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[GaimeGuy]

Canada is also rich in resources and would be worth the effort to try if your defense was the same as it is now without another factor that comes into play. Although I agree the overspending of the U.S. defense budget is a major problem. No argument there.

I AM AN AMERICAN. I AM CRITICIZING THE SHORTCOMINGS OF MY OWN COUNTRY.

The shortcomings staring us right in the fucking face, that the rest of the world is telling us "THIS IS HOW YOU FIX THAT PROBLEM," and that people like you continue to ignore or dismiss as not-problems.

It's frustrating to see us have more natural resources and economical power than any other nation yet still stuck with problems that most industrialized nations resolved before my parents (or even my grandparents) were born or during their very early childhood. the solutions are right there. They're right. Fucking. There.

 

[winjet81]

My daughter broke her ankle in Florida last January (we were vacationing from Canada), and I thought it made pretty reasonable sense that my insurer in Canada told me to go to a particular hospital for treatment. I figured that many hospitals in the US are ill-equipped to deal with out-of-country insurance issues, so, whatever.

Anyway, $3000 bill, paid for by my insurer in a matter of days.

I find it odd that Americans have the same restrictions in their own country... even in their own state.

 

[AstroNut325]

LOL, wow. That should be illegal. And to make it so obvious? SMH.

Agreed. But the people who do this also contribute heavily to PACs/Super PACs, and other lobbying entities to keep things like this. I should start a NeoGAF SuperPAC. Donations go towards bribing candidates to support universal single payer healthcare, and net neutrality.

 

[GaimeGuy]

My daughter broke her ankle in Florida last January (we were vacationing from Canada), and I thought it made pretty reasonable sense that my insurer in Canada told me to go to a particular hospital for treatment. I figured that many hospitals in the US are ill-equipped to deal with out-of-country insurance issues, so, whatever.

Anyway, $3000 bill, paid for by my insurer in a matter of days.

I find it odd that Americans have the same restrictions in their own country... even in their own state.

Because we pit insurers and hospitals against each other, so they end up with fragmented standards and policies. Which creates hurdles for consumers, extra layers of bureaucracy for the health industry, and benefits no one. But boy, it has that delicious feeling of "freedom!"

 

[CharlieDigital]

Agreed. But the people who do this also contribute heavily to PACs/Super PACs, and other lobbying entities to keep things like this. I should start a NeoGAF SuperPAC. Donations go towards bribing candidates to support universal single payer healthcare, and net neutrality.

It's weird because you would think that the insurance companies hate this practice as well and that insurance companies as a whole -- in addition to the US government -- would have more sway than physicians that are abusing the system like this.

 

[Jimothy]

I'm so fucking sick of this disgusting fucking country

 

[slit]

I AM AN AMERICAN. I AM CRITICIZING THE SHORTCOMINGS OF MY OWN COUNTRY.

The shortcomings staring us right in the fucking face, that the rest of the world is telling us "THIS IS HOW YOU FIX THAT PROBLEM," and that people like you continue to ignore or dismiss as not-problems.

It's frustrating to see us have more natural resources and economical power than any other nation yet still stuck with problems that most industrialized nations resolved before my parents (or even my grandparents) were born or during their very early childhood. the solutions are right there. They're right. Fucking. There.

FINE I MADE A MISTAKE.

I never said the U.S. had no problems as that would be completely absurd. I was pointing out external factors that allow others to live in relative peace, but continue to try and put words in my mouth.

 

[TheOMan]

Agreed. But the people who do this also contribute heavily to PACs/Super PACs, and other lobbying entities to keep things like this. I should start a NeoGAF SuperPAC. Donations go towards bribing candidates to support universal single payer healthcare, and net neutrality.

This...is actually a good idea.

 

[EatinOlives]

Nationwide reform only happens when it's more profitable to do so. If it's more profitable to keep the "old way" it'll stick around for as long as it's profitable, even if it bumfucks everyone in every socioeconomic position, and even if it's a "problem" that has been solved long, long ago.

It's for that reason that I firmly believe there will never be nationalized healthcare. There's waaaaay too many rich people in powerful positions making a killing on the way the system is right now.

 

[Parch]

I'd flat out refuse to pay. Fuck them. Fuck their policies. Fuck their bullshit scam.

I'm pretty sure I would feel this way too if it happened to me.

A family pays a small fortune for healthcare insurance believing that they're covered, and nonsense like this happens on top of some pretty high deductible costs. It's crazy how much people pay for healthcare and still have to pay more because of "extras" and scams. I fully sympathize with people who would be furious about this.

 

[AstroNut325]

It's weird because you would think that the insurance companies hate this practice as well and that insurance companies as a whole -- in addition to the US government -- would have more sway than physicians that are abusing the system like this.

They're ok with it because it makes them a lot of money ($117K for an assistant doc?!?!?!). And any effort to curb such practices will be met with massive media campaigns claiming that Congressmen "XYZ" is socialist thug who wants to see the destruction of the almighty, and glorious United States.

 

[Plinko]

The fact that half the people in our country would simply say, "Well, free market! Can't do anything about it!" in response to this sickens me.

 

[Dai101]

Blame Republicans and the millions of idiots who voted for them. The current ACA was the compromise

Welcome to America: Fuck You, Got Mine™

Now that's a slogan worth of a t-shirt. Move your ass I <3 NY shirts!

 

[Argyle]

They're ok with it because it makes them a lot of money ($117K for an assistant doc?!?!?!). And any effort to curb such practices will be met with massive media campaigns claiming that Congressmen "XYZ" is socialist thug who wants to see the destruction of the almighty, and glorious United States.

Actually the insurance companies also hate it because they are the ones paying out the $117k in that case...

 

[Angelus Errare]

I'm not going to go back and forth you can keep your ignorance. But we lead on many things like free speech, abortion rights, criminal rights, religious rights, minimum wage. Oh and not having a queen.

Wait...we're talking about America right?

Now that's a slogan worth of a t-shirt. Move your ass I <3 NY shirts!

I wouldn't be shocked to see people wear it in earnest.

 

[outunderthestars]

It's so mind-boggling that a place like the states can't get a good health care system going

Too much money to be made.

 

[danwarb]

Blame Republicans and the millions of idiots who voted for them. The current ACA was the compromise

Welcome to America: Fuck You, Got Mine™

Obama couldn't have pushed through a public option in his first term, if he'd wanted to?

 

[ezrarh]

Agreed. But the people who do this also contribute heavily to PACs/Super PACs, and other lobbying entities to keep things like this. I should start a NeoGAF SuperPAC. Donations go towards bribing candidates to support universal single payer healthcare, and net neutrality.

We do have candidates that support universal healthcare. There just aren't enough of them. Don't think neogaf has enough money to get enough of them in power.

 

[MonorailCat]

As faulty as our health care in Germany may be .. at least I always know I don't have to pay anything if I visit the ER or the hospital or any doctor (except some dentist work). Even if there comes a time where I am jobless.
Beeing afraid of going to the ER because of ridiculous bills sounds horrible.

 

[CharlieDigital]

They're ok with it because it makes them a lot of money ($117K for an assistant doc?!?!?!). And any effort to curb such practices will be met with massive media campaigns claiming that Congressmen "XYZ" is socialist thug who wants to see the destruction of the almighty, and glorious United States.

But the insurance companies are the ones paying the $117K in this case so they should be lobbying to outlaw this practice by cash-grabbing physicians. To be clear, in the NYT article, the insurance company ended up paying the physician.

I would imagine that the insurance companies have more power if they get together than the unscrupulous physicians do.

Obama couldn't have pushed through a public option in his first term, if he'd wanted to?

Not likely given how difficult it was to even push through ACA, a bill that doesn't fundamentally change our system of private insurance aside from expanding coverage availability, adding a bit more competition in the form of marketplaces, and some other relatively minor changes. ACA still fundamentally funnels money into private insurers and doesn't change how many Americans get insurance (through employers or social programs).

ACA, a system that relies heavily on for-profit companies, is still under attack by Republicans and there is pending litigation at all levels of the judicial system.

Getting a public option through is kind of a non-starter to me; I'm not sure why anyone thinks it would be possible in his first term. I think the country would have to go through some sort of upheaval or collapse of the system before such a paradigm shift would be possible.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

Obama couldn't have pushed through a public option in his first term, if he'd wanted to?

No, too many dens worried about reelection, barely went through as it was.

 

[KingGondo]

We do have candidates that support universal healthcare. There just aren't enough of them. Don't think neogaf has enough money to get enough of them in power.

We might not, but EviLore does.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Let's go through each, as you guys really need to provide some actual facts to your statements.

Minimum Wage - The US is 13th, below nations like Canada, UK, Australia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country

Free Speech, Religious Rights - Hard to find data on each, but then world freedom index has the US at 46th, significantly below most western nations. Most western nations have constitutional declarations around religious freedom, not something unique to the US. Now try to be a practicing Muslim in Alabama vs Canada, and tell me what your religious freedom feels like.

Criminal Rights - The US is #2 in incarceration rate in the world - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate That is not a good sign for criminal rights.

Abortion Rights - Abortion was legalized in 1967 in the UK. You had Roe vs Wade in 1973 but it has been a grey area with state by state laws interfering constantly.

Interesting how you switch metrics randomly.

Dates when you want, single stats some times, feelings with others.

 

[Jimothy]

I'd flat out refuse to pay. Fuck them. Fuck their policies. Fuck their bullshit scam.

Don't pay cuz you're already broke as fuck. Get sent to collections. Collection agency fucks your credit. Can't qualify for credit cards or loans. End up even more broke. America.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Interesting how you switch metrics randomly.

Dates when you want, single stats some times, feelings with others.

All of his points are backed with third party data and concrete dates.

Do you want to offer a counterpoint based on some data and concrete points?

 

[Jenov]

This is such bullshit.

Tabris
flaming jackass

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Wait...we're talking about America right?
.

Yes,

We have abortion by request, robust protections in the bill of rights (not always honored and subject to differences), and have had a minimum wage since 1938.

I was specifically responding to his date thing.

 

[Moosichu]

The story gets bizarre right here for me (from UK). I can't imagine being in a situation where I need urgent medical care and having to drive past hospitals to get to one where my insurance is accepted. It's messed up.

Get used to it because we will have to do it soon.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Yes,

We have abortion by request, robust protections in the bill of rights (not always honored and subject to differences), and have had a minimum wage since 1938.

I was specifically responding to his date thing.

This is very misleading given how hotly contested abortion is right now across the country, especially in the mid-west with states like Texas enacting laws that have shut down many practicing clinics by creating artificial restrictions on the facilities required to practice such procedures. Even in the much more liberal north east, the SCOTUS struck down the 30ft buffer zone around abortion clinics meant to make it more accessible to those seeking help.

While it's true, you could argue, that it's always "by request" as long as you are willing and financially able to far enough, it is as unfounded as those who claim that we have a totally fluid labor market and people should just move to where the jobs are. This ignores the reality that there are people that simply cannot pick up and drive 200 miles of fly to another state to have a safe, clinical abortion procedure.

 

[mercenar1e]

Still though, this is horse shit. $5000 for stitches?

i went to the emergency room once and the paramedics charged me $500 for oxygen which i didn't need or use.

 

[slit]

Because we pit insurers and hospitals against each other, so they end up with fragmented standards and policies. Which creates hurdles for consumers, extra layers of bureaucracy for the health industry, and benefits no one. But boy, it has that delicious feeling of "freedom!"

Not even true anymore. The trend now is healthcare organization will be integrated delivery systems. Meaning that the insurance company OWNS the hospital or vice versa. That in itself is creates monoploy problems. Where hospital systems are refusing to accept each others insurance as they see them as competitors.

 

[Azih]

Urhm slit? Canada and Canadians spend LESS on healthcare than America and Americans do. Universal health care systems are CHEAPER than what you guys have and provide better outcomes.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...ions-spend-so-much-less-on-healthcare/374576/

The talk of 'not having to spend on defense' or whatever nonsense is completely irrelevant.

 

[abrack08]

My girlfriend had kidney stones, she was in so much pain she vomited. I took her to the emergency room but it turned out it had already passed, she started to feel better pretty much right after we got there.

We were there for a couple hours, they basically said "Yeah, it looks like it was a kidney stone, but it's gone now" and sent us home. Then then we got a $2k bill (she was still on her father's insurance plan). Fucking ridiculous. That was in Austin too, like one of the examples in the article.

 

[Jimothy]

Interesting how you switch metrics randomly.

Dates when you want, single stats some times, feelings with others.

Interesting how you say a country that imprisons more people than anywhere else on earth is a world leader in criminal rights.

 

[slit]

Urhm slit? Canada and Canadians spend LESS on healthcare than America and Americans do. Universal health care systems are CHEAPER than what you guys have and provide better outcomes.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...ions-spend-so-much-less-on-healthcare/374576/

The talk of 'not having to spend on defense' or whatever nonsense is completely irrelevant.

Well maybe to you but not to me, since if it was so trivial defense spending in Canada would have increased portionately to it's size. I never claimed the U.S. didn't spend more on healthcare. Also, if you think it would be as easy to implement universal healthcare in the U.S. as it would in Canada, you better guess again, just from a logistics point of view. Of course that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, but it will be a very hard process.

 

[AwRy108]

Had to take my 4-year-old to the ER when we were out of town (only 3 hours from home) b/c she had a body temp. of 105.9F. She occupied a room for a few hours, had a chest x-ray, and was seen by a physician; and she was diagnosed with strep throat and early stages of bronchitis.

She received some standard antibiotics; the wife and I received over $1500 in medical bills AFTER the insurance coverage--which we pay over $300 a month for--had processed the bills.

I am grateful that my daughter is okay; I am grateful that I could afford this bills; and I am grateful that we have access to the best healthcare in the world.

I am NOT grateful that physicians are allowed to take advantage of the system--$1500 in unexpected bills would've had a very negative effect on the finances of many Americans, especially people making minimum wage, which is less than $8 / hr.

 

[wildfire]

US treats it's military like an industry as it has often been an economic fuel for your nation.

Ironically we don't in certain ways. Our military industrial complex used to be making a lot more money up until the end of 90s. Then both Bush and Obama started enacting policies that made us uncompetitive with other nations in selling military hardware and training services. Your overall point stands but I just wanted to add some nuance to it because these days we don't treat it the same way we used to up until 2000.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

All of his points are backed with third party data and concrete dates.

Do you want to offer a counterpoint based on some data and concrete points?

UK doesn't have abortion on request. US has since roe v wade. Over 30 years

Codified criminal suspect rights since 1776.

UK's censorship laws as well as libel laws are notorious.

Again this is just to counter the "US trailing the world dragged down by their stupid idiots" nonsense

 

[Jenov]

Yes,

We have abortion by request, robust protections in the bill of rights (not always honored and subject to differences), and have had a minimum wage since 1938.

I was specifically responding to his date thing.

A problem with comparing country vs country is the vast population and diversity differences that are usually not accounted for. It's much easier to say well such and such country with a homogeneous 20 million population was better at THIS form of social reform vs a country with a huge, diverse 320 million population. Out of countries that are as large land wise, as diverse, and as populated as the US, the US isn't so terribly bad. Healthcare is definitely a problem though, and the ACA will hopefully be the first of many steps towards addressing it.

 

[Nephtis]

Just so you guys know, this is never gonna change. Only a cataclysmic event would ever force the hands of government to step in and either make laws to fix this shit, or nationalize it. Even then, during said cataclysm, politicians will drag their feet and stall as much as possible.

ACA barely made a dent (and I'm being generous), even with all these people that are now insured. Come next election, I wouldn't be surprised if most of this was undone. And if it isn't, and if we start moving in the right direction, you can bet insurance companies and medical equipment providers are going to do their damn best to bleed you dry for as much money as they can get. Things are gonna be a loooot worse before it gets better.

And I'm looking at this with the glass half full.

 

[CharlieDigital]

UK doesn't have abortion on request. US has since roe v wade. Over 30 years

Codified criminal suspect rights since 1776.

UK's censorship laws as well as libel laws are notorious.

Again this is just to counter the "US trailing the world dragged down by their stupid idiots" nonsense

As an American, I can only say that I agree with his sentiment that we are a nation that isn't able to move forward on a lot of common sense changes in legislation because half of the country believes that Fox News is an actual, reputable source of news.

You can make a content that the UK doesn't have "abortion on request", but this is a minor part of a set of services that make up a functioning, accessible, affordable, sustainable healthcare system.

And to me, having that would be much more valuable than having met a single metric of "abortion on request".

 

[jmood88]

I'd flat out refuse to pay. Fuck them. Fuck their policies. Fuck their bullshit scam.

It's easy to say this shit when it's a hypothetical, it's completely different when you're in an emergency room for a serious condition that you need to have dealt with.

 

[teruterubozu]

Newest? What? ER is the most basic of the basic scams. Ever see a bill for an ambulance ride?

 

[GaimeGuy]

UK's censorship laws as well as libel laws are notorious.

Meanwhile in the US I can harass the shit out of people at a funeral.

 

[danwarb]

UK doesn't have abortion on request. US has since roe v wade. Over 30 years

Codified criminal suspect rights since 1776.

UK's censorship laws as well as libel laws are notorious.

Again this is just to counter the "US trailing the world dragged down by their stupid idiots" nonsense

UK is a better place if you need an abortion these days. Just go to your GP (any GP), it's covered by the NHS, along with counciling.

 

[Dunlop]

Well maybe to you but not to me, since if it was so trivial defense spending in Canada would have increased portionately to it's size. I never claimed the U.S. didn't spend more on healthcare. Also, if you think it would be as easy to implement universal healthcare in the U.S. as it would in Canada, you better guess again, just from a logistics point of view. Of course that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, but it will be a very hard process.

Again what does defense spending have to do with this topic?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(Canada)
Medicare wasn't introduced over night here, it it's hard for any country to make such a major change

 

[gutter_trash]

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

I thought my home country, UK had like one of the higher poverty rates, which helps with NHC, funny enough. I like living here, but there are huge problems we need to fix.

 

[Syph Medwes]

overrated
I live in vancouver and waiting times suck lol

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Interesting how you say a country that imprisons more people than anywhere else on earth is a world leader in criminal rights.

I should have used suspected criminal rights.

Our crimes are ridiculous. The process to get convicted has strong protections (especially with warren court decisions).