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[torre_avenue]

Per the NYT:

Dr. Ann McKee, a neuropathologist, has examined the brains of 202 deceased football players. A broad survey of her findings was published on Tuesday in The Journal of the American Medical Association.

Of the 202 players, 111 of them played in the N.F.L. — and 110 of those were found to have chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or C.T.E., the degenerative disease believed to be caused by repeated blows to the head.

The brains here are from players who died as young as 23 and as old as 89. And they are from every position on the field — quarterbacks, running backs and linebackers, and even a place-kicker and a punter.

The set of players posthumously tested by Dr. McKee is far from a random sample of N.F.L. retirees. “There’s a tremendous selection bias,” she has cautioned, noting that many families have donated brains specifically because the former player showed symptoms of C.T.E.

But 110 positives remain significant scientific evidence of an N.F.L. player’s risk of developing C.T.E., which can be diagnosed only after death. About 1,300 former players have died since the B.U. group began examining brains. So even if every one of the other 1,200 players would have tested negative — which even the heartiest skeptics would agree could not possibly be the case — the minimum C.T.E. prevalence would be close to 9 percent, vastly higher than in the general population.

In addition to the 111 brains from those who played in the N.F.L., researchers also examined brains from the Canadian Football League, semi-professional players, college players and high school players. Of the 202 brains studied, 87 percent were found to have C.T.E. The study found that the high school players had mild cases, while college and professional players showed more severe effects. But even those with mild cases exhibited cognitive, mood and behavioral symptoms.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

So what's the next step here?

 

[datbapple]

So what's the next step here?

Better helmets, better rules, or R.I.P. kids getting in to football (speaking as a parent that played football)

 

[Kyne]

So what's the next step here?

make it into a hollywood movie to promote the issue.

wait.

 

[Maxim726X]

So what's the next step here?

Parents who give a shit about their children don't allow them to play football.

The sport will survive, but I would imagine that gifted young athletes will choose a different sport.

As for the sport currently? Nothing. It's a violent game by nature, and the players want it that way. At least now the information is out in the open and they can make the choice to play.

 

[Netherscourge]

So what's the next step here?

Flag football.

No more tackling.

 

[chadskin]

So what's the next step here?

We replace the NFL with the KFL

 

[M.W.]

Two hand touch imminent.

 

[Plinko]

Better helmets, better rules, or R.I.P. kids getting in to football (speaking as a parent that played football)

Exactly. Either they come to some sort of technological breakthrough in helmet technology or more drastic measures have to be taken.

I'll say this: Everyone laughed at Mike Ditka like 8 years ago when he said that if you want to fix the problem, you get rid of facemasks. The thing is, though: he's right. Get rid of facemasks and the speed drops, players do a better job of avoiding headshots, and players learn to tackle better.

If something isn't done, football eventually dies because the amount of kids going into the sport fades.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

So what's the next step here?

Nothing will change. NFL hates bad publicity. They have been sweeping this under the rug for decades.

 

[Zee_truly evil]

Has a similar study ever been done with rugby? I wonder how the findings will be like.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

Exactly. Either they come to some sort of technological breakthrough in helmet technology or more drastic measures have to be taken.

I'll say this: Everyone laughed at Mike Ditka like 8 years ago when he said that if you want to fix the problem, you get rid of facemasks. The thing is, though: he's right. Get rid of facemasks and the speed drops, players do a better job of avoiding headshots, and players learn to tackle better.

If something isn't done, football eventually dies because the amount of kids going into the sport fades.

Yeah "Better Helmets" by itself is one of the reasons we're here. Helmets got better, and the game adjusted to them, making it even more brutal.

 

[gamechanger87]

Parents who give a shit about their children don't allow them to play football.

The sport will survive, but I would imagine that gifted young athletes will choose a different sport.

As for the sport currently? Nothing. It's a violent game by nature, and the players want it that way. At least now the information is out in the open and they can make the choice to play.

Gifted young athletes will only chose a different sport if there is money there.

 

[darkinstinct]

Better helmets, better rules, or R.I.P. kids getting in to football (speaking as a parent that played football)

Maybe no helmets would be better? Protection goes both ways, it's there to protect you from harm but it also enforces to go above what you would normally do. Would be nice if similar stats would be available for Rugby players.

 

[CHC]

Even if isn't a truly random sample that number on its own is enough to make this a pretty major issue.

 

[Maxim726X]

Yeah "Better Helmets" by itself is one of the reasons we're here. Helmets got better, and the game adjusted to them, making it even more brutal.

Yeah, it's a violent game by nature.

The sport will suffer, no question, but it will survive. Too much money to be made.

Gifted young athletes will only chose a different sport if there is money there.

Have you seen the amount of money being thrown around in the NBA and MLB these days?

I agree with your point in part, because honestly if you're an NFL lineman it's going to be hard to get a job in another professional sport... But the more athletic positions (WR, TE, RB) will see a talent drain.

 

[whytemyke]

The scary thing is-- how far down the line does this go? Does it get to high school players? Junior high? Pee wee?

I have a friend who played semi-pro, and we were talking. Basically he came to the conclusion that, every time one of us feels like punching walls or even just gets sad, how do we know it's our personality and not the result of concussions sustained playing football? So for that confusion for us, I can't imagine how bad it is for people that played big time college ball or in the NFL.

 

[Naudi]

Youth football #s continue to plummet... We are fielding almost half as many teams from 3rd to 8th this year that we did last year.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Parents who give a shit about their children don't allow them to play football.

The sport will survive, but I would imagine that gifted young athletes will choose a different sport.

As for the sport currently? Nothing. It's a violent game by nature, and the players want it that way. At least now the information is out in the open and they can make the choice to play.

That's the thing. I know football is getting the spotlight now, but does that mean other sports are not contributing? Football is certainly among the most violent, but it isn't the only contact/collision sport out there. For instance, I'd be interested in if hockey or lacrosse, rugby, etc. are affected too.

But as for the NFL, I do think the coverup was the big issue then. And all playing under that suppression of information should have recourse. But now it's one of those things in the open. People know it is dangerous and they know it can cause long-term health issues. Including brain issues. As long as people go in knowing that, I'm not sure I'm in favor of "banning" it or something similar.

 

[darkinstinct]

Flag football.

No more tackling.

I think real life capture the flag could be pretty damn awesome. Without the shooting of course, or maybe laser tag.

 

[Sephzilla]

Exactly. Either they come to some sort of technological breakthrough in helmet technology or more drastic measures have to be taken.

I'll say this: Everyone laughed at Mike Ditka like 8 years ago when he said that if you want to fix the problem, you get rid of facemasks. The thing is, though: he's right. Get rid of facemasks and the speed drops, players do a better job of avoiding headshots, and players learn to tackle better.

If something isn't done, football eventually dies because the amount of kids going into the sport fades.

I do agree with this. Part of the reason players hit so much harder these days, aside from athleticism obviously, is because they feel safer so the incentive to go for bigger and more dangerous hits is greater.

 

[Netherscourge]

It's ultimately up to the players.

They play football for the chance at making millions of dollars. The brutality of the sport is what makes it successful.

Risk-Reward

You want the millions? You have to willingly let your brain become mush.

The NFL can't force people to play football. All they can do is dangle that carrot.

 

[torre_avenue]

So what's the next step here?

For the scientists, it's developing a stronger link between football and CTE. Right now, their conclusion is basically "People who had signs of CTE ended up having CTE." If they can test the other 1300 brains for signs of CTE, they can get rid of the selection bias Dr. Mckee mentions and generate a stronger conclusion.

 

[Version 3.0]

So what's the next step here?

Straight to the point. I suppose the NFL would say they're already using better helmets and trying to minimize head hits. But the question needs to be answered by the the medical community: is that enough? Presumably the answer is no, so what else can be done?

Realistically, football isn't going away. It's at the height of its popularity. So, that being the case: better "concussion protocol"? Rules around that as well? Are there more medical steps that can be taken for active players?

The NFL and high profile football colleges have plenty of money to address this. Let's hope they make it a top priority.

 

[TS-08]

Youth football #s continue to plummet... We are fielding almost half as many teams from 3rd to 8th this year that we did last year.

Aren't numbers is youth sports plummeting in general though? I hear all the same things about little league baseball as well.

 

[Deepwater]

youth football plummets but if anything it makes the pipeline to the NFL a bit less clogged.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

Better helmets, better rules, or R.I.P. kids getting in to football (speaking as a parent that played football)

Guaranteed football with minors under 18 will be mandated flag football rules only within a decade. NFL as we know it will be out within 20-30 years.

 

[Naudi]

Aren't numbers is youth sports plummeting in general though? I hear all the same things about little league baseball as well.

Yeah I think you're right. But baseball and basketball for us is maintaining fine. We almost couldn't field a team for 2 different grade levels this year .

 

[Boke1879]

Yea something has to be done I'm just not sure what.

You got kids playing, then they go to high school and play, Then the lucky few play college ball and then a select few from their go to the pros, practice teams etc.

That's years of truama.

 

[erlim]

Yea something has to be done I'm just not sure what.

You got kids playing, then they go to high school and play, Then the lucky few play college ball and then a select few from their go to the pros, practice teams etc.

That's years of truama.

My two cousins played college ball and the rest of the family treats them like royalty. They seem to be fine.

 

[Netherscourge]

Videogames are the future. Hell, they are the here-and-now.

Madden NFL Football will replace actual football and the superstars of the future will be eSport players.

NFL teams will shift to hiring pro-videogame players.

No more injuries. No more pensions. No more lawsuits.

All the brutality will play out on an HDTV monitor. The worse that can happen to someone is that they get a callous on their thumb from the controller.

I would tell my kid to get into competitive eSports before I told him to get into actual NFL Football or even Ice Hockey, so far as the high impact sports go.

 

[jelly]

Has a similar study ever been done with rugby? I wonder how the findings will be like.

Not sure, I've heard dangerous heavy tackling at younger levels that has caused issues like paralysis etc.

I think the major difference is rugby players aren't using their head as a battering ram, that's the problem. Got a helmet, well that means I'm safe. Sprint and hit other dudes with my head. No wonder.

 

[Ivan 3414]

Anybody else notice the thread title is incredibly misleading?

They tested 202 players(not just 111) and 110 had CTE.
111 of those 202 players played for the NFL.

Edit: whoops, that's what I get for just skimming the op😶

 

[datbapple]

I do agree with this. Part of the reason players hit so much harder these days, aside from athleticism obviously, is because they feel safer so the incentive to go for bigger and more dangerous hits is greater.

Excellent point.

 

[TS-08]

Yeah I think you're right. But baseball and basketball for us is maintaining fine. We almost couldn't field a team for 2 different grade levels this year .

It might be that the decline has been sharper in the last couple of years for football than others. I would be surprised if recent years of CTE news isn't starting to show an effect on youth football. Wonder if other youth sports will see an increase as a result.

 

[Misha]

That's the thing. I know football is getting the spotlight now, but does that mean other sports are not contributing? Football is certainly among the most violent, but it isn't the only contact/collision sport out there. For instance, I'd be interested in if hockey or lacrosse, rugby, etc. are affected too.

But as for the NFL, I do think the coverup was the big issue then. And all playing under that suppression of information should have recourse. But now it's one of those things in the open. People know it is dangerous and they know it can cause long-term health issues. Including brain issues. As long as people go in knowing that, I'm not sure I'm in favor of "banning" it or something similar.

hockey is definitely an issue, especially for fighters) even better is you have the commissioner of the NHL claiming that CTE and concussions aren't related https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/27/sports/nhl-commissioner-gary-bettman-denies-cte-link.html

 

[droggg]

Youth football #s continue to plummet... We are fielding almost half as many teams from 3rd to 8th this year that we did last year.

My little brother is in high school and many surrounding towns now have to combine teams in order to field a full squad, compared to when I was in high school 10 years ago and some towns had so many kids that they needed 2 teams. Times are changing.

 

[gamechanger87]

A few things:

1. For those asking about removing facemasks and comparing to rugby, the stats aren't really great. Rugby has a lot of concussions. The biggest difference is that there is a larger focus on concussions in the NFL and there is an established protocol to check for concussions. If a rugby player gets knocked around and is dizzy and there is no protocol for checking for a concussion, then none gets recorded. The NFL is getting more stringent on this which is one of the main reasons you are seeing concussions go up. The more you check for concussions the more you will find them. This goes for all sports.

2. No helmet can prevent a concussion. They can reduce the chances of getting one by attempting to reduce the forces on the head, but it is impossible to do so.

3. The only way to reduce concussions is better training for the players. Learn to tackle correctly and remove the big hits. The NFL is attempting to do this with penalties, but college and HS coaches need to teach the kids how to tackle.

4. Football isn't going away. High school football numbers are flat (which is is the same with all team sports). Some parents are pulling their kids out of football, but a lot of that is sport specialization (year round lacrosse, soccer, baseball) and fewer multi sport players. If you check the stats you will see a similar trend in non-contact team sports. Also a lot of the parents pulling Timmy out of football weren't pulling the next great football player out of the game, most of these kids would wash out before high school.

5. Football is still the best way for a lot of these kids to get out of their life at home, get an education and potentially hit it big, and while the big player paydays exist you will still see a lot of kids playing high school and college football.

 

[Deepwater]

Anybody else notice the thread title is incredibly misleading?

They tested 202 players(not just 111) and 110 had CTE.
111 of those 202 players played for the NFL.

In addition to the 111 brains from those who played in the N.F.L., researchers also examined brains from the Canadian Football League, semi-professional players, college players and high school players. Of the 202 brains studied, 87 percent were found to have C.T.E. The study found that the high school players had mild cases, while college and professional players showed more severe effects. But even those with mild cases exhibited cognitive, mood and behavioral symptoms.

.

 

[Netherscourge]

Anybody else notice the thread title is incredibly misleading?

They tested 202 players(not just 111) and 110 had CTE.
111 of those 202 players played for the NFL.

...and out of those 111 players who played in the NFL, 110 of them had CTE.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

So hypothetically if we went to 2 hand touch or flags, wouldn't the whole playbook have to change? You can't have an offensive line and defensive line charging at eachother anymore. You'd have to count to 5 steamboat and then tag the QB out.

 

[gamechanger87]

Aren't numbers is youth sports plummeting in general though? I hear all the same things about little league baseball as well.

Correct and the stats bear this out. There is a lot more sports specialization. If your kid is great at baseball, why is he playing two other sports when he can play baseball year round and potentially get really good.

 

[wisdom0wl]

Young athletes would be better off trying to get to the NBA or MLB. The individual money is too good even if you're a decent rotation player.

 

[vacantseas]

Something needs to be done on the youth football level. I can't tell you how many 6 year old kids in my neighborhood are out on the local middle school field in the fall practicing for their leagues. Full pads and helmets. The parents are out there cheering their kids on. I highly doubt many parents know, nor care about the effect that could have on their kids.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Kids will probably just switch to basketball or baseball, where you can get paid tens of millions just to warm the bench. Chase that Mosgov money, y'all.

 

[gamechanger87]

Have you seen the amount of money being thrown around in the NBA and MLB these days?

I agree with your point in part, because honestly if you're an NFL lineman it's going to be hard to get a job in another professional sport... But the more athletic positions (WR, TE, RB) will see a talent drain.

Look at the number of players on an NBA squad or a baseball team versus a football team. Then add in international players. It is easier to "make" it in the NFL than to make it in the NBA or MLB. Those sports will keep players around for 20 years and most good players will spend their lives in the minors.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Better helmets, better rules, or R.I.P. kids getting in to football (speaking as a parent that played football)

Helmets really can't fix this. CTE is caused by repeated, relatively mild, trauma. It's not the big hits that cause it, it's the constant smaller collisions. No helmet is going to be able to sufficiently mitigate the impacts.

It's more possible that a nutritional supplement could solve the problem. When the brain is damaged it uses a specific type of protein to fix it. The problem is that the constant damage from football causes the brain to run out of it's prefered protein. It then starts using a different protein instead. It's that' less ideal protein that seems to cause CTE.

So giving people more of the good protein could solve the problem, but of course, to do that there would need to be a ton of research and the NFL is actively working to assure that the research that could save people won't happen.

 

[lightskintwin]

Young athletes would be better off trying to get to the NBA or MLB. The individual money is too good even if you're a decent rotation player.

The numbers favor the NFL. Shorter careers and larger rosters makes it easier to get in the NFL than it does the MLB and NBA. NBA being the most difficult out the 3.

Edit: Beaten

Look at the number of players on an NBA squad or a baseball team versus a football team. Then add in international players. It is easier to "make" it in the NFL than to make it in the NBA or MLB. Those sports will keep players around for 20 years and most good players will spend their lives in the minors.

 

[Easy_D]

We replace the NFL with the KFL

This would get me into sports

 

[mreddie]

Football is heading to choppy waters if this keeps up.