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[Plinko]

Yeah "Better Helmets" by itself is one of the reasons we're here. Helmets got better, and the game adjusted to them, making it even more brutal.

Yes, and the NFL needs to take a ton of blame here. They were really late in addressing the issue with penalties/etc. They dragged their feet for years.

 

[captjohnboyd]

I'd be curious to know the Rugby stats as well. Worked with a kid who played in high school then semi pro into his 20's and he went from a really smart, thoughtful but a little crazy, kid to a raging maniac by his mid 20's. Always thought it was odd given how smart he was and the speed of the change from relaxed kid to fights/anger issues all the time. I knew him well enough to know there weren't any issues at home causing the change

 

[gamechanger87]

The numbers favor the NFL. Shorter careers and larger rosters makes it easier to get in the NFL than it does the MLB and NBA. NBA being the most difficult out the 3.

Edit: Beaten

Correct. The NBA only has two rounds and most of those kids won't last. MLB draft is a waste as you essentially draft kids to make them play in the minors for 10 years making $30k a year.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

"Better helmets" will not solve this.

 

[mreddie]

"Better helmets" will not solve this.

Yeah, I don't see helmet tech advancing to cushion the blow.

 

[gamechanger87]

I'd be curious to know the Rugby stats as well. Worked with a kid who played in high school then semi pro into his 20's and he went from a really smart, thoughtful but a little crazy, kid to a raging maniac by his mid 20's. Always thought it was odd given how smart he was and the speed of the change from relaxed kid to fights/anger issues all the time. I knew him well enough to know there weren't any issues at home causing the change

Rugby's stats would likely be fairly similar. It just that there is a lot of money in football so the focus is there. Concussions are going up in the NFL because they are testing for them more now.

 

[Duxxy3]

I'm still curious why they switched from those larger shoulder pads to those smaller ones. To me it seemed like driving with your shoulder in the larger pads would be a little softer on the player getting hit.

 

[platocplx]

Yeah "Better Helmets" by itself is one of the reasons we're here. Helmets got better, and the game adjusted to them, making it even more brutal.

Its like how boxing got worse because of boxing gloves vs bare knuckles. It would seem that helmets have done more harm than good because people will want to launch themselves thinking the helmet provides protection when reality is they make people way more brutal. maybe wearing less protective helmets could reverse some head injuries.

Young athletes would be better off trying to get to the NBA or MLB. The individual money is too good even if you're a decent rotation player.

The NBA you literally need genetics in your favor (when it comes to height) to even have a shot. MLB i think has a great farm leauge system etc so there are a lot of people playing lower ranks but it usually takes longer to make the huge money. NFL sadly has a mix of larger rosters and it being okay to be avg height that makes it really attractive. The Game needs to change a lot. Most NFL careers are pretty damn short vs the reward unless you are highly skilled and a 1-3 round pick.

 

[GoodCoffeeJoey]

Anybody else notice the thread title is incredibly misleading?

They tested 202 players(not just 111) and 110 had CTE.
111 of those 202 players played for the NFL.

I thought that at first too, but the thread title is correct. Read the rest of the article, for all 202 brains 87% showed signs of CTE.

 

[The Illiterati]

We see how being a deadly braindead bloodsport has killed off boxing and MMA, so football is surely next.

 

[ratcliffja]

I think real life capture the flag could be pretty damn awesome. Without the shooting of course, or maybe laser tag.

You do know that real life capture the flag precedes video game capture the flag, right? It's a recess game like dodgeball.

 

[Nipo]

Football needs to change. At the very least we need to make it so high school and college age students aren't serving as a farm league and putting themselves at risk. Boxing used to be a big highschool and college sport and that died for simialr reasons

 

[bender]

Maybe no helmets would be better? Protection goes both ways, it's there to protect you from harm but it also enforces to go above what you would normally do. Would be nice if similar stats would be available for Rugby players.

I think no helmets would be worse. Hard skulls hitting hard skulls would still jostle the brain. I've always thought they should pad the exterior of the helmet as well as the interior. Helmet technology probably isn't going to solve this issue. The sport doesn't seem long for this world as you'd need remove tackling, and more importantly, all collisions on the field (goodbye o-line, d-line play) to alleviate the problem.

 

[outunderthestars]

So what's the next step here?

My wife is a clinical neuropsychologist who specializes in this area. She is considering leaving the clinical side to focus entirely on civil suit consultation. Legal firms have hundreds, if not thousands of cases in the filing stages against the NFL, NCAA, and even high school programs.

 

[Harrison Bergeron]

There is a lot of head trauma in rugby, however, the type of head shots are completely different for several reasons. Usually the biggest and most damaging shots come from incidental contact attempting to make a tackle or an accidental running into another player.

There is no blocking in rugby, so you don't get a lot of those impact where a player is unaware and gets blindsided, and also there is also no equivalent to the general repeated blows from offensive and defensive line engagement at the snap.

The other key thing is that it is illegal to outright "hit" in rugby, you have to make an attempt to wrap up with your arms. So a guy can't just charge in from fifteen yards, lower his shoulder, and blow up a ball carrier.

 

[lightskintwin]

The NBA you literally need genetics in your favor (when it comes to height) to even have a shot. MLB i think has a great farm leauge system etc so there are a lot of people playing lower ranks but it usually takes longer to make the huge money. NFL sadly has a mix of larger rosters and it being okay to be avg height that makes it really attractive. The Game needs to change a lot. Most NFL careers are pretty damn short vs the reward unless you are highly skilled and a 1-3 round pick.

The major thing is African Americans as a whole have lost interest in MLB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFFQkQ6Va3A

 

[Duxxy3]

Its like how boxing got worse because of boxing gloves vs bare knuckles. It would seem that helmets have done more harm than good because people will want to launch themselves thinking the helmet provides protection when reality is they make people way more brutal. maybe wearing less protective helmets could reverse some head injuries.



The NBA you literally need genetics in your favor (when it comes to height) to even have a shot. MLB i think has a great farm leauge system etc so there are a lot of people playing lower ranks but it usually takes longer to make the huge money. NFL sadly has a mix of larger rosters and it being okay to be avg height that makes it really attractive. The Game needs to change a lot. Most NFL careers are pretty damn short vs the reward unless you are highly skilled and a 1-3 round pick.

Football doesn't attract the best athletes, for sure. The NBA demands that you be tall and at the peak of athleticism. You need to be good with your hands and your feet. Soccer demands incredible stamina. Football... honestly some of the best players in the league aren't that good of athletes. Tom Brady is arguably the greatest QB of all time, but he is slow as fuck. He's really not a good athlete. He never would have done as well as he has in any other sport.

 

[lightskintwin]

Football doesn't attract the best athletes, for sure. The NBA demands that you be tall and at the peak of athleticism. You need to be good with your hands and your feet. Soccer demands incredible stamina. Football... honestly some of the best players in the league aren't that good of athletes. Tom Brady is arguably the greatest QB of all time, but he is slow as fuck. He's really not a good athlete. He never would have done as well as he has in any other sport.

You have no idea what you're talking about, because football does indeed attract some of the best athletes in the country.

 

[gamechanger87]

My wife is a clinical neuropsychologist who specializes in this area. She is considering leaving the clinical side to focus entirely on civil suit consultation. Legal firms have hundreds, if not thousands of cases in the filing stages against the NFL, NCAA, and even high school programs.

That's a tough road to climb. I wouldn't take legal firms having hundreds of cases in the filing stages as an indication of the strength of their position. These are plaintiff attorneys and they are chasing the money and the headlines.

Think about it, what are these players actually suing about? Are the players demanding money or are the plaintiff attorneys creating websites and attempting to pull together class action suits hoping for a settlement which they take 40%.

This isn't big tobacco.

 

[WedgeX]

Terrible for football players.

 

[Deepwater]

Football doesn't attract the best athletes, for sure. The NBA demands that you be tall and at the peak of athleticism. You need to be good with your hands and your feet. Soccer demands incredible stamina. Football... honestly some of the best players in the league aren't that good of athletes. Tom Brady is arguably the greatest QB of all time, but he is slow as fuck. He's really not a good athlete. He never would have done as well as he has in any other sport.

you don't watch football.

 

[TheSecondSpitter]

Maybe going back to leatherheads is the solution. Nobody uses their body as a human cannonball in Rugby Union or League because they would be rendered a paraplegic to do so.

The scrimmaging in Rugby League is actually not too dissimilar to the NFL (obviously there's no blocking).

 

[gamechanger87]

Football doesn't attract the best athletes, for sure. The NBA demands that you be tall and at the peak of athleticism. You need to be good with your hands and your feet. Soccer demands incredible stamina. Football... honestly some of the best players in the league aren't that good of athletes. Tom Brady is arguably the greatest QB of all time, but he is slow as fuck. He's really not a good athlete. He never would have done as well as he has in any other sport.

Umm there are a lot of guys in the NBA who are in the NBA just because they are 7 ft tall.

I don't know many NBA players who could do the following:

6' 5" 260lbs
Bench Press 225lbs 21 times
Run a 40 yd dash in 4.5 seconds
Standing broad jump of 10 ft
Leap 37.5"

That's Jadeveon Clowneys combine stats and he underperformed. Think about it. A 260lb person running a 40 in 4.5 seconds.

 

[Pryce]

So what's the next step here?

The banning of football.

Or rather, kids not going into football but opting for baseball, basketball or soccer with the NFL going the same way as boxing.

 

[captjohnboyd]

you don't watch football.

Indeed he doesn't.

I've lamented the dearth of quality big men in boxing for years now because they've all gone to the NFL. To make good money in boxing you had to be one of the top 20 or so boxers whereas a back up lineman can still make a couple million a year in football.

Some of these guys may be fat as fuck but they're still crazy physical specimens who have FAR more athleticism than regular Joes and many other athletes

 

[Ambient80]

Football doesn't attract the best athletes, for sure. The NBA demands that you be tall and at the peak of athleticism. You need to be good with your hands and your feet. Soccer demands incredible stamina. Football... honestly some of the best players in the league aren't that good of athletes. Tom Brady is arguably the greatest QB of all time, but he is slow as fuck. He's really not a good athlete. He never would have done as well as he has in any other sport.

There’s more to being athletic than finesse and speed.

 

[DizzyCaffeine]

Football doesn't attract the best athletes, for sure. The NBA demands that you be tall and at the peak of athleticism. You need to be good with your hands and your feet. Soccer demands incredible stamina. Football... honestly some of the best players in the league aren't that good of athletes. Tom Brady is arguably the greatest QB of all time, but he is slow as fuck. He's really not a good athlete. He never would have done as well as he has in any other sport.

Your one example is Brady? You're focusing too much on the QB position.

What about Antonio Brown, Odell Beckham, La'veon Bell, JJ Watt, Von Miller...all genetic freaks at the top of their game.

 

[gamechanger87]

The banning of football.

Or rather, kids not going into football but opting for baseball, basketball or soccer with the NFL going the same way as boxing.

You have almost no chance of making it big in either of those sports versus the NFL. The NFL has a much smaller pool of talent to draw on and larger rosters.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Football doesn't attract the best athletes, for sure. The NBA demands that you be tall and at the peak of athleticism. You need to be good with your hands and your feet. Soccer demands incredible stamina. Football... honestly some of the best players in the league aren't that good of athletes. Tom Brady is arguably the greatest QB of all time, but he is slow as fuck. He's really not a good athlete. He never would have done as well as he has in any other sport.

Football has some of the best athletes in the world. The combination of size, strength, speed and agility that you see with most linebackers, defensive ends and even tight ends is staggering.

I think things like this will cause a decline in the NFL and football in general, but it will be a slow, slow decline. Too much money involved for there to be any other, sensible solution. It will happen from the bottom up. The NFL and its owners will never give a shit, but less and less parents will shuttle their kids through youth football as time goes on. The talent pool will dilute.

 

[lightskintwin]

Indeed he doesn't.

I've lamented the dearth of quality big men in boxing for years now because they've all gone to the NFL. To make good money in boxing you had to be one of the top 20 or so boxers whereas a back up lineman can still make a couple million a year in football.

Some of these guys may be fat as fuck but they're still crazy physical specimens who have FAR more athleticism than regular Joes and many other athletes

Plus that doesn't address how they're bred and trained that way to be the size they are.

There’s more to being athletic than finesse and speed.

And yet they still posses those qualities.

 

[BassForever]

The banning of football.

Or rather, kids not going into football but opting for baseball, basketball or soccer with the NFL going the same way as boxing.

Boxing has two massive fights coming in the next 3 months. The only reason boxing hasn't been bigger is a lack of a big star to gain mass media attention. MMA is also rapidly growing.

 

[TheOMan]

Parents who give a shit about their children don't allow them to play football.

The sport will survive, but I would imagine that gifted young athletes will choose a different sport.

As for the sport currently? Nothing. It's a violent game by nature, and the players want it that way. At least now the information is out in the open and they can make the choice to play.

Pretty sure I would have been a football star - my Mom pulled me out when I was 8.

I guess she was right.

 

[Jkmetal]

NFL is on the of it's game atm but we ll see where it is in 15 years. I'd fall on the side of the NFL being too large, culturally relevant and powerful to be in bad shape. Will there be enough players though? The money will always be enough to snag players out of college but I can see college football needing to contract a bit.

 

[DizzyCaffeine]

Pretty sure I would have been a football star - my Mom pulled me out when I was 8.

I guess she was right.

She probably was. Think of the potential injuries you could be dealing with right now. And for what? The odds of going pro are insanely low.

 

[Burt]

Yeah, every story like this makes me wish I quit football more and more. Had a few concussions, but just as bad was the shit like tackling circuit in practice where you just end up with a massive fucking headache from banging your head against anything and everything for half an hour.


and bringing up Tom Brady as any sort of indicator for NFL athleticism is like me posting

PEAK ATHLETICISM

Spoiler

I don't watch enough basketball to know a better example than this stringbean

 

[gamechanger87]

Boxing has two massive fights coming in the next 3 months. The only reason boxing hasn't been bigger is a lack of a big star to gain mass media attention. MMA is also rapidly growing.

Interestingly enough, I listened to Mike Tyson talk about this yesterday. He was asked if he was coming up today would he do boxing or MMA. He said boxing without a heartbeat. The top boxers make way more money than MMA. Floyd made $85M in 2014. Conor McGregor may only make a ton of money because of Floyd this year.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Boxing has two massive fights coming in the next 3 months. The only reason boxing hasn't been bigger is a lack of a big star to gain mass media attention. MMA is also rapidly growing.

Boxing has seen a huge drop in participation over the last few decades, particularly in North America. Yes there are two massive fights coming up, with one American born boxer. Just like horse racing, there is always going to be an interest, particularly for the big fights/triple crown events, but boxing is not what it once was, especially in terms of youth participation. The biggest difference is in class disparity (like so many other things in society). 40-50+ years ago the middle and sometimes upper class used to box. Boxing was seen as a more prestigious past time. Boxing was more prevalant in the military (again, back when he middle class joined the military) and colleges.

 

[lightskintwin]

Interestingly enough, I listened to Mike Tyson talk about this yesterday. He was asked if he was coming up today would he do boxing or MMA. He said boxing without a heartbeat. The top boxers make way more money than MMA. Floyd made $85M in 2014. Conor McGregor may only make a ton of money because of Floyd this year.

You're literally only talking about the 1 percent in Boxing. Hell, maybe the .01 percent. Leagues have an advantage of building a rich middle class of athletes.

 

[norm9]

So the 1 exception is the kicker, right?

 

[Tawpgun]

There's probably gonna be a culture war on this soon. People calling to radically change football vs those that enjoy its violence, power, and speed.

Might give that flag football league that Vick and TO are on more merit as well.

It would be interesting to see a less padded version to see if it helps.

I love football so its tough to say

 

[Ninja Scooter]

You're literally only talking about the 1 percent in Boxing. Hell, maybe the .01 percent. Leagues have an advantage of building a rich middle class of athletes.

Yeah a vast majority of boxers are getting their faces caved in for peanuts hoping they hit the lottery.

 

[gamechanger87]

Boxing has seen a huge drop in participation over the last few decades, particularly in North America. Yes there are two massive fights coming up, with one American born boxer. Just like horse racing, there is always going to be an interest, particularly for the big fights/triple crown events, but boxing is not what it once was, especially in terms of youth participation. The biggest difference is in class disparity (like so many other things in society). 40-50+ years ago the middle and sometimes upper class used to box. Boxing was seen as a more prestigious past time. Boxing was more prevalant in the military (again, back when he middle class joined the military) and colleges.

Boxing is also suffering from a lack of heavyweight boxers. There is little joy in watching a 12 round middleweight match go to the judges. Many times the judges picks don't make sense and the ruling seems rigged. Manny has lost a lot of questionable fights from this.

 

[TheOMan]

She probably was. Think of the potential injuries you could be dealing with right now. And for what? The odds of going pro are insanely low.

*rubs bad knee from playing university ball*

 

[lightskintwin]

Boxing is also suffering from a lack of heavyweight boxers. There is little joy in watching a 12 round middleweight match go to the judges. Many times the judges picks don't make sense and the ruling seems rigged. Manny has lost a lot of questionable fights from this.

Well many have argued the growing popularity and economics of the NBA and NFL, combined with the growing Prison Industrial Complex has helped decimate our potential Heavyweight Contenders and Champions.

 

[Ripenen]

Tackle football probably should go away. It's dangerous and inefficient, and its appeal is pretty much limited to only the United States. Given the presentation challenges on TV it's kind of surprising it's so popular. If kids stop playing and the talent dries up it will be a challenge to keep it alive.

Compare that to sports like football (soccer) and basketball where the teams are smaller, players can have longer careers with fewer injuries, and at least in the case of basketball you can have more games and require smaller, cheaper facilities.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

Helmets really can't fix this. CTE is caused by repeated, relatively mild, trauma. It's not the big hits that cause it, it's the constant smaller collisions. No helmet is going to be able to sufficiently mitigate the impacts.

It's more possible that a nutritional supplement could solve the problem. When the brain is damaged it uses a specific type of protein to fix it. The problem is that the constant damage from football causes the brain to run out of it's prefered protein. It then starts using a different protein instead. It's that' less ideal protein that seems to cause CTE.

So giving people more of the good protein could solve the problem, but of course, to do that there would need to be a ton of research and the NFL is actively working to assure that the research that could save people won't happen.

The bigger question is if helmets are part of the problem. Do they contribute to the head knocks?
Just like in boxing there were no recorded deaths until they started using gloves. That's because you couldn't punch someone in the head more than a couple of times before you broke your hand.

 

[gamechanger87]

You're literally only talking about the 1 percent in Boxing. Hell, maybe the .01 percent. Leagues have an advantage of building a rich middle class of athletes.

I was just commenting on him saying he would chase the big bucks of being on top. He was saying that he doesn't think that a top-tier MMA fight would generate the purse on the table for Floyd v McGregor and I agree.

The MMA is building out a nice cadre of fighters making good money no doubt.

 

[Andrew Korenchkin]

I have to admit my enjoyment for Football has faded due to just how bad it is for your brain. Amazing how popular Football is, and what will happen to it down the linem

 

[MugiwaraCole]

Baby momma signed my son up for youth flag football this week. He starts practice next week.

I love this game with all my heart, but I just don't know if I can let him play it....

 

[gamechanger87]

The bigger question is if helmets are part of the problem. Do they contribute to the head knocks?
Just like in boxing there were no recorded deaths until they started using gloves. That's because you couldn't punch someone in the head more than a couple of times before you broke your hand.

Helmets were created to prevent broken skulls and deaths. I think before helmets like 20 players a year were dying.