Support NeoGAF

[szaromir]

Because the Eyetoy was ahead of its time.

Suvh trolling isn't funny anymore.

Usually a new platform gets a second wave of games around March/April (GRAW/Oblivion in 360's case). Does anyone know what's planned for Kinect?

 

[plagiarize]

Because the Eyetoy was ahead of its time.

are you suggesting then the Kinect isn't new and exciting?

but then how can it meet your definition of 'honeymoon period'?

i am very confused.

 

[Alx]

Usually a new platform gets a second wave of games around March/April (GRAW/Oblivion in 360's case). Does anyone know what's planned for Kinect?

Brain Training and Child of Eden should release in this timeframe, IIRC.
*edit : and according to http://123kinect.com/kinect-games/ , there is also the Michael Jackson game, the THQ fantasy pet game, and a few others I know nothing about.

 

[Vinci]

nobody is claiming wii levels though.

People are claiming it's the new Wii, and all I'm saying is that it's not if it isn't able to sustain its sales over time. Which requires remarkably potent software. I don't see Kinect getting a great deal of that, though perhaps it will. I don't know.

Jan through Apr in a consoles first year have no real bearing on anything.

Tracking its sales doesn't simply mean the hardware itself, it's about tracking its software also. And yes, based on the combination of the two, I think we can determine how Kinect is trending.

 

[PistolGrip]

PS3 needs a redesign because it went from the best looking to the worst looking device. Also as someone stated them removing features doesn't do it no favors o....I cringe everytime I see my nice black shiny BC ps3 sitting in the corner broken.

Yeah the problem with SONY is money. A redesign and price cut would mean a major investment. In 2011 with the launch of the PSP its going to be hard for them.

If I were SONY, I would show a redesign in the summer preferably at E3 along with the PSP2. They win E3 by default (if that means anything). Then have 299 Move along with 299 Uncharted 3 + Blu-Rays bundle from black Friday and beyond. Retailers would of course have sales on original PS3s to $249 forcing folks towards the bundles...

A Move bundle with Socom 4 for $299 would do wonders as well.

 

[frontieruk]

Its definitely cool though I think its impressive especially to casuals. Im sure MS is losing money on this thing because it seems like it should cost more.

the tear down says they're printing money on unit price (BOM is ~$56), R&D and Advertising could be a different matter though.

 

[fernoca]

Is still funny.
Pre-Kinect launch: "lol this thing is going to fail $150 wtfomg?! look at that lag fail!"

After-Kinect launch: "the thing is selling because of the $500 trillion marketing and holiday rush, wait for it it's going to bomb and stores will be flooded with returns "

As others said, some are not happy with the Kinect selling, not because of the lack of software variety, or the original promises; but because: 1. It's from Microsoft, 2. Is for the Xbox 360 and 3. It's getting more hype and sale than the PS Move.

So, they seem to be moving the "goals" of it, from "is not going to sell" to "is not going to sell in the long run". Pretty much like the "Wait for PS3... board-picture".

EyeToy was already brought for comparison, so we need YouTube dancing comparisons too and it will be the Kinect OT. Who said you actually need to own a Kinect to post in the OT? ;p

 

[Zoe]

are you suggesting then the Kinect isn't new and exciting?

but then how can it meet your definition of 'honeymoon period'?

i am very confused.

Well you asked compared to competing things. Eyetoy is a competitor that serves a similar role, but Kinect is seen as new and exciting because Eyetoy came out without any fanfare and its existence wasn't widely known (in the US).

Let's start over.

Is it new? Yes, it came out just about a month ago. Because it's the holidays, many people probably haven't even received it yet.
Is it exciting? Yes, it offers experiences that haven't been on the 360 before.

New + Exciting = Honeymoon

The honeymoon will end once it's no longer new (game releases have slowed down and holiday presents have been handed out). For MS's sake, hopefully it will never stop being exciting.

My original post had nothing to do with sales--it was in reply to all of the posts regarding impressions. I feel that impressions need to be taken with a grain of salt when something is in the honeymoon period. This goes for ALL things in life, not just products.

 

[szaromir]

People are claiming it's the new Wii, and all I'm saying is that it's not if it isn't able to sustain its sales over time. Which requires remarkably potent software. I don't see Kinect getting a great deal of that, though perhaps it will. I don't know.

And what was that potent software that Wii was getting? It was riding for a loooong time on Wii Sports' appeal, the same could be for Kinecct launch line-up. Although the general idea of waggle-based party games was much fresher at the time, so Kinect won't be able to repeat Wii's success just with that.

 

[szaromir]

My original post had nothing to do with sales--it was in reply to all of the posts regarding impressions. I feel that impressions need to be taken with a grain of salt when something is in the honeymoon period. This goes for ALL things in life, not just products.

There's nothing "honeymoon" about it, the games are mostly collections of minigames and they either work or they don't, simple as that.
Kinect is a a substantial evolution of Eyetoy which provided shoddy silouhette recognition, whereas Kinect has decent skeletal tracking.

 

[Psychotext]

Also, not to be a downer here, but who has said the Kinect is selling because it's good? Anyone?

Everyone I know personally that's bought it (including me now) has bought it because they played it and thought it was good / had a lot of fun with it.

Does that count?

 

[Zoe]

There's nothing "honeymoon" about it, the games are mostly collections of minigames and they either work or they don't, simple as that.
Kinect is a a substantial evolution of Eyetoy which provided shoddy silouhette recognition, whereas Kinect has decent skeletal tracking.

It has nothing to do with what kind of software it is. Will it still be as fun one month from now as it is today? For some people, that won't be the case.

 

[evangd007]

And what was that potent software that Wii was getting? It was riding for a loooong time on Wii Sports' appeal, the same could be for Kinecct launch line-up. Although the general idea of waggle-based party games was much fresher at the time, so Kinect won't be able to repeat Wii's success just with that.

Yes, it rode on Wii Sports... then Wii Play, then Wii Fit, then Mario Kart Wii, then New Super Mario Bros Wii...

 

[fernoca]

It has nothing to do with what kind of software it is. Will it still be as fun one month from now as it is today? For some people, that won't be the case.

That applies to everything, and I don't see you saying the same thing for the Move controllers, or all the games in the Top 10 of the November's NPD.

 

[szaromir]

It has nothing to do with what kind of software it is. Will it still be as fun one month from now as it is today? For some people, that won't be the case.

Wasn't Wii supposed to be a fad in the same way? And of course waggling gets boring rather quickly, new software has to come to satisfy old owners and draw new ones.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Yep, you're right. A flurry. I mean, just look at them all

Amazon customer reviews would be a good place to read up on this kind of thing if opinion is based on fanboy message board biased or real life people.

Things sell enormously well over time based on software, not on hardware. The Wii had some of the best-selling games of all time coming out in its first 18 months. Does Kinect? I have no idea, maybe. If it does, that's awesome - it'll be fun to watch.

Well, considering that the number one selling game for it is a third party exclusive built from the ground up for the system, it's looking good on the software front right from the gate. What was the best selling title for the Wii at launch? A GameCube game with tacked on Wii controls? Time will tell what happens with software but so far, the first party and third party exclusive support is pretty good.

 

[Zoe]

That applies to everything, and I don't see you saying the same thing for the Move controllers, or all the games in the Top 10 of the November's NPD.

Kinect impressions was the topic of conversation, not Move nor the Top 10.

Wasn't Wii supposed to be a fad in the same way? And of course waggling gets boring rather quickly, new software has to come to satisfy old owners and draw new ones.

That's why it's important to see if impressions remain the same after the initial experience has dried up.

 

[szaromir]

Yes, it rode on Wii Sports... then Wii Play, then Wii Fit, then Mario Kart Wii, then New Super Mario Bros Wii...

Wii Play was a Wiimote with attached shovelware. That minigame collection was just bad, yet people didn't mind because it was only extra $10. Mario Kart Wii came in April 08, 17 months after Wii's launch, the rest even later.

 

[Cornbread78]

Also, the dismissal of Kinect's success with "well that's just what $500M of marketing will buy you" is naive.

First, you can't sell a crappy product no matter how much money you put behind it. If it sucks, it will fail, and quickly. You might get good sales for a very short time, but word of mouth will spread and it will be DOA pretty soon. Kinect is not crappy and word of mouth has been overwhelmingly positive.

Second, why spend so much money on a crappy product? This marketing effort shows how much confidence MS has in the product. Ask anyone in marketing. You do not gamble this big if you don't sincerely believe you have a hit. Conversely, if you have doubts about a product's chances for success, you're not going to spend millions of dollars on it. I think it's quite telling that the advertising for Move is more "modest" compared to Kinect. It echoes what the management thinks.

Finally, it sounds like whoever uses this "argument" is just bitter. "No fair! Of course you'll be successful if you heavily market your product and spend gobs of cash! Anyone can do that. Try getting it to sell so well without spending that much money.. yeah now *that's* a challenge!" ... wait what?

Blair Witch Project


'nuff said....

 

[charlequin]

The Wii had some of the best-selling games of all time coming out in its first 18 months. Does Kinect?

No, but then, we're not actually talking about Kinect being a success on the level of the Wii here, but rather, a success as part of a late-gen accessory/relaunch strategy designed to invigorate sales of an existing platform. Inasmuch as anyone has been saying "the new Wii" in this thread it's in the context of "the new product that appeals to the type of expanded-market demographic which made the Wii successful" and not "the new product which surpasses all expectations and comes to forcefully dominate the market with shockingly huge sales."

So why is it wrong to say "Kinect's got lots of buzz right now - let's wait and see if it can sustain that buzz after it is older with software"?

Yes, certainly people were allowed to make that argument. Yes, it was certainly always a possibility that the system would flop even after its initial success -- but it was never a particularly likely possibility, especially since it relied on the Wii actively bucking historical trends and acting like an entirely different type of product. It also heavily relied on an inherent value judgment (this system will fail soon because everyone will realize it's super-shitty!!!) and it was consistently connected to a long series of moving goalposts -- the Wii will fail! Well, the Wii will launch well, but it'll tail off in January! Well, the Wii actually is still doing well, but it'll fail by next year! etc. etc. With all these factors playing in, "Wii is a fad" was always a disingenuous argument -- it relied on discounting of conditions on the ground (the system actually selling well, the system actually receiving great word of mouth from people who bought it, etc.) while playing up speculative future conditions (there won't be another hit software release, there won't be good WoM once people spend more time with it, etc.)

Essentially, either argument ("it will succeed"/"it won't succeed") was legitimate before the product in question (Wii or Kinect) came out. Once it did, and it was verified to be selling successfully, the ground changes. You can't just keep arguing "well, it still won't keep being a success" because the previous argument you're building on turned out to be nonsense. Arguing for future failure now is not championing one of two equally likely prognostications -- it's arguing for a notably significant change in conditions, which is a stance that both requires rather more evidence behind it and can only be made legitimately from a full, unwavering acknowledgement of the actual situation that pertains in the present.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

People are claiming it's the new Wii, and all I'm saying is that it's not if it isn't able to sustain its sales over time. Which requires r

Where are these people?

They might wanna remember that Kinect is a peripheral late in the systems life.

 

[fernoca]

Kinect impressions was the topic of conversation, not Move nor the Top 10.

I'm just using your logic. ;p
Nearly everything has a "honeymoon period". Many people are going to stop using/playing things/games a month after they got them. That doesn't mean anything in the long term.

Kinect is no exception here. Of course some are going to get it, jump around in Adventures and then never touch it again. That's no indication or confirmation that the thing is just moving or selling based on hype.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

So it's a fad until it appeals to you?

:lol

Yeah, that one actually literally made my head spin around.

Need...medical attention.

 

[kame-sennin]

You... do realize that this is just the ca. 2007 "Wii is a fad" argument dressed up in nice clothes, right?

I don't think so. The people who claimed Wii would be a success (excluding fanboys) after its strong launch sales did so because the available data matched a pre-determined hypothesis. That hypothesis, as stated by Iwata, was that there was a segment of the market that wanted to consume video games, but could not because the games/controls were too complex. Further, these noncustomers were overshot by the graphics capabilities of the Xbox 360 and PS3. Therefore, a console with accessible games and controls would appeal to new customers, even if its graphics were inferior to the competition - because said console would not be directly competing for the same audience. This hypothesis contradicted the conventional wisdom that better graphics and more intense gameplay was what the market wanted, and there was no constrained demand.

As soon as the Wii started selling, conventional wisdom was contradicted. All available data supported Iwata and Nintendo's hypothesis. It wasn't just that the Wii sold well, but that it sold to the predicted audience. And as time passed, it was unaffected by conventional competitor response. It proved that it was breaking into a new market. Calling Wii a fad at that point meant that you believed Nintendo's hypothesis was wrong in spite of all the data that supported it. The problem was that the people who thought Wii was a fad had no alternative model to explain away the Wii's success, let alone actual data to support their opinions. They were judging the success of a new market product by the standards used in the established market - standards that had already been contradicted by established sales.

That is not the case with Kinect. Kinect is not breaking into a new market, it is attempting to gain share into the Wii market. Nintendo has already established that these customers exist, so Kinect's success doesn't confirm anything we didn't already know. When assessing the potential of Kinect, we have to do so by conventional means because it is engaging in a conventional competitive battle with the Wii. I'm not saying that Kinect's sales will taper off. In fact, competing in such a new and large market holds a lot of potential for success. I just want to point out that products that attempt to break into a new market should be measured differently than products that compete head-on in an established market. Microsoft is very good at a head-on competition, so it will be interesting to see how things pan out.

Things sell enormously well over time based on software, not on hardware. The Wii had some of the best-selling games of all time coming out in its first 18 months.

This is the most relevant point. I have never been bearish (or bullish) on Kinect because I haven't played any of the games. I'd like to know what are the best pieces of software out for the system so far and what the strengths of those games are.

 

[Vinci]

Well, considering that the number one selling game for it is a third party exclusive built from the ground up for the system, it's looking good on the software front right from the gate. What was the best selling title for the Wii at launch? A GameCube game with tacked on Wii controls? Time will tell what happens with software but so far, the first party and third party exclusive support is pretty good.

Actually, at least a couple of 3rd party games sold well at the Wii's launch - Rayman and Red Steel. Yes, Zelda outsold them, but... is that surprising?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Yes, certainly people were allowed to make that argument. Yes, it was certainly always a possibility that the system would flop even after its initial success -- but it was never a particularly likely possibility, especially since it relied on the Wii actively bucking historical trends and acting like an entirely different type of product. It also heavily relied on an inherent value judgment (this system will fail soon because everyone will realize it's super-shitty!!!) and it was consistently connected to a long series of moving goalposts -- the Wii will fail! Well, the Wii will launch well, but it'll tail off in January! Well, the Wii actually is still doing well, but it'll fail by next year! etc. etc. With all these factors playing in, "Wii is a fad" was always a disingenuous argument -- it relied on discounting of conditions on the ground (the system actually selling well, the system actually receiving great word of mouth from people who bought it, etc.) while playing up speculative future conditions (there won't be another hit software release, there won't be good WoM once people spend more time with it, etc.)

Essentially, either argument ("it will succeed"/"it won't succeed") was legitimate before the product in question (Wii or Kinect) came out. Once it did, and it was verified to be selling successfully, the ground changes. You can't just keep arguing "well, it still won't keep being a success" because the previous argument you're building on turned out to be nonsense. Arguing for future failure now is not championing one of two equally likely prognostications -- it's arguing for a notably significant change in conditions, which is a stance that both requires rather more evidence behind it and can only be made legitimately from a full, unwavering acknowledgement of the actual situation that pertains in the present.

Just wanted to point out this is an incredibly well elocuted and cogent argument.

 

[PistolGrip]

Is still funny.
Pre-Kinect launch: "lol this thing is going to fail $150 wtfomg?! look at that lag fail!"

After-Kinect launch: "the thing is selling because of the $500 trillion marketing and holiday rush, wait for it it's going to bomb and stores will be flooded with returns "

As others said, some are not happy with the Kinect selling, not because of the lack of software variety, or the original promises; but because: 1. It's from Microsoft, 2. Is for the Xbox 360 and 3. It's getting more hype and sale than the PS Move.

I agree that many people dont like Kinect because of those 3 things you listed. However the idea that marketing cant sell something thats garbage is false. Marketing is the number one thing that sells a product. Any product you spent 1/2 a billion dollars to market will have good sales and thats exactly what Gaffers were saying. Flooded with returns is something I have never heard anyone say but I am sure someone said or hinted at it.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I agree that many people dont like Kinect because of those 3 things you listed. However the idea that marketing cant sell something thats garbage is false. Marketing is the number one thing that sells a product. Any product you spent 1/2 a billion dollars to market will have good sales and thats exactly what Gaffers were saying. Flooded with returns is something I have never heard anyone say but I am sure someone said or hinted at it.

It's been out for a month. In this day and age of omnipresent and immediate feedback, if it wasn't a satisfying consumer product, the backlash would have been immense and instantaneous. It would have probably actually made headlines. What's selling Kinects now is not just the marketing. It's the fact that it works and people are enjoying it.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Blair Witch Project


'nuff said....

So all new business ventures should be held to a "Blair Witch Project" level of return on investment?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

So all new business ventures should be held to a "Blair Witch Project" level of return on investment?

I thought his argument there was that the movie was all hype and marketing with no good movie there.

And I was like "But the end and the dude in the corner I mean YYYYIIIIIKKKKEEEESSSS RIGHT???"

 

[szaromir]

I don't think so. The people who claimed Wii would be a success (excluding fanboys) after its strong launch sales did so because the available data matched a pre-determined hypothesis. That hypothesis, as stated by Iwata, was that there was a segment of the market that wanted to consume video games, but could not because the games/controls were too complex. Further, these noncustomers were overshot by the graphics capabilities of the Xbox 360 and PS3. Therefore, a console with accessible games and controls would appeal to new customers, even if its graphics were inferior to the competition - because said console would not be directly competing for the same audience. This hypothesis contradicted the conventional wisdom that better graphics and more intense gameplay was what the market wanted, and there was no constrained demand.

I don't see how this condradicts that Wii could have become a fad - ie. a shortlived temporary craze, before gevenral audience moves on to something else. I actually thought that Wii would not be a fad as soon as it was proven successful (reinforced by Wii Fit announcement at E3 07).
I do have my doubts around Kinect, though. I don't see any equivalent of Wii Fit anytime soon and as you said time is definitely against Kinect as there already is an established competitor in the motion gaming market. MS might have something unannounced yet, surely they didn't introduce Kinect only to let it die.

 

[2real4tv]

So it's a fad until it appeals to you?

As for the PS3: Sony has done everything in its power to make that system successful. Doing anything dramatic any further would just be a waste of money they can't really afford to spend. Continue bringing games out, make what money they can on the thing, but no, they should not do anything really expensive at this point to try and change the layout of this generation.

They just need to make money.

PS3 is suffering in the US because of its horrible marketing and poor decisions, the system itself is good.

With respect to Kinect Iam not stating that it will be a failure, honestly I think the opposite hell I seen it on a report on CNN yesterday(free advertisement). Currently it just doesn't appeal to me right now. Iam just waiting to see how a normal game can be played with it not the shovelware thats being pushed out now. I also don't see how a AAA game can be developed for it right now because it is Kinect only unless they find a solution for it to be Kinect and controller compatible.

edit: Don't know if this was discuss yet but are making a profit on their Kinect bundles?

 

[OldJadedGamer]

It's been out for a month. In this day and age of omnipresent and immediate feedback, if it wasn't a satisfying consumer product, the backlash would have been immense and instantaneous. It would have probably actually made headlines. What's selling Kinects now is not just the marketing. It's the fact that it works and people are enjoying it.

This is very true... if there is one thing people love to do on the internet and that is complain which is not unique to GAF so if people were not enjoying it there would be way more of a backlash of crying about it. Again, why places like Amazon customer reviews are a good place to look.

 

[kame-sennin]

And what was that potent software that Wii was getting? It was riding for a loooong time on Wii Sports' appeal, the same could be for Kinecct launch line-up. Although the general idea of waggle-based party games was much fresher at the time, so Kinect won't be able to repeat Wii's success just with that.

I'm pretty sure he's saying that nothing in Kinect's current library or upcoming release list is comparable to Wii Sports in terms of selling strength. I haven't played any of the games, so I'll reserve judgment.

Wii Play was a Wiimote with attached shovelware. That minigame collection was just bad, yet people didn't mind because it was only extra $10. Mario Kart Wii came in April 08, 17 months after Wii's launch, the rest even later.

Which speaks to the selling strength of Wii Sports. You're not really proving your point here; unless you think the Wii sold because people liked the way the box looked.

Everyone I know personally that's bought it (including me now) has bought it because they played it and thought it was good / had a lot of fun with it.

Does that count?

As someone who is probably not going to get his hands on a Kinect any time soon, I'd like to know, what are the best games?

 

[mm04]

It's been out for a month. In this day and age of omnipresent and immediate feedback, if it wasn't a satisfying consumer product, the backlash would have been immense and instantaneous. It would have probably actually made headlines. What's selling Kinects now is not just the marketing. It's the fact that it works and people are enjoying it.

Even with this line of thinking, you're going to hear from the "Oh but those were Christmas gifts!" crowd. Just wait until they actually open those gifts and start using it. THEN you'll see the backlash!

 

[FoneBone]

Wii Play was a Wiimote with attached shovelware. That minigame collection was just bad, yet people didn't mind because it was only extra $10. Mario Kart Wii came in April 08, 17 months after Wii's launch, the rest even later.

Wario Ware, Mario Party 8, and Super Mario Galaxy all sold sizable-to-large numbers between those.

 

[Alx]

As someone who is probably not going to get his hands on a Kinect any time soon, I'd like to know, what are the best games?

From my experience, the two "must have" are Dance Central and Kinect Sports.
From most users impressions and if you like their respective genre, Dance Masters, Kinectimals, and the fitness games are quite good too.
Most of the rest is so-so, or bad.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

Actually, at least a couple of 3rd party games sold well at the Wii's launch - Rayman and Red Steel. Yes, Zelda outsold them, but... is that surprising?

IIRC, weren't Trauma Center Wii's sales also pretty good?

For the record, I think you're on the right track here (particularly with your forecast) and the logic in this thread is starting to get pretty straining.

 

[kame-sennin]

I don't see how this condradicts that Wii could have become a fad - ie. a shortlived temporary craze, before gevenral audience moves on to something else. I actually thought that Wii would not be a fad as soon as it was proven successful (reinforced by Wii Fit announcement at E3 07).

- It was designed for new gamers.
- The people who were buying it were new gamers.
- It was selling extraordinarily well.

It makes more sense that it would continue to sell to new gamers than that it would suddenly stop selling well.

PS3 is suffering in the US because of its horrible marketing and poor decisions, the system itself is good.

This is as bad as the "Kinect only sells because of marketing" argument. If people wanted it, it would sell. It's not like it's some independent movie with limited distribution where people just don't know it exists. The PS3 is a wonderful product, but it is a wonderful product for a relatively small customer segment.

From my experience, the two "must have" are Dance Central and Kinect Sports.
From most users impressions and if you like their respective genre, Dance Masters, Kinectimals, and the fitness games are quite good too.
Most of the rest is so-so, or bad.

I wonder if Microsoft will change their bundle and include Kinect Sports instead.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I'm pretty sure he's saying that nothing in Kinect's current library or upcoming release list is comparable to Wii Sports in terms of selling strength. I haven't played any of the games, so I'll reserve judgment.

Which speaks to the selling strength of Wii Sports. You're not really proving your point here; unless you think the Wii sold because people liked the way the box looked.

Problem with this statement is that not a single copy of Wii Sports was ever sold according to NPD.

 

[kame-sennin]

Problem with this statement is that not a single copy of Wii Sports was ever sold according to NPD.

I don't see why that's a problem. Everyone knows that Wii Sports was selling the system. Many people bought a Wii with no additional software. And even if we're focusing on North America, the buying habits of Japanese gamers - who bought unbundled Wii Sports disks en mass - is a pretty relevant clue.

 

[szaromir]

Wario Ware, Mario Party 8, and Super Mario Galaxy all sold sizable-to-large numbers between those.

And Mario & Sonic and Smash Bros and others. Wii had a healthy lineup, but these titles didn't take off into the stratosphere like Wii Sports, MK Wii or Wii Fit. So it is reasonable that Wii rode its first 18 months mostly on Wii Sports' impact.

I'm pretty sure he's saying that nothing in Kinect's current library or upcoming release list is comparable to Wii Sports in terms of selling strength. I haven't played any of the games, so I'll reserve judgment.

Which speaks to the selling strength of Wii Sports. You're not really proving your point here; unless you think the Wii sold because people liked the way the box looked.

Yeah, I don't think Kinect titles are comparable to Wii Sports. And I was merely disagreeing that Wii Play contributed to Wii's popularity.

 

[perfectchaos007]

Because the Eyetoy was ahead of its time.

I had a 3-4 year old webcam at the time eyetoy came out that could do the same stuff as eyetoy. I could play pop the bubbles, basketball, and some other games but I can't remember. Point is that eyetoy's technology wasn't all that impressive compared to earlier devices that could perform the same tasks only eyetoy had more games for it than a normal webcam

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I don't see why that's a problem. Everyone knows that Wii Sports was selling the system. Many people bought a Wii with no additional software. And even if we're focusing on North America, the buying habits of Japanese gamers - who bought unbundled Wii Sports disks en mass - is a pretty relevant clue.

There is nothing at all to prove that Wii Sports sold the machine. Actually, as pointed out earlier there were great sales for launch games were even turds like Red Steel sold well so many folks bought games with their systems. I bought my personal unit to play Zelda. I could have thrown away the Wii Sports disc. I wouldn't confuse people buying it with playing it just because it's free with the system. Not that I'm saying that it's a bad game, cause it's not but I don't think people were paying $250 for WiiSports... they were paying $250 for the Wii itself and WiiSports came with it.

Using the sales of WiiSports is lame since it's not a stand alone game being sold and is a forced pack in and we all know, NPD doesn't count pack in games cause you get the game if you want it or not.

 

[kenji]

Any news about Sonic Colors and Goldeneye's sales number?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

IIRC, weren't Trauma Center Wii's sales also pretty good?

Yep.

They followed it up by releasing New Blood alongside several other Wii games including Super Mario Galaxy.

They followed that up by releasing Trauma Team in a non-winter month!....next to Super Mario Galaxy 2.

 

[Vinci]

And Mario & Sonic and Smash Bros and others. Wii had a healthy lineup, but these titles didn't take off into the stratosphere like Wii Sports, MK Wii or Wii Fit. So it is reasonable that Wii rode its first 18 months mostly on Wii Sports' impact.

Not entirely, but yes, Wii Sports was a one-in-a-million title that helped propel the Wii's core appeal very, very well.

Yeah, I don't think Kinect titles are comparable to Wii Sports. And I was merely disagreeing that Wii Play contributed to Wii's popularity.

Wii Play didn't contribute to the Wii's popularity - it was just useful as an indication of the Wii's mass popularity.

 

[charlequin]

I just want to point out that products that attempt to break into a new market should be measured differently than products that compete head-on in an established market.

Inasmuch as there's a difference relevant to the specific topic at hand here, though, it's that products breaking into a well-established market are more likely to sustain an initial bout of success than products seeking to establish an unknown and poorly-understood market, which makes the argument that Kinect will dry up when everyone "realizes" the ways in which it's lacking even less likely.

However the idea that marketing cant sell something thats garbage is false.

Given any remotely reasonable definitions, it's pretty much completely accurate that "good marketing" can't actually sell garbage.

Can you sell people something that doesn't live up to your promises? Yes (although not for very long.) Can you sell people something that frontloads its value so it's incredibly exciting right after a purchase but loses its luster over time? Yes. Can you sell something that triggers some innate appeal to people but ultimately, from a sober and reflective standpoint, is not actually useful? Certainly. But ultimately, all marketing strategies revolve around showing people something that they want. Inasmuch as the marketing is at least relatively accurate about what's being sold, it's not going to successfully sell anything to anyone that they would never ever want otherwise.

At its worst, advertising certainly is used to mislead people, to sell a bill of goods that does not provide the suggested return. In more important areas, this can actually be quite problematic. But we're talking about elective entertainment products here. Never has pure marketing expenditure been able to force through success for entertainment products that were not ultimately appealing to the targeted audience -- if it could, we would never have box-office bombs and underwhelming book sales.

PS3 is suffering in the US because of its horrible marketing and poor decisions, the system itself is good.

The system is overpriced and poorly positioned in the market in terms of having any distinguishing factors from its nearest competition. Inasmuch as price, software library, and package value are part of marketing (which they absolutely are) then yes, it's true that the PS3 is poorly marketed, but inasmuch as you mean "the ads are bad and/or insufficient in quantity" then no: the problem with the PS3 right now is that it is not an attractive value proposition, and the way to fix that is not to raise awareness of the product in its current state but rather to change the value proposition until it becomes attractive.

 

[szaromir]

- It was designed for new gamers.
- The people who were buying it were new gamers.
- It was selling extraordinarily well.

It makes more sense that it would continue to sell to new gamers than that it would suddenly stop selling well.

That's all true, but it could have stopped selling as soon as Holiday season craziness was over, it happens to a lot of products.

I have actually a pretty good idea what might sell to the wider audience. When I first saw the TGS05 video presenting Nintendo's vision for their upcoming Revolution console I was impressed and thought it'd be successful. I was underwhelmed by it after my first contact though (Games Convention in Leipzig in August 08) - I expected it to be more like Wii Motion+, but seeing the general crowd excitement (from gaming enthusiasts) I knew it'd be very popular.

 

[Baki]

Sony has been incredibly foolish not to have released a 4GB PS3 for $200 yet. Casual users do not see the difference between a 120GB system and a 4GB system, they only see the $100 difference in price.

Also, gift givers could care less what HDD a system has. They will buy the cheaper system to give as gifts and let the recipient worry about upgrading the HDD or whatever themselves. This is the major reason why Sony is getting killed during the holidays.

You're incredibly foolish to think that a 4GB PS3 would give Sony the cost reductions they need to sell the system at that price. HDD prices are trivial.