Well let's make an estimate. Canada is the second largest land mass and it's 2012 defense budget was 22 billion, Russia the largest land mass spent 90 billion and they have a hard time with keeping up infastructue, so let's say AT LEAST quadruple what's spent now.
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NYT: Newest Scam in US Health Care, Taking Advantage of ER Patients Unable to Say No.
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Well let's make an estimate. Canada is the second largest land mass and it's 2012 defense budget was 22 billion, Russia the largest land mass spent 90 billion and they have a hard time with keeping up infastructue, so let's say AT LEAST quadruple what's spent now.
It's depressing at times. I blame the dumber half of our country.
PseudoKirby
Banned
at least you have insurance... richie rich.
EatinOlives
Member
When I was in grade school I once went to the emergency room for food poisoning that caused me to throw up over 14 times. The fucks took so long to take me in that my body eventually solved the issue on its own, but not before the nurse insisted I get two completely unnecessary x-rays done. By the time they were going to give me something it had been several hours and I was perfectly fine. The doctor himself never even saw me.
That certainly didn't stop them from charging my parents $1500 for doing absolutely nothing. If I hadn't refused the injection it would've been even more. The ER that day wasn't even crowded.
That certainly didn't stop them from charging my parents $1500 for doing absolutely nothing. If I hadn't refused the injection it would've been even more. The ER that day wasn't even crowded.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
The defense budget has nothing to do with Health Care.
I'm not going to go back and forth you can keep your ignorance. But we lead on many things like free speech, abortion rights, criminal rights, religious rights, minimum wage. Oh and not having a queen.
The US now has UHC what we don't have is a socialized system to pay for it.
I'm not going to go back and forth you can keep your ignorance. But we lead on many things like free speech, abortion rights, criminal rights, religious rights, minimum wage. Oh and not having a queen.
Coriolanus
Banned
Even ignoring that large swathes of it are icy wastelands which shouldnt be actively protected, it would still be far less than the US.
Your point?
Gods, that doesnt even make sense. Canada has exactly one land neighbour, their budget shouldnt even be remotely comparable to russias. Fuck, from the population size standpoint it makes even less sense.
GahfhuagaGH
I'm covered under my wife's insurance.
I have a knee injury and I'm currently putting off getting it looked at because even with my deductible met for the year, I'll still probably owe a couple hundred bucks for an MRI to determine what's wrong.
That's in addition to not getting paid time off or sick leave to have an appointment, so that's at least a couple unpaid hours of work I'll have to take.
And that doesn't even take surgery into account should I need it...
We really do have a terrible healthcare system... and I'm one of the lucky ones with coverage.
I have a knee injury and I'm currently putting off getting it looked at because even with my deductible met for the year, I'll still probably owe a couple hundred bucks for an MRI to determine what's wrong.
That's in addition to not getting paid time off or sick leave to have an appointment, so that's at least a couple unpaid hours of work I'll have to take.
And that doesn't even take surgery into account should I need it...
We really do have a terrible healthcare system... and I'm one of the lucky ones with coverage.
iwannaseethereceipts.gifAPKmetsfan said:
There isn't. But Americans like to defend not spending the cost on healthcare (even though it costs your economy more in it's current state) as it needs to spend that cost on military (even though you significantly overspend on military expenditures).
You can call it pointless all you want since it was pointless to bring, "HAHA Canada's better." One pointless argument creates another.
It is. I was training in the hospital this Saturday, and the instructor showed us a pile of screws that were to be used in a joint replacement. She then said that each little screw cost over $3000! I asked how that could be possible, and her response?
"Our supplier is the only company that makes these things, so we have to pay what they charge us."
It's highway robbery! No wonder that countless Americans are bankrupting themselves due to medical costs.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Hooooooooooly fuck.
This thread is exactly why I tell my countrymen we need to fight with nail and teeth the current onslaught against our healthcare system.
This, having a free and total health care provider regardless of circumstance is an immense relief.
What really has struck me as odd about the NHS is that it was established in the aftermath of WW2. Britain at the time was completely fucking broke, most of the large cities were still piles of rubble and we had immense debts from waging a total war, yet we still did perhaps the greatest thing we have ever achieved. Peace of mind for a whole country, regardless of who you were.
Russia also have large swaths of ice, so it being less than the U.S. means nothing when it would still be A LOT more.
Coriolanus
Banned
And? How do you derive that if canada increases military expenditure by x, theyd then have to necessarily cut medical spending?
Fuck. Comparing canada to fucking russia, of all places, is making my head hurt. Might as well compare it to china too, would make as much sense.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
A big problem with the exploitative US system that is hostile towards the end customer, is that it instills a lot of FUD in the average citizen. Even when you personally haven't experienced one of the horror stories, you worry it could happen to you without warning. You will be one of the statistics filing for bankruptcy due to medical bills.
This fear filters down through every decision. People don't go to the doctor for preventive care, they remain at jobs they hate because of the employer's health coverage, etc. The entire system is slow grinding death and promotes a poorer quality of life for everyone, not just those without insurance.
It makes it infuriating when an American repeats some terrible story involving the national health care in another country failing some specific case and producing a bad outcome, in order to convince themselves how great they've got it with the Best Healthcare In the World. Many Americans can't imagine what it's like to live in a society where the doctor you meet at your point of contact with the system is not your adversary in a capitalistic zero sum game. They have at terrible case of Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to healthcare.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
"As more insurance plans contract with narrower networks of doctors to form offerings tailored to the Affordable Care Act, insurers have acquired greater leverage in cutting payments to physicians. While an insurer would have little power to drive a hard bargain with a major hospital that the company needs in its network, it can often pick and choose among physicians, excluding some or offering rates so low that many doctors say their practices are unsustainable."
This is a direct result of a rushed and not well thought out ACA.
This is a direct result of a rushed and not well thought out ACA.
PhantomHound
Banned
Why not use this Money? Long has my father, the President of The United States of America, kept the forces of Mordor at bay. By the blood of our people are your lands kept safe!
(Come on guys this is silly. Are we really fighting about defense and helthcare between two different countries. Shouldn't we just focus on the healthcare issues in america rather than bashing other countries.)
Well said.
Fine, if it won't effect anything why don't they do it? You actually want to be dependent on a foreign nation for that?
The Elite
BOSS
I chuckled. This is an appropriate comparison.
After dealing with the Canadian Health Care System I have to say it still has a lot of holes and issues. Getting treatment for my mother's chronic conditions has required a lot of pushing and nagging as no one wants to actually cover this under their health care budget. It's frustrating, especially for elderly.
Canada's health care system is adequate but I don't see the point in comparing it to the US System. There is no reason to think that our system is great just because it compares well to a non-existent system.
Let's go through each, as you guys really need to provide some actual facts to your statements.
Minimum Wage - The US is 13th, below nations like Canada, UK, Australia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country
Free Speech, Religious Rights - Hard to find data on each, but then world freedom index has the US at 46th, significantly below most western nations. Most western nations have constitutional declarations around religious freedom, not something unique to the US. Now try to be a practicing Muslim in Alabama vs Canada, and tell me what your religious freedom feels like.
Criminal Rights - The US is #2 in incarceration rate in the world - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate That is not a good sign for criminal rights.
Abortion Rights - Abortion was legalized in 1967 in the UK. You had Roe vs Wade in 1973 but it has been a grey area with state by state laws interfering constantly.
That is much sad bullshit. The US spends more than necessary on defense because it is profitable for some who influence policy. The US also spends a higher percentage of GDP on healthcare than many countries with UHC do, with worse outcomes, for the same reason.
Which means nothing, since I never said Canada had to spend as much as the U.S.
Random Painted HIghway
Member
An interesting read but nothing new in here, unfortunately. People are either too invested themselves or lack the fortitude to take these people/entities to task over these things. This machine is very difficult to take on. Frankly, a lot of these folks belong in jail for this bs, but much like the banking system, only the non essentials ever take real heat on these matters.
what the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING?
Seriously. Read what you posted. It makes no sense. "Well, you may take care of your citizens, but only because don't take care of ours and because we waste trillions on cool toys that go boom"
What the FUCK
I'd say it's half right. And I think we all know which half.
All that FREEDOM. Can't you smell it?
Get mad all you want, it has nothing to do with toys going "Boom" or wasting military money on defense which the US military defintely does. It has to do with what those toys afford you to get away with in Canada's budget.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Just another example of why we need a single-payer system. This should be fucking illegal. People need to wake the fuck up. Seriously.
LegendofLex
Member
The concept of networks is stupid.
I understand why they exist: insurance providers want a means of controlling costs, and requiring physicians and provider facilities to accept the reimbursement rates they deem acceptable helps them do this.
But the fact of the matter is that this creates a massive gap in insurer/doctor accountability, whereby it's now the patient's job to ensure that the care they receive is provided "in-network" - not simply their job to find someone who can provide the needed/covered services - and when it comes to actual emergencies and ongoing health problems you can never be fully in control of what you need or who provides it.
What seems like it should be healthy "competition" actually provides virtually no benefit to the customer, just more hoops to jump through.
I understand why they exist: insurance providers want a means of controlling costs, and requiring physicians and provider facilities to accept the reimbursement rates they deem acceptable helps them do this.
But the fact of the matter is that this creates a massive gap in insurer/doctor accountability, whereby it's now the patient's job to ensure that the care they receive is provided "in-network" - not simply their job to find someone who can provide the needed/covered services - and when it comes to actual emergencies and ongoing health problems you can never be fully in control of what you need or who provides it.
What seems like it should be healthy "competition" actually provides virtually no benefit to the customer, just more hoops to jump through.
Ok, you are just making stuff up at this point. Talk about ignorance.
It's annoying when they make those statements, and I come back with facts like 13th in minimum wage and no response at all.
Yeah, it's not in the minority type of thing. I've been fucked over by the system, as well as most people I know, in some way or another.
It really is nonsense. Sometimes when someone's national pride is hurt they start talking out of their ass.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
And yet our GDP per capita is around 10k more than yours. So...
can we quit this list warz bullshit already jesus christ.
.....and sometimes Canada's pride is when it's brought up.
Hell, you could expand on this all day.
Mandatory minimums, the war on drugs, racial profiling, the ubiquity of the death penalty.
I don't mean to dog-pile on the USA here; but the idea it's a world leader in things like minimum wage and criminal rights is too bizarre a sentiment to leave unchallenged.
AstroNut325
Member
This has happened to me! I'm partially thinking of switching to Kaiser for this. But the number of "in-network" hospitals for Kaiser is less than Blue Cross!
Edit:
LOL at the US leading civil rights, minimum wage, ect... not even close!
Edit:
LOL at the US leading civil rights, minimum wage, ect... not even close!
The US and Canada are arguably the two most secure nations in the world because of their geographical isolation. There is no reason why the US has to spend 6-7x what the next largest military spender does. There is no reason why the US should have 40-50% of the global military expenditures, particularly when our close allies have 25-33% themselves.
The US using the military as a money dump doesn't benefit Canadians, and it doesn't benefit Americans, either
Prophet Steve
Member
What the hell happened here?
Canada is also rich in resources and would be worth the effort to try if your defense was the same as it is now without another factor that comes into play. Although I agree the overspending of the U.S. defense budget is a major problem. No argument there.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
people dickwaving over which country is better, now with LIST WARZ
CharlieDigital
Banned
It's relevant to examine how other countries have successfully implemented what lobbyists, hospitals, insurance companies, practitioners, and policy makers keep telling us is financially or politically "impossible".
I don't see it as dick waving at all.
Muddled healthcare system is cool because of bombs and GDP per capita.
What list are you looking at?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
We are essentially tied.
Now let's get to the human factor of GDP per capita. Let's remove the upper class (10% of the population) and talk about the middle and lower class:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1284297/canadas-middle-class-most-prosperous-in-world-report/
Stuff like this makes me dread ever having to go to the ER. I just got insurnac from and employer instead of private and I've always been slow to comphetend all the rates terms etc. Now I'm worried about which hospital to go to in an emergency but also yelling myself to not stress over it.
LOL, wow. That should be illegal. And to make it so obvious? SMH.
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