Haven't you asked this in s previous thread on this issue and had it explained to you?
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NYC Invites Toronto Police To Pride Parade - In Uniform
- Thread starter CazTGG
- Start date
I don't know what I'm talking about, but (blind judgement).
airmangataosenai
Member
Good on them. It was a dumb move to treat them that way on the Toronto organizers part. The whole thing has been horrible PR for thrn through and through.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Lol they can go to the NYC parade if they want. Definitely will help their optics by leaving Canada to march with the police department that strangles the life outta unarmed black men. Really shows you care.
The hell are you talking about?
Toronto very specifically requested that gay cops wanting to attend their gay pride parade not wear their uniform.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Here's how messed up the NYPD is racially. A few years ago a black NYPD plainclothes cop was responding to a crime and was running with his gun out. An NYPD police car, in traffic, sees "Blackguygun!!". The officers exit the vehicle and kill their fellow "brother" on sight, no questions asked.
This is the PD that's supposed to make this Toronto Pride situation better?
This is the PD that's supposed to make this Toronto Pride situation better?
Race issues and pretty much anything else, NYPD is heinous. They will jack you up and ask questions never.
But when it comes to LGBQ issues, this city tends to be pretty great.
Is it a rule that you need to be horribly racist and violent to be a cop? Because sometimes it feels that way.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
There was a Pew poll posted here that interviewed 8k officers nationwide. They found white cops to be more racist than the general white public and found that they get more callous/insensitive as time goes on at a faster rate than other cops.
I know a few officers on the force and racial profiling and quotas are the unwritten rules. People who had good intentions for signing up with the NYPD and they're assigned to troll black neighborhoods for QOL violations instead of fighting crime. It's sad and nothing will change.
As for LGBT issues, though the City supports them I'm assuming the environment within the NYPD may not be all that friendly for gay officers. This whole Toronto thing is a mess. Not all LGBTQ folks are safe from the wrath of PDs.
Yeah, it's definitely a systemic issue that's extremely fucked for the foreseeable future. The core of police culture and training would need to be changed wholesale.
I'm sure being a gay cop in the NYPD is still hell for the most part. The city is just more forward thinking so at least there are gay police groups and coalitions to support them.
Journeywalker
Member
Of course they wouldn't lose their shit. They'd probably understand. But it reinforces the idea that supporters of BLM cannot find commonality with police officers under the shared LGBTQ+ experience. It props up the fallacy that those groups are mutually exclusive.
excelsiorlef
Member
Why do you need your gun, your uniform and your car to find commanality
You know what actually fucks up finding commonality?
Taking your ball home, demanding Pride be defunded and then planning to march with the NYPD and calling them progressive leading the way again...
Sorry just some shit i read in the reddit threads, probably should have specified.
Journeywalker
Member
I understand the gun and the vehicle, but a uniform is not a sign of aggression.
The Toronto police are asshats for taking their ball home and calling for defunding Pride, but I still find it concerning that BLM ignores the possibilty of an intersection between supporters of BLM, LGBTQ+, and police. It's especially cocerning at an event that is about a shared LGBTQ+ experience.
excelsiorlef
Member
The uniform is a symbol of the institution that targets and profiles them.
What's your solution
yanipheonu
Member
Is there any way that disallowing cops genuinely wanting to show solidarity with the gay community will help solve the racial bias present in the police?
I'm just not buying the premise. Seems like you want to foster solidarity, not be against it.
Though its possible there's a method behind it in regards to protest I'm not seeing. Is there some reachable goal BLM is trying to reach by this action?
I'm just not buying the premise. Seems like you want to foster solidarity, not be against it.
Though its possible there's a method behind it in regards to protest I'm not seeing. Is there some reachable goal BLM is trying to reach by this action?
I mean they can go do this if they want to. It's the uniform and weapon that's disallowed.
The question is it genuine? Obviously for many of the officers on a personal level it absolutely is. For the departments as a whole though, its just an easy photo op/PR move to show they care even though as an institution they don't give a rats ass(The low arrest ratio for trans attacks/murders, etc).
Its easy to point to it and say that they(pride/blm groups) are being devisive, but I see the bigger picture. They gotta earn solidarity not just show up for the parade then its back to business as usual.
yanipheonu
Member
My main question is whether they're trying to actually effect some sort of positive change (policy changes in the police/government perhaps) or is just obstruction for the sake of obstruction?
I just worry the latter sounds like discrimination based on occupation, rather than anything constructive.
Journeywalker
Member
There probably is no solution because there is too much mistrust.
The solution is pretty simple. No uniforms.
Apparently wearing the uniforms is worth more than solidarity for them.
tedrotheredro
Member
If you guys think the NYPD is bad, I'm not sure what American police department you think is good.
-Stop & Frisks have been dramatically reduced
-Very diverse police force
-Community policing a top priority
-Marijuana possession is basically a ticket
-The Eric Garner death was not only in Staten Island (basically NJ), but was condemned from the top, including the mayor.
Compare that to an average rural town or Southern city and it's night and day.
That's not to say there's no inherent bias or prejudice, but sadly that infects all of law enforcement, no matter the location.
-Stop & Frisks have been dramatically reduced
-Very diverse police force
-Community policing a top priority
-Marijuana possession is basically a ticket
-The Eric Garner death was not only in Staten Island (basically NJ), but was condemned from the top, including the mayor.
Compare that to an average rural town or Southern city and it's night and day.
That's not to say there's no inherent bias or prejudice, but sadly that infects all of law enforcement, no matter the location.
excelsiorlef
Member
None.
IrishNinja
Member
what was the result of that, though? and how did the rank-and-file respond to de blasio after he made the softest of statements?
Journeywalker
Member
Is there any way in which a police officer could be anything other than an oppressor?
So...was that officer suspended without pay? No. Held accountable for their actions?
No. Has anything substantial been done to actually address the systemic racism within the police force instead of the officer equivalent of thoughts and prayers? No.
Again, not being as bad as, say, Ferguson's officers doesn't make the NYPD good, nor does the location make their actions irrelevant. It happened in New York at the hands of a NYPD officer and is a reflection of the NYPD.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
"NYPD - we kill less minorities than cops in the South!"
Stop and frisk and QOL policing are essentially the same thing and no, the latter that hasn't gone away. There was a big report on the nypd ultimately concluding that their broken windows policing methods do not work, damage the relationship between community and police, and are biased towards black and brown folk.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ken-windows-policing-work-new-report-says-no/
Wuthering_Heights
Banned
When the NYPD is being more inclusive than the people who are supposed to be all about inclusiveness, that's kinda sad.
The Faceless Master
Member
they need to be more inclusive when they're murdering civilians
The issue I see is Toronto had no problem for like 20+ years where they allow LGBT police to walk in the parades proudly showing their uniform. It was an inclusive thing, and helping to encourage diverse sexuality and acceptance in what is notoriously considered a more hetero/masculine dominated profession. The optics look bad for them to suddenly say you can't show you're a LGBT police anymore after so many years. I get the BLM side of the debate, too, but it feels rather messy way of going about it considering the parades historical police support.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-Class-Action-Suit-NYPD-Police-370717981.html
http://nypost.com/2017/01/23/nyc-to-pay-75m-in-nypd-summons-settlement/
Or I can just bring up how stop and frisk didn't actually end or how they steal so much through civil forfeiture that they literally cannot keep track of it all and make it next to impossible for people to get their money back.
The solution is simple, just hide a part of your identity because it makes me uncomfortable. Sounds like a great plan!
D
Deleted member 284
Unconfirmed Member
Hey man, this 'identity' fucks with a ton of marginalized people. Let's make them feel more comfortable. Sound familiar?
Hate group? really?
The Faceless Master
Member
Toronto PD has the body count but the oppressed are the terrorists?
There is some dumb things one of the founders claims (one being the PM is a white supremacist) and the other allegedly stole boat loads on money from YorkU....hate group is not the write wording. All the demands are pretty reasonable imo
I needed a good laugh thanks.
People are still forgetting that the pride staff voted on it and the majority of them said yes. At the end of the day it's what they wanted.
She was kicked out of BLM-TO.
She was kicked out of BLM-TO.
Oh I wasnt sure...I get why people arent interested in police in uniform I dont see why they just dont show up in casual clothing. Seems like a bit of an over reaction
LinkAndEpona
Banned
Good, this makes me very happy and hopefully they are grateful, regardless if they accept or not. To be clear, the police shouldn't have been kicked out of the Toronto parade in the fucking first place.
You should read this before ignorantly sounding off: http://www.pridetoronto.com/2017/05/07/pride-toronto-statement-police-participation-parade/
You... know what "BLM Toronto" did last year, right? It was in very poor taste.
And "hate group" does not mean "terrorist". I am not agreeing with either label, for the record.
Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
Fucking Toronto council and the stupid fucking organizers. Bow down to such petty bullshit. I know BLM is trying to make their voices heard, but this is the absolute wrong way to do it.
Either of you care to explain what was wrong with a peaceful protest that had reasonable demands of Pride TO, of which the organization voted on and agreed to follow for this year's event?
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
What's the right way for a group of marginalized people to speak up against an oppressive institution?
LinkAndEpona
Banned
This doesn't make it at all okay, this is exclusionary which is practically the opposite of what the parade is about.