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[reptilescorpio]

Do wehave NZ numbers (or at least ratios) Loudninja? If you can add them in the list it might help those people confused by the meme! lol

PS360 numbers?

Creamsugar implied that PS3 was ahead of both 360/Wii U? I don't know why 360 numbers fell like that.

Maybe people bought a PS3 thinking it was a PS4!

 

[heidern]

My thoughts:
Nintendos strategy with the Wii was to get non-gamers and lapsed gamers to buy it. They used trojan horses including Wii Sports and Wii Fit. Their ultimate aim was to try to convert them into gamers. Result being that once they got the new gamers, they didn't directly cater to them. Third parties also overlooked this audience. Thus the new gamers became non-gamers again.
Fortunately for Nintendo they have a strong business model and lots of cash. They will have multiple opportunities to try to figure out a way to regrow their business(maybe starting with the QOL).

On the Sony/MS side of things. Someone who got a PS3/360 in their thirties and was happy playing GTA/FPS etc and is now in their forties may have mellowed out and not be interested in these types of games anymore. The ones in their twenties entered their thirties and may have mellowed out. The next generation may be brought up more on smartphones and casual gaming and may be less hardcore. In the same way a lot of Nintendos audience outgrew them and went to Sony in the 90s maybe Sony/MS audience has outgrown them and gone on to something else(tablets, PC, golf).
They have the advantage they've started off a lot stronger saleswise than Nintendo so they have more visibility and a larger game library. But their disadvantage is the weak business model. Development costs have gone up again and even sales being the same might not be good enough. Sales being lower could be disastrous to third parties and lead to a reduction in game development leading to lower console sales.

 

[SlipperySlope]

you have 130-140K for everything else i.e. 3DS, 360, PSV, PSP, NDS Wii.

Jesus, all of those combined for 130-140K? Disaster.

 

[Biker19]

Did anyone really think it would? Its demand is nowhere near the Wii's.

Huh? It wasn't?

 

[Guevara]

thoughtful post about smartphones

I agree and Apple and others have been telegraphing for a while that new categories of products are coming. The problem is that none of these new categories (wearables, tv consoles, watches) have a realistic chance of sustaining the same growth as phones and tablets did.

And on the subject of tablets, just as phones are pulling back, tablet sales may be peaking. I know people have been predicting peak-tablet for a while, but I think the signs are finally there. The future is more like a phablet than a phone AND a tablet for most people. And again, Apple has hinted that they are moving in this direction (and others already have).

I think the past few years were really unlikely to be repeated unless consumer electronics companies can find some new must have device. Nothing I've seen looks mass-market enough (e.g. Google glasses, watches, VR), or ready soon enough (e.g. self-driving cars). I actually think it's a good thing, replacing devices every year is extremely wasteful, but it will be tough going.

 

[StoopKid]

Maybe people bought a PS3 thinking it was a PS4!

Lol I could see some grandma's doing that.

 

[pieatorium]

how neither ms or sony slashed ps3/360 price before the next gen launch is puzzling to me. The people that would buy a $150 8 year old piece of tech would have 0 crossover with those buying the new systems

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

5 AAA? 800 Indy?

80M on 1 AAA game?! I'd say 10 AAA games.

 

[Domdev]

Nintendo answered this question when they laid out their 2014 plan in their investor call and the most recent Direct. They're not going to do anything to save the Wii U. They're going to let it die.

Exactly. Today's direct was a slap in the face to the wiiu. I see it stumbling through 2014, falling to the ground and convulsing in 2015, and getting put out of it's misery in 2016. There will be some dark years ahead for the wiiu.

 

[Mooreberg]

If you guys are freaking out right now about game console numbers - wait till you see how freaked out Apple and Samsung are regarding the future growth of smartphones and peoples' willingness to replace them in developed markets over the next 60 months.

Yup. This is why Google is spending billions of dollars on things that seem crazy now rather than doubling down on Motorola. You gotta stay step ahead of the game (or market as well as Apple does).

They really shit the bed. It was more MS blowing it than anything Sony did. All Microsoft had to do was release a console as powerful as PS4, without Kinect, $399, and none of the DRM drama and they would have won this gen. This epic blunder should be discussed in business classes down the line, it's that bad.

This has pretty much been the story every time. Nintendo blew it with cartridges. Sony blew it with $599. Microsoft is blowing it with Kinect + $499 + inferior versions of games that people typically associate with their platform.

That said, they have by far the easiest escape from shit creek. They've got infinitely more money to burn on correcting the price than Sony could have on PS3. Kinect wouldn't be missed by most. They've still got a lot of brand equity and carry a lot of favor with western gaming press. We'll see what happens.

 

[Guymelef]

January 2013

Xbox 360 - 281,000

January 2014

Xbox One + Xbox 360 - Under 190,000 (-33%)

And we asking why Aaron Greenberg are so quiet today...

 

[Cipherr]

According to Aqua and Creamsugar posts:

360<48K
50K<Ps3<55K

I cannot believe people think the 360 and the PS3 are going to do another 25% of their current LTD's.... Like.... they are totally not gonna sell another 20+ million. That gen was long as hell, people are going to move on very quickly.

 

[infiniteheteroskdasticity]

I'll repeat what I said in an earlier thread. The sales numbers for software and all non PS4 consoles do not imply doom for the industry. We just had a holiday season with 2 next gen console launches. Most other Holiday seasons would see gamers buy from 2-5 games at $60 a unit. This time they had to spend $400 - $500 + 2 - 5 $60 launch games. Anybody really think they'd go out and buy stuff in a January without any major releases?

Wait for Mar/Apr and I think you'll see software sales look a LOT healthier.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

People who started/re-started gaming on Wii didn't just stop all of a sudden. They just figured out that paying $50 is fucking clown shoes for pick up and play experiences, and there are many, many avenues to get cheaper games to pass the time.

Edit: Holy shit at 360 sales. Didn't see that one coming. At all. Thing should be $199 or less for the premium by now.

 

[outunderthestars]

Ok updated numbers:

US:
PS4: 2,273,000
Xbox One:1,960,000

UK:
PS4: 530,000
Xbox One: 364,000

Spain:
PS4:157,000
Xbox One:35,000

France:
PS4: 240k
Xbox One:126k

AU:
PS4: Outsold the Xbox One
Xbox One:65,917*first 3 days*

Germany:
PS4 250K
Xbox One 100K

Portugual:
PS4:21k

Wow. That is pretty damn impressive.

 

[KOHIPEET]

Jeez almost double in NA? Does anyone know what the worldwide numbers are?

(just woke up)

 

[pieatorium]

80M on 1 AAA game?! I'd say 10 AAA games.

Gotta include marketing, although they are likely to also be spending some amunt marketing this deal

 

[Kagari]

So does MS xbox division have enough trust to spent money on exclusive and create momentum or take a loss and price cut?

They need US. The damn design and ideology was all based on NFL. There is no way MS is going to let this continue in US

They would have to spend enough to cover lost PS4 sales at this point... which is probably not worth it.

 

[Aquamarine]

There is only one game this month that sold >100,000 on a single platform, hasn't happened in decades.

Best selling release? Call of Duty: Ghosts with only 330K.

 

[Riposte]

Of course, but who thinks otherwise? The same is true for AAA games. My point is just that people should be less stupid about letting rigid monikers define the intrinsic quality of something. Retro, indie, AAA...it is ultimately meaningless about where quality comes from.

I agree fancy marketing brands and prejudices towards them shouldn't get in the way of calling a game good, but there is a very real difference from the games people want (or at least, what I want) and games so-called "indie" devs (the devs that may appear in a thread as you describe) may be able to provide with any realistic consistency. Desperation isn't a good reason for me to lower my standards and I will continue to be unsatisfied with games that poorly emulate "retro" games, forgo any sort of interesting interactivity, or are limited to one clever idea and poor execution (in addition to having ugliness, tackiness, and/or a sense of smallness). I know this is probably not what you really mean to say, but this is what it sounds like to me; It almost sounds like bargaining. I agree people shouldn't whine so much; people on GAF seemingly spend most of their internet time complaining about something or another. I'm quick to be optimistic and hesitant to complain even if things go for the worst.

In my optimism, I actually think "mid-tier" (e.g., Japanese, fancy strategy) games will continue to exist beyond all expectations, as they have been able to make for some of the best games even now after having been declared dead for years. It keeps happening and I'll be appreciative of that even after this stops (as my "backlog" goes back for decades).

 

[Sandfox]

Yup. This is why Google is spending billions of dollars on things that seem crazy now rather than doubling down on Motorola. You gotta stay step ahead of the game (or market as well as Apple does).


This has pretty much been the story every time. Nintendo blew it with cartridges. Sony blew it with $599. Microsoft is blowing it with Kinect + $499 + inferior versions of games that people typically associate with their platform.

That said, they have by far the easiest escape from shit creek. They've got infinitely more money to burn on correcting the price than Sony could have on PS3. Kinect wouldn't be missed by most. They've still got a lot of brand equity and carry a lot of favor with western gaming press. We'll see what happens.

MS may have a lot of money but that doesn't mean their willing to spend a crazy amount on the Xbox

I cannot believe people think the 360 and the PS3 are going to do another 25% of their current LTD's.... Like.... they are totally not gonna sell another 20+ million. That gen was long as hell, people are going to move on very quickly.

Pretty much. The PS3 and 360 have no chance of passing the Wii at this point.

 

[Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule]

Hi

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

I cannot believe people think the 360 and the PS3 are going to do another 25% of their current LTD's.... Like.... they are totally not gonna sell another 20+ million. That gen was long as hell, people are going to move on very quickly.

It's possible for the PS3 if the price ever drops down the PS2 levels. Those sales aren't going to be in the US or EU or Japan obviously. They're going to be in markets like Brazil, India, UAE or China.

 

[AlphaDump]

I dont think the market is dying, i just think Sony is the only one that didn't completely shit the bed. For the first time ever MS and Nintendo revealed their products to a lot of negativity and consumer skepticism. It was tangible in the air at the initial conferences with legit boos even. Not to mention the events leading up to and after launch.

Time will tell, but this launch has been anything but normal for the industry.

 

[iamshadowlark]

A potato going against MS's stellar handling of the X1 could've tracked above the PS3.

I don't think so, people usually aren't compelled to spend hundreds of dollars on things they don't want. Its far more likely that they keep their money. Sony put out a good product.

 

[grkazan12]

This might sound crazy. Couldn't Microsoft release a beefed up One without Kinect. Maybe begin an Apple like cycle (doesn't have to be every year) where a newer ,faster, slimmer model comes out to replace the older one.

I know developers wouldn't like it and Xbox One owners would be furious but it could solve the power gap between the One and the PS4 early on. I know they're different products, but at $400 without Kinect it would be like upgrading an iPad.

 

[quest]

There is only one game this month that sold >100,000 on a single platform, hasn't happened in decades.

Best selling release? Call of Duty: Ghosts with only 330K.

Thank you but that says it all about the state of the industry its dying.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

Gotta include marketing, although they are likely to also be spending some amunt marketing this deal

Well, Uncharted 2 had a budget of $20M for the production. Add $20M for the marketing.

 

[Biker19]

The problem is that, apparently, the PS4 is the only "next gen" system people want now. And its probably not going to do anywhere near PS2 numbers. So the market is going to shrink a lot compared to the 7th gen.

I dont think the market is dying, i just think Sony is the only one that didn't completely shit the bed. For the first time ever MS and Nintendo revealed their products to a lot of negativity and consumer skepticism. It was tangible in the air at the initial conferences with legit boos even. Not to mention the events leading up to and after launch.

Time will tell, but this launch has been anything but normal for the industry.

It's very simple: Both Nintendo & Microsoft have made both Wii U & Xbox One very unappealing to a lot of people compared to both Wii & Xbox 360 last gen & didn't give them a good reason as to why they should buy them.

Last gen, PS3 was the console that was unappealing to people until about September 2009.

 

[Piggus]

It's not really /floundering/. It is low this month and would need something to boost it up before it lands itself in hot water though.

Removing the expensive camera is the fastest way to make it profitable at a cheaper price.

Yes, but how would they differentiate it from the PS4 then? It would be a less powerful, bulkier console for the same price. I don't see how that would help them. They need to put a larger emphasis on first party support the way Sony did and if they're going to sell it without Kinect, they need to undercut Sony on price.

PR and policies that don't insult the intelligence of their customers would also help.

 

[reptilescorpio]

It's possible for the PS3 if the price ever drops down the PS2 levels. Those sales aren't going to be in the US or EU or Japan obviously. They're going to be in markets like Brazil, India, UAE or China.

Yeah, Sony have recently created a few positions in those areas like UAE (hi AgentWhiskers!) to get involved more in the developing markets. That's where the money for last gen consoles will be.

 

[noobasuar]

There is only one game this month that sold >100,000 on a single platform, hasn't happened in decades.

Best selling release? Call of Duty: Ghosts with only 330K.

Yup. It's all over.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

Thank you but that says it all about the state of the industry its dying.

That's just physical though.

 

[tehrik-e-insaaf]

Hopefully a desperate Micosoft can be a great Microsoft. I am eager to hear what the conversations are like at the Xbox division offices right now. To me, as someone who primarily owns more games on his xbox one right now, this is good news.

I think all this is win win for the console stuff going on, well, except Nintendo.

The conversations at MSFT are most likely:

"Let's put out a press release saying we are investing another $500 million for our commitment to the product - this is a marketing issue and we have to responnd"

"Let's call Goldman's TMT guys and see if they can find a buyer or recommend the best time to spin off the unit and take as much cash as we can off the table"'

"Let's put that cash into Surface Pro 5 with 1.2 Teraflops and compatibility with all PC games and get Xbox One users to transition in a few years"

"Let's save one platform (Windows) that makes money and consolidate our users there, rather than dividing our users across two"

Microsoft doesn't innovate out of situations, it buys its way out or kills the whole project altogether.

There is tremendous pressure on the new CEO to make a decisive commitment to Windows and either double-down on saving it and perhaps forcing Xbox users onto Surface - or going all-in on Enterprise.

In either case the Xbox experiment doesn't have a high probability of surviving past this generation.

 

[MercuryLS]

It's possible for the PS3 if the price ever drops down the PS2 levels. Those sales aren't going to be in the US or EU or Japan obviously. They're going to be in markets like Brazil, India, UAE or China.

With the included HDD there is no chance of the PS3 getting to sub $100 PS2-like pricing. It just isn't possible.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I dont think the market is dying, i just think Sony is the only one that didn't completely shit the bed. For the first time ever MS and Nintendo revealed their products to a lot of negativity and consumer skepticism. It was tangible in the air at the initial conferences with legit boos even. Not to mention the events leading up to and after launch.

Time will tell, but this launch has been anything but normal for the industry.

The problem with console gaming is console manufacturers. Maybe an Amazon console or a successful Steambox (yeah right) would help them pull their heads out of their asses.

 

[RetroStu]

Shouldn't we at least wait until after the next Christmas before we declare 'the death of consoles'?. All this data says to me is that the PS4 is going to be the dominant console this gen unless microsoft pull their fingers out of there arse and drop the price of the X1 while dropping Kinect as well.

I simply can't believe that gamers whether they are casual or hardcore, will abandon 'real' games to go play some 5 minute throw away crap on their phones or tablets, i just can't.
I feel the difference probably this gen is that both main and expensive consoles launched at the same time, 360 and PS3 had a year seperating them and i'm guessing in the current economy that 2 expensive consoles are simply not viable in the current market and Microsoft maybe suffering because of that.

Gaming is such a huge industry now and i don't believe its a past time or hobby that people can love one minute then give up the next. Gaming is going nowhere so people just need to stop jumping the gun constantly and declaring that gaming/console gaming is about to die everytime we get a bad month. The worst case scenario i see is that the PS4 could get close to PS2 level of dominance which would still mean a healthy industry.

If all else fails then a new PC or Steam Box maybe the way to go to keep playing 'real' games as PC's will always be around and therefor PC games will always be around.

 

[speculawyer]

Not a single new game on that list unless you are willing to call Tomb Raider DE for PS4bone "new".

 

[quest]

That's just physical though.

Still that is rock bottom. Not like digital sales going to make up for it with the horrible pricing. If retail was that bad imagine digital sale yikes.

 

[darkwing]

Wow, the NFL deal was $400M? I guess that is what huge warchests are for

 

[dragonbane]

There is only one game this month that sold >100,000 on a single platform, hasn't happened in decades.

Best selling release? Call of Duty: Ghosts with only 330K.

Minecraft still going strong lol

Well, Uncharted 2 had a budget of $20M for the production. Add $20M for the marketing.

2009 though. Budgets increased since then. Both UC3 and TLoU were more expensive for example.

Hi

Hi, King of Hyrule.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

The industry can shrink and focus again on good design rather than modeling serial numbers and dog teeth to please a tiny audience of users.

I am ridiculously excited about indie developers and believe they will push new types of game play. I also believe if consoles are going to match last gen's userbase, it is going to be because of something amazing an indie or small studio produces. I see less probability in the "AAA" stuff driving demand going forward because those experiences aren't novel anymore.

What's more exciting: if these behemoth "AAA" studios slim down and a bunch just die out, we could experience another golden age of gaming where we get late 80s through mid 90s level awesomeness with teams of 5-30 people coming together to make well-designed games targeting a variety of users and needs. You will be able to play those games anywhere... on the iPad or your phone or maybe even on your new smart watch... with a variety of different input methods (from pedometer to camera to touch to traditional controls) and features...

Agreed immensely with this part right here.

Interesting to hear about smartphone stagnation, though. No one brings that up and thinks it'll forever keep growing. The phones already are pretty damn good, so it sounds believable that decline.

 

[quest]

Shouldn't we at least wait until after the next Christmas before we declare 'the death of consoles'?. All this data says to me is that the PS4 is going to be the dominant console this gen unless microsoft pull their fingers out of there arse and drop the price of the X1 while dropping Kinect as well.

I simply can't believe that gamers whether they are casual or hardcore, will abandon 'real' games to go play some 5 minute throw away crap on their phones or tablets, i just can't.
I feel the difference probably this gen is that both main and expensive consoles launched at the same time, 360 and PS3 had a year seperating them and i'm guessing in the current economy that 2 expensive consoles are simply not viable in the current market and Microsoft maybe suffering because of that.

Gaming is such a huge industry now and i don't believe its a past time or hobby that people can love one minute then give up the next. Gaming is going nowhere so people just need to stop jumping the gun constantly and declaring that gaming/console gaming is about to die everytime we get a bad month. The worst case scenario i see is that the PS4 could get close to PS2 level of dominance which would still mean a healthy industry.

If all else fails then a new PC or Steam Box maybe the way to go to keep playing 'real' games as PC's will always be around and therefor PC games will always be around.

The issue is first gen modern gamers like me are retiring and less kids are picking up the hobbie because of mobile and FTP browser games. So it is a slow net loss over time which we are really seeing. Only 1 title over 100k that bad bad bad.

 

[And_Gignac]

There is only one game this month that sold >100,000 on a single platform, hasn't happened in decades.

Best selling release? Call of Duty: Ghosts with only 330K.

Extremely worrisome.

 

[pieatorium]

Yup. It's all over.

since we all like our 2007 comparisons

1. 360 LOST PLANET: EXTREME CONDITION 329k

 

[ramuh]

I guess I'm going to wait until Feb and March numbers to fully spell doom and gloom on our hobby/profession. I hope beyond all things that consoles continue a cyclical rise in sales. Otherwise, this is too damn depressing.

 

[nib95]

they spent 400 million on that nfl deal. Think how many games worth of money that is.

Plus another 1 billion on games, another 100m+ on TitanFall exclusivity, 100m on the controller and a crap tonne more on marketing.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

There is only one game this month that sold >100,000 on a single platform, hasn't happened in decades.

Best selling release? Call of Duty: Ghosts with only 330K.

I really wonder how DD is effecting NPD most people i know buying stuff on DD for next gen .
And in the future it going to have a bigger impact even so more on certain types of games for eg fighting .

 

[A_Gorilla]

The conversations at MSFT are most likely:

"Let's put out a press release saying we are investing another $500 million for our commitment to the product - this is a marketing issue and we have to responnd"

"Let's call Goldman's TMT guys and see if they can find a buyer or recommend the best time to spin off the unit and take as much cash as we can off the table"'

"Let's put that cash into Surface Pro 5 with 1.2 Teraflops and compatibility with all PC games and get Xbox One users to transition in a few years"

"Let's save one platform (Windows) that makes money and consolidate our users there, rather than dividing our users across two"

Microsoft doesn't innovate out of situations, it buys its way out or kills the whole project altogether.

There is tremendous pressure on the new CEO to make a decisive commitment to Windows and either double-down on saving it and perhaps forcing Xbox users onto Surface - or going all-in on Enterprise.

In either case the Xbox experiment doesn't have a high probability of surviving past this generation.

I really don't think even Microsoft would throw its customers under the table like that just cause the product is falter--

*remembers the Zune*

Ohh, nevermind...

 

[MetalGuardian]

Another month, another sad state of affairs for Wii U

I'm glad Sony is doing so well though. They deserve it.

I find it odd that ALBW has only sold a few thousand copies more than Mario 3D World considering they came out the same day, and the install base for 3DS is so much higher.

It's depressing to no end seeing how goddam well call of fucky still sells. Sigh!