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[get2sammyb]

That 'meaningless pissing contest' is consumer mindshare during the holiday shopping season. It's not the end-all-be-all, but it really matters. Even selling at a loss, netting customers at the early stage of a platform's lifecycle is more profitable than ever before. 5-7 years of buying accesories, membership fees, and more profitable online games.

I think this is what people miss when they say Sony won't drop the price because they "can't afford to". If you look at their mid-term strategy document, their whole business hinges on increasing profit per user through the addition of services, software, and subscriptions. You can't upsell if you don't have users to sell to.

They probably couldn't react to Microsoft's 'temporary' price drop, as they likely had everything lined up already. Moreover, they were probably best waiting to see what happened anyway. Should things start trending the other way, though, they will do something about it next year - you can count on that.

I just wonder whether both companies are going to end up engaging in a 'race to the bottom'. It already feels like we're heading that way, and I'm not sure how healthy that is for the longevity of the gen.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Sony is in a position of strength. They can reduce the price when THEY think production costs are reduced enough to pass that advantage to their customers. As long as the PS4 sells strong on a global scale (it's not like PS4's perfoming bad in the US) they would be plain stupid to reduce the price just because an also-runner reduced his price to get rid of his stock.

There is no such thing as going back to an old / higher price tag. We will see that in January NPD results. I predict WiiU beating One 2:1

 

[Sidewinder]

Exactly. I suspect they'll stick with the same pricing strategy that hepled them win the PS2 generation.

Hope so too, PS4 needs to be cheap when Morpheus finally launches for massive damage!!

 

[quetz67]

I think MS has all the momentum and now they got the word of mouth going. I expect MS to overtake Sony in the US and UK by February.

This "momentum" talk is about as stupid as "competition is good".

 

[border]

I call BS. We as consumers can't say the XBONE isnt a good value proposition and then complain when they make it a good value proposition...

Not exactly surprising though. When PS4 was cheaper or had a bundle nobody dared call it a "fire sale" or "bottom of the barrel" pricing.

The salt will only continue through next year, as it appears MS is doubling down on its commitment to the gaming space. Similar deals and bundles will probably continue.

 

[hovito]

300-400k sounds about right given the bottom of the barrel pricing and freebies MS was throwing in with the system, can't imagine they made any money in November, and after paying publishers for all those free games, they probably actually lost money, but they did manage to close the gap by a 3rd in the US, give or take. I'd wager Sony made more money in November on console sales than MS did, most of the big releases still sold more on the PS4, minus bundling, COD, and Madden.

People thinking MS will wipe out the gap completely by February, lol. January and February will be dead months, if anything in the first half of the year is going to move a needle, it'll be Bloodborne when it hits, and more so in Japan than in the US I would think.

It'll be interesting to see if they stick at $350 come January or raise back up to $400. If they settle at $350, I expect to see Sony announce a cut to $350 around E3, probably not before.

Kind of a bizarre post. I'm not convinced MS care about the financials of the XBox the same way Sony probably have to. The XBox business is there for strategic reasons with regards to Microsofts platform offerings.

If this ever becomes a war of attrition there really is only one winner.

 

[Nameless]

I hope that Xbox One price drop isn't going to be temporary, or I fear for their future the other 10 months of the year. All temporary price cuts do is push sales forward. This is begging to have an even weaker pre-season, because the console at $399 has lost all value.

Well the AC games are almost certainly gone after the holidays. Reneging on the discount on top of that amounts to a $140 value swing. I can't see it. My guess is $349 with Titanfall and/or free months of Live going forward.

Or maybe their strategy is to eat it during the year and mop up during the holiday months. So it will go back up to $399 which will allow them to be even more aggressive next fall with a numbered Halo on the horizon. $299 plus games, which would all but guarantee their victory next holiday season as well.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

This "momentum" talk is about as stupid as "competition is good".

Yep, so if Sony outsells X1 in January does that mean X1's momentum is stopped dead in its tracks?

 

[Shyakugaun]

^This. Congrats Microsoft for giving away your product to stay competitive. Well done.... because you know, this is more effective than building up consumer confidence, and a great games library year round which will make people see the value of your product and buy it at full price.

It's the most saltiest time of the year lmao

 

[Sid]

Isn't the gap 4 million WW (10M XBO vs 14M PS4 shipped)?

 

[quetz67]

A pricedrop of 25% after (most probably) 20 month does not hurt Sony. They get great conditions because the PS4 runs at high production, components getting cheaper anyway and a more efficient revision will make up for the $100 easily.

But why not continue with $399 if the PS4 is still selling? Because Sony knows how they open new customer segments at $299 (and $199). Without them they never stand a chance to reach 150M. PS4 sells great but slowing down a little is no valid alternative to accelerate sales.

 

[theprodigy]

Wii U will always be a niche product. I knew that going in and am perfectly happy with the experiences I get out of it.

Honestly I don't know what anyone at this point is expecting from them. The console's not "dead" as its still making a profit for Nintendo. They'll continue to support it for a couple more years then move on. Anyone thinking they were gonna ride the tidal wave of Wii with the rise in mobile gaming is delusional. It just wasn't going to happen.

what is with this "Wii U is profitable" nonsense, why do their handhelds always get ignored

(this isn't even the first time, this happened with Gamecube too, although I could believe that one turned out a slight profit in the end given its crazy tie ratio)

 

[Miles X]

^This. Congrats Microsoft for giving away your product to stay competitive. Well done.... because you know, this is more effective than building up consumer confidence, and a great games library year round which will make people see the value of your product and buy it at full price.

Christ, is this for real? LOL

 

[Sidewinder]

It's the most saltiest time of the year lmao

We'll need it for the streets, winter is coming.

 

[Effect]

I'd like to know how much profitability the Xbox division sacrificed and if the rest of Microsoft is either okay with it or if the desire to spin/sell them off has increased.

 

[quetz67]

Yep, so if Sony outsells X1 in January does that mean X1's momentum is stopped dead in its tracks?

Yes, of course! They have no chance keeping the momentum just continuing to sell ACU bundles at $349. Sure they can go down to $299 keeping the momentum but then Sony will react and keeping the momentum becomes more and more expensive for MS.

I fully expect them to build new momentum next November, but accelerating/braking all the time while the competition keeps ahead at a constant speed is not that desirable.

 

[Nightengale]

Isn't the gap 4 million WW (10M XBO vs 14M PS4 shipped)?

No.

13.5 million shipped as of end of September. Oct/November shipment alone should easily be over 1.5 million, looking at US's 800k for November, and that's excluding other countries.

And XB1's 10 million was quoted as 'soon.' That means it's not achieved yet. Chances are 10 million as of end of December.

My guess is right now, around 15 million shipped vs 8.5-9 million shipped.

 

[Amentallica]

Man, it was so much funnier with the 7-10k difference in console sales we thought cboat alluded to, and now it's just boring, expected sales. :[

That's a lot of Xbox Ones. D:

 

[Busaiku]

what is with this "Wii U is profitable" nonsense, why do their handhelds always get ignored

(this isn't even the first time, this happened with Gamecube too, although I could believe that one turned out a slight profit in the end given its crazy tie ratio)

Most of their hardware is profitable.
I remember 3DS was their biggest loser around the time of the price drop, but they managed to get back to black a little while after that (of course then Wii U came and was the worst ever).

Of course Gamecube/N64 profits alone wouldn't have put them as high up, but they still made money off of hardware.

 

[SgtCobra]

What has any of that got to do with NPD/US sales?

Can you not just outright congratulate XB1 and MS???

ORRR we could also have a discussion with both sides saying what they think about the recent turn of events and how it will affect both companies.
I'd rather have that instead of tons of "Congrats Microsoft!!!" posts.

 

[theprodigy]

Most of their hardware is profitable.
I remember 3DS was their biggest loser around the time of the price drop, but they managed to get back to black a little while after that (of course then Wii U came and was the worst ever).

Of course Gamecube/N64 profits alone wouldn't have put them as high up, but they still made money off of hardware.

1. Wii U hardware wasn't even profitable at the start
2. more importantly, hardware alone isn't how overall profitability of the system is determined
3. conveniently ignoring handheld impact on profit all the time (GBA, 3DS) makes no sense

 

[quetz67]

I'd like to know how much profitability the Xbox division sacrificed and if the rest of Microsoft is either okay with it or if the desire to spin/sell them off has increased.

I am seriously surprised we haven't heard much from shareholder lately

 

[stryke]

Not exactly surprising though. When PS4 was cheaper or had a bundle nobody dared call it a "fire sale" or "bottom of the barrel" pricing.

This makes no sense. How can someone call $399 a firesale or bottom of the barrel? That's its launch price.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Yes, of course! They have no chance keeping the momentum just continuing to sell ACU bundles at $349. Sure they can go down to $299 keeping the momentum but then Sony will react and keeping the momentum becomes more and more expensive for MS.

I fully expect them to build new momentum next November, but accelerating/braking all the time while the competition keeps ahead at a constant speed is not that desirable.

It was a rhetorical question

 

[Busaiku]

1. Wii U hardware wasn't even profitable at the start
2. more importantly, hardware alone isn't how overall profitability of the system is determined
3. conveniently ignoring handheld impact on profit all the time (GBA, 3DS) makes no sense

1. Right, I never said that it was.
2 and 3. Wasn't saying anything regarding that, just that the hardware itself could be profitable (though with Wii U, I'm not sure, but GCN/N64 were).

 

[Miles X]

ORRR we could also have a discussion with both sides saying what they think about the recent turn of events and how it will affect both companies.
I'd rather have that instead of tons of "Congrats Microsoft!!!" posts.

That's funny, people never complained about congratulating Sony all these months.

Just a shame the one month MS wins people downplay it, looks sad.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

So it seems that the age of CoD is finally passed. This gen still has not had its breakout hit yet. There is no equivalent to Wii Sports, Wii Play, Mario Kart, GTA, CoD, Minecraft, or even a Mario & Sonic or RDR.

There is a lot of potential for a new IP to step in and fill that void. Destiny 2 and Watch Dogs 2 are obvious front-runners, but I'm kind of intrigued by the possibility of something like No Man's Sky really taking off and shaking things up.

As for MS' SKU options entering the new year, I'm convinced they will keep $349 going forward, and gradually transition the bundle to something that hurts their bottom line less, like some combination of Forza, KI, and MCC. Since they have a vested interested in keeping Halo on everyone's lips for 2015, a permanent $349 MCC bundle starting in say, February, makes the most sense.

Isn't the gap 4 million WW (10M XBO vs 14M PS4 shipped)?

Probably closer to 16:10 or 17:10 by the end of the holiday.

 

[quetz67]

It was a rhetorical question

It is so hard to tell in these threads

Still, people just don't understand that MS is still playing catch up after 2 stealth price drops while Sonys first has yet to come.

 

[FrankT]

The 1.2M how does that fare against any hardware for the month historically? I guess in terms of where this would fall historically for Nov hardware.

 

[stryke]

1. Right, I never said that it was.
2 and 3. Wasn't saying anything regarding that, just that the hardware itself could be profitable (though with Wii U, I'm not sure, but GCN/N64 were).

How do we know Gamecube hardware was profitable? Wasn't there some narrative that losses were obscured by the success of Gameboy?

The 1.2M how does that fare against any hardware for the month historically? I guess in terms of where this would fall historically for Nov hardware.

It's a very good number. Better than Wii's second November.

 

[Busaiku]

How do we know Gamecube hardware was profitable? Wasn't there some narrative that losses were obscured by the success of Gameboy?

I think Nintendo said so during the time of the 3DS drop, but I might not be remembering right.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

Sony never drops the price by only $50. At least last gen, they never did.

From $599 to $499
From $499 to $399
From $399 to $299

last gen though they needed to drop the price fast just as ms is doing right now, i too agree that it wont be 100$. ill be truly shocked if they do tbh but if they are following a plan of maximum profits that's the way to do it.

of course this is out of my ass speculations

 

[Prine]

Woah so what happened over the last 12 hours here then? I was super tired last night but forced myself to stay up for NPD. I read the first ten pages or so of this thread and witnessed all the CBOAT chaos. So what happened? CBOAT's bomb on the first page was a lie?

I'm reading back through the thread now trying to catch up. So according to Cream the difference was actually 400K and CBOAT was incorrect?

It was a lie, and if people cant see through his deliberate attempts to smear anything to do with Xbox then his removal from GAF should help. Dont think ive witnessed such wreckless and obvious trolling with "insider" status.

 

[Miles X]

The 1.2M how does that fare against any hardware for the month historically? I guess in terms of where this would fall historically for Nov hardware.

Best second November for a console of all time.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

It is so hard to tell in these threads

Still, people just don't understand that MS is still playing catch up after 2 stealth price drops while Sonys first has yet to come.

Exactly, Sony is just fine and MS is growing their install base. The two combined sold 2 million consoles in one territory in one month. That's nuts. They both have different strategies, and both have validity and both are creating great momentum.

 

[IndoAssassin]

I'd say closer to 7m NA. If XB1 has a Dec on par with Nov like it did last year, that's 6.2m~ US alone. As a rule of thumb the rest of NA is about 10% of the US, so 600k~. 6.8m sell through, 7.4m shipped~

UK + Americas will easily surpass 8.3m sell through by 2015.

Damn ao 80% of ww sales in 2 countries? That don't sound right.

 

[allan-bh]

Microsoft created a momentum for Xbox One, but Q1 2015 doesn't look so promising with Sony exclusives.

I think they need to take away some bundle out of the hat. White Xbox One + Halo MCC sounds a good idea.

 

[Bgamer90]

The 1.2M how does that fare against any hardware for the month historically? I guess in terms of where this would fall historically for Nov hardware.

It's around the same area as how the Xbox 360 did during the second half of last gen alongside kinect (in November) . Very good for a system that's so young.

 

[nannasin]

This really infuriates me, it's such a high quality game that deserves big success. Here's hoping for the next 6 months it picks up.

I am not sure it underperformed. These numbers dont count digital.

Especially, on the X1 where via EA Access you can play the game 6 days early. I wonder how much digital contributed to the overall sales.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Exactly. I suspect they'll stick with the same pricing strategy that hepled them win the PS2 generation.

This...isn't the PS2 gen however. That gen, MS was a complete unknown in gaming, with no leverage and no brand recognition. Nintendo was on the ropes, and Sega was dead. Sony didn't have any genuine competition.

This gen, Sega is still dead, Nintendo is back on the ropes but now, Microsoft is a genuine competitor. They have some leverage and brand recognition in the gaming space thanks to the 360's success. Some of Sony's PS2 strategies simply won't work b/c the other variables are not 100% the same this time around.

And FWIW, it's not like MS pulled a Sega last gen....or maybe they did. The thing however is the casual audience loved the 360 post-2010 and that market is way bigger than it was in 1995. I think this NPD kind of proves that. Maybe casuals are willing to buy into a system earlier now and at a somewhat higher price.

Sony may have to alter their pricing strategy a bit in NA and hopefully MS doesn't try any price-fixing tactics to attempt getting an edge.

 

[Voke]

What are the odds MS keeps the X1 at $350 after the holidays? Because I know if they increase the price back to $400/$500 sales will tank. They lowered the value of the X1 way too low, it's almost like their forcing themselves for a official price drop.

 

[allan-bh]

Damn ao 80% of ww sales in 2 countries? That don't sound right.

It's not that much. Maybe 60-65%.

 

[SgtCobra]

That's funny, people never complained about congratulating Sony all these months.

Just a shame the one month MS wins people downplay it, looks sad.

The funny thing is that you play the SonyToo™ card while I didn't even type anything in regards to Sony or the PS4. I just wanted to have/read some interesting standpoints/opinions from other people...
Sure congratulate Microsoft, they deserve it but cut that persecution complex out, not everyone is downplaying it.

 

[StoOgE]

Well the AC games are almost certainly gone after the holidays. Reneging on the discount on top of that amounts to a $140 value swing. I can't see it. My guess is $349 with Titanfall and/or free months of Live going forward.

Or maybe their strategy is to eat it during the year and mop up during the holiday months. So it will go back up to $399 which will allow them to be even more aggressive next fall with a numbered Halo on the horizon. $299 plus games, which would all but guarantee their victory next holiday season as well.

Microsoft have some first party games they can slot in there.

Game sales are front loaded largely so the harm in putting MCC or Sunset Overdrive of FH2 is pretty limited.

So they can move AC out and some new game in come Jan/Feb

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Man, it was so much funnier with the 7-10k difference in console sales we thought cboat alluded to, and now it's just boring, expected sales. :[

That's a lot of Xbox Ones. D:

It wasn't expected, though. Many thought it unlikely that XB1 would outsell the PS4 by more than 200k units or break 1 million sold for the month.

 

[jayvo]

Yes, of course! They have no chance keeping the momentum just continuing to sell ACU bundles at $349. Sure they can go down to $299 keeping the momentum but then Sony will react and keeping the momentum becomes more and more expensive for MS.

I fully expect them to build new momentum next November, but accelerating/braking all the time while the competition keeps ahead at a constant speed is not that desirable.

If anyone has money to spare it's Microsoft. Sony isn't in a financial position to react the way everyone is anticipating.

 

[blakep267]

Here's the roadmap for the next few months. MS wins December.

MS is going to keep the $349 price tag for the normal Xbox. They will sell whatever asscreed bundles they have left before Jan 4 and then start selling standard xboxs. Console sales will plummet in January but MS will squeak out a win.

In February they'll have a white Xbox evolve bundle for $350 which will lead to another win.

In mArch they lose to the ps4, but the U.S. gap is almost non existent by this point

 

[Brashnir]

What are the odds MS keeps the X1 at $350 after the holidays? Because I know if they increase the price back to $400/$500 sales will tank. They lowered the value of the X1 way too low, it's almost like their forcing themselves for a official price drop.

I'd put the odds at or near 100%.

 

[BokehKing]

If xone was $329 this past November, will it be $250 next year at this time? (for that short time frame)

 

[SDCowboy]

What are the odds MS keeps the X1 at $350 after the holidays? Because I know if they increase the price back to $400/$500 sales will tank. They lowered the value of the X1 way too low, it's almost like their forcing themselves for a official price drop.

I could see them keeping just the console at $350. I can't see the current bundle staying that ridiculously low. Who knows though.