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[Replicant]

MS' biggest mistake was thinking that customers in general will just bend over and take their DRM crap and relinquished their ownership right after purchasing a software.

It'd have been fine if they got caught with their pants down and apologized but they didn't. They doubled, tripled, and quadrupled on their asshole-ness. They were UNREPENTANT throughout the whole launch. Instead they enlisted the help of the media and the ever-reliable 'game journalist' to spread the gospel of their DRM, making fun of the customers who resist their stupid plan.

Enjoy reaping what you sow, MS.

 

[slavesnyder]

I cannot begin to tell you how little mindshare with the development community Sony had leading into the announcement of the next gen consoles. Every significant third party partner had been consulted, but the bulk of interest in where the industry was about to go to revolved around Microsoft's launch. That they didn't read the market, or communicate the benefits of their vision adequately enough, meant that mindshare began to trickle back. After Sony nailed their launch that trickle became a torrent and then a flood.

What would have happened had Microsoft been a little more conservative? Hard to say, but there is no doubt that swing would not have been that severe.

There is so much to write on that period. One day it'll get done.

Send me a PM when you do this, pleeease. I really don't want to miss this only because of stupid coincidences.

Also: If Coke starts sweetening it's soft drinks with cow poo, I am sure more people would drink Pepsi.

And: Asking for a perma ban is stupid, it only makes sense if someone with a baseball bat asks you to do so.

 

[Javin98]

MS' biggest mistake was thinking that customers in general will just bend over and take their DRM crap and relinquished their ownership right after purchasing a software.

It'd have been fine if they got caught with their pants down and apologized but they didn't. They doubled, triple, and quadruple on their asshole-ness. They were UNREPENTANT throughout the whole launch. Instead they enlisted the help of the media and the ever-reliable 'game journalist' to spread the gospel of their DRM, making fun of the customers who resist their stupid plan.

I hope you really enjoy reaping what you sow, MS.

That's not all, too. Even now, I think most of us would agree that Microsoft aren't really apologetic for their initial DRM plans. The whole 180 was a result of backlash from consumers and retailers and poor pre order numbers. Had sales been just fine you can bet that Microsoft would carry out those DRM plans. I honestly can't believe they tried to pull this crap.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

My favourite thing about the XB1 reveal was how journalists doubled down on the nonsense, despite the fact that Microsoft couldn't explain it and the fact public perception was just in complete shock.

"Sony too" became the excuse. Sony will do the same thing, despite the fact there was never any indication of it.

Then Microsoft insisted we didn't understand their vision, a vision they failed, despite numerous opportunities, to explain and justify.

Then, when they finally relented and changed (due to pre-orders being in the toilet), they still insisted the public was stupid for not getting it, it was our fault.

No time for that and any journalist who backed it should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[slavesnyder]

That's strange because PS3 sold virtually the same of 360, Playstation is a big brand, so I wonder why the industry was leaning so much to Microsoft side.

Basically trend extrapolation and same thoughts as in the legendary gen-prediction thread, just on business level.
360 > Xbox
PS3 < PS2
So XboxOne > PS4
Add some Sony is broke, MS has deep pockets, Sony forgot how to design a good and simple console and MS has key competence in the 2 deciding factors: online and shooters

 

[Into]

My favourite thing about the XB1 reveal was how journalists doubled down on the nonsense, despite the fact that Microsoft couldn't explain it and the fact public perception was just in complete shock.

"Sony too" became the excuse. Sony will do the same thing, despite the fact there was never any indication of it.

Then Microsoft insisted we didn't understand their vision, a vision they failed, despite numerous opportunities, to explain and justify.

Then, when they finally relented and changed (due to pre-orders being in the toilet), they still insisted the public was stupid for not getting it, it was our fault.

No time for that and any journalist who backed it should be ashamed of themselves.

Well said

Its one thing that suits at MS were blinded by their own ambition and greed, but to see alleged "gamers" not being able to see what a trainwreck this was, was disappointing and really opened my eyes to how detached even game journalists were from their own audience, no wonder people are fleeing to YouTube and Twitch.

Its almost like self loathing of their own hobby, to constantly talk down to their audience, even when said audience actually for once did send a message to MS that this was not gonna fly, they largely tried to take even that away by claiming MS on its own decided not to do this, just..one day decided "nah", with no regards to the consumers desires.


I know that enthusiast talk a big game, we all do it, and often fail in boycotts and such. But the XBO debacle was a clear victory for the consumers and nobody can seemingly acknowledge it, because people who enjoy this hobby have to always be looked down upon.

 

[SMOK3Y]

That's strange because PS3 sold virtually the same of 360, Playstation is a big brand, so I wonder why the industry was leaning so much to Microsoft side.

Sure the successor of Xbox 360 was positioned to sell big, but I would not rule Sony out in any moment.

I think mainly because of the US difference of sales between PS3-X360

 

[Ryaaan14]

Enjoy reaping what you sow, MS.

They're probably crying over their candlelit ramen noodles wondering why they're hemorrhaging money

 

[slavesnyder]

They're probably crying over their candlelit ramen noodles wondering why they're hemorrhaging money

Ramen is for rice eaters. Real first class provosts eat orthmeal.

 

[kyser73]

MS went into the Xbone reveal with the sense of entitlement that came from the wider corporate influences within the company.

The corporate arrogance of Sony was nothing on MS during the 90s & early 00s when many of the executive team who had a hand on the 'take the living room' strategy would have been coming up through the ranks.

The whole DRM thing, the endless attempts to lock consumers into the MS ecosystem is an extension of MS' approach to corporate business. Arguably Xbone is the last product of an era where MS lost its sense of direction - an era typified by W8.

 

[unapersson]

Send me a PM when you do this, pleeease. I really don't want to miss this only because of stupid coincidences.

Also: If Coke starts sweetening it's soft drinks with cow poo, I am sure more people would drink Pepsi.

And: Asking for a perma ban is stupid, it only makes sense if someone with a baseball bat asks you to do so.

Aqua didn't ask for a permanent ban for fun, pretty sure her employer forced her with a metaphorical baseball bat.

 

[Conduit]

MS' biggest mistake was thinking that customers in general will just bend over and take their DRM crap and relinquished their ownership right after purchasing a software.

It'd have been fine if they got caught with their pants down and apologized but they didn't. They doubled, tripled, and quadrupled on their asshole-ness. They were UNREPENTANT throughout the whole launch. Instead they enlisted the help of the media and the ever-reliable 'game journalist' to spread the gospel of their DRM, making fun of the customers who resist their stupid plan.

Enjoy reaping what you sow, MS.

Instead, MS blamed gamers due to lack of understanding of their Xbone plans.

 

[allan-bh]

Very amateurish by Microsoft announce the plan about used games without consulting a larger part of the industry, Queso's description of how things happened was shocking.

 

[Bluth54]

I imagine that eventually all the systems will have DRM similar to what Microsoft was proposing for Xbox One or similar to Steam, but Microsoft just tried to do it one or two gens too early.

Of course their arrogance about the whole thing and how they eventually had to do a 180 is pretty unprecedented. Along with some of their other bad decisions, like forcing the Kinect to be bundled in with the system at launch is just crazy, it just seems like they were making one bad decision after another. I hope that someday we get a making of the Xbox One book similar to how there is one for the making of the Xbox and 360, I'm sure it would be an amazing read.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

My favourite thing about the XB1 reveal was how journalists doubled down on the nonsense, despite the fact that Microsoft couldn't explain it and the fact public perception was just in complete shock.

"Sony too" became the excuse. Sony will do the same thing, despite the fact there was never any indication of it.

Then Microsoft insisted we didn't understand their vision, a vision they failed, despite numerous opportunities, to explain and justify.

Then, when they finally relented and changed (due to pre-orders being in the toilet), they still insisted the public was stupid for not getting it, it was our fault.

No time for that and any journalist who backed it should be ashamed of themselves.

Everything from some in the media acting as shills for DRM to Doritos gate really soured me on just how trust worthy and reliable gaming media wasn't. At one time it looked like a lot of them were just doing it to get industry jobs.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I cannot begin to tell you how little mindshare with the development community Sony had leading into the announcement of the next gen consoles. Every significant third party partner had been consulted, but the bulk of interest in where the industry was about to go to revolved around Microsoft's launch. That they didn't read the market, or communicate the benefits of their vision adequately enough, meant that mindshare began to trickle back. After Sony nailed their launch that trickle became a torrent and then a flood.

What would have happened had Microsoft been a little more conservative? Hard to say, but there is no doubt that swing would not have been that severe.

There is so much to write on that period. One day it'll get done.

Very interesting since Sony sold the same amount of consoles in less time last gen .
Plus you would think companies could see what was happening even before launch .
Since it was rather easy to see and a lot of people online did see it .

 

[Bastables]

I imagine that eventually all the systems will have DRM similar to what Microsoft was proposing for Xbox One or similar to Steam, but Microsoft just tried to do it one or two gens too early.

Of course their arrogance about the whole thing and how they eventually had to do a 180 is pretty unprecedented. Along with some of their other bad decisions, like forcing the Kinect to be bundled in with the system at launch is just crazy, it just seems like they were making one bad decision after another. I hope that someday we get a making of the Xbox One book similar to how there is one for the making of the Xbox and 360, I'm sure it would be an amazing read.

There is a gaping chasm between Microsofts proposed Xboxone's DRM scheme and what Steam does and does not employ. Why would you equate them?

 

[small44]

When you watch some girl dance with hula hoops for a hour or see a family of hillbillies arguing with the people leaving comments in playroom you will know that these are not only PS3/Xbox 360 gamers buying the PS4.

I fail to see what you mean by this exemple

 

[Omnistalgic]

Finally an interesting NPD thread! Tks insiders

 

[allan-bh]

I noted that The Division and Quantum Break bundles includes digital code, but in Gamestop is physical copy (due to their new policy).

If this start to increase Gamestop share of Xbox One sales, other stores will be upset with Microsoft.

 

[jbluzb]

Sad &#128546; we don't get numbers anymore. It was too good while it lasted.

 

[BritBloke916]

I hope that someday we get a making of the Xbox One book similar to how there is one for the making of the Xbox and 360, I'm sure it would be an amazing read.

There will eventually be a book called 'Great Marketing Disasters of the 21st Century' and one of its chapters will simply be titled 'Xbox One'.

 

[allan-bh]

Sad &#128546; we don't get numbers anymore. It was too good while it lasted.

Calm down, George wasn't our only source.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

Still no cream? I'm now blaming him for the PS4's success! Goddammit.

 

[gamz]

There is a gaping chasm between Microsofts proposed Xboxone's DRM scheme and what Steam does and does not employ. Why would you equate them?

I don't use Steam so what's the difference? If you download a game on Xbox or Steam is the same, no?

 

[ethomaz]

Breakfast without cream

 

[travisbickle]

I imagine that eventually all the systems will have DRM similar to what Microsoft was proposing for Xbox One or similar to Steam, but Microsoft just tried to do it one or two gens too early.

Of course their arrogance about the whole thing and how they eventually had to do a 180 is pretty unprecedented. Along with some of their other bad decisions, like forcing the Kinect to be bundled in with the system at launch is just crazy, it just seems like they were making one bad decision after another. I hope that someday we get a making of the Xbox One book similar to how there is one for the making of the Xbox and 360, I'm sure it would be an amazing read.

The company that decides to do an all drm console will have to be willing to reset to 0 for user base. It's not like Steam opened with 20 million people wanting to buy from them. And instead, grow a user base out of grass roots development of the idea.

I initially believed they'd got the go-ahead to make a console just like that. Top management at MS were willingly backing a console people would hate initially but could grow into a profitable service model. But then they committed the 180s, like they actually just thought the idea would be popular?

 

[BritBloke916]

I initially believed they'd got the go-ahead to make a console just like that. Top management at MS were willingly backing a console people would hate initially but could grow into a profitable service model. But then they committed the 180s, like they actually just thought the idea would be popular?

A little too much CoolAid served up at MS meetings, I suppose. Albert "No way PS4 is more powerful, we invented DirectX" Penello being a case in point.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I cannot begin to tell you how little mindshare with the development community Sony had leading into the announcement of the next gen consoles. Every significant third party partner had been consulted, but the bulk of interest in where the industry was about to go to revolved around Microsoft's launch. That they didn't read the market, or communicate the benefits of their vision adequately enough, meant that mindshare began to trickle back. After Sony nailed their launch that trickle became a torrent and then a flood.

What would have happened had Microsoft been a little more conservative? Hard to say, but there is no doubt that swing would not have been that severe.

There is so much to write on that period. One day it'll get done.

I'd love to read it. That whole period was just so crazy. I don't think neogaf has every been as consistently interesting to read as during the whole period with Durango/Orbis rumours, Orthgate, new console reveals, #ps4NoDRM et cetera. Crazy times.

 

[onQ123]

I fail to see what you mean by this exemple

It mean that it's everyday people buying the PS4 & not just your typical gamers. people are doing 24 hour live streaming of their homes & so on these are not just PS3/Xbox 360 gamers buying the PS4. You don't sell 37 million in 2 years without reaching into a new market.

 

[QaaQer]

What leads them to such a decision of misfound confidence that both consumer and retailer will fall into line?!?



ps3ud0 8)

Most executives are testosterone heavy, type-a alpha males who have no trouble streamrolling people or institutions, combine that with a large egos and...

 

[Bluth54]

There is a gaping chasm between Microsofts proposed Xboxone's DRM scheme and what Steam does and does not employ. Why would you equate them?

I meant that all games either bought at retail or through the digital storefront gives you a digital copy and the physical copy is basically a CD key and install disk.

 

[QaaQer]

And: Asking for a perma ban is stupid, it only makes sense if someone with a baseball bat asks you to do so.

In all fairness, gaf--like all social media--can be addictive. And if someone with access to proprietary information cannot restrain themselves from sharing that information for whatever reasons, permaban might ultimately be the best solution before real world catches up.

On the other hand, it might be taking away a harmless support mechanism that some might need in periods of stress. I guess level of damage depends if gaf is used like chronic masterbation or cigarettes or crack and whether it is done in public.

 

[slavesnyder]

In all fairness, gaf--like all social media--can be addictive. And if someone with access to proprietary information cannot restrain themselves from sharing that information for whatever reasons, permaban might ultimately be the best solution before real world catches up.

That's a very good point. Agree. Getting rid of temptation is not the worst reason. If I had access to data it might also constantly itch...
Anyway let's stop with this issue. It leads to nothing but sentimentality, tears and angry mods.

 

[EGM1966]

Very amateurish by Microsoft announce the plan about used games without consulting a larger part of the industry, Queso's description of how things happened was shocking.

It's another action that implies MS really weren't ready to announce XB1 and were rushed by Sony's launch announcement.

Certainly MS reveal of XB1 had all the hallmarks of a company that simply hadn't got all its ducks in a row yet. Executives and PR literally contradicting themselves publicly about policies and features. Then the sudden jump from 4GB to 8GB for PS4 on the back of the negative responses to their positioning and they weren't just suddenly on their back foot they were publicly reeling and flailing around which did indeed make them look amateurish.

I'd love a really in depth behind scenes understanding around both Sony and MS run up to the reveals (and of course afterwards what was going on at MS during the 180s). Would be hugely interesting and also bound to be entertaining too.

 

[rpg_fan]

I cannot begin to tell you how little mindshare with the development community Sony had leading into the announcement of the next gen consoles.

I know that ps3 had a terrible reputation to develop for, but really this bad? I wonder how many bad ports were due to the feeling they were forced to release on ps3, when they really didn't want to.

 

[Raylan]

That's not all, too. Even now, I think most of us would agree that Microsoft aren't really apologetic for their initial DRM plans. The whole 180 was a result of backlash from consumers and retailers and poor pre order numbers. Had sales been just fine you can bet that Microsoft would carry out those DRM plans. I honestly can't believe they tried to pull this crap.

Just read the thread Amir0x made: The Xbox One Reveal - A Tragic Play in Three Parts

 

[KurtSloane]

It's another action that implies MS really weren't ready to announce XB1 and were rushed by Sony's launch announcement.

Certainly MS reveal of XB1 had all the hallmarks of a company that simply hadn't got all its ducks in a row yet. Executives and PR literally contradicting themselves publicly about policies and features. Then the sudden jump from 4GB to 8GB for PS4 on the back of the negative responses to their positioning and they weren't just suddenly on their back foot they were publicly reeling and flailing around which did indeed make them look amateurish.

I'd love a really in depth behind scenes understanding around both Sony and MS run up to the reveals (and of course afterwards what was going on at MS during the 180s). Would be hugely interesting and also bound to be entertaining too.

PS4 was revealed way before the X1, it was known to be 8gb for months.

Quite simply MS over estimated their standing in the market and their influence upon it. They where cocky from 360 successes and under estimated Sony, whom, like many on here believed were done for.

So they released an over priced, under powered box with an initial reveal about American TV and sports, segregated markets into tiers and of course had the idea they could get away with draconian DRM and the removal of the preowned market.


Sony released the best box for the money they could, at a lower price than the competitor, with a clear and singular vision.


MS's fuck up is matched by Sony's good work,MS deserve where they are.

 

[small44]

It mean that it's everyday people buying the PS4 & not just your typical gamers. people are doing 24 hour live streaming of their homes & so on these are not just PS3/Xbox 360 gamers buying the PS4. You don't sell 37 million in 2 years without reaching into a new market.

Gaming still the main reason to buy a consoles.Of course some would use him just for streaming but their no way you could proof that they are a huge group.
Ps4 is less expensive then PS3 and had a better launch games so many people bought PS4 earlier and XboxOne is starting to less worse than Xbox360.
In the end of the gen I expect PS4+XboxOne sales to be close to PS3+Xbox360.

 

[Bastables]

I don't use Steam so what's the difference? If you download a game on Xbox or Steam is the same, no?

No Steam has a several states of DRM that can be applied to games individually
1 Steam DRM
2 third party DRM
3 No DRM http://steam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games
4 Steam DRM and third party DRM
You can also be offline for much longer than a day.

Not at all like Xboxone's check every 24 hrs, if check fail's bar use of all games on the system.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Wait, there are people now arguing that the PS4 is only being sold to PS360 owners and not new gamers? All of a sudden gaming lives in a vacuum? All of a sudden we forget what our "first console" was? All of a sudden we forget that tons of people last gen said the 360/Wii/PS3 was their FIRST CONSOLE, or the gen before that, or the gen before that?

Man listen. lol

 

[ethomaz]

Cream please save this thread.

We love u.

 

[slavesnyder]

I'd love a really in depth behind scenes understanding around both Sony and MS run up to the reveals (and of course afterwards what was going on at MS during the 180s). Would be hugely interesting and also bound to be entertaining too.

I'd love to see a movie about it. Better two. A David Fincher and a Woody Allen version.

 

[Elandyll]

I'd love to see a movie about it. Better two. A David Fincher and a Woody Allen version.

You know what would make an awesome movie imo?
Something around the creation of the Cell and the shennanigans that led to the 360 releasing a year ahead of the PS3.

 

[harrisk954]

Supply issues for years? 360 is not Wii.

Let's dispel the notion that Ars Technica doesn't know what they're doing, they know exactly what they're doing.

Marco?? Is that you???

 

[N.Domixis]

Looks like this is the end for NPDS threads, with no numbers, it will begin to lose people.

 

[Kagari]

Cream please save this thread.

We love u.

You begged for him to post charts twice on the same page. Chill out, man. He'll post them if he wants and if he doesn't we just have to deal with it.

 

[slavesnyder]

You know what would make an awesome movie imo?
Something around the creation of the Cell and the shennanigans that led to the 360 releasing a year ahead of the PS3.

Is it good? Thanks for the hint. Will order.
Edit: done. 1,50€ on the marketplace should be not too risky

 

[Elandyll]

Is it good? Thanks for the hint. Will order.
Edit: done. 1,50€ on the marketplace should be not too risky

Have just read excerpts so far, but remembering about it this morning made me order it for my kindle app hehe.

Looks like either Cream is on a break, or we simply might not have any numbers this month. Bummer.

 

[Obliterator]

Very amateurish by Microsoft announce the plan about used games without consulting a larger part of the industry, Queso's description of how things happened was shocking.

Ohhh there's a mountain of insanity that went down behind the scenes.