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[markatisu]

GTA CW will be fine, people who think DS games live and die in 30 days are out of their fucking minds as there is absolutely no proof of that going back 2 years.

 

[Omar Ismail]

You have way more programmers on a team than you do the people making higher salaries-- in this particular case, the quoted average for employees with less than 3 years experience (Guerrilla hired rapidly for KZ2) is 42k. Programmers and QA are probably the big part of the team, and testers average 26k.

I don't think you read the article...

PROGRAMMING
Average salary for three or fewer years experience: $65,833 or $57,913 (see explanation in text)
Average salary Across all experience levels: $80,886

Considering the technical expertise demonstrated in KZ2 you'd be hard pressed to argue it was made predominantly of "junior" programmers. And even if it was 100% junior programmers (which is absurd) you're still at $60K * 1.5 = $90K.

 

[DCharlie]

I don't really see anyone in those quotes saying KZ2 will push hardware, just that it'll crush the software competition.

no one thought KZ2 would push hardware? really?

out of interest, as i missed it in my absence, at what point did GAF sony fans think that it was over in terms of games pushing the platform sales up? I'm surprised that the PS3 poster game wasn't in the mind space of "system pusher"

 

[Y2Kev]

Yeah, my mistake, I was looking at art and animation.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Considering the technical expertise demonstrated in KZ2 you'd be hard pressed to argue it was made predominantly of "junior" programmers. And even if it was 100% junior programmers (which is absurd) you're still at $60K * 1.5 = $90K.

Game programmers earn less than the average because "games are cool". It throws a whole different supply and demand situation into that segment of the software development career.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I'll be honest, I was expecting more for Chinatown Wars. I thought the GTA name and size of the DS userbase would make it at least 100k. :\

 

[Suburban Cowboy]

so why does Mario Kart remain so strong yet Animal Crossing does not? AC seems to be more in line with Nintendo's new demographic than an action racing game

 

[jrricky]

Just got in, here are my thoughts:

Disappointing Killzone numbers
Amazing RE5 numbers
Disappointing Madworld numbers
Disappointing GTA numbers
Amazing HW numbers
Amazing Pokemon numbers

PS3 HW = Meh
Wii HW = Still going strong
360 HW = Holding out perfectly
DS HW = Amazing
PSP HW = Meh

Intitial thoughts on the future:
-Hope GTA and Madworld make it passed expectations.
-GTA sales put a bind on Publishers (Should I make an M game for the DS that has a huge base and has a high chance of making a profit or should I put it on a system that rarely ever lights up the charts with software and a thriving fanbase?)
-Bionic Commando and Dark Void will never do or get close to SF4 or RE5's numbers.
-Not quite sure if Killzone will ever hit 2 million LTD US in its lifetime.

 

[Barrett2]

89K for Chinatown is bad for such a big name franchise with that ungodly userbase. wow... Even with long legs, thats a very bad start.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

GTA games sell consistently over months. I think CTW worldwide will have meet expectations by the end of the year.

 

[DiddyBop]

surprising numbers,you can really see the effects of the recession in the HW numbers

 

[schuelma]

so why does Mario Kart remain so strong yet Animal Crossing does not? AC seems to be more in line with Nintendo's new demographic than an action racing game

I guess you answered your own question

 

[Eteric Rice]

Hopefully GTA:CW and MadWorld have legs that third party games typically have on the Wii and DS. I think these games deserve to sell a lot more.

 

[Nirolak]

so why does Mario Kart remain so strong yet Animal Crossing does not? AC seems to be more in line with Nintendo's new demographic than an action racing game

I'd say Mario Kart actually has a broader appeal. There are a lot of people who would feel very embarrassed to be playing Animal Crossing but would be fine with playing Mario Kart.

 

[lowrider007]

If K2 had launched March 1st and sold 619k in March NPD would it still be a flop because everyone is acting like it had 2 full months.

This tbh.

 

[Stop It]

This was the third GTA to hit a Nintendo system in ten years. I'm pretty sure the other two bombed as well. There's really no base for it on these things.

Well, I can't argue with that, and I'm part of the problem if I'm honest *looks at copy of Vice City stores on PSP*

 

[witness]

Ugh terribly sad to hear about the 70k sales figure for Mad World and less than 90k for Chinatown Wars.....WTF. I really hope they have legs but will retailers give them the time to do so? So I guess unless its nintendo branded or resident evil, core games have no chance on nintendo consoles anymore.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Bad month for Sony. At what point is Sony going to atleast pretend to meet consumers halfway. A $299 relaunch with Killzone2 and a massive media blitz could have done wonders for the system and it's image. Could have been a huge domino effect. At what point does Sony management realize that asking people to pay hundreds more of video game system to subsidize other divisions and massive 1st party development isnt going to fly in a competitive market. It's a vicious cycle.

heres the insanity: Sony spends hundred of millions on game development for games that arent selling because, nobody can afford the system because, They can't lower the price because, of the massive development costs they spend on.

Something is severely broken with Sony upper management. Sorry I had to vent.

Look, even if KZ2 cost like $50 Million, that would be a drop in the bucket... compared to a $100 price cut per PS3 sold worldwide... very very different territories.

500,000 consoles (say worldwide) * $100 = $50,000,000 of profit loss per month... and about $600,000,000 a year of profit loss... and the more consoles you sell the more you lose. When Sony will be able to afford it (HW manufacturing costs under control and budget allocated internally at Sony corp. for the move) they will drop the price. They would want to drop the price now, but evidently they cannot afford it.

We are not even in the same ballpark .

 

[Barrett2]

I'd say Mario Kart actually has a broader appeal. There are a lot of people who would feel very embarrassed to be playing Animal Crossing but would be fine with playing Mario Kart.

Nintendo still advertises Mario Kart. I don't think they do for AC

 

[legend166]

Conduit will be lucky to reach 150k first month. donny is nuts.


Look, it's just pretty clear what Opiate is saying is right. The 15-35 male, 'violence' demographic isn't on the Wii. At all.


And it doesn't bother me. Hopefully we get more games like Little King's Story, Boom Blox and de Blob than Madworld and The Conduit.

Seriously, I'll never understand the Nintendo fan desperate for 'mature', violent games. Makes no sense. Go buy a 360 and be happy.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Bad month for Sony. At what point is Sony going to atleast pretend to meet consumers halfway. A $299 relaunch with Killzone2 and a massive media blitz could have done wonders for the system and it's image. Could have been a huge domino effect. At what point does Sony management realize that asking people to pay hundreds more of video game system to subsidize other divisions and massive 1st party development isnt going to fly in a competitive market. It's a vicious cycle.

heres the insanity: Sony spends hundred of millions on game development for games that arent selling because, nobody can afford the system because, They can't lower the price because, of the massive development costs they spend on.

Something is severely broken with Sony upper management. Sorry I had to vent.

Why do you want Sony to fail? They ARE meeting the consumers halfway. You're just failing to understand what a position they are in.

Sony CANNOT AFFORD TO DROP THE PRICE OF THE PLAYSTATION 3. A $299 PS3 IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN 2009 BECAUSE SCE/SCEA/SCEE CANNOT AFFORD TO TAKE ANOTHER LOSS LEADER HIT. Revenue from the PS2 is in freefall and the PSP isn't doing much better.

Where do you propose that they find the money to provide another price drop? To what end? The losses they've taken on the PS3 have already eclipsed the profits of both the PS1 and the PS2. To drop the price in order to increase market share will result in losses that simply won't be made back from the extra sales of PS3 software and simply dig them deeper into the hole they are currently in. Sure they'll 'win' against the 360, but to do so would run counter to 1) their overall strategy and 2) the company's whole reason for being.

 

[shintoki]

This maybe sound a bit trollish, So sorry in advance. Since it seems like Chinatown wars didn't performance as well as they hoped. Kinda wondering how well the game can be adapted to different platforms about the touch aspects. Specifically the Steam, XBLA, and PSN platforms. Where games that didn't perform as well on handheld maybe able to find a second market.

Other then that, I think Chinatown Wars is going to have legs anyways. DS games are like that.

 

[Omar Ismail]

Game programmers earn less than the average because "games are cool". It throws a whole different supply and demand situation into that segment of the software development career.

The averages I'm quoting are for programmers IN THE GAME INDUSTRY.

I'm fully aware that game developers make less than "regular" programmers. I was offered a job at a game dev company.

Regular programmers at places like Microsoft/Google/Amazon/etc will make 70K + options as a starting salary, with the average coming in over $120K easy.

 

[Nirolak]

Nintendo still advertises Mario Kart. I don't think they do for AC

That probably plays a large part in it too. Plus the really popular Wii game probably has a great synergy with the DS title's sales.

 

[AColdDay]

Awful numbers for GTA:CW means no GTA for Wii for sure.

Ever since I played the GTA clone Godfather on Wii, I've been itching for another game in that vein.

Madworld numbers are to be expected. I guess that means that I should lower my estimates for Conduit. It's a shame.

 

[careful]

wtf @ Killzone
That's fucking terrible for a flagship console FPS..
Sony marketing fails incredibly hard. I see a lot of ads, but they're all pretty forgettable.

 

[v1cious]

GTA CW will be fine, people who think DS games live and die in 30 days are out of their fucking minds as there is absolutely no proof of that going back 2 years.

sub 100,000? sorry but that argument's not working this time. the style turned people off, pure and simple.

the real story here however, is Madworld selling below 100,000. no one can deny what's going on any more. expect more party games on the family fun console.

 

[Mamesj]

Wow, somehow missed this.....

Hopefully the success of RE5 will mean another in the same general style, and not the entire series reboot that has been reported for RE6.

The game doesn't need a reboot. it's fucking fun! that's all that matters. That was just Jun Takeuchi getting the jitters because of the vocal "bring back teh original survival horror" and "why can't we move and shoot" crowds before launch.

 

[Hellsing321]

I'm not that surprised at GTA. I don't think there are very many people who want to play a top down(I know it's not exactly) GTA game anymore.

Madworld is a shame.

 

[Barrett2]

sub 100,000? sorry but that argument's not working this time. the style turned people off, pure and simple.

the real story here however, is Madworld selling below 100,000. no one can deny what's going on any more.

I can only imagine what a disaster Conduit will be... especially if the shovelware box art I saw floating around is the real thing.

 

[Mamesj]

so why does Mario Kart remain so strong yet Animal Crossing does not? AC seems to be more in line with Nintendo's new demographic than an action racing game

you must not understand the demographic at all then. Animal Crossing is slow, quirky, and not instantaneously rewarding. You can pick up and play Mario Kart with other people and have a blast as soon as you boot the thing up.

 

[Zombie James]

wtf @ Killzone
That's fucking terrible for a flagship console FPS..
Sony marketing fails incredibly hard. I see a lot of ads, but they're all pretty forgettable.

It sold over 600K in a month + 1 week. How is that "fucking terrible"?

 

[Kifimbo]

To put GTA: CW sales in perspective, Carnival Games sales in January 2008, several months after it was launch, were around 80k. For that month alone. I know it was a Wii game, not a DS game, but if you are 2K, what type of game are you gonna create in the future for Nintendo's consoles ?

 

[Nirolak]

I can only imagine what a disaster Conduit will be... especially if the shovelware box art I saw floating around is the real thing.

We got that box art off Amazon. :/

Unfortunately that means it's quite real unless they change their minds.

 

[LM4sure]

Not only that, but it's like these people think the world is a place where brand loyalty is first and foremost. PSOne gamers are also, for the most part, of the age now where they probably don't even play games anymore, so any legacy it has on a console THAT old is completely irrelevant, anyway.

:lol Are you serious?!? "For the most part" PS1 gamers "don't play games anymore." OMG, that is the weakest argument I've seen on this forum in a while? That statement is RIDICULOUS!!! I started playing games on the NES and I STILL play games. But you're staying people younger than me that started playing the games on the PS1 are too old to play games?! C'mon, get real! :lol

 

[Nameless]

You guys are legitimately shocked that the GTA CW didn't sell well on the Nintendo DS!? Really, GAF? Honestly, the only people I even "know of" who play GTA and own a DS are from gaming sites & podcast :lol I've never seen the two co-exist in the wild. I venture to bet most of you haven't either.

 

[iceatcs]

WTF, Chinatown Wars. Damn I'm going to Soho, and making a war in Chinatown. Maybe it will help.

 

[markatisu]

sub 100,000? sorry but that argument's not working this time. the style turned people off, pure and simple.

We will see, I have learned with the DS and Wii to judge something in 30 days is expecting to have your ass handed to you later.

the real story here however, is Madworld selling below 100,000. no one can deny what's going on any more. expect more party games on the family fun console.

Because the party games are lighting up the charts? The mini game/party game ship sailed as soon as the market became super saturated with it

 

[Y2Kev]

I can only imagine what a disaster Conduit will be... especially if the shovelware box art I saw floating around is the real thing.

The art in the game is awful. No one is going to be impulse purchasing that thing for sure.

Madworld had an insert in the game box, but...yeah

 

[Aaron Strife]

WTF @ Chinatown Wars

WTF @ MadWorld

Seriously WTF Wii/DS owners?

I just hope these games have strong legs like Boom Blox and De Blob because this is fucking horrible.

If you stupid assholes don't buy Punch-Out I'll punch your faces out.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

:lol Are you serious?!? "For the most part" PS1 gamers "don't play games anymore." OMG, that is the weakest argument I've seen on this forum in a while? That statement is RIDICULOUS!!! I started playing games on the NES and I STILL play games. But you're staying people younger than me that started playing the games on the PS1 are too old to play games?! C'mon, get real! :lol

You're on GAF. You're not a normal human being. You're not most PS1 gamers.

 

[LM4sure]

sub 100,000? sorry but that argument's not working this time. the style turned people off, pure and simple.

the real story here however, is Madworld selling below 100,000. no one can deny what's going on any more. expect more party games on the family fun console.

No, the argument still works. The game will continue to sell for a looooong time because of the name on the package. It is/will be a success. I love your rationale. "The style turned people off." LOL, where the hell did you get that ?! The style turned YOU off, maybe. Not people!

 

[schuelma]

Look, it's just pretty clear what Opiate is saying is right. The 15-35 male, 'violence' demographic isn't on the Wii. At all.

.

I don't think its that easy- we do have a few successful "violent" efforts. RE4, RE:UC, CoD:WaW. In its own way NMH was a success. I do think think there is a market...but its harder to hit than the other systems.

I agree MadWorld sales are disappointing, but I don't think it had nearly the potential most here think. Being completely honest, how many more copies would a 5 hour single player full priced beat em up sell on 360? More than 65K..probably..but much more than a 100K? I'm pretty skeptical.

 

[iceatcs]

If you stupid assholes don't buy Punch-Out I'll punch your faces out.

I think it will be much better than two. Since sport seem very popular for Wii.

 

[ivysaur12]

MadWorld < 70,000

Ouch... that's pretty bad.

 

[DMeisterJ]

You guys are legitimately shocked that the GTA CW didn't sell well on the Nintendo DS!? Really, GAF? Honestly, the only people I even "know of" who play GTA and own a DS are from gaming sites & podcast :lol I've never seen the two co-exist in the wild. I venture to bet most of you haven't either.

GTA has always been about 2 things.

Big openings + Long Legs = $$$$

This one does not have a big opening. Now R* has to hope and pray that it has long legs, luckily DS games have legs. But the very small opening (smaller than the PSPs non-software selling self) is slightly disturbing, nonetheless.

 

[LM4sure]

You're on GAF. You're not a normal human being. You're not most PS1 gamers.

Nah, I don't buy it. I know a lot of "normal" human beings. And a lot of those people still play video games. Granted, most of them are playing the Wii nowadays, but playing games at or around the age of 25 is completely normal.

 

[v1cious]

Because the party games are lighting up the charts? The mini game/party game ship sailed as soon as the market became super saturated with it

yeah well i hope you enjoy them, cause you'll be seeing them for awhile.

 

[carlnunz]

it would be nice to see how HOTD faired in its second month - might give us an idea about what we can expect for madworld

 

[Barrett2]

People claiming GTA:CW will have legs might be committing a fallacy. Wii / DS games have legs because they are family or party games that don't rely on normal gaming marketing cycles. They sell to a very casual audience unconcerned or unaware of when a game launches. GTA, I would think, doesn't sell to these people, and instead sells to traditional, marketing & hype driven gamers. Seems safe to assume it is basically a disappointment, if not a complete flop.