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[ItWasMeantToBe19]

It's a bit of a perception issue.

Sony has three series that sell really well: Gran Turismo, Uncharted, and God of War.

However, they release around 20 different series, so the other 17 doing poorly to moderately makes it look like their games never sell.

They have the lowest first-party software sales of the generation (At least back near the end of 2008) despite having like twenty more developers than Microsoft. And that is pretty terrible.


http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=20988


That's probably changed a bit with GT5, GoW3, and UC2, but that still looks pretty terrible. Not even mentioning that the seven entries of Sony's top three series this generation probably didn't reach the combined sales of the tenth best selling game from Nintendo this generation.

 

[gatti-man]

Does this post make any sense? Why would MS buy out Insomniac? Especially when the company is making a game on the 360 without being a first party acquisition. If anything Sony would have done so already, but it seems Insomniac wants to remain independent.

By the way you need to learn how to troll better. Too obvious.

Because I want them to? It wasnt a troll. I was replying to a post about them being on a Deathwatch, it was just a pie in the sky comment. The only real serious comment I made in the post is that 1st party Sony games this gen have largely bored me whereas Ive completed and enjoyed far more MS exclusives. Hindsight being 20/20 I dont think I would have bought a PS3 this gen and I have had mine since launch day.

 

[Nirolak]

They have the lowest first-party software sales of the generation (At least back near the end of 2008) despite having like twenty more developers than Microsoft. And that is pretty terrible.


http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=20988


That's probably changed a bit with GT5, GoW3, and UC2, but that still looks pretty terrible. Not even mentioning that the seven entries of Sony's top three series this generation probably didn't reach the combined sales of the tenth best selling game from Nintendo this generation.

Right, I didn't mean to say that they have great sales (especially relative to investment) by any means, just that not 100% of their series keel over and die.

They didn't build up a forward looking first party line-up back when it was easier to do so, so now they're panning for gold.

They've gained one big series this generation, which is a pretty slow rate of success, but they did at least get that much.

 

[ThisWreckage]

They have the lowest first-party software sales of the generation (At least back near the end of 2008) despite having like twenty more developers than Microsoft. And that is pretty terrible.


http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=20988


That's probably changed a bit with GT5, GoW3, and UC2, but that still looks pretty terrible. Not even mentioning that the seven entries of Sony's top three series this generation probably didn't reach the combined sales of the tenth best selling game from Nintendo this generation.

I guarantee that isn't the case anymore. Most of their first party games have pushed at least 2 million copies sold. Sony does not have a Halo or a Mario. It's that simple.

 

[NBtoaster]

Because I want them to? It wasnt a troll. I was replying to a post about them being on a Deathwatch, it was just a pie in the sky comment. The only real serious comment I made in the post is that 1st party Sony games this gen have largely bored me whereas Ive completed and enjoyed far more MS exclusives. Hindsight being 20/20 I dont think I would have bought a PS3 this gen and I have had mine since launch day.

Resistance and R&C are Sony IPs so if MS bought Insomniac you wouldn't get them anyway on the next Xbox

 

[gatti-man]

Resistance and R&C are Sony IPs so if MS bought Insomniac you wouldn't get them anyway on the next Xbox

Good point. Its late and Im not thinking clearly. Still Insomniac gameplay is what Im a fan of. You could call it toaster and rodent and I would eat it up.

 

[Le-mo]

I guarantee that isn't the case anymore. Most of their first party games have pushed at least 2 million copies sold. Sony does not have a Halo or a Mario. It's that simple.

Gran Turismo is the closest thing to a Halo and Mario for Sony.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Gran Turismo is the closest thing to a Halo and Mario for Sony.

That's true. Between Prologue and GT5 that franchise has been a monster for them this gen. That's not even counting the upcoming DLC.

 

[Sobriquet]

They have the lowest first-party software sales of the generation (At least back near the end of 2008) despite having like twenty more developers than Microsoft. And that is pretty terrible.


http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=20988


That's probably changed a bit with GT5, GoW3, and UC2, but that still looks pretty terrible. Not even mentioning that the seven entries of Sony's top three series this generation probably didn't reach the combined sales of the tenth best selling game from Nintendo this generation.

That was three years ago. Things are a lot different now.

 

[Violater]

Sales numbers don't usually bother me, but the Gears vs Resistance battle has never seemed to be close.

 

[Sean]

I guarantee that isn't the case anymore. Most of their first party games have pushed at least 2 million copies sold. Sony does not have a Halo or a Mario. It's that simple.

After heavy bundling maybe. Just about all of Sony's first party titles debut at under 300k in the NPD and then fall out of the charts completely.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

That was three years ago. Things are a lot different now.

Probably, hopefully there's an updated graph eventually.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Sales numbers don't usually bother me, but the Gears vs Resistance battle has never seemed to be close.

I'm reminded of Shane Kim's "Gears 2 will outsell Resistance 2" prediction that spawned a multi-page bear/salmon thread here. The two franchises have only been compared because of timing and their respective exclusivity. Gears' hype was an impossible standard to live up to even as far back as '06.

The discussion of the last two pages brought up another interesting point - the multiplayer of R3 removed features from R2. Among all the biggest console shooters, this is never done; it's a grave sin. They simply add features on top of what's already there. Reach has all of the multi options of Halo 3 plus better matchmaking and firefight. The only variable is map count. Despite the resources they consume, I don't think CoD is going to remove spec-ops mode or zombie mode any time soon, and Gears will always have Horde going forward. Once a chunk of your fanbase is invested in a mode, growth demands that that mode stays.

 

[French]

Real question, why do PS3 exclusives not sell?

Didn't know GT, Uncharted, GoW and some others weren't selling.

Alan Wake, Crackdown 2, Banjo and some other 360 exclusive didn't sell well too. Or even Forza, the third one debuted at 175k two years ago.

Both Sony and MS have games that don't sell well.

 

[-MB-]

After heavy bundling maybe. Just about all of Sony's first party titles debut at under 300k in the NPD and then fall out of the charts completely.

And that matters how?
Not everything has to be frontloaded to be a success. That is just what u have come to expect from this generation fueled by hyping and quick sales.
Their strategy is a great one to entice new ppl to buy a system.

 

[[Nintex]]

Sony is slower to move on market trends than Microsoft is. Microsoft isn't liked by some because of their strategy but from a business point of view it works. Little Big Planet, Resistance... Microsoft would've killed those off at the second installments.

There's just so many shooters out there that there's almost no reason to buy one that isn't as great as Call of Duty or Crysis or whatever. If Sony can't convince the market that Resistance 3 is better than those games they're pretty much screwed. I feel like Resistance 3 is one of those games that should've been cheaper at launch $30 or $40 or something.

I also feel that because this gen is longer I buy less games. After you've got 20+ games that are awesome and that you really like you're kinda becoming selective in what you buy. You might as well play Resistance again instead of buying the third game. I think it'll hurt more games in the future like Forza 4. I've already got NFS, PGR3+4, DIRT, GRID, Forza 2+3 and a bunch of other racers and I haven't even finished Forza 3 yet and I don't see a reason to by part 4 if I got bored with part 3. The same can be said for many other franchises and genres. I've got a bunch of platform games now like Donkey Kong and New Super Mario Bros. and whatnot, is it really worth it to by a Kirby game that isn't as good?

I think this is mostly what games like Ratchet & Clank and Rayman Origins Wii will suffer from "I've already got so many 'x-type' of games, why would I buy another one?" especially when the difference between the games is small and by releasing DLC they're trying to expand the life of games.

 

[kneePat]

Didn't know GT, Uncharted, GoW and some others weren't selling.

Alan Wake, Crackdown 2, Banjo and some other 360 exclusive didn't sell well too. Or even Forza, the third one debuted at 175k two years ago.

Both Sony and MS have games that don't sell well.

Its true that Sony's best sellers seem to at least come close or surpass 360's lower selling exclusives, but really the worrisome fact is that some of Sony's lowest selling exclusives are scarily low.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Sony is slower to move on market trends than Microsoft is. Microsoft isn't liked by some because of their strategy but from a business point of view it works. Little Big Planet, Resistance... Microsoft would've killed those off at the second installments.

But then...

I also feel that because this gen is longer I buy less games. After you've got 20+ games that are awesome and that you really like you're kinda becoming selective in what you buy. You might as well play Resistance again instead of buying the third game. I think it'll hurt more games in the future like Forza 4. I've already got NFS, PGR3+4, DIRT, GRID, Forza 2+3 and a bunch of other racers and I haven't even finished Forza 3 yet and I don't see a reason to by part 4 if I got bored with part 3. The same can be said for many other franchises and genres.

So are you advocating publishers investing in sequels, especially sequels of smaller games, at this point or not? Because from the business point of view you seem to suggest it's the way to go, but then you say it isn't. From the personal side, you also say you might as well just play the old games instead of buying the sequels.

EDIT: Oh, sorry, I misread "isn't" as "is" in that first paragraph. Still, I wouldn't put LittleBigPlanet together with Resistance, I was under the impression LBP was actually doing very well. Both approaches are valid, in my opinion, but Microsoft's bottom line suggests that theirs has a slight edge.

 

[D4Danger]

And that matters how?
Not everything has to be frontloaded to be a success. That is just what u have come to expect from this generation fueled by hyping and quick sales.
Their strategy is a great one to entice new ppl to buy a system.

I doubt they're seeing much of a return when 70% of the sales are $10 or from bundles 3 months after release

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I think this is mostly what games like Ratchet & Clank and Rayman Origins Wii will suffer from "I've already got so many 'x-type' of games, why would I buy another one?"

Yeah I raised an eyebrow when Patrick mentioned Ratchet & Clank in the PR, that franchise does not hold the weight it used to. Far from it.

 

[KingDizzi]

Real question, why do PS3 exclusives not sell?

First party Sony titles never really set the sales charts alight but they obviously are doing alright. Sony would not be buying the likes of MM and Sucker Punch if they were not happy with sales, not just that but also expanding the likes of GG and PD.

Have to bring up WW sales (I sense a tear rolling down jadedgamers cheek) simply because without WW sales things just don't make sense. For example GT5 shipped just 1.5 million in NA, with a budget of $60 million and the huge adverting push that would seem like a bomb of epic proportions and would expect PD cuts. Then you look at WW sales and the 3.8 million shipped in EU, Sony is doing much better in EU compared to NA so chances are their games are selling better in EU than NA as well. So looking at NPD threads aren't telling the whole story, especially with MS vs Sony first party sales when the likes of Halo and Gears do considerably better in NA compared to EU, while for Sony first party games it seems a more even split.

Resistance 3 was fucked the day the game was announced, as was Ratchet All 4 One. Move the fuck on Insomniac, hope they just go all out multiplat and not bother with Sony anymore.

I doubt they're seeing much of a return when 70% of the sales are $10 or from bundles 3 months after release

The fuck? Love it when facts are pulled right out the arse. :/

 

[AniHawk]

I think this is mostly what games like Ratchet & Clank and Rayman Origins Wii will suffer from "I've already got so many 'x-type' of games, why would I buy another one?" especially when the difference between the games is small and by releasing DLC they're trying to expand the life of games.

ratchet & clank won't sell because it's part of a series that has been declining since 2004 (which is frustrating as hell for me), but rayman should do okay due to the audience being there. most people will get kirby for their four-player family platformer game, but if people get that before christmas and still need another game (or want TWO or THREE games, as what usually happens), rayman will probably fill that gap.

plus the wii is the home for the family game market anyway. it was keeping those awful tony hawk games alive even after the audiences on the other consoles disappeared.

 

[KKRT00]

Its true that Sony's best sellers seem to at least come close or surpass 360's lower selling exclusives, but really the worrisome fact is that some of Sony's lowest selling exclusives are scarily low.

Scary low? What exclusive except maybe Socom havent surpassed 1m?

And best sellers are close to lower selling exclusive 360? Thats not true, Alan Wake barely surpassed 500k sales, Banjo probably 2m, PGR 3 and 4? Probably both under 2m and probably closer to 1m, which makes them quite low and lower than most Sony's exclusives.
Best sellers on Sony side starts with over 3m+ copies.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Pretty mediocre numbers for Resistance 3 considering they have improved the core mechanics, it's a shame but I think Sony needs to move on, commercially there isn't much Sony can do to resurrect the franchise, Insomniac just isn't a top-tier shop anymore..

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Resistance 3 was fucked the day the game was announced, as was Ratchet All 4 One. Move the fuck on Insomniac, hope they just go all out multiplat and not bother with Sony anymore.

The problem wasn't Sony, the problem was the fact that Insomniac insisted on making sequels to a platformer that they have already milked enough, and they simply couldn't make a top-tier shooter. I wouldn't be surprised if Insomniac runs into the same problem with their next game published by EA.

 

[[Nintex]]

Talking about Socom I think Zipper is pretty screwed when that weird Resident Evil mod bombs.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Talking about Socom I think Zipper is pretty screwed when that weird Resident Evil mod bombs.

Isn't it Slant Six working on that shit game?

 

[Nirolak]

Talking about Socom I think Zipper is pretty screwed when that weird Resident Evil mod bombs.

That's Slant Six.

Zipper is owned by Sony.

 

[[Nintex]]

That's Slant Six.

Zipper is owned by Sony.

Oh I messed up then, correction Slant Six is pretty screwed.

Slant Six is pretty fucking screwed, they thought they would be a cheap SOCOM shop while Zipper works on MAG but that totally backfired, they're a third-rate shooter shop and there are plenty of those.

Ah that's why I was hit by confusion

 

[ProfessorMoran]

That's Slant Six.

Zipper is owned by Sony.

Yeah Slant Six is pretty fucking screwed, they thought they would be a cheap SOCOM shop while Zipper works on MAG but that totally backfired, they're a third-rate shooter shop and there are plenty of those.

 

[Nirolak]

Oh I messed up then, correction Slant Six is pretty screwed.


Ah that's why I was hit by confusion

Actually, I think Capcom intends to buy them: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=443254

They put out that note out of the blue, which implies they have at least one acquisition with a current partner in mind.

 

[[Nintex]]

Actually, I think Capcom intends to buy them: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=443254

They put out that note out of the blue, which implies they have at least one acquisition in mind.

I think Captroll is more likely to buy Ninja Theory.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Actually, I think Capcom intends to buy them: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=443254

They put out that note out of the blue, which implies they have at least one acquisition with a current partner in mind.

Capcom is run by morons though, if it wasn't for RE fans rebuying multiple versions of the same game they would be fucked.

I think Captroll is more likely to buy Ninja Theory.

You can't write a better ending.

 

[TheOddOne]

MS will not buy any big studios for a while, their start-ups still have to be developed.

 

[[Nintex]]

MS will not buy any big studios for a while, their start-ups still have to be developed.

I'm not sure, I can imagine them picking up Saber after Halo Anniversary, Harmonix or Double Fine if they feel they need to expand but Double Fine might not want that.

 

[MrCookiepants]

I guarantee that isn't the case anymore. Most of their first party games have pushed at least 2 million copies sold. Sony does not have a Halo or a Mario. It's that simple.

This is so funny. Why is Halo considered to be on Mario's level when Mario Kart Wii and NSMB Wii are sitting at 25 million+ sold worldwide and only one Halo game has ever barely crossed 10 million?

 

[TheOddOne]

I'm not sure, I can imagine them picking up Saber after Halo Anniversary, Harmonix or Double Fine if they feel they need to expand but Double Fine might not want that.

I could see a the reason behind buying Harmonix, but then again it not be such a wise choice because the profits from all platforms are higher then going first party. A long publishing deal? Would make sense.

Saber was hired because of the graphics engine, the rest was 343i work.

Double Fine seems to be fine being independent, they reap profit by being multiplatform. Seems like a bad fit.

 

[Pooya]

I think Captroll is more likely to buy Ninja Theory.

Nope, Ninja Theory is in UK, everyone is pulling out of UK due to tax and overall high dev cost.
Slant Six is in Vancouver, they already have Blue Castle there, if they want to expand it SS is a good buy, they likely can get government help + tax incentives too in Canada.

 

[walking fiend]

ratchet & clank won't sell because it's part of a series that has been declining since 2004 (which is frustrating as hell for me), but rayman should do okay due to the audience being there. most people will get kirby for their four-player family platformer game, but if people get that before christmas and still need another game (or want TWO or THREE games, as what usually happens), rayman will probably fill that gap.

plus the wii is the home for the family game market anyway. it was keeping those awful tony hawk games alive even after the audiences on the other consoles disappeared.

RM:O will probably sell better on HD consoles (not by a wide margin after sometime). But anyway, I really doubt it reaching even 100K combined, it'll probably sell more like 50K in the november and I am a bit kind.

 

[[Nintex]]

I could see a the reason behind buying Harmonix, but then again it not be such a wise choice because the profits from all platforms are higher then going first party. A long publishing deal? Would make sense.

Saber was hired because of the graphics engine, the rest was 343i work.

Double Fine seems to be fine being independent, they reap profit by being multiplatform. Seems like a bad fit.

For Microsoft it's not about being a 'good fit' or a 'bad fit' they would buy Team ICO from Sony if at all possible when new management comes in with a great new bold plan. That's kinda why everything fell apart with their earlier buy outs. Ed Fries build up first party studios with 'some plan' in mind. But he left and Microsoft had some management shifts and the market changed so whatever plan Fries had when he bought that studio... well it's no longer relevant so they own a studio and are like: "What do we do with these guys in this overly expensive farm building in the middle of nowhere of which some employees haven't worked on a shipped game since 2005?".

Mattrick finally seems to the guy that'll stick with and run the Xbox division for a good while to finish what he started but if Kinect bombed he would've probably been replaced by someone else at this point. But he thinks Twisted Pixel is part of his strategy, he'll buy them, get replaced in 3 years and in 8 years some manager is looking at Twisted Pixel thinking: "Why the hell did we buy them again?"

 

[AniHawk]

RM:O will probably sell better on HD consoles. And really doubt it reaching even 100K combined, it'll probably sell more like 50K.

depends how it's marketed. or if it's marketed. it's hard to pinpoint where the userbase is too, since rayman 1 did best on the psx, rayman 2 did the best on the n64, and rayman 3 did the best on the ps2 (as far as i can tell with my limited info). i think it'll mostly come down to who wants to play a 2d family platforming game, and while lbp has that, the audience for lbp is considerably smaller than the audience for nsmbw.

 

[Jadedx]

I'm not sure, I can imagine them picking up Saber after Halo Anniversary, Harmonix or Double Fine if they feel they need to expand but Double Fine might not want that.

If MS buys doublefine they HAVE TO force them to make Psychonauts 2 and a successor to Full Throttle.

 

[[Nintex]]

If MS buys doublefine they HAVE TO force them to make Psychonauts 2 and a successor to Full Throttle.

You mean prototypes for those will leak on the internet after half the studio leaves and Microsoft greenlits Sesame Street sequels?

 

[RiotPelaaja]

By and large Sony sells quite a bit better in Europe than the US, but franchises that have never been very popular here in Europe like SOCOM and Resistance really dont do great. Nobody here expects Twisted Metal or Starhawk to do any huge numbers in Europe.

Ever Sony dev I talk to tends to say (in the US) that Microsoft's marketing is so much better than Sony's, but there's a simple reason. Sony has a large slate of first party games, whereas Microsoft only has Halo and Gears of War. They dont push Forza, Kinect titles or Alan Wake anywhere near the way they have pushed Halo and Gears of War. GoW3 has been everywhere for the past six months - just everywhere.

To me, Sony should be pushing Uncharted 3 like Rockstar pushed LA Noire and Red Dead Redemption, but they dont have the money nor the resources, which is frustrating to say the least.

 

[walking fiend]

depends how it's marketed. or if it's marketed. it's hard to pinpoint where the userbase is too, since rayman 1 did best on the psx, rayman 2 did the best on the n64, and rayman 3 did the best on the ps2 (as far as i can tell with my limited info). i think it'll mostly come down to who wants to play a 2d family platforming game, and while lbp has that, the audience for lbp is considerably smaller than the audience for nsmbw.

I doubt it being marketed enough to in the remaining month for it to do much in november, though it may continue to sell after that, esp. on Wii.

 

[M.D]

Someone should make a meme

Sony - Spend tens of millions of dollars to make games, don't advertise them.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

I doubt it being marketed enough to in the remaining month for it to do much in november, though it may continue to sell after that, esp. on Wii.

Ubisoft will spend all their marketing dollars on AssCreed, just like every year.

 

[Loudninja]

By and large Sony sells quite a bit better in Europe than the US, but franchises that have never been very popular here in Europe like SOCOM and Resistance really dont do great. Nobody here expects Twisted Metal or Starhawk to do any huge numbers in Europe.

Ever Sony dev I talk to tends to say (in the US) that Microsoft's marketing is so much better than Sony's, but there's a simple reason. Sony has a large slate of first party games, whereas Microsoft only has Halo and Gears of War. They dont push Forza, Kinect titles or Alan Wake anywhere near the way they have pushed Halo and Gears of War. GoW3 has been everywhere for the past six months - just everywhere.

To me, Sony should be pushing Uncharted 3 like Rockstar pushed LA Noire and Red Dead Redemption, but they dont have the money nor the resources, which is frustrating to say the least.

IG themselves said many of their sales come of European territories.

Also Uncharted 3 will have the biggest marketing campaign every for a Sony title in the UK.
http://www.mcvuk.com/retail-biz/recommended/read/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-2/086493

 

[WinFonda]

After heavy bundling maybe. Just about all of Sony's first party titles debut at under 300k in the NPD and then fall out of the charts completely.

Nah. Sony didn't have a greatest hits line earlier on. Their software has more legs now.

 

[Averon]

I'm sorry but Rayman: Origins have "bomb" written all over it. No way will it get the attention and marketing it deserves in November where it's up against CoD, Skyrim, Skyward Sword, Uncharted 3 and Ass Creed:Revelations. Those games will be sucking all of the oxygen out of the room, and games like Origins and Saints Row 3 will be choking for air. Ubisoft should either delay it to January or convert it to a digital download, as it was originally suppose to be.