at some point people will stop blaming marketing and realize that no one wants the system
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NPD Sales Results for November 2013 [Up3: Zelda, Pokemon, Mario, 3DS, Wii U]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
at some point people will stop blaming marketing and realize that no one wants the system
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
No numbers posted but it seems the answer is NO.
Nintendo has maybe 1-2 more handheld generations left. After that it is a wrap.
With their consoles already having become irrelevant, I don't see a place for Nintendo in this industry in 10-15 years. Barring some HUGE lucky hits like the Wii & DS again, they will be going third party in the future, like it or not.
Calamari41
41 > 38
How do you release Bayonetta on this platform? How do you release a new Zelda on this platform? X? A side scrolling Yoshi game? Shit, how do you release Smash Bros on this platform?
Those all may as well be held onto for two years and released as launch titles for the next system along with everything else set to release after the first half of next year. I mean, look at Wonderful 101. They might as well have not released that game at all.
Those all may as well be held onto for two years and released as launch titles for the next system along with everything else set to release after the first half of next year. I mean, look at Wonderful 101. They might as well have not released that game at all.
Cygnus X-1
Member
Price can make miracles man. I don't think you realize how overpriced is this system for targeting the mass market.
Ditching the tablet and bringing back the Wii remote would (1) make them possible to drop the price by 100$ in one shot; (2) make the system becoming truly a successor of the Wii and (3) getting rid of the confusion with the tablets market dominated by Apple and co.
Couple that with Mario Kart and Smash and yeah: this is truly something that can work.
Warm Machine
Member
Why won't that happen? I think the new Mario game has only grossed about 17 million dollars in all territories thus far.
I wound't be surprised about the top 10 software. All of these games have been released on more than 2 platforms and the majority is around 4 plaforms for one game...
Never say never If Iwata will be fired anything can happen.
Never say never If Iwata will be fired anything can happen.
Yeah sadly handhelds seems to be going away faster than I hoped.
I want more big games too, like Tearaway, but honestly I have no hope whatsoever that Vita could ever turn around. I am at the point where I've accepted that it's completely dead.
The Wii U I feel could still turn around, but what would be required of that (new management, a far more Western-focused outlook - particularly in regards to online functionality, a new name for the console, a broader expanse of IPs that go beyond just the ultra colorful and family-friendly, etc) is so vast that it's hard to see it ever actually happen.
Alright, so where do we go from here? Should I make a video of me flinging my Wii U out of a window, then publicly apologize to the internet ever having liked such a shameful, awful thing? Must I accept that any fun I've ever had with Nintendo products has just been a delusion produced by an immature mind?
I'm frustrated. The situation is terrible and I know there's no real way of turning around, but this shit is so overwhelming that I feel like I'm doing something wrong by even looking forward the few positive things the Wii U has left. Fuck me.
I'm frustrated. The situation is terrible and I know there's no real way of turning around, but this shit is so overwhelming that I feel like I'm doing something wrong by even looking forward the few positive things the Wii U has left. Fuck me.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Oh a Cranky year for Nintendo is pretty much guaranteed
The biggest problem I'm seeing going forward is the 3rd party situation. Microsoft and Sony can ride out any dearths in their first party software with stuff from Activision and EA. Nintendo can't do that. They're lucky if someone even bothers to release a version on the WiiU in the first place. Nobody is going to buy the WiiU version anyway though due to it performing worse than the 360/PS3 which is heavily saturated at this point. We're not even mentioning Xbone and PS4 next-gen exclusive titles.
Now that Nintendo is looking at a scenario where even their first party titles aren't selling, they're staring straight down the barrel of a gun with no hope insight. It's worse than even the GameCube where at least the GameCube had horsepower to brag about,even if it wasn't as strong as the original Xbox. It's essentially a Dreamcast like scenario.
Now that Nintendo is looking at a scenario where even their first party titles aren't selling, they're staring straight down the barrel of a gun with no hope insight. It's worse than even the GameCube where at least the GameCube had horsepower to brag about,even if it wasn't as strong as the original Xbox. It's essentially a Dreamcast like scenario.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Sometimes I think Mario as the ultimate system seller is an idea pushed by adult fans who remember the video game world from the late 80s and early 90s. Super Mario was the game you bought a video game player for then. That was its era.
Mario 64 pushed the N64 hard due to the newness of 3D graphics, but even then it was becoming clear Mario was no longer the "it" game. The problem is that many of Nintendo's best franchises - including Mario and Zelda - are games that, if you already own the console, you *will* buy. But they're not "the" game you buy it for, you gotta have it for. It's not the fault of the games. The solution is not to remake them and turn them into clones of whatever is trendy at the moment.
Rather, those games should still be made because they've got their audience. But you do have to find new games to fit the era, as the hook to get your foot in the door. Nintendo's traditional problem, their own conservatism, has led them to be surprisingly reluctant to throw a lot of new stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Gamers have always been so busy laughing at the Wii because they didn't want to accept it as real vidya gaems that they didn't see what a risk it was by Nintendo's standards. It really was out there, and it actually paid off.
People always say Nintendo cray cray, because they seem to think Nintendo does weird stuff nobody else does. This an exaggeration. Nintendo just does things that don't match the exact pulse of the industry at the moment, and that's enough to baffle and confuse many. Nintendo doesn't really do cray cray stuff that often. When they do, they actually tend to luck out much of the time. Because their truly off-the-wall ideas tend to get attention.
The DS was laughed at, but it got attention. The Wii was laughed at, but it got attention. The problem with the Wii U is that game enthusiasts scratch their heads at the controller and say it's Nintendo being crazy Nintendo again. Not really I think. Wii U is the Wii HD that probably should have existed 1 or 2 years sooner. It's not really crazy and new and out there. So without any special software to get attention, it didn't get noticed. And without 3rd party support, it didn't impress the hardcore enthusiast.
The Wii U is a pretty good product in the wrong time and place. It's perfectly capable of hosting great games, and a few key titles have proved that. At this point, I don't think Wii U owners should toss it out the window. It's too bad that it couldn't have been more this time around. Nintendo will try again, whatever it is they do. Either a lot of people will like it, or only a few people will like it. If you end up being one of the "few" then bonus; it means you have more stuff to like.
I'd be writing my resignation letter instead.
Nintendo's board needs to be shaken up.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Yeah, NPD top ten doesn't really give a true depiction of the industry, considering it's expanded largely in other areas in recent years. There's more software variety than ever before, imo.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
I think it's pretty easy to see that effect, but some people are in straight denial. 3DS won't even reach GBA numbers, in my opinion.
Just like the gamecube? This thing isn't going to sell.
I think this cements that Nintendo's 2014 behind closed doors needs to focus on a Wii U exit strategy and planning for a new system. This isn't just a mediocre console, it's a mega-bomb and their save strategies have failed. They can keep up token support for a few more years, but they need to get on the third pillar track ASAP.
No one saw Vita numbers but we do know from a Twitter leak that the Wii U outsold it. So no one is expecting anything good once a figure does get released...
Anyway, I feel like Nintendo somehow deserved this by releasing a console with an awkward vision behind it. Its control scheme is awkward, the bill of materials is apparently too high for its own good and the device is a generation behind in muscle. The software quantity is lacking, the market is confused and shockingly, it's faltering. But this is still horrible. I can't imagine them giving up on all that sunk effort by ditching this console unless they decide to exit the home console market altogether, but I wonder if Nintendo is just out of moves in this segment.
Mario fatigue (NSMBU, NSLU, SM3DW, next is Mario Kart)
Inferior hardware, the equivalent of which (PS3, Xbox 360) is selling for $175-200
Lack of major 3rd party multiplatform titles
Lack of major 3rd party exclusive titles
A mandatory peripheral that no one really cares about
Wii / Wii U brand confusion
Dramatically changing market trends (see the top 10 selling titles)
Those are the major reasons I can come up with off the top of my head. Why is Nintendo making these terrible decisions? Conservative management. It's the same problem that killed off many major Japanese corporations in the 90's or brought them to their knees.
EmCeeGramr
Member
yes
AstroNut325
Member
Nintendo forecast revision incoming? Or is Iwata going to continue his delusional streak by hoping for 2 million consoles sold in December?
Perfect post. Thank you. Especially agree with the Mario fatigue. For me I'm not interested in any more Mario games, Zelda games, or Donkey Kong games. Something new and completely original is what I'm after. Pikmin looks good, and W101 has me interested. But that is not enough. Couple that with the inferior hardware and a high price... No thank you.
I think the amazing thing about their current marketing campaign, is they are targeting people who want the console even less.
You're correct though.
It's like I stepped into Gamefaqs all of a sudden. Fuck off with this blatant trolling.
gamergirly
Member
Unless they got some big titles confirmed to be coming before end of fiscal year, they will be forced to. There's no way that Mario can do everything by himself. We need Mario Kart, we need Smash Brothers, we need new IPs. No more Mario. 3D World is great but it needs company
Why are people trying to prop up Wii U by comparing it to Vita now? Two different devices selling poorly for two different reasons. The main difference however is that Sony understands that Vita is in a place where they are trying to build it up as a companion device to PS4 and let it cut its own niche out. Wii U is supposed to be the successor to one of the highest selling consoles of all time and is selling bomba levels. I suspect Nintendo investors are on suicide watch or close to it.
Visualante2
Member
I expect them to announce a $249 Mario Kart bundle in line with their other bundles and keep dawdling on clinging to critical reception and looking towards the next golden egg.
Yes and Nintendo seems unable to make any real companionship between 3DS and WiiU while you bring it up. A missed opportunity.
Boss Man
Member
Mario Kart 7 just doesn't sound exciting at all.
I know that NPD software chart looks bad, but Nintendo is basically doing the same thing they're just not pumping them out as quickly. I think that actually has something to do with why they're struggling.
There's nothing wrong with releasing a very small iteration of Smash Bros, Mario Kart, and Donkey Kong every few years at all. The problem is when that's all you're doing.
They have so many IPs but very few actual games. Do something new with Donkey Kong. Make a Starfox game with that tablet. Do a proper Pokemon RPG. Where's Zelda U? Metroid? What's the next evolution of Mario? (3D Land -> 3D World isn't this)
I'd be willing to bet that before any of that happens, there will be another New New New Super Mario Bros. U type game released.
What have they been spending all of that Wii casual money on? Develop some new damn games.
The Wii U was one of the most successful launches up to that point.
PS4 and X1 will not maintain these sales. Just like every system, they will drop, nor is Wii U "dead", anymore than 3DS was dead and a major flop destined never to sell and proof that Nintendo would be going 3rd party:
www.vg247.com/2011/04/14/the-problem-with-3ds-why-we-could-be-looking-at-a-failure/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/13/us-nintendo-idUSTRE78C0PF20110913
Anyone who was paying attention last generation should have realized 2 things:
1. The market is insatiably hungry for games
2. The market will not buy systems until they are cheap
Every single platform last generation sold over 80 million: DS, PSP, Wii, 360, PS3. Some of those platforms took 1-3 years before they ever reached regularly high monthly sales numbers. In fact, the only system to reach and maintain high monthly sales was the Wii. (They did this in the midst of the mobile boom, not before it, despite mobile advocates crying the death of traditional devices.)
And the prime determinants of when EVERY system reached and maintained high monthly sales were a low initial hardware cost, be it the Wii's off-the-bat cheap launch price or after price drops to $299 for the PS3 and 360 and the buildup of a compelling software library (yes, even Wii Sports counts, cultural phenomenon that it was).
While that's not to say one of the two or even both systems, the PS4 and X1, may maintain high monthly sales immediately as with the Wii or PS2, it is to say that while Wii U may never reach 100 million, 80 million, or even 60 million, it is in no way dead. Anyone who is trying to sell you that idea is...
A) ignorant of the market and its history
B) trolling
C) pushing an agenda
Not at all, it's just not going to have a long lifespan and support isn't going to be around for very long.
I still think those differences with the Gamecube are far less consequential than the differences with Nintendo's other consoles. Being purple and having a handle isn't gonna pose an obstacle for developers releasing games on it. A smaller storage format (1.5GB) also wasn't a deal-breaker for the vast majority of multiplatform games back then. The controller also wasn't really that different in terms of total functionality (it was missing what? one face button?).
I don't think the Gamecube had any technical deficiencies at all, and that doesn't explain the original Xbox, which was either neck-and-neck with the Gamecube or slightly ahead of it in terms of hardware sales. The vast majority of games that generation were still PS2-only. 3rd parties didn't pass up Gamecube for technical reasons. Most of the time it was just due to projected sales.
I feel like I've said this multiple times on GAF, but I still feel like the real problem with the Gamecube was the opposite of any deficiencies: it didn't offer developers anything the other consoles didn't. Nintendo's 3rd party policies were also probably still pretty shitty back then.
Nightstick11
Banned
You are delusional. The Vita would be ignored even if it came bundled in with a PS4.
Also, for "Panic-Mode" Nintendo, that's not the one we wanna see. They get very conservative and don't experiment as much. We want Fat-Cat Nintendo from the N64 (can we all stop pretending Nintendo didn't make a shit-ton of money from N64?) and the Wii. They just greenlight anything and try all sorts of weird innovative games and localize everything.
Now that 2D and 3D Marios have been released, we don't need to see his trifling ass again until 2017, por favor. Take Donkey Kong and Yoshi with you too.
Or just enjoy your system? Wii U might be a failure commercially doesn't mean it has to or is a failure with gamers who enjoy it.
It's all good. Just don't do what the sega fans did when dreamcast died and inflate its lineup into legendary status when it was nowhere near that level. People tend to do that with anyone/anything that dies early, especially in music.
Interceptor
Banned
Wii U is dead.
Nintendo will just continue as usual. Make great games. Ride it out. Piss people off. It will be glorious.
Still has the best games. lol
Nintendo will just continue as usual. Make great games. Ride it out. Piss people off. It will be glorious.
Cygnus X-1
Member
No. Things reached a point where the entire business scheme in the States is in danger for the first time since the NES invaded the market. Well, we are not at that point actually, but the trend is pretty clear.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
DS->3DS software sales are down about 45-50% generation over generation launch-aligned as well.
There are still some good games coming out for the Wii U, the problem is they're so few...
TC McQueen
Member
Not so far, but even though people are interested, Sony's Japanese market first approach probably makes them leery of releasing it outside of Japan.
I think its the other way around in this thread.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
When is X due out? I wouldn't trust anything with a date past 2014 right now.
Velcro Fly
Member
pretty sure i recognize that name from GameFAQs so...
because gimped controls
Do you really believe that? Do you think in March of this year for example MS expected to have to even fight with Sony for the US? Have you seen the percentages in the US for the 360/PS3? Here's a hint - the 360 wiped the floor with the PS3 in the US. Now, it comes out that Sony outsold MS in the US (their strongest area), and this is good news for MS? Really? The only good news is that MS will not be able to force parity with a weaker system.
BTW, here is something that will blow your mind... Almost as many 360's sold as the XB1.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Wouldn't sell as well as Mario Kart, I don't think.