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[CazTGG]

While Toronto police officers won't be attending this year's Pride parade in uniform, they're invited to march south of the border instead.

The Gay Officers Action League, based in New York, sent a letter to the Toronto police on Friday, inviting officers to attend the New York City Pride March on June 25 — the same day as Toronto's Pride Parade...

In an email to CBC Toronto, a Pride Toronto spokesperson said they will not be commenting on the invitation.

But in a statement released earlier this month, the organization stressed that "LGBTQ+ police officers and their allies are not banned from the parade" and can march with community groups, the City of Toronto, or create their own group.

"We are simply requesting that their participation not include the following elements: uniform, weapons, and vehicles," the statement continued.

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-police-ny-pride-invite-1.4126973

Fuck the police if old.

 

[yanipheonu]

That's... an interesting wrinkle to the situation.

One wonders how Toronto's BLM answers that.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Lol the fucking NYPD because yeah when faced with accusations of racial bias the NYPD is totally the people I'd want to associate myself with.

 

[CazTGG]

Lol the fucking NYPD because yeah when faced with accusations of racial bias the NYPD is totally the people I'd want to associate myself with.

I can just imagine Trump tweeting about this: "Our NYPD boys are the best, so good that Canada's officers want to hang with them. Beautiful in blue!

 

[numble]

Lol the fucking NYPD because yeah when faced with accusations of racial bias the NYPD is totally the people I'd want to associate myself with.

Where is the NYPD involved?

 

[Fliesen]

I'm confused by what's happening here.

Pride Toronto doesn't want LGBT cops to attend the parade in uniform. - which they (the cops) would like to do, right?
So GOAL tells them they're free to join the NYC parade, in uniform.

What's the reason that Pride Toronto doesn't want uniformed cops?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Where is the NYPD involved?

The guy who made the invite is ya know part of the NYPD

 

[Madness]

That's... an interesting wrinkle to the situation.

One wonders how Toronto's BLM answers that.

One has to wonder why the Toronto chapter of BLM even has so much say over the Toronto Pride Parade that is organized by Pride Toronto and has been so for over 25+ years since the early 1980's.

But it is what it is. The fact that LGBT Toronto police officers are asked by the NYC pride parade to participate in full uniform, vehicles, and yet Pride Toronto still won't allow them to is crazy.

 

[McDougles]

What's the reason that Pride Toronto doesn't want uniformed cops?

Because BLM Toronto doesn't want them there.

Pride Toronto invited BLM Toronto as their guest of honor last year, and in return, BLM Toronto stopped the 2016 parade in progress to force Pride Toronto to sign a document agreeing to their demands that police are to be removed from future events.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Sorry but I don't think this police ban is working out well, and both Pride and BLM are losing a lot of goodwill by keeping this ban in place thereby hurting their own cause. I hope they sit down with the police and work something out before the parade.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I'm confused by what's happening here.

Pride Toronto doesn't want LGBT cops to attend the parade in uniform. - which they (the cops) would like to do, right?
So GOAL tells them they're free to join the NYC parade, in uniform.

What's the reason that Pride Toronto doesn't want uniformed cops?

human rights violations on their demographic from uniformed cops

 

[excelsiorlef]

One has to wonder why the Toronto chapter of BLM even has so much say over the Toronto Pride Parade that is organized by Pride Toronto and has been so for over 25+ years since the early 1980's.

They don't... they raised their issues and TO Pride agreed...

Once again you know that many members of BLM Toronto are ya know LGBTQ+ as well.

 

[The Faceless Master]

One has to wonder why the Toronto chapter of BLM even has so much say over the Toronto Pride Parade that is organized by Pride Toronto and has been so for over 25+ years since the early 1980's.

But it is what it is. The fact that LGBT Toronto police officers are asked by the NYC pride parade to participate in full uniform, vehicles, and yet Pride Toronto still won't allow them to is crazy.

becvause people can be LGBTQ+ AND also Black

 

[excelsiorlef]

But I mean seriously when accused of racial bias marching hand in hand with a Police Department that is notoriously attached to racially profiling black folk is such a tone deaf way to reinforce the accusations.

BLM TO: Toronto PD has issues profiling blacl folk, especially black queer folk

Toronto PD: Fine then we'll go march with the NY fucking PD. That'll show ya.

BLM TO: QED.

 

[numble]

The guy who made the invite is ya know part of the NYPD

The guy who made the invite is William Shepard, who is not part of the NYPD.

 

[CazTGG]

One has to wonder why the Toronto chapter of BLM even has so much say over the Toronto Pride Parade that is organized by Pride Toronto and has been so for over 25+ years since the early 1980's.

They...don't? They made some proposals for Pride to adopt last year, all of which they voted on and accepted. Also, just because something has existed for a while doesn't mean there weren't problems before.

But it is what it is. The fact that LGBT Toronto police officers are asked by the NYC pride parade to participate in full uniform, vehicles, and yet Pride Toronto still won't allow them to is crazy.

This, I can agree with. I admit I don't know much about the NYPD's history of racial and/or LGBTQ+ discrimination, but I can't imagine it's better than the folks behind Project Marie, so it just goes to show toxic police culture transcends borders.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The guy who made the invite is William Shepard, who is not part of the NYPD.

"The invitation was extended because we felt they were being excluded from the Pride festivities in Toronto, and we fought very hard over a very long period of time here in New York City to have the right to march in uniform," said Brian Downey, president of the Gay Officers Action League.

Detective Brian Downey, president of the Gay Officers Action League

http://www.nypress.com/local-news/20160622/the-police-lgbtq-divide#sthash.cCQoEt13.dpuf

 

[Madness]

They don't... they raised their issues and TO Pride agreed...

Once again you know that many members of BLM Toronto are ya know LGBTQ+ as well.

They essentually forced the shutdown of the parade until a list of demands was publicly met. When there was massive outcry and talk of boycotts, they backtracked to say LGBT officers cam participate but no uniforms, vehicles, or OPP sigils.

But I mean seriously when accused of racial bias marching hand in hand with a Police Department that is notoriously attached to racially profiling black folk is such a tone deaf way to reinforce the accusations.

BLM TO: Toronto PD has issues profiling blacl folk, especially black queer folk

Toronto PD: Fine then we'll go march with the NY fucking PD. That'll show ya.

BLM TO: QED.

That isn't what happened. Re-read the article.

BLM Toronto: Either you flat out ban Toronto PD and OPP officers from the Parade or it won't contiue.

Toronto LGBT officers: Fine we won't participate in the parade.

Pride Toronto: No no please participate but leave your vehicles, uniforms and anything identifying you as police off of floats or your person.

Toronto LGBT Officers: No.

New York Gay Officers Action League: We extend an invitation to march in the NY Price Parades in full uniforms as guests.

Toronto LGBT officers: Delighted to, considering offer.

You are completely misconstruing everything. This isn't the US or the issues the US has.

 

[firehawk12]

Considering instances of police profiling and racism in NYC, I can't imagine the optics of going to a pride parade there in uniform being all that great. Particularly if it's meant as some form of protest against BLM Toronto or the Toronto parade.

 

[CazTGG]

That isn't what happened. Re-read the article.

BLM Toronto: Either you flat out ban Toronto PD and OPP officers from the Parade or it won't contiue.

Toronto LGBT officers: Fine we won't participate in the parade.

Pride Toronto: No no please participate but leave your vehicles, uniforms and anything identifying you as police off of floats oe your person.

Toronto LGBT Officers: No.

New York Gay Officers Action League: We extend an invitation to march in the NY Price Parades in full uniforms as guests.

Toronto LGBT officers: Delighted to, considering officer.

You are completely misconstruing everything. This isn't the US or the issues the US has.

You know, it helps to actually know the content of what you're telling someone else to re-read: BLM TO is only mentioned once and it's in the following paragraph:

Pride Toronto voted to remove uniformed officers and police floats from future parades during its annual general meeting in January following a request made by Black Lives Matter Toronto, which brought the 2016 Pride parade to a brief halt until top Pride executives agreed to a list of demands.

Pride made the decision months after BLM TO's protest, and with a vote no less. They can still attend the parade, just not with a uniform on or any weapons.

 

[excelsiorlef]

You are completely misconstruing everything. This isn't the US or the issues the US has.

This isn't the US but Toronto PD still have issues with racial bias and you know saying this isn't the US while defending Toronto PD going to the US to march alongside US NYPD officers all because they were asked not to wear uniforms and weapons while they march is hardly an effective way to say "This isn't the US"

 

[yanipheonu]

The drama seems to have eclipsed any real message to be had at this point.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The drama seems to have eclipsed any real message to be had at this point.

Blame the Police...

They're the ones tripping over themselves to make this a disaster.

Calls to defund Pride
Calls to march with the NYPD

You couldn't fuck this up harder if they tried.

 

[numble]

http://www.nypress.com/local-news/20160622/the-police-lgbtq-divide#sthash.cCQoEt13.dpuf

He is speaking to the reporter, but the invite came from William Shepard.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...d-to-march-in-new-york-city-pride-parade.html

William Shepard, the executive director of GOAL, sent a letter to Toronto police on May 19, requesting permission for officers to march in uniform along with members of the NYPD and the NYPD marching band and colour guard.

Shepard said they’d been monitoring the situation in Toronto since last year’s Pride parade.

Being able to march in uniform is important to the NYPD, he said, because until 1997, officers were unable to do so.

“We actually had to sue in the United States federal court in 1997 for the right to march in the NYPD uniforms in New York City Pride,” he said.

GOAL sued the NYPD in 1997:
http://www.upi.com/Archives/1996/04/02/NYC-gay-police-charge-discrimination/9613828421200/

Gay and lesbian police in New York City Tuesday filed a discrimination suit in federal court against the police department and Mayor Rudolph Giuliani. The Gay Officers Action League, representing about 1,000 members, charged in a 20-page complaint filed before Judge Lewis Kaplan in the Southern District of New York that they have been denied privileges routinely granted to other fraternal groups recognized by the police department.

The suit said police officials will not allow a police contingent to march in the Gay Pride Parade, and stonewalled an application to hold a related celebration of gay contributions to the police force at police headquarters.

I don't know why you think a group that sued the NYPD for discrimination should be considered representative of the NYPD.

 

[excelsiorlef]

He is speaking to the reporter, but the invite came from William Shepard.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...d-to-march-in-new-york-city-pride-parade.html



GOAL sued the NYPD in 1997:
http://www.upi.com/Archives/1996/04/02/NYC-gay-police-charge-discrimination/9613828421200/



I don't know why you think a group that sued the NYPD for discrimination should be considered representative of the NYPD.

The person I quoted is the President of the group...

And who are they going to march alongside? The NYPD.

You can’t disassociate this from the NYPD... come on.

 

[numble]

The person I quoted is the President of the group...

And who are they going to march alongside? The NYPD.

The person that made the invite is ya know not part of the NYPD.

They will be marching with a group that sued the NYPD and Rudy Giuliani for discrimination against gay officers by not allowing them to march in uniform.

 

[Madness]

You know, it helps to actually know the content of what you're telling someone else to re-read: BLM TO is only mentioned once and it's in the following paragraph:

Pride made the decision months after BLM TO's protest, and with a vote no less. They can still attend the parade, just not with a uniform on or any weapons.

They accepted at the Parade, the ensuing outcry in the months after is what caused them to adopt the new policies. The parade went off wothout a hitch for decades. They are LGBT police officers who want to wear their uniform as they have the past 25 years or drive their vehicles.

This isn't the US but Toronto PD still have issues with racial bias and you know saying this isn't the US while defending Toronto PD going to the US to march alongside US NYPD officers all because they were asked not to wear uniforms and weapons while they march is hardly an effective way to say "This isn't the US"

Yes Toronto PD has racial bias issues, in fact probably more against the native or first nations populations, indo-canadians, etc. But they are LGBT officers who want to participate in a Pride Parade they have participated in for decades. They were invited by fellow gay officers in NY to march with them. The only optics you're seeing is police, they shouldn't participate and you are completely ignoring that they are primarily LGBT police or LGBT ally police who also want to represent their job.

You're making it seem like they are daily killing or discriminating LGBT people, people of colour in Ontario. Heck the premier of Ontario is a Lesbian. There are provincial and federal oversight ombudsman, human rights courts and tribunals in each and every province. Don't try and act like the issues of US police and US BLM are in amy way reflected even remotely on the same level here. In fact, they even were forced to stop carding after Ontarios human rights tribunals found there could be violations.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The person that made the invite is ya know not part of the NYPD.

They will be marching with a group that sued the NYPD and Rudy Giuliani for discrimination against gay officers by not allowing them to march in uniform.

Who will they be marching with... what uniforms will they be wearing?

LGBT Cops don't become not part of the NYPD just because they are LGBT.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yes Toronto PD has racial bias issues, in fact probably more against the native or first nations populations, indo-canadians, etc. But they are LGBT officers who want to participate in a Pride Parade they have participated in for decades. They were invited by fellow gay officers in NY to march with them. The only optics you're seeing is police, they shouldn't participate and you are completely ignoring that they are primarily LGBT police or LGBT ally police who also want to represent their job.

You're making it seem like they are daily killing or discriminating LGBT people, people of colour in Ontario. Heck the premier of Ontario is a Lesbian. There are provincial and federal oversight ombudsman, human rights courts and tribunals in each and every province. Don't try and act like the issues of US police and US BLM are in amy way reflected even remotely on the same level here. In fact, they even were forced to stop carding after Ontarios human rights tribunals found there could be violations.

I've said nothing of the sort. The bar isn't so low that simply not killing minorities is enough.

Key word is they were forced... they being the police by someone not the police

And they weren't forced to stop just reduce

Rule doesn't go far enough, says BLMTO

But Sandy Hudson, co-founder of Black Lives Matter Toronto, said the new rule on carding doesn't go far enough.

"Where these rules apply — and where they don't — doesn't change anything about carding," she said. "A police officer can always say they are investigating a particular crime."

Hudson says she and other members of Black Lives Matter would prefer to see an outright ban on carding in Toronto and across Ontario.

"Our position is that the regulation doesn't ban carding at all, but instead gives a roadmap as to what is an acceptable form of carding according to the province," she said.

Ban doesn't apply during traffic stops, arrests

The Ontario government said it believes it is the first jurisdiction in Canada to set out what it calls "clear and consistent" rules for "voluntary" interactions between the police and public when police are seeking identifying information.

The rule applies if an officer asks the person for identifying information or to see an identifying document while:

Looking into suspicious activities;
Gathering intelligence;
Investigating possible criminal activity.
The rule does not apply if police ask for identifying information or to see an identifying document while:

Doing a traffic stop;
Arresting or detaining someone;
Executing a warrant;
Investigating a specific crime.
The regulation also will also establish training, data management and reporting requirements about the collection of identifying information. The ban on carding is mandatory for all Ontario police services.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/carding-ontario-police-government-ban-1.3918134

And all their previous data is still retained so all the old carding still is usable.



The Toronto PD could have negotiated, could have tried march this year sans Uniform/weapons/cars and worked towards something for the future.

Instead they played total victim, called for the defunding of pride and now will go march with members of the NYPD.

 

[numble]

Who will they be marching with... what uniforms will they be wearing?

LGBT Cops don't become not part of the NYPD just because they are LGBT.

I think a group that files civil rights lawsuits against the NYPD is not reflective of the NYPD as a whole. You wouldn't say that any random NYPD officer is likely to file such a lawsuit, right?

 

[excelsiorlef]

I think a group that files civil rights lawsuits against the NYPD is not reflective of the NYPD as a whole. You wouldn't say that any random NYPD officer is likely to file such a lawsuit, right?

You can't simultaneously wear the NYPD uniform and not represent the NYPD at the same time.

Toronto PD regardless of who invited them will still be marching in uniform with NYPD members also in uniform.

 

[Christhor]

Glad they get to parade for a good cause.

 

[CazTGG]

They accepted at the Parade, the ensuing outcry in the months after is what caused them to adopt the new policies. The parade went off wothout a hitch for decades. They are LGBT police officers who want to wear their uniform as they have the past 25 years or drive their vehicles.

The Canadian government has been attempting to make reparations for Aboriginals/First Nations due to the horrible treatment they received for over a century. That doesn't change how abysmal those efforts have and continue to be. Just because something has good intentions and has gone on for a while does not excuse the underlying issues that cause grief for a given community in Canada.

Yes Toronto PD has racial bias issues, in fact probably more against the native or first nations populations, indo-canadians, etc. But they are LGBT officers who want to participate in a Pride Parade they have participated in for decades. They were invited by fellow gay officers in NY to march with them. The only optics you're seeing is police, they shouldn't participate and you are completely ignoring that they are primarily LGBT police or LGBT ally police who also want to represent their job.

Good news: Police could still attend Pride if they wanted to! In spite of this, they said no, called for the defunding of Pride and RSVP'd the NYPD's invitation to their own event.

But sure, they deserve a float so they can have pictures taken for a PR boost as they, as an institution, plan out the next Project Marie.

You're making it seem like they are daily killing or discriminating LGBT people, people of colour in Ontario. Heck the premier of Ontario is a Lesbian. There are provincial and federal oversight ombudsman, human rights courts and tribunals in each and every province. Don't try and act like the issues of US police and US BLM are in amy way reflected even remotely on the same level here. In fact, they even were forced to stop carding after Ontarios human rights tribunals found there could be violations.

Leaving aside how much people hate Wynne in Ontario (not because of her orientation though i'm sure there are some bigoted folks who do hate her because of that or her banning conversion therapy), this some Fox News levels of twisting facts and fake news. Carding was not banned and the data obtained from it is still shared between various groups like the RCMP. People like Abdirahman Abdi and Andrew Loku are killed with no reliable accountability for the officer responsible given the SIU's ineffective operations and the support from their fellow officers...the latter of which results in some truly distasteful actions. Not being as bad as the United States in terms of how brutally the police oppress the LGBTQ+ community and/or people of color is not an accomplishment, it's a sign that we have just as much work to do in addressing the toxic nature that constitutes police culture and the actions that said culture results in.

Blame the Police...

They're the ones tripping over themselves to make this a disaster.

Calls to defund Pride
Calls to march with the NYPD

You couldn't fuck this up harder if they tried.

But guys, we've gotta reach out and understand *their side* when they're the ones causing this division in the first place!

 

[IrishNinja]

Sorry but I don't think this police ban is working out well, and both Pride and BLM are losing a lot of goodwill by keeping this ban in place thereby hurting their own cause. I hope they sit down with the police and work something out before the parade.

yeah think of all those valuable allies they're losing here #theoptics

Blame the Police...

They're the ones tripping over themselves to make this a disaster.

Calls to defund Pride
Calls to march with the NYPD

You couldn't fuck this up harder if they tried.

amen

 

[numble]

You can't simultaneously wear the NYPD uniform and not represent the NYPD at the same time.

Toronto PD regardless of who invited them will still be marching in uniform with NYPD members also in uniform.

So based on your logic, when the NYPD officers sued the NYPD for discrimination of civil rights, they were representing the NYPD, and we should expect that the NYPD represents suing police departments for civil rights?

 

[excelsiorlef]

So based on your logic, when the NYPD officers sued the NYPD for discrimination of civil rights, they were representing the NYPD, and we should expect that the NYPD represents suing police departments for civil rights?

What will the New York Cops be wearing in the parade?

 

[numble]

What will the New York Cops be wearing in the parade?

The uniforms that they won the right to wear in a civil rights lawsuit when they sued the NYPD that tried to forbid them from wearing them.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The uniforms that they won the right to wear in a civil rights lawsuit when they sued the NYPD that tried to forbid them from wearing them.

Now I see the parallel you are trying to draw but you understand the difference between that lawsuit and this situation yes?

 

[numble]

Now I see the parallel you are trying to draw but you understand the difference between that lawsuit and this situation yes?

Where did I try to draw a parallel or try to compare it to this situation?

I am simply addressing your claim that GOAL is representative of the NYPD as an organization because they won the right to wear uniforms in pride parades by suing the NYPD for discrimination of their civil rights. I don't think the logic works.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Where did I try to draw a parallel or try to compare it to this situation?

I am simply addressing your claim that GOAL is representative of the NYPD as an organization because they won the right to wear uniforms in pride parades by suing the NYPD for discrimination of their civil rights. I don't think the logic works.

I really am moving beyond the organization... (even if it is partially made up of ya know NYPD officers)

I'm talking about in the parade who will be marching... when they wear the uniform they represent the NYPD.

Faced with racial profiling accusations marching alongside members of the NYPD is not how I'd try to argue against those accusations if I were Toronto PD.

And I certainly wouldn't say this in face of criticisms about racial profiling if I were the Toronto Police Association President

I think it’s the right way to do things, he said, adding, “It’s sad that Toronto can’t be that progressive and New York has to show us the way again.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...d-to-march-in-new-york-city-pride-parade.html

 

[Rembrandt]

Cool.


Let's wait and see how the TOPD reacts. It'll be a good gauge of who they actually represent.

 

[firehawk12]

I really am moving beyond the organization... (even if it is partially made up of ya know NYPD officers)

I'm talking about in the parade who will be marching... when they wear the uniform they represent the NYPD.

Faced with racial profiling accusations marching alongside members of the NYPD is not how I'd try to argue against those accusations if I were Toronto PD.

And I certainly wouldn't say this in face of criticisms about racial profiling if I were the Toronto Police Association President


https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...de-parade.html

Jesus Christ, doubling down on this shit. I mean, if you were going to do this, at least pick a more "friendly" police department that hasn't been in the news for murdering and profiling black men.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Cool.


Let's wait and see how the TOPD reacts. It'll be a good gauge of who they actually represent.

Toronto police union 'delighted' by invitation to march in New York's Pride parade — in uniform

That's the actual headline from the OP's link

McCormack said he's spoken to members of the force's LBGTQ Internal Support Network, who are "honoured" by the invite, and said the union will be working to coordinate logistics and support officers hoping to make the trip.

They're all in.

 

[Brinbe]

LOL NYPD... not a good look at all.

 

[MarionCB]

I've got a real "respect ma authoritay!" vibe from the Toronto police throughout this whole thing. No working with people, no talking, no compromise, just give us everything we want or we'll fuck everything up. Marching with the NYPD is the ultimate fuck you in all this and really caps it off.

 

[entremet]

Do the Toronto police have issues like American police departments? BLM Toronto seems very off base with their requests.

Not a fan of this at all.

 

[Angelus Errare]

One has to wonder why the Toronto chapter of BLM even has so much say over the Toronto Pride Parade that is organized by Pride Toronto and has been so for over 25+ years since the early 1980's.

But it is what it is. The fact that LGBT Toronto police officers are asked by the NYC pride parade to participate in full uniform, vehicles, and yet Pride Toronto still won't allow them to is crazy.

It's not really that crazy at all, Pride Toronto's higher ups are PoC, Pride NYC's are white. I'd argue Pride Toronto's largest group are people of color, where as NYC Pride are white.

Thus you naturally see police treated differently between the two groups. White people whether they're straight or LGBT aren't discriminated against by the police at anywhere near the rate as PoC, so it's not shocking that PoC aren't going to be too friendly with police nor would they tolerate them being there.

Shocking I know.

Do the Toronto police have issues like American police departments? BLM Toronto seems very off base with their requests.

Not a fan of this at all.

Yes. Canada isn't the utopia for black/people of color that American media makes it out to be. Racial bias in police transcend borders.

 

[Journeywalker]

They don't... they raised their issues and TO Pride agreed...

Once again you know that many members of BLM Toronto are ya know LGBTQ+ as well.

I'm conflicted here, but we can't forget the intersection rule. Someone can be LGBTQ+, support BLM, and be a police officer. Should that person not be able to represent themselves as all three?

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'm conflicted here, but we can't forget the intersection rule. Someone can be LGBTQ+, support BLM, and be a police officer. Should that person not be able to represent themselves as all three?

A cop who supports BLM probably wouldn't lose their shit about being asked to not wear their police uniform in the parade...

 

[neojubei]

One has to wonder why the Toronto chapter of BLM even has so much say over the Toronto Pride Parade that is organized by Pride Toronto and has been so for over 25+ years since the early 1980's.

But it is what it is. The fact that LGBT Toronto police officers are asked by the NYC pride parade to participate in full uniform, vehicles, and yet Pride Toronto still won't allow them to is crazy.

Wow. It's not like there are gay Black people that exist.