appealing to the mass market.

a peripheral could never achieve the success the wii has. you might manage Guitar Hero levels of success, but that's the absolute ceiling unless microsoft were to phase out the existing controller. that's the ONLY way they could even start to approach getting the appropriate amount of the appropriate software to take a bite out of wii games.

 

[LM4sure]

Good to see L4D do well. I'm still waiting on a price drop though.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Sony didn't respond to NPD numbers this time around?


Boooo. I wanted to be spun!

 

[RSTEIN]

You're mad

While I am partly joking, if one is going to align themselves with a certain camp (i.e. Sony/MS/Nintendo), you can't slice and dice the arguments or draw lines in the sand where its most convenient for you. Sony has made the argument over and over again that the 360 is actually more expensive than the PS3. So, when I see members of the SDF claiming that the PS3 isn't doing that bad considering its price relative to the 360 it strikes me as kind of odd. The mothership is saying the 360 is more expensive. SDF says that the 360 is less expensive. Which is it? You just can't have it both ways. Either you say Sony is lying by saying that the 360 is more expensive or you say the PS3 isn't selling that bad because its more expensive than the 360. You can't have both, you must choose one.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

While I am partly joking, if one is going to align themselves with a certain camp (i.e. Sony/MS/Nintendo), you can't slice and dice the arguments or draw lines in the sand where its most convenient for you. Sony has made the argument over and over again that the 360 is actually more expensive than the PS3. So, when I see members of the SDF claiming that the PS3 isn't doing that bad considering its price relative to the 360 it strikes me as kind of odd. The mothership is saying the 360 is more expensive. SDF says that the 360 is less expensive. Which is it? You just can't have it both ways. Either you say Sony is lying by saying that the 360 is more expensive or you say the PS3 isn't selling that bad because its more expensive than the 360. You can't have both, you must choose one.

For or Against?

 

[mr_bishiuk]

Yes I know that not many people are searching for Jasper units atm, that is not the point, the point is those few people that were looking found that the Arcade SKU's were the first SKU's to hit shelves that were Jasper revisions, in fact on av-forums there was even a supplier on there telling people that the only available jasper SKU they had at the time was the Arcade SKU's as they sell alot more of them so the stock is replenished with newer revisions faster than other SKU's.

All I'm saying is that I believe that the Arcade SKU is selling more than the Pro/Elite SKU atm, the fact that it was harder to find a jasper Elite/Pro kind of proves that, in fact even now here in the UK finding a Jasper Elite/Pro is still hard.

there is no way the £130 is selling more than the £170 pro pack, the difference between the two Sku's in Europe is not as significant as in the US especially from a pricing barrier perspective

 

[Norse]

long time no post....

I never thought the Wii would last and 360 would own PS3 in the States. 1 of 2 isnt too bad. Can you imagine when 360 hits 99 bucks. Great gaming system. Guess Sony really did sacrifice games for blu ray. MS achievement points in all games was brilliant as well. SONY GOT OWNED THIS GENERATION! So far....

 

[markatisu]

MS can do the marketing.
They have 90% of the technology.
They're getting better with the software.

At this point it's a strategic decision in regards to how they position things. But it's possible, and in my mind inevitable, and they can't wait too long. As we've seen with the iPod at a certain point it just becomes the standard.

I think we are just about there, the 360 is cheaper and even games that target the same audience go over like rocks. Adding a new controller and marketing it does not erase Nintendo's mindshare it only appears as if Nintendo was smart to think of it first.

This argument might have flown early last year but by now I think its far to late for MS or Sony to redefine themselves, even next generation it still be following the lead of Nintendo as Nintendo finally moves to HD graphics alongside Motion +.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

oh really?

270 <199+299+399/3=299

It means one thing majority are Pro/Arcade

No because they aint shipping many Elites anymore, the pro has HDMI and a 60gig harddrive so the Elite has lost its sparkle not that it was ever a major Sku in the first place

 

[truly101]

When did the 360 hit the 10 million mark last year? around March/April? I thought if the PS3 could hit 10 million around the same time this year then that would be a decent sing for Sony, they would have done similar 360 numbers during the same timespan. However it underperformed in November, coupled with the higher price and poor economy its just over 7 million. It'll hit 10 million this year, but it won't be till this coming November unless they get a pricedrop soon. February NPDs will be brutal for Sony (and I predict down all around for everyone) I will be surprised if the PS3 sells over 200K, KZ2 or no KZ2.

 

[Omar Ismail]

the main problem with such a new sku is that the wii has the library, and the focus of developement on the system will remain on the kinds of game appealing to the mass market.

a peripheral could never achieve the success the wii has. you might manage Guitar Hero levels of success, but that's the absolute ceiling unless microsoft were to phase out the existing controller. that's the ONLY way they could even start to approach getting the appropriate amount of the appropriate software to take a bite out of wii games.

Look at the chart. It's the same SKUs selling. What is the Wii's major strength, is also it's weakness. One of the MAIN reasons why people love it is because of Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Wii Play, Mario Kart Wii, and SSBWii. 5 games. We'll see if other games such as Wii Sports 2 can become other staples, but for the past year it's been those games.

And you could argue it's mainly Wii Sports and Wii Fit that are the truly defining games.

Actually, Guitar Hero/Rock Band is a very good example. My theory is that if Instrument music games were only available on the 360 then it would be selling on par with the Wii. Period. Because music games are hugely popular and if the 360 locked up that kind of experience then everybody would HAVE to buy a 360 to play it. I mean, what is the monthly figure for all GH SKUs and Rock Band SKUs? I wouldn't be surprised if it approached that of 500K or so.

That's EXACTLY the situation we're in with the Wii.

If you can find the same experience on multiple platforms you WILL get SOME attention and sales and the audience will become more diffused than it is now.

 

[RSTEIN]

For or Against?

Neither! I don't care

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Neither! I don't care

I meant joe211.

And I'm also not taking NPD very serious.

 

[Joe211]

While I am partly joking, if one is going to align themselves with a certain camp (i.e. Sony/MS/Nintendo), you can't slice and dice the arguments or draw lines in the sand where its most convenient for you. Sony has made the argument over and over again that the 360 is actually more expensive than the PS3. So, when I see members of the SDF claiming that the PS3 isn't doing that bad considering its price relative to the 360 it strikes me as kind of odd. The mothership is saying the 360 is more expensive. SDF says that the 360 is less expensive. Which is it? You just can't have it both ways. Either you say Sony is lying by saying that the 360 is more expensive or you say the PS3 isn't selling that bad because its more expensive than the 360. You can't have both, you must choose one.

Yes I can have both.

People are buying arcade model and then they begin to understand their unit is not complete they need and HDD and a live subscription this is the hidden cost Sony is talking about.

 

[Arpharmd B]

Actually, that's my whole point is that it's NOT impossible. And it's precisely because of the way the Wii has spread. The iPod is successful because it really is the best MP3 player from a hardware + services perspective. So when you have the best offering + fantastic marketing then you get total domination like with the Wii and iPod.

At this point the iPod is untouchable because there's an entire ecosystem around it. TVs are made with iPod docks, cars, hotel radios, etc. So it's an iPod world.

At this point Nintendo has not yet reached that level of integration with the broader Consumer Electronics world, that's why they're still vulnerable. I mean this is the exact same thinking that people took with the PS3. Just because PS2 is so popular means that Playstation will continue forever. No. If there's a compelling competitive offering that meets consumer needs and is marketed well then it has a shot in the console world.

The reason why the Wii is demolishing everything is because there's nothing else like it. But if you can offer something LIKE it at the same quality level or better, Microsoft won't take them out of the game but they will start siphoning an extra hundred thousand a month or so. Will it be enough to turn the tides against the Wii? Probably not, but a 500K/400K split is much better than 600/300.

MS can do the marketing.
They have 90% of the technology.
They're getting better with the software.

At this point it's a strategic decision in regards to how they position things. But it's possible, and in my mind inevitable, and they can't wait too long. As we've seen with the iPod at a certain point it just becomes the standard.

Marketing major? You really know your stuff.

Most intelligent post in the thread.

 

[Bill_the_Butcher]

Ahh... Nothing gets a gaf circle jerk going like NPD's

 

[poppabk]

The reason why the Wii is demolishing everything is because there's nothing else like it. But if you can offer something LIKE it at the same quality level or better, Microsoft won't take them out of the game but they will start siphoning an extra hundred thousand a month or so. Will it be enough to turn the tides against the Wii? Probably not, but a 500K/400K split is much better than 600/300.

MS can do the marketing.
They have 90% of the technology.
They're getting better with the software.

You are forgetting that MS has been marketing the 360 for over 3 and a half years and Nintendo have done the same for the Wii. Adding a Wii like experience to the 360 would make it look like the Wii's poorer cousin, an also ran, which is not the kind of image you want to portray. It could just as easily hurt sales rather than help them.

 

[Jaruru]

MS can do the marketing.
They have 90% of the technology.
They're getting better with the software.

marketing? Nintendo is doing a BETTER job.
tech? many companies have tech, looks at Sony? tech doesn't sell, ideas and app do.
software? it's far FAR behind Nintendo's. regardless the Mario effect, Ninty doesn't only rely on Mario. look at WiiFit. 10 Halo games doesn't sell more xbox, 1 WiiFit sells millions of Wii.

 

[gkryhewy]

While I am partly joking, if one is going to align themselves with a certain camp (i.e. Sony/MS/Nintendo), you can't slice and dice the arguments or draw lines in the sand where its most convenient for you. Sony has made the argument over and over again that the 360 is actually more expensive than the PS3. So, when I see members of the SDF claiming that the PS3 isn't doing that bad considering its price relative to the 360 it strikes me as kind of odd. The mothership is saying the 360 is more expensive. SDF says that the 360 is less expensive. Which is it? You just can't have it both ways. Either you say Sony is lying by saying that the 360 is more expensive or you say the PS3 isn't selling that bad because its more expensive than the 360. You can't have both, you must choose one.

Warning: you are spending mental energy replying to a one-line poster who avoids punctuation.

 

[Joe211]

That's as accurate as your likely to find anywhere. V

From Donny2112

The only thing I can say about this graph is that Nintendo will be number 1 at the end of this gen.
For the second place, well obviously Sony is going to take it with Japan/Europe

 

[Masklinn]

You think Microsoft is content then to stay in second place forever?

Yes. Microsoft didn't get on the market for fun and games, they came in the market to prevent sony from claiming the living room (as an entertainment hub), they really don't give a damn about Nintendo (who has absolutely no desire to go into the "entertainment hub" business), now that they're making a profit I wager they're pretty happy. Doesn't mean they won't push for more, but I don't think they'd mind staying second as long as Sony stays third (or they're close enough that sony doesn't achieve any living-room dominance)

We all know they're going to launch a Wii+/WiiToo/WiiHD/WiiLite/WiiSomethingSomething right before this happens, to make everybody buy another one.

They'll start with colored wiis. The console seems to be losing steam (kinda) in JP, we might see some red&black&blue&whatever Wiis there before the end of the year, and bam the Wii's good for another two years easy.

But if you can offer something LIKE it at the same quality level or better

Then it still won't change anything, because even if another console has wii-like waggle it won't have the library, and it won't be driven by the Wii * stuff, and it will come too little too late, and third-parties won't be able to rely on waggle (which won't gain significant market due to being priced higher at no advantage).

You think Microsoft would be able to output the waggle first-party Nintendo does? You're dreaming, MS doesn't have anywhere near Nintendo's coding and publication power.

Microsoft won't take them out of the game but they will start siphoning an extra hundred thousand a month or so.

You're completely and utterly insane.

As we've seen with the iPod at a certain point it just becomes the standard.

"Consoles" don't become "standard" for more than a generation. New generation, whole new entries, potentially new players, and everything is reset. Some stuff carries over (backlog if you have backward compatibility, image, ...) but it's not major.

The situation is completely different than the PMP/iPod market.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Yes I can have both.

People are buying arcade model and then they begin to understand their unit is not complete they need and HDD and a live subscription this is the hidden cost Sony is talking about.

The majority of casual consmers don't need a HDD and don't need a live subscription. Sony (and you) can't seem to undestand the market isn't made of just high end consumers which is exactly why they are where they are.

 

[Arpharmd B]

You are forgetting that MS has been marketing the 360 for over 3 and a half years and Nintendo have done the same for the Wii. Adding a Wii like experience to the 360 would make it look like the Wii's poorer cousin, an also ran, which is not the kind of image you want to portray. It could just as easily hurt sales rather than help them.

Yeah but his Ipod example is pretty spot on.

You would be a fool to not thing MS and Sony are working on their own forms of waggle, whether they are looking into releasing it for their current systems (most likely) or future systems, they are most definately going to do it.

They won't replace Nintendo but they would definately take a bite out of the pie.

I agree with Omar I'd hedge my bets on seeing waggle shit from MS and Sony this year at E3.

 

[Masklinn]

Yeah but his Ipod example is pretty spot on.

It's not. It's almost as bad as car analogies, in fact.

 

[plagiarize]

Look at the chart. It's the same SKUs selling. What is the Wii's major strength, is also it's weakness. One of the MAIN reasons why people love it is because of Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Wii Play, Mario Kart Wii, and SSBWii. 5 games. We'll see if other games such as Wii Sports 2 can become other staples, but for the past year it's been those games.

And you could argue it's mainly Wii Sports and Wii Fit that are the truly defining games.

Actually, Guitar Hero/Rock Band is a very good example. My theory is that if Instrument music games were only available on the 360 then it would be selling on par with the Wii. Period. Because music games are hugely popular and if the 360 locked up that kind of experience then everybody would HAVE to buy a 360 to play it. I mean, what is the monthly figure for all GH SKUs and Rock Band SKUs? I wouldn't be surprised if it approached that of 500K or so.

That's EXACTLY the situation we're in with the Wii.

If you can find the same experience on multiple platforms you WILL get SOME attention and sales and the audience will become more diffused than it is now.

it's the same games in the top ten, but trust me there's a lot more going on than that.

something you can't see in these numbers for example, is the huge sales of used Wii games in Gamestop in January. Gamestops all across the country were practically cleaned out. trust me when i say that the majority of USED games on the Wii aren't Nintendo published.

game library is a huge factor in someones purchasing decision. it doesn't matter if they're selling or any good, a larger wall of games sells systems.

how have the MS made casual games on the 360 that require peripherals done? how many companies other than microsoft have supported those peripherals?

which optional peripheral ever saw a huge library of games that support it? even something as incredibly well selling as the balance board only has a handful of titles that work with it in any major way.

 

[Stoney Mason]

As far as waggle shit for the PS3 and the 360 its too late to make a difference this gen not to mention they simply haven't exhibitied the development skill to support these accessories in the way Nintendo historically has. Even if they introduce it next gen it is unlikely they will be able to maximize it like Nintendo has.

 

[shpankey]

I need GAF to analyze this information for me! I clicked too quickly!

Nintendo

Microsoft

Sony

 

[RSTEIN]

Yes I can have both.

People are buying arcade model and then they begin to understand their unit is not complete they need and HDD and a live subscription this is the hidden cost Sony is talking about.

Wrong. People who buy an arcade unit don't NEED anything else to complete their gaming experience. When you buy an arcade unit there's no hidden anything. The whole experience is very well advertised (hence the name arcade). It's geared to casuals who aren't going to spend 24/7 playing Gears of War or enjoying Netflix or other HD content.

The arcade unit out of the box is a complete gaming system. If the purchaser of the arcade unit decides later on that they WANT online gaming, movie downloads, demos, etc., then they can spend whatever amount they see fit.

As the Wii has demonstrated, a huge chunk of gamers don't even WANT a robust, integrated online platform that PSN and Live represent. Hell, the Wii shows that MOST gamers don't even want HD gaming! So please don't confuse want and need again.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

The only thing I can say about this graph is that Nintendo will be number 1 at the end of this gen.
For the second place, well obviously Sony is going to take it with Japan/Europe

I would not be so sure about that.

 

[plagiarize]

As far as waggle shit for the PS3 and the 360 its too late to make a difference this gen not to mention they simply haven't exhibitied the development skill to support these accessories in the way Nintendo historically has. Even if they introduce it next gen it is unlikely they will be able to maximize it like Nintendo has.

i still believe that waggle wouldn't have taken off if nintendo hadn't made it the only controller packed in with their new system AND made their new system easy and cheap to develop for. i'm including Nintendo's studios in there too. if Nintendo hadn't insisted their internal teams develop for it, it wouldn't have taken off in the way it has.

no peripheral ever has or ever will.

you CAN get a profitable series like Singstar and Guitar Hero out of a peripheral, but get a big library of games out of it? never.

how many PS3 games do anything interesting or useful with the sixaxis? only a tiny handful.

how many people even care that the PS3 controller has motion sensing? do you really think anything but a negligible percentage of people have bought a PS3 for motion controls? (stoney, these aren't directed at you).

 

[Kill Your Masters]

For the second place, well obviously Sony is going to take it with Japan/Europe

How is that obvious. The USA should pretty much balance out any advantage Sony has in JP/EU. As long as both sell almost equal - even if Sony has a small worldwide lead - they will never catch up.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

It's not. It's almost as bad as car analogies, in fact.

 

[plagiarize]

How is that obvious. The USA should pretty much balance out any advantage Sony has in JP/EU. As long as both sell almost equal - even if Sony has a small worldwide lead - they will never catch up.

it's funny that we're still talking about Japan like it's the second biggest market. i'm pretty sure that the 360 is outselling the PS3 in the UK since the price drop, and that's the second biggest market in the world now.

 

[Arpharmd B]

Wrong. People who buy an arcade unit don't NEED anything else to complete their gaming experience. When you buy an arcade unit there's no hidden anything. The whole experience is very well advertised (hence the name arcade). It's geared to casuals who aren't going to spend 24/7 playing Gears of War or enjoying Netflix or other HD content.

The arcade unit out of the box is a complete gaming system. If the purchaser of the arcade unit decides later on that they WANT online gaming, movie downloads, demos, etc., then they can spend whatever amount they see fit.

As the Wii has demonstrated, a huge chunk of gamers don't even WANT a robust, integrated online platform that PSN and Live represent. Hell, the Wii shows that MOST gamers don't even want HD gaming! So please don't confuse want and need again.

Exactly.

God could you imagine if I could go get a harddriveless, Blurayless, WiFiless PS3 for 199?? Holy fuck I'd jump on that in a second. They'd be in 2nd place, and a much stronger 2nd place than MS is in right now. That was Sonys mistake, assuming consumers wanted and was willing to pay extra for those features.

*I understand you need an HD for most games. But I'm saying hypothetically, if I could get a PS3 that played every single game without Harddrive for 199, I'd have that shit in 2 seconds.

 

[Blame!]

wow so really no spin this time from sony or ms?

NPD fail.

 

[poppabk]

Yeah but his Ipod example is pretty spot on.

You would be a fool to not thing MS and Sony are working on their own forms of waggle, whether they are looking into releasing it for their current systems (most likely) or future systems, they are most definately going to do it.

They won't replace Nintendo but they would definately take a bite out of the pie.

I agree with Omar I'd hedge my bets on seeing waggle shit from MS and Sony this year at E3.

I would be surprised if MS and Sony aren't reconsidering their markets going into next gen. Motion control isn't necessarily the future, accessibility is. The Wii succeeded because it is accessible to nearly all people. The motion controls facilitate this, but you could make an accessible console without motion controls and you can make an inaccessible console with motion controls (PS3). The entire Wii from its form factor to its GUI is designed to be non-intimidating. The remote looks like a remote because that is what people are familiar and comfortable with, its not actually the best form factor for a controller. It has less accessible buttons than you could reasonably fit on there, because multiple buttons intimidate new users. It has buttons labeled plus and minus, because everyone recognizes them as similar to the volume control on a remote, even though I can't think of a time that they are ever used as a literal plus or minus. The different software is in channels, because its a metaphor that people intuitively understand.
You can't replicate the Wii with a wiimote like controller.

 

[Jaruru]

God could you imagine if I could go get a harddriveless, Blurayless, WiFiless PS3 for 199?? Holy fuck I'd jump on that in a second. They'd be in 2nd place, and a much stronger 2nd place than MS is in right now. That was Sonys mistake, assuming consumers wanted and was willing to pay extra for those features.

yes, they call the PS3 an entertainment system, not a game system.
which is SO WRONG. the price determines a lot.

 

[farnham]

i still believe that waggle wouldn't have taken off if nintendo hadn't made it the only controller packed in with their new system AND made their new system easy and cheap to develop for. i'm including Nintendo's studios in there too. if Nintendo hadn't insisted their internal teams develop for it, it wouldn't have taken off in the way it has.

no peripheral ever has or ever will.

you CAN get a profitable series like Singstar and Guitar Hero out of a peripheral, but get a big library of games out of it? never.

how many PS3 games do anything interesting or useful with the sixaxis? only a tiny handful.

how many people even care that the PS3 controller has motion sensing? do you really think anything but a negligible percentage of people have bought a PS3 for motion controls? (stoney, these aren't directed at you).

well you think that the wiimote is the peripheral and thats where most of the video gaming journalists or analyists fail

the wii is the wiimote.. the wiimote is the main feature of the wii.. the box itself is nothing but "two gamecubes ducttaped together"

its the first console that treated the controller not as the peripheral you could say..

its funny how people still dont get it.. the wiis core function is not the box but the controller. at least nintendo markets it like that

 

[poppabk]

well you think that the wiimote is the peripheral and thats where most of the video gaming journalists or analyists fail

the wii is the wiimote.. the wiimote is the main feature of the wii.. the box itself is nothing but "two gamecubes ducttaped together"

its the first console that treated the controller not as the peripheral you could say..

its funny how people still dont get it.. the wiis core function is not the box but the controller. at least nintendo markets it like that

The mistake is thinking that there is just one thing responsible for the success.

 

[farnham]

The mistake is thinking that there is just one thing responsible for the success.

but its no mistake to say that that was the marketing was done around the wiimote

 

[Stoney Mason]

I would be surprised if MS and Sony aren't reconsidering their markets going into next gen. Motion control isn't necessarily the future, accessibility is. The Wii succeeded because it is accessible to nearly all people. The motion controls facilitate this, but you could make an accessible console without motion controls and you can make an inaccessible console with motion controls (PS3). The entire Wii from its form factor to its GUI is designed to be non-intimidating. The remote looks like a remote because that is what people are familiar and comfortable with, its not actually the best form factor for a controller. It has less accessible buttons than you could reasonably fit on there, because multiple buttons intimidate new users. It has buttons labeled plus and minus, because everyone recognizes them as similar to the volume control on a remote, even though I can't think of a time that they are ever used as a literal plus or minus. The different software is in channels, because its a metaphor that people intuitively understand.
You can't replicate the Wii with a wiimote like controller.

Pretty much all of this is dead on the money which is why simply grafting on Wii controls to a ps3 or 360 or even a next gen system won't work. Nintendo changed the war. It's like fighting a modern war with a ww2 mentality.

 

[Kolgar]

It's not. It's almost as bad as car analogies, in fact.

I think the iPod analogy is apt. Like iPod, Wii is transcending being a mere "product." It's become a lifestyle accessory.