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NPD Sales Results For November 2010 [Update 6: PSP, PS2, Move Games]
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
But in the case of the 360, the games don't demand an install, so the 4GB is enough for saves and even some Arcade games and DLC. Back at launch they even put limits on the size of Arcade games because of that.jling84 said:
Plus the PS3 launched with a 20GB unit, they've been giving more memory with time, same way the 360 Arcade units (Nothing, 256MB, 512MB, 4GB). And is not as if removing the 120GB HDD is going to bring costs down that much. They've been adding more HDD because it is cheaper to them to do that, than continue with the 20GB from nearly 5 years ago.
Stripper13
Member
It's not the including bigger HDD's that is the issue. Sony HAS to include a decent sized drive to avoid pissing off the buyer once they install a few games and put a bit of media on there... something Microsoft does not have to be concerned with (at least not as much as Sony anyway).
It's the fact that Sony thinks a bigger HDD is a major value-adder and selling point. I very much doubt there are a significant number of consumers looking at a 160gb PS3 and then a bigger size and thinking, well that's worth the extra 80-100 bucks. Price is a major driver, HDD's add value up to a point where it makes using the device easy or without issues, but after that point (even a 60gb PS3 is unlikely to fill for the average consumer I would think) it's an arbitrary number placed on the poster/box that the consumer may appreciate, but doesn't find compelling enough to pay (in some cases) significantly more money. If it were a 5-10 dollar difference, it would absolutely be a driver... but the cost of a game or two, I couldn't justify it as a consumer.
It's the fact that Sony thinks a bigger HDD is a major value-adder and selling point. I very much doubt there are a significant number of consumers looking at a 160gb PS3 and then a bigger size and thinking, well that's worth the extra 80-100 bucks. Price is a major driver, HDD's add value up to a point where it makes using the device easy or without issues, but after that point (even a 60gb PS3 is unlikely to fill for the average consumer I would think) it's an arbitrary number placed on the poster/box that the consumer may appreciate, but doesn't find compelling enough to pay (in some cases) significantly more money. If it were a 5-10 dollar difference, it would absolutely be a driver... but the cost of a game or two, I couldn't justify it as a consumer.
perfectchaos007
Member
It's Wednesday and this thread is still alive and kickin...NPD threads are back baby!
...until Janurary 2011 numbers
Beer Monkey
Member
jling84 said:
I can see the CSR script now.
User: My game says it needs to install and it won't fit on my brand new PS3.
Rep: That's your problem.
:lol
Mr. B Natural
Member
Baki said:
Kinect is selling for the same reason the wii did - it captured the imagination of the public. It "sounds cool" and unique. The move isn't capturing the minds of the public. Why? Well, why would it?
captmcblack
Member
The HDD size wouldn't cut the price enough as to result in real value for the consumer anyway. A 32 GB PS3 wouldn't suddenly be $249 or $199 the way it needs to be to really move units, would it? Honestly, it'd cost the same or more depending on how they went about adding that memory (SSD? Very small HDD that would probably cost money to make because HDDs aren't made in that size anymore?)
And Sony wouldn't even have the courage to do that; instead, like all console mfgrs this gen they'd simply change the crap in the box and find ways to add more bulletpoints to substantiate staying at the same out-of-pocket consumer cost.
And Sony wouldn't even have the courage to do that; instead, like all console mfgrs this gen they'd simply change the crap in the box and find ways to add more bulletpoints to substantiate staying at the same out-of-pocket consumer cost.
captmcblack
Member
PSGames said:
Is 16GB of simple flash cheap enough and durable enough where the PS3 wouldn't fuck up in a year? The kind you'd put into a cheap USB thumbdrive is what I'd imagine you'd mean, correct?
The PS3 will be always running its OS from, reading from and writing to that memory. You'd probably be able to make a much cheaper PS3 with that (and maybe even a slimmer/smaller one, too)...but I'd wonder how durable it would be.
Zoe
Member
Azih said:
That's a bit misleading. Blu-ray has a constant read speed while DVD has a linear read speed. Reading on the inner edge of a DVD is faster than BD, but the outer edge is slower.
If a game is optimized for DVD read speeds, then you'll get better performance installing the BD version to disk.
szaromir said:
I was referring to how the later XBOX drives were flashed to 10GB even though their capacity was actually larger.
captmcblack said:
Yep exactly. The same cheap Flash memory that's used in the 4GB 360. It's actually faster than a HDD from what I've heard so there shouldn't be any issues.
Zoe said:
Microsoft didn't go with 10GB because they didn't have to. PS3 needs a sizable amount to allow for installs. And yes this would be a new hardware revision as this will be sold for cheaper.
szaromir said:
The majority of games don't require installs on the PS3 and the ones that do are only a couple GBs from what I've experienced. There are some that require much more space but those are few and far between.
Considering I can buy a 250GB 2.5" hard drive on Newegg for $40 without even waiting for a sale, I would imagine that the 160GB hard drive included in current PS3s costs Sony something like $10-15 when buying bulk. Not sure how some of you think that cutting the hard drive in favor for a few GB of flash memory will cut costs enough to be worth it. It would be one thing if each PS3 was sold at a $70-80 profit, but I was under the impression that any profit they were making was pretty small.
Zoe
Member
PSGames said:
Again, I was referring to the original XBOX where it was cheaper for them to flash larger drives to 10GB than to continue to use a drive that's actually that size.
And as I said earlier in the thread when this came up last time, I don't see how different manufacturing processes would be cheaper for Sony. Unless you're proposing they put flash into the HDD PS3's as well.
Cornbread78
Member
captmcblack said:
I love my 16G flash drive, I back-up all my save file there. Definately the way to go!
BTW, I think the PS3 numbers will look very very bad for the holiday season. Pretty scary how the hype train called Kinect is really pushing XBox sales. The Wal-Mart $75 gift card deal is also pushing out a lot of systems They have been flyign off shelves!
Just wait until all these kids try plugging that device into the TVs in their bedrooms after the holidays! XBox forum laughter incoming!
Mr. B Natural said:
I was going to say something similar, but I think you're overselling it a bit. I think the Wii literally came out of nowhere for people, which automatically makes its impact more substantial. Based on anecdotal evidence, it seems most people see Kinect as 'the new Wii' - that is, something that is clearly following in its footsteps.
Seriously, I've heard more people say this in relation to Kinect than about Move. But then, that's also because most people have no clue Move exists.
Cornbread78
Member
Vinci said:
Excellant point. I have seen little to NO marketing for the move outside of the one bit with KB. Everything I see on TV is for Kinect.
harriet the spy
Member
is this true? Wow. This is the first time this has ever happened without me knowing anyone who owns one. Must be getting old :/ (i do own one myself, though, but for research).RSTEIN said:
You guys must not watch ESPN because I see a ton of Move commercials on there. The only time I see Kinect commercials is when I have the HDTV on kiddy channels (Nick, CN, Disney) for my daughter. Oh and a few Burger King commercials for Kinect here & there.
I believe Move has the problem of being too much like the Wiimote. I mean, look at that thing. It really is Sony's straight up copying of the Wiimote
I believe Move has the problem of being too much like the Wiimote. I mean, look at that thing. It really is Sony's straight up copying of the Wiimote
Quick question to put some context on these numbers:
I know it's fairly common knowledge PS2 didn't hit crazy sales until around $149 - right? (please correct me if I'm wrong).
What percentage of PS2 LTD sales came after it hit $149?
Since none of the current console have hit that "mainstream" price point - I'm curious what history of a successful console suggests we should expect from this generation.
I know it's fairly common knowledge PS2 didn't hit crazy sales until around $149 - right? (please correct me if I'm wrong).
What percentage of PS2 LTD sales came after it hit $149?
Since none of the current console have hit that "mainstream" price point - I'm curious what history of a successful console suggests we should expect from this generation.
PSGames said:
And this is where separate agendas and perspectives are free to take hold. I think the 'supplants the Wii' perspective is a bit of an enthusiast position, frankly, but you're free to interpret it in that sense if you like.
see5harp said:
I don't think this requires any sort of programming perspective. Hell, I hardly even watch TV and never watch commercials. I'm talking about anecdotal evidence. I have heard, randomly in public, Kinect mentioned many times. I have never once, not even in passing, heard someone talk about Move since it's release.
LosDaddie said:
It definitely depends on what channels you watch. Being the PS3 owner demographic, I see a lot of PS3 commercials. Much more than Kinect, although I do see my fair share. You're talking sports channels etc. That's not going to reach the mainstream at all. But maybe they realize that at this point are trying to maximize exposure to the demographic most likely to buy Move or a PS3 and just cutting their losses on trying to appeal to the mainstream consumer now.
Don't forget the HUB (rebranded DiscoveryKids)!LosDaddie said:
My sister mentioned seeing a fair number of Kinect commercials on Lifetime, so MS definitely going after Wii's audience there.
Along the same lines, I'm wondering how much ESPN3 with gold accounts is helping MS since I hear ads for it all the time on ESPN radio and see it little on the ESPN website.
captmcblack
Member
I know that the only game-related commercials I see on absolutely every network at all times of the day and night during any sort of programming - childrens, adult, family, movies, primetime, late-night, sports, news, whatever - are for Black Ops, DKCR, and Kinect (and Kinectimals/Dance Central), with Kinect/Kinectimals/Dance Central being the overwhelming majority of such commercials.
I know that it's all over Burger King, ESPN media, and all over every game and tech-related website or publication you can visit on the Internet, even things like Boygeniusreport (which is about cellphones and mobile tech)
I know that the thing's appeared on Ellen and Oprah and other shit that should have nothing to do with the Kinect.
I know that it's got everything to do with the 500 million dollars they spent to make that happen, which is probably even more than they spent to push Windows Phone 7 - a technology that they launched at about the same time, but probably isn't vital to their future survival in the mobile space like the Kinect is to their survival in home entertainment space.
And anecdotally, given I see people like my kid sister, my mother, and colleagues at work who are looking to buy shit for their kids talking about Kinect, I know that the scheme is working.
I know that it's all over Burger King, ESPN media, and all over every game and tech-related website or publication you can visit on the Internet, even things like Boygeniusreport (which is about cellphones and mobile tech)
I know that the thing's appeared on Ellen and Oprah and other shit that should have nothing to do with the Kinect.
I know that it's got everything to do with the 500 million dollars they spent to make that happen, which is probably even more than they spent to push Windows Phone 7 - a technology that they launched at about the same time, but probably isn't vital to their future survival in the mobile space like the Kinect is to their survival in home entertainment space.
And anecdotally, given I see people like my kid sister, my mother, and colleagues at work who are looking to buy shit for their kids talking about Kinect, I know that the scheme is working.
SeaOfMadness
Member
It's very simple. I can sum it up in one sentence.
Move appeals to people who already own a PS3, Kinect appeals to people who don't already own an Xbox.
Sony went with the wrong strategy. They wanted something "innovative" to compete with the others, but also wanted to retain their hardcore fan base. Problem is, why sell an accessory to people who have already bought into your brand? That's a recipe for "modest success" at best. You're preaching to the choir.
Kinect on the other hand is attracting a whole new group of people. Exactly the strategy microsoft wanted. It's not enough to sell an accessory to people who already own your platform. Been there, done that. Get more people onto your platform.
the november NPD confirms that way more people bought a 360 for Kinect than bought PS3 for Move. Way way way more.
Move appeals to people who already own a PS3, Kinect appeals to people who don't already own an Xbox.
Sony went with the wrong strategy. They wanted something "innovative" to compete with the others, but also wanted to retain their hardcore fan base. Problem is, why sell an accessory to people who have already bought into your brand? That's a recipe for "modest success" at best. You're preaching to the choir.
Kinect on the other hand is attracting a whole new group of people. Exactly the strategy microsoft wanted. It's not enough to sell an accessory to people who already own your platform. Been there, done that. Get more people onto your platform.
the november NPD confirms that way more people bought a 360 for Kinect than bought PS3 for Move. Way way way more.
Cornbread78
Member
see5harp said:
LOL, I wish, I work Sun. and Mon. nights. Really, just sports and whatever else my wife is watching at the time.
SeaOfMadness
Member
Also, the dismissal of Kinect's success with "well that's just what $500M of marketing will buy you" is naive.
First, you can't sell a crappy product no matter how much money you put behind it. If it sucks, it will fail, and quickly. You might get good sales for a very short time, but word of mouth will spread and it will be DOA pretty soon. Kinect is not crappy and word of mouth has been overwhelmingly positive.
Second, why spend so much money on a crappy product? This marketing effort shows how much confidence MS has in the product. Ask anyone in marketing. You do not gamble this big if you don't sincerely believe you have a hit. Conversely, if you have doubts about a product's chances for success, you're not going to spend millions of dollars on it. I think it's quite telling that the advertising for Move is more "modest" compared to Kinect. It echoes what the management thinks.
Finally, it sounds like whoever uses this "argument" is just bitter. "No fair! Of course you'll be successful if you heavily market your product and spend gobs of cash! Anyone can do that. Try getting it to sell so well without spending that much money.. yeah now *that's* a challenge!" ... wait what?
First, you can't sell a crappy product no matter how much money you put behind it. If it sucks, it will fail, and quickly. You might get good sales for a very short time, but word of mouth will spread and it will be DOA pretty soon. Kinect is not crappy and word of mouth has been overwhelmingly positive.
Second, why spend so much money on a crappy product? This marketing effort shows how much confidence MS has in the product. Ask anyone in marketing. You do not gamble this big if you don't sincerely believe you have a hit. Conversely, if you have doubts about a product's chances for success, you're not going to spend millions of dollars on it. I think it's quite telling that the advertising for Move is more "modest" compared to Kinect. It echoes what the management thinks.
Finally, it sounds like whoever uses this "argument" is just bitter. "No fair! Of course you'll be successful if you heavily market your product and spend gobs of cash! Anyone can do that. Try getting it to sell so well without spending that much money.. yeah now *that's* a challenge!" ... wait what?
captmcblack
Member
SeaOfMadness said:
The thing has been out what...a month?
The "soon" you are talking about can in fact come soon if the thing isn't all that great, given it hasn't been out long at all.
Also, no one's dismissing its success...but it is very hard to ignore the idea that there is a shitton of money being spent to make sure that anything you hear about a game for the next few months will likely be about how awesome the thing is. In this world where we are constantly being sold/advertised to, that is an unbeatable advantage and does result in high sales regardless of how good or bad the product may be.
SeaOfMadness
Member
captmcblack said:
See, that's the "no fair!" comment I was talking about. You sound like it bothers you that they spent all this money.
As I said, if you spend a ton of money on marketing and people buy it solely because of that, you'll get good initial sales, but word of mouth/reviews will indicate future sales very quickly (as in a matter of weeks). That isn't the case with Kinect. It got a good wave of initial sales, and it *continues* to sell well not just because of marketing, but also because word of mouth is increasing its presence.
We already know it doesn't suck, but even if it did, we'd be hearing by now all kinds of anecdotes about lots of returns, stock piling up on shelves, bad reviews, negative press, etc... That's not happening.
So, good product + major marketing = major success.
AndresON777
shooting blanks
LosDaddie said:
Yeah I really only watch stuff like espn and nfl network and all you see are KB move ads. They started pimping your shape kinect ads now though.