The third side of the coin (lol) is that Japan is Nintendo's strongest market, which (outside of a few weird exceptions) is not a market where 3rd party western titles have ever sold well, regardless of quality. I think the long-term outcome is that Japan 3rd party will shift heavily Wii, but western 3rd parties (and Capcom) will remain strongly invested in the 360 (which will also likely still have a good lead in marketshare in the west into 2008, especially if Nintendo does still have production problems).titiklabingapat said:
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NPD Sales Results for July 2007
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
bigmakstudios
Banned
I have a question: will there ever be games on Wii that are truly impossible on 360 and PS3 (i'm not talking about just a control method... i'm talking about games that are simply impossible with ps3/360 controllers... stuff that is closer to 1:1)?
Randy Lanzarote
Member
Out of interest, and since its the first time I entered, when do the results of the prediction thread get posted? I want to see who predicted the Wii selling more than the DS (if anyone!)
I kind of wish people would stop generalizing the demographics of Wii or any other console for that matter. Stop making statements like "well I wonder if the casuals/non-gamers/grandmas will buy this software."
Did I miss some sort of study that has been released lately that says exactly what kind of gamer the majority of Wii owners are? I think too many people are taking Nintendo's PR crap to heart and think that those grandparents in nursing homes playing Wii are actually buying the systems for themselves and make up a large part of the demographic. Which, is just plain unrealistic.
I have no doubt that Wii's userbase is probably different than that of 360 or PS3, but to just automatically assume that these non-gamers are taking a majority role is unfounded. The best bet is that most of the userbase is your normal casual gamer who enjoys and buys games, but doesn't keep up with things like the average GAF user. The same people that make up the biggest portion of any other console's userbase.
Did I miss some sort of study that has been released lately that says exactly what kind of gamer the majority of Wii owners are? I think too many people are taking Nintendo's PR crap to heart and think that those grandparents in nursing homes playing Wii are actually buying the systems for themselves and make up a large part of the demographic. Which, is just plain unrealistic.
I have no doubt that Wii's userbase is probably different than that of 360 or PS3, but to just automatically assume that these non-gamers are taking a majority role is unfounded. The best bet is that most of the userbase is your normal casual gamer who enjoys and buys games, but doesn't keep up with things like the average GAF user. The same people that make up the biggest portion of any other console's userbase.
I must be missing something here... if the worst we have to fear with Wii in a leadership position is Metroid Prime, SMG, Resident Wiivil, Godfather, Scarface, SSBB, Guitar Hero, Rock Band (eventually), Zelda, Super Paper Mario, Madden 08 (sans horrible online bug), etc.. umm... what were we saying again?
This premise that the Wii doesn't and won't have great games appealing to the core gamer audience for it is shit and anyone saying such is spewing sour grapes and nothing more.
Are you really that pissed that "your console" isn't in first place that you run around proclaiming a bunch of flat out lies and mistruths that Wii is filled exclusively with mini-games and non-games to make yourself feel better that sales are low on the titles you buy for the systems you own?
I love sales threads for the outrage and shock as much as the next guy, but some of you guys are coming across as worry-wart crybabies. Grow a pair, by the fucking games you want, and stop worrying about who is in first or second or how many people decided to buy a particular title in a given month. Because obviously sales are too worrying and stressing for you. I don't see any of you guys worrying that the wiggles have sold like 10,000,000,000 DVDs, so why the fuck are you worrying that people buying wii fit will mean any more than that?
This premise that the Wii doesn't and won't have great games appealing to the core gamer audience for it is shit and anyone saying such is spewing sour grapes and nothing more.
Are you really that pissed that "your console" isn't in first place that you run around proclaiming a bunch of flat out lies and mistruths that Wii is filled exclusively with mini-games and non-games to make yourself feel better that sales are low on the titles you buy for the systems you own?
I love sales threads for the outrage and shock as much as the next guy, but some of you guys are coming across as worry-wart crybabies. Grow a pair, by the fucking games you want, and stop worrying about who is in first or second or how many people decided to buy a particular title in a given month. Because obviously sales are too worrying and stressing for you. I don't see any of you guys worrying that the wiggles have sold like 10,000,000,000 DVDs, so why the fuck are you worrying that people buying wii fit will mean any more than that?
Earthstrike
Member
KeithFranklin said:
Just curious, do you subscribe to the "Wii will stop selling at 20 mil" theory?
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
I think it's easy to see where a lot of costumers are coming from. Nintendo fans obviously couldn't drive Sunshine sales to 64 sales or the sales of any other main Mario game. The GC also had Nintendo's smallest fanbase ever and was relatively irrelevent. It's not hard to make a correlation here. The fringe costumers, the ones who aren't necessarily Nintendo fans, can drive software sales by the millions.KeithFranklin said:
there are a number of things currently on the Wii that would be less fun/precise on 360/PS3. Trauma Center is the quickest example. Cooking Mama is another. Super Monkey Ball translated freaking perfectly to the controller. Obviously it's been done on analog before, but the 1:1 of the Wii controller really benefited that title. I have a feeling most people apathetic towards Metroid will be genuinely surprised when the actually play it.No6 said:
Motion controls are the next evolution. Regardless of what you think of the Wii's games, it's obviously where things have been heading for a long long time. Hell, MS is the only console this gen with no motion controls.
Looking not even a year after the Wii's release is a little shortsighted to be asking this question. Ask it again next fall and I think the list will be quite large. Turn that around on "DS-to-PSP" and you can already list off a few dozen titles that could only be done on the DS without becoming lumbering and tedious without the touchscreen.
so now those games are all the sudden shit because of the Wii? wow, you guys are really desperate.damisa said:
PkunkFury
Member
borghe said:
Super MonkeyBall is a bad example. While it worked just as well as analog, it required re-training, and would have been just as funcitonal if analog controls remained. Kororinpa is, however, an awesome example (and a better game than Monkeyball to boot). MonkeyBall should have allowed for flipping the remote like that in order to fully take advantage of the control change. instead they just ported a game that could easily have been on the cube
bigmakstudios said:
I think you're thinking of this the wrong way. Dual-analog is actually an extremely flexible system that can make pretty much anything work, even if it doesn't work well. The pointer functionality can be replicated by guiding a marker with the stick, and any "toggle" based motions can be replicated to some degree by flicking the right stick around, like in Harry Potter.
However, that doesn't mean that these games could be easily playable or fun. Elebits would be a huge hassle with anything other than a pointer or mouse. The PS2/360 versions of Rayman Raving Rabbids sucked monkey nuts because they didn't have the motions. Part of the appeal of Zack and Wiki is experimenting with the controller using puzzles, which would be a little awkward and not very fun if these actions were placed on the right stick.
Saint Gregory
Member
KeithFranklin said:
I'm sorry but I can't agree with that. Some of the same franchises on the gamecube had some of their lowest sales to date with a larger userbase. SSB:Melee is probably the only traditional Nintendo title from last gen that anyone would describe as doing "great".
You really don't think that there were any new gamers that tried out TP or SPM? Or will try out SMG and MP3? I will agree with your final point though as none of those games will drive Wii sales as there are apparently no Wiis to move in the first place. How can you gage what games are driving sales in that climate?
Jamesfrom818
Banned
damisa said:
Those games were spread out throughout the life of the Gamecube. The Wii got 'em all within a year.
borghe said:
No, just the opposite. Those games were good and on gamecube. They STILL didn't help the gamecube much. In my opinion most of the wii's current sales are directly related to wii sports. If hardcore gamers weren't satisfied with just those titles before, why would they be now? If nintendo fans are really happy with the wii's current software then why all the complaints about 3rd party efforts?
If the question had focused on 360 and Wii I would have agreed but the PS3 screws it up because it reduces the Wii's advantage to mostly the pointer. The Wii has no advantage over the PS3 for SMB. I had forgotten Trauma Center, though. Haven't played Cooking Mama but I thought that was mostly motion, not pointing?borghe said:
Yeah I don't get that comment, but then again I wouldn't have put Godfather or Scarface in your list.
I don't agree. the 1:1 movement of the wiimote compared to the limited travel of the control stick was a significant improvement. when working with analog control practically anytime you give the initial analog control more room to translate with it makes it easier. I mean you could have accomplished the same thing on GCN with a trackball or something... but still, comparing the two directly the Wii control is an advantage is almost every area for SMB.PkunkFury said:
KeithFranklin
Banned
Mudhoney said:
I dont doubt the sales (Well Metroid Prime 3 maybe since 2 didnt sell that well) of the Nintendo big 3. I believe that they will sell great. What I was saying is that they wont necessaily be to the soccer mom who purchased the Wii for her daughter or the family who never had a console before will automically become people that have to have Mario or Smash Brothers. They may be perfectly content with WiiSports and thier party games. Be honest how many people on GAF that have a GCN and a Wii purchased RE4 for both? I bet the percentage is pretty high. So I am not surprised that RE4Wii has done well either. What I am curious about is who purchased it. Was it a gamer already or was it one of the new casuals we here so much about. These people that Nintendo has now brought to the gaming table.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
GCN had Metroid, Mario, Smash, Zelda, 2 Maddens, and 2 Resident Evils within 1.5 years; not much difference.Jamesfrom818 said:
quailtamer
Member
superbank said:Jesus fucking christ. Wii even surpassed DS.
cool keen observation
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
The difference is, the Wii controller was built around the motion sensing. It can essentially simulate a lot of objects. It's not like you could really throw a football or swing a tennis racket with the PS3 controller (I don't even know if it's capable of sensing that sort of thing anyway).No6 said:
Confidence Man
Member
borghe said:
You're a fool if you think there's nothing to that argument. The Wii's lineup is lacking in games that are serious, deep, competitive, narratively-driven, emergent, etc.... Trying to say the Wii is appealing to the core gamer is like trying to say the 360 is appealing to the casual/non gamer crowd.
Most of the complaints come from the fact that you have shining 3rd party gems sitting next to shit. Even the most ardent hater would have an impossible time denying that the wii and wiimote in particular have a ton of potential. when you see a 3rd party publisher put a ton of effort into a game.. whether a new title like Zak and Wiki or even an excellent port like Resident Evil, it puts the cheapcash-in shovelware titles in perspective.damisa said:
"lacking" and "devoid of" are two completely different things. yes the ratio of casual to core-game are much closer on Wii than the other system, but people are outright insisting that there are NO core games on the Wii, NOTHING like you described, and then going on about how that will bring about the downfall of the industry. see the difference?Confidence Man said:
Wii = fad...Don't get me wrong, I actually want to buy one, but people will soon realize that playing games with a remote sensor thingamajig is something thats fun to do in short doses, but not a system that many would want to have as their primary console. Plus, they have nothing to combat the upcoming Halo 3 onslaught!
PkunkFury
Member
borghe said:
but at the same time the analog stick allows for things like recentering or a clear limit to your tilt. With SMB you had to visually ID the point where you tilted to either extreme, as opposed to an analog stick which has a clear limit in both directions that can correspond to the end of the tilt. I enjoyed Banana Blitz, cleared all 10 worlds, and i think i prefer the tilt controls. However, I can easily see why a lot of vet monkey Ballers prefer the stick, and there was no reason for Sega to not provide the option of using either.
Basically, I'm just trying to say Kororinpa is much more designed for the Wii. Turn the controller on its side causes the map to turn sideways so you can roll on the wall. If you haven't played it you should. It's easily one of the top three Wii games
Merovingian
Banned
Ok some of you guys are flipping out honestly, so let me break it down to you guys what it's going to happen, because i think some of you guys aren't really trying to look at how the market will react to this but instead how you guys want/fear it will.
There's this wrong notion that somehow the Wii will steal away all the 3rd party support of the HD consoles. That's not what it's going to happen, what's going to happen is that Publishers will expand, as you see publishers create Wii development focused teams. Publishers are pretty much taking this as a Handhel vs home console market, the DS doesn't steal away games from other consoles, Publishers simply create content for it while they create content for the other ones.
It's called expansion, publishers don't want to stay the same size. What happened last gen was that you couldn't expand your size and resources much, because there were 3 consoles that tried to do the samething, so it wouldn't make sense to flood the market with games that wouldn't sell.
With the Wii / 360 / PS3 market, something changed, it's no longer 3 but 1 + 2, where the one is originally separated because it does not equal to the other two. This effectivily changes the market dynamics for Publishers, make no mistakes, Wii is nothing but good for the industry and it makes me sad to see darkx10 melting down because of a good thing. Now back to the market dynamics, we already see some of the changes, multiplatform development is wide spread on the HD consoles, with 3rd party exclusives here and there and 1st party becoming the main differentiator, and focused development on the Wii with some interesting side effects on the Ps2.
You won't simply start seeing devs shift, that's not how it works, for creative reasons and market demand reasons. What happens here is that this industry is becoming bigger thanks to the Wii, demand for for certain kinds of games has gone up dramatically, and what happens now is that Publishers can create a bigger array of content, and the income will only go up because of it.
There's no "Wii will keep getting crappy 3rd party support" here, nor " Wii is going to steal away 3rd party support from the Hd consoles" or stupid things like "Hd consoles are dead".
That's all hyperbole, because business doesn't work in the way the mind of some forum fanboys work, the market balances out naturally.
So seriously, stop with the doom and gloom, the armageddon is coming kind of talk. It really makes some of you look like fools.
There's this wrong notion that somehow the Wii will steal away all the 3rd party support of the HD consoles. That's not what it's going to happen, what's going to happen is that Publishers will expand, as you see publishers create Wii development focused teams. Publishers are pretty much taking this as a Handhel vs home console market, the DS doesn't steal away games from other consoles, Publishers simply create content for it while they create content for the other ones.
It's called expansion, publishers don't want to stay the same size. What happened last gen was that you couldn't expand your size and resources much, because there were 3 consoles that tried to do the samething, so it wouldn't make sense to flood the market with games that wouldn't sell.
With the Wii / 360 / PS3 market, something changed, it's no longer 3 but 1 + 2, where the one is originally separated because it does not equal to the other two. This effectivily changes the market dynamics for Publishers, make no mistakes, Wii is nothing but good for the industry and it makes me sad to see darkx10 melting down because of a good thing. Now back to the market dynamics, we already see some of the changes, multiplatform development is wide spread on the HD consoles, with 3rd party exclusives here and there and 1st party becoming the main differentiator, and focused development on the Wii with some interesting side effects on the Ps2.
You won't simply start seeing devs shift, that's not how it works, for creative reasons and market demand reasons. What happens here is that this industry is becoming bigger thanks to the Wii, demand for for certain kinds of games has gone up dramatically, and what happens now is that Publishers can create a bigger array of content, and the income will only go up because of it.
There's no "Wii will keep getting crappy 3rd party support" here, nor " Wii is going to steal away 3rd party support from the Hd consoles" or stupid things like "Hd consoles are dead".
That's all hyperbole, because business doesn't work in the way the mind of some forum fanboys work, the market balances out naturally.
So seriously, stop with the doom and gloom, the armageddon is coming kind of talk. It really makes some of you look like fools.
plagiarize
Banned
'next gen' (wii included) is currently tracking behind last gen.Merovingian said:
what makes you think that publishers will be expanding? the market isn't yet.
borghe said:
Isn't that always the case though? PS2 had at least 5 horrid titles for each good one. I never heard anyone complain about it. Most of the complaining seems to be that wii isn't getting the higher profile games that people want.
On the other hand, I do expect the quality of wii software to improve eventually. However, I'm not going to make excuses for the wii's current library. Right now wii is selling mostly off of wii sports and that's it IMO.
GrimReaper
Member
3kuSaS said:
Wow, that's an interesting, refreshing point you're bringing here!
norinrad21
Banned
Profit right of the box on day 1
3kuSaS said:
Keep telling yourself that. Really. 425k in the July is a fad? Halo 3 onslaught? I don't think Nintendo is, in any way, scared of Halo 3. Hell, Nintendo has two games which will probably outsell Halo 3 worldwide coming out this year. Something tells me they don't really care too much.
See, when I see posts like this, I don't really process the words. I just sort of see something like...
Now, I will admit that the Halo part isn't ALWAYS part of such posts, and it did stick out a tad, but the same posts are appearing again and again and again. It feels somewhat akin to someone standing outside an amusement park and shouting (over the fence and at the folks inside) "YOU AREN'T HAVING ANY FUN!" repeatedly, trying to be heard over the screams from the coasters.
Or something like that.
I don't think most of the complaining has to do with high profile games. When PS2 had 5 shit to 1 good it was still getting like 10 good and 50 shit. with wii right now (and any console in it's first year) it's literally like 2 good and 10 shit. and most of the time those 10 shit are third party and the 2 good are nintendo. I fully believe the number (though not ratio) will go up and third parties will step up a bit more in quality.. but that is what I'm seeing right now at least.damisa said:
Forgotten Ancient
Banned
DavidDayton said:
I'd buy!
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
This is everybody's problem though. I mean during the first year of the 360, all you heard was "Xbox 1.5, Perfect Dark lolz, where are the games?" The Wii third party support of course is not that great. But I think the same is true for all systems. Where were the games initially with the 360? Where are they now with the PS3? Coming, of course, but no one's happy with the initial situation. Third parties being caught off guard only compounds the situation. I don't know if it'll ever truly get better, and that comes full circle to whether third parties will actually put more of a focus on the Wii beyond token titles. But Nintendo did what they had to do to get back on top. Whether they are supported or not is up to the third party, and Nintendo has given a great reason why they should be supported.damisa said:
JJConrad said:
Most people, including Sony and Pachter, both who announced it publicly, expected the PS3 to outsell the 360 because it had a price drop -- so it didn't really outperform anyone's expectations. It's utter inability to get ahead in a month where it dropped its price is the death knell, not it's usual poor showing.
I just noticed that no 360 title in the top 20 was released for Wii.
There isn't a level feild to draw a comparison. So there is no basis here to claim that 3rd party games don't sell on the Wii or would do better on the 360. We don't know if these game are selling because of the console they are on or because of the strength of their own brand. (Unless you really think that GH2 and NCAA Football wouldn't have also ranked if they were on Wii... but that debate will just be a dogpile.) We can't that the 3rd parties are better off on the 360 when the games we use to show that the Wii is struggling also struggle on the 360. We're going to have to wait until future sequals to those game are released on both systems ... don't worry 3 of the 4 most certainly will be on both next year but the 4th may never get one.
There isn't a level feild to draw a comparison. So there is no basis here to claim that 3rd party games don't sell on the Wii or would do better on the 360. We don't know if these game are selling because of the console they are on or because of the strength of their own brand. (Unless you really think that GH2 and NCAA Football wouldn't have also ranked if they were on Wii... but that debate will just be a dogpile.) We can't that the 3rd parties are better off on the 360 when the games we use to show that the Wii is struggling also struggle on the 360. We're going to have to wait until future sequals to those game are released on both systems ... don't worry 3 of the 4 most certainly will be on both next year but the 4th may never get one.
If Wii continues to sell this many units per month until Christmas time what happens when they only sell 400-500k for December in the US? Are they tucking away extra units right now in preperation for the Christmas rush? If not people are gonna be pretty angry when they come up empty handed for a second season in a row.
norinrad21
Banned
3kuSaS said:
Merovingian
Banned
plagiarize said:
Because of price point? Which effectively affected the lenght of this Gen, with that i mean, this gen will be longer...and with the Wii being the success it is, we will definitily start tracking ahead of last gen between this fall and 08 fall.
No doubt. This gen will have a bigger market compared to last gen. It just started from a higher price point.
Guys, guys, we all know why Wii came in #1 in July.
It's obvious isn't it? Nintendo THEMSELVES are buying most the Wiis off the market. And when retailers need to restock, Nintendo sells back what they've bought from the retailers themselves. Genius!
Of course, they're riding on DS sales to offset the losses incurred by the buy-and-sell scheme.
Oh Nintendo, you pulled a fast one on us! But not me, nope; I'm the only one who knew about this scheme. We all know Wii is a fad and the PSTriple and X360 will ultimately come out on top.
It's obvious isn't it? Nintendo THEMSELVES are buying most the Wiis off the market. And when retailers need to restock, Nintendo sells back what they've bought from the retailers themselves. Genius!
Of course, they're riding on DS sales to offset the losses incurred by the buy-and-sell scheme.
Oh Nintendo, you pulled a fast one on us! But not me, nope; I'm the only one who knew about this scheme. We all know Wii is a fad and the PSTriple and X360 will ultimately come out on top.