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[unapersson]

I assume Sony are looking at staying in the black for gaming in their next quarterly report, do we think that with all the price cuts that MS will do the same? I guess software sales could offset that, but both are giving away some of their bigger titles.

 

[mrklaw]

The SoC is bigger in the XB1 and DDR3 prices have risen enough to match GDDR5 prices IIRC. I'm uncertain what AMD charges for the licensing, but other than that size of the SoC is all that matters for price of it. XB1 could get comparatively cheaper down the line if the ESRAM scales down well on smaller nodes. A big portion of the chip is dedicated to the ESRAM which AFAIK is easier to scale than other stuff, but I'm not 100% certain. Right now we're seeing most foundries have big issues developing new nodes that are cost efficient which could delay price drops for both systems unless they're willing to take a loss. The 28nm HPM node they are made on has been around since 2013* and while there are 20nm devices out there today the node is in short supply as evident by Apple's shortages and lack of A8 chip in the new iPad Mini.
'Standard' 28nm has been around since 2012.

The PS4 case is clearly a cheaper with a smaller cooling solution, smaller size and the internal PSU.

Edit: Added some more info.

Basically Sony should be able to match or Beat XB1 cost of goods therefore they are well placed to compete on price if needed, unless MS persists in subsidising lower prices

 

[Ty4on]

Basically Sony should be able to match or Beat XB1 cost of goods therefore they are well placed to compete on price if needed, unless MS persists in subsidising lower prices

Yeah, that chip and RAM are a stroke of genius in comparison. XB1 could face some problems if sales don't pick up and DDR3 prices further increase as production moves over to mobile and DDR4. The latter might be slow though as we certainly aren't limited by memory bandwidth with today's CPUs and PC sales have started to rise ever so slightly.
GDDR5 is still quite expensive, but I don't think we have anything else on the horizon to prevent prices from going down.

It will be really interesting to see if they can reduce the prices. Just a crazy idea from me, but we might see a really short generation if there are no new nodes available and they instead have to redesign the console architecture. Maxwell showed what a new architecture could do to efficiency and AMD's Puma cores show decent gains over Jaguar, but that would require a new generation when games are "coded to the metal".

Edit: Hi there. I'm pretty sure the number I mentioned earlier is 137. 360 is very interesting and seems to have beaten the WiiU, but it is hard to nail down even with 50 preds. Does anyone know what Pachter's numbers were?

 

[gtj1092]

http://news.walmart.com/news-archiv...310.1&u1=web-desktop&affillinktype=10&veh=aff

Saw this in OT. So does this mean Walmart will start selling the Ps4 GTA bundle today? Wonder if its from the pressure of all the people wanting $90 ps4s. If they do start selling them today it also tells me Sony has plenty of stock since other retailers will be forced to match this to retain sales.

November NPD is going to be interesting ;-)

Edit: Readomg it again it sounds more like they will match other retailers black friday offers for Ps4 a week early. Same difference I guess. Maybe someone else can weigh in who works at Walmart.

 

[QaaQer]

I'v heard about this, and that is why I am hoping it starts to do better.
I think a lot of xbox fans (myself included) just want to see their console do well so as to assure them that the brand will continue to be supported.

Really, I wish the same for all the big three though. In a perfect world (for me), all three consoles would sell equally every month, and just continue to show growth in the industry, even if just by a little.

I'm a big Halo fan, but I also love Zelda, and Uncharted, and many other exclusive franchises that I would hate to see go under, or be mistreated if any of the big 3 were to collapse or get sold off one day.

Buying Minecraft was a large vote of confidence wrt gaming at MS. No need to worry, even if this gen is bad.

I worry more about Nintendo, tbh.

 

[StevieP]

Nintendo is not going to be the answer to Sony. Their relevance in the console market is shrinking; selling only to their hardcore fans means they aren't creating any real mindshare.

Don't forget about iwata killing your dog. All it takes to have a successful console is a good idea and/or great execution. That goes for nintendo and Microsoft, not just sony. In fact, with the market shifting every which way in terms of gaming devices, having those things and igniting the imaginations of the mainstream is increasingly important to adoption.

Yeah, that chip and RAM are a stroke of genius in comparison. XB1 could face some problems if sales don't pick up and DDR3 prices further increase as production moves over to mobile and DDR4. The latter might be slow though as we certainly aren't limited by memory bandwidth with today's CPUs and PC sales have started to rise ever so slightly.
GDDR5 is still quite expensive, but I don't think we have anything else on the horizon to prevent prices from going down.

It will be really interesting to see if they can reduce the prices. Just a crazy idea from me, but we might see a really short generation if there are no new nodes available and they instead have to redesign the console architecture. Maxwell showed what a new architecture could do to efficiency and AMD's Puma cores show decent gains over Jaguar, but that would require a new generation when games are "coded to the metal".

Edit: Hi there. I'm pretty sure the number I mentioned earlier is 137. 360 is very interesting and seems to have beaten the WiiU, but it is hard to nail down even with 50 preds. Does anyone know what Pachter's numbers were?

There is no metal... They're all going through APIs, which could make a generational transition smoother.

 

[jcm]

Are there any good 3DS Black Friday deals? I'm afraid our Powerhouse™ is going to need some if it wants to keep the finish against the PSP respectable. Last year's Nov and Dec sales were 770 and 1100, respectively. The 3DS is down 37% YOY this year, so it would be a surprise to match even that.

        3DS 2014  PSP 2008  NDS 2008
January       97       230       251
February     153       243       587
March        159       297       698
April        106       193       415
May           97       182       452
June         152       337       783
July         108       222       608
August        91       253       518
September    141       238       537
October      138       193       491
November               421      1570
December              1020      3040
Through 
October     1242      2388      5340

Total                 3829      9950

 

[mrklaw]

Yeah, that chip and RAM are a stroke of genius in comparison. XB1 could face some problems if sales don't pick up and DDR3 prices further increase as production moves over to mobile and DDR4. The latter might be slow though as we certainly aren't limited by memory bandwidth with today's CPUs and PC sales have started to rise ever so slightly.
GDDR5 is still quite expensive, but I don't think we have anything else on the horizon to prevent prices from going down.

It will be really interesting to see if they can reduce the prices. Just a crazy idea from me, but we might see a really short generation if there are no new nodes available and they instead have to redesign the console architecture. Maxwell showed what a new architecture could do to efficiency and AMD's Puma cores show decent gains over Jaguar, but that would require a new generation when games are "coded to the metal".

Edit: Hi there. I'm pretty sure the number I mentioned earlier is 137. 360 is very interesting and seems to have beaten the WiiU, but it is hard to nail down even with 50 preds. Does anyone know what Pachter's numbers were?

I think we might see a shorter one anyway. HBM or other stuff coming along soonish might trigger a jump in performance that may prompt MS to do a quick follow up to Xbox 1, especially if they continue to lag behind PS4.

And if done smoothly, I don't think consumers would react badly - overlap like iOS devices so older consoles still play all the games but at lower resolutions or details

 

[Final Verdict]

Buying Minecraft was a large vote of confidence wrt gaming at MS. No need to worry, even if this gen is bad.

I worry more about Nintendo, tbh.

Hope your right.

I'm not worried about Nintendo yet. They said that they are at least going to attempt one more console. I'll be worried about them if their next one ends up being bad like the Wii U...

Which really, Nintendo is in a difficult position.
To get 3rd party support, they are going to need to create a powerful machine that can appeal to hardcore gamers, but if they do that, then the pricetag will be high, and they will lose a lot of the family/kids audience.

I thin the Wii U's biggest problem is that it trys to skirt inbetween the two different types of audiences, and ends up appealing to neither.

$350-$300 is too much to really get any support from casuals, but at the same time, the console is not powerful enough to get hardcore gamers coming over for the 'best' 3rd party games experience (and as a result they lost what little support they had from 3rd partys).

Also their network....
Sometimes I feel like I could run the company better than Iwata, but I will respect the fact that it is probably much harder than it seems from a complete outsider's perspective.

 

[allan-bh]

The 3DS is down 37% YOY this year, so it would be a surprise to match even that.

This 138k is your estimate?

 

[jcm]

This 138k is your estimate?

No, it's mpl90 and ty4on's estimate, from a couple pages back.

 

[Road]

This thread is so confusing... =|

The Xbox 360 is 7k~207k behind the Wii (going by my count based on all the random data information).

The overtaking could happen in November. I wonder if Microsoft will mention it on their November PR of winning.

 

[Conduit]

Consoles

PS4 Lego Batman 3 & LittleBigPlanet 3 Console Bundle with Choice of Extra Game and Controller at $449

Nintendo 3DS XL New Super Mario Bros 2 Handheld (Price TBA)

Controllers

Sony Dualshock 4 Controller, Glacier White

Sony Dualshock 4 Controller, Wave Blue

Sony Dualshock 4 Controller, Urban Camo

Sony Dualshock 4 Controller – Black

Video Games

Watch Dogs

Disney Infinity: Marvel Super Heroes (2.0 Edition) Video Game Starter Pack (PS4)

Madden NFL 15

 

[CosmicQueso]

Ad.

Erm, no idea what retailer that is. Whosawhatsit?

 

[Ty4on]

No, it's mpl90 and ty4on's estimate, from a couple pages back.

I'm much more certain on 137k. 138 was earlier and I haven't checked 100% if either is perfect.

360 is 70k-ish. It's very hard to pin down, but seems to have stabilized there. It's a brute force algorithm so the number are random ones that fit.

 

[CosmicQueso]

This thread is so confusing... =|

The Xbox 360 is 7k~207k behind the Wii (going by my count based on all the random data information).

The overtaking could happen in November. I wonder if Microsoft will mention it on their November PR of winning.

It's a dead heat. It absolutely will flip in November.

That's also a super interesting stat, wow.

I'm much more certain on 137k. 138 was earlier and I haven't checked 100% if either is perfect.

360 is 70k-ish. It's very hard to pin down, but seems to have stabilized there. It's a brute force algorithm so the number are random ones that fit.

Why the push for such precision? (I do admire it, however)

 

[serversurfer]

That $450 PS4 bundle is sweet. Where can we get it??

 

[Elandyll]

Erm, no idea what retailer that is. Whosawhatsit?

Colors make me think BestBuy, but yes, a bit confusing.

 

[Ty4on]

Why the push for such precision? (I do admire it, however)

Because it is imprecise

My first values were quite off and I haven't checked those that detailed. I do agree I obsess a bit over them

Edit: I should specify they're imprecise to begin with hence I want to be precise with the estimates.

 

[Chobel]

Do we have any estimates of Sunset Overdrive and Driveclub sales?

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

I'm much more certain on 137k. 138 was earlier and I haven't checked 100% if either is perfect.

360 is 70k-ish. It's very hard to pin down, but seems to have stabilized there. It's a brute force algorithm so the number are random ones that fit.

Its sort of sad the 360 managed to outdo a great Wii U month...

Do we have any estimates of Sunset Overdrive and Driveclub sales?

The other forum said >110K (Need clarification on Sunset Overdrive bundles) and mid-40s, around 45K
Not 100% sure

 

[Conduit]

That $450 PS4 bundle is sweet. Where can we get it??

Erm, no idea what retailer that is. Whosawhatsit?

Colors make me think BestBuy, but yes, a bit confusing.

Walmart


http://pinoytutorial.com/techtorial...planet-3-bundle-3ds-xl-console-and-ps4-games/

 

[Chobel]

The other forum said >110K (Need clarification on Sunset Overdrive bundles) and mid-40s, around 45K
Not 100% sure

Jesus Christ! That's really bad especially for SO, since it seems like an excellent game.

 

[Mpl90]

Consoles

PS4 Lego Batman 3 & LittleBigPlanet 3 Console Bundle with Choice of Extra Game and Controller at $449

Nintendo 3DS XL New Super Mario Bros 2 Handheld (Price TBA)

Controllers

Sony Dualshock 4 Controller, Glacier White

Sony Dualshock 4 Controller, Wave Blue

Sony Dualshock 4 Controller, Urban Camo

Sony Dualshock 4 Controller – Black

Video Games

Watch Dogs

Disney Infinity: Marvel Super Heroes (2.0 Edition) Video Game Starter Pack (PS4)

Madden NFL 15

That 3DS XL...it's the first time I see it.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Jesus Christ! That's really bad especially for SO, since it seems like an excellent game.

I honestly wonder what peoples expectations were for SO. It did OK. When you tell them it only did a bit better than B2 and DC combined (without bundles) it automatically translates to "How terrible for SO"

 

[Chobel]

I honestly wonder what peoples expectations were for SO. It did OK. When you tell them it only did a bit better than B2 and DC combined (without bundles) it automatically translates to "How terrible for SO"

For me, any AAA game with less than 200K in its launch week is a bomba.

 

[orochi91]

For me, any AAA game with less than 200K in its launch week is a bomba.

This all but guarantees we'll see it on PC sometime next year.

 

[lightning2k3]

That PS4 bundle is almost better than the black friday deal. Wow.

 

[Aquamarine]

I honestly wonder what peoples expectations were for SO. It did OK. When you tell them it only did a bit better than B2 and DC combined (without bundles) it automatically translates to "How terrible for SO"

For some reason, Sunset Overdrive reminds me of Jet Set Radio.

Hopefully, Sunset Overdrive will manage more than Jet Set Radio's original Dreamcast LTD sales (291K).

 

[CosmicQueso]

For me, any AAA game with less than 200K in its launch week is a bomba.

<200k on one platform is better than 250k on 4 though, isn't it? Just sayin.

 

[Chobel]

<200k on one platform is better than 250k on 4 though, isn't it? Just sayin.

We're talking about 110K-120K here, It's nowhere close to 200K. But yes, 200k on one platform is better than 250k on 4.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

For me, any AAA game with less than 200K in its launch week is a bomba.

So B2 and DC weren't meant to be AAA is what you're saying?

Or is it because we're guessing based on what we think the advertising budget may be?

 

[Version 3.0]

This thread is so confusing... =|

The Xbox 360 is 7k~207k behind the Wii (going by my count based on all the random data information).

The overtaking could happen in November. I wonder if Microsoft will mention it on their November PR of winning.

I have the 360 at 67k shy of the Wii. Seems very likely the streams will finally cross in November. But it seemed certain that it would happen almost two years ago, and again last Christmas. It'll be kind of a bummer if it finally happens and goes unremarked.

 

[Chobel]

So B2 and DC weren't meant to be AAA is what you're saying?

Or is it because we're guessing based on what we think the advertising budget may be?

No, I didn't say that, Both are AAA games and both bombed so fucking hard.

 

[CosmicQueso]

I have the 360 at 67k shy of the Wii. Seems very likely the streams will finally cross in November. But it seemed certain that it would happen almost two years ago, and again last Christmas. It'll be kind of a bummer if it finally happens and goes unremarked.

I have <25k gap... but we're in the 40m+ range, it's less than rounding error at this point.

 

[Aquamarine]

I have <25k gap... but we're in the 40m+ range, it's less than rounding error at this point.

I was going to say...not even NPD is accurate enough to perfectly account for the tiny, tiny LTD gap between the two consoles.

Precision really isn't all that important when comparing those two behemoths.

 

[JaggedSac]

For me, any AAA game with less than 200K in its launch week is a bomba.

If you include bundles and digital, they almost certainly hit 200k in the US.

 

[Chobel]

If you include bundles and digital, they almost certainly hit 200k in the US.

Well I hope so. Still even 200K isn't that great number, and this game especially deserves more than that.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

No, I didn't say that, Both are AAA games and both bombed so fucking hard.

I would be very surprised to discover the production budgets for bayonetta 2 and driveclub were even approximately equal

 

[Chobel]

I would be very surprised to discover the production budgets for bayonetta 2 and driveclub were even approximately equal

While it's safe to assume that Driveclub has a bigger budget than Bayonetta 2, I really doubt Bayonetta 2 sales will be good enough to make it profitable for Nintendo.

 

[geordiemp]

but Driveclub has been promised on PS+

Lots of people are probably waiting for their free game to try out.

So drive club has been put in a different place releasing as a part PS game with an upgrade option , its almost like its not been released properly yet

 

[JaggedSac]

Well I hope so. Still even 200K isn't that great number, and this game especially deserves more than that.

It has leaderboards, anyone know what its up to on there? I'm picking up takeout right now so can't check.

 

[QaaQer]

While it's safe to assume that Driveclub has a bigger budget than Bayonetta 2, .

the team for b2 was less than 45 devs?

 

[cakely]

It has leaderboards, anyone know what its up to on there? I'm picking up takeout right now so can't check.

If the 24 hour trial is on now the leaderboards probably aren't a good reflection of the number of copies sold.

 

[JaggedSac]

If the 24 hour trial is on now the leaderboards probably aren't a good reflection of the number of copies sold.

Lol, yeah, I just saw that it opened up.

 

[Rendition]

Anyone have a read on how the next gen GTA V is selling vs. Far Cry 4, Dragon Age Inquisition, and Call of Duty Advanced Warfare this month?

 

[Chobel]

the team for b2 was less than 45 devs?

Really? I guess B2 could be profitable after all.

EDIT: Reading fail.

 

[theprodigy]

I would be very surprised to discover the production budgets for bayonetta 2 and driveclub were even approximately equal

it's a good thing Driveclub has Europe+more digital sales to help it then, huh

Really? I guess B2 could be profitable after all.

I assume that statement is saying Driveclub had only 45 devs (wait what?)

 

[serversurfer]

Anyone have a read on how the next gen GTA V is selling vs. Far Cry 4, Dragon Age Inquisition, and Call of Duty Advanced Warfare this month?

Based on the number of streams on Live from PlayStation, 3-4x as much as any of those other games.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Welcome back Aqua.

Seems I missed out when the numbers were being slipped into email tags. The only "solid" numbers I'm seeing are for PS4, Xbone and 3DS. Oh well, guess my spreadsheet days are over.