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[smokeandmirrors]

get rid of padding and helmets. make it more like rugby. or just move to rugby because that shit is awesome.

 

[lightskintwin]

I was just commenting on him saying he would chase the big bucks of being on top. He was saying that he doesn't think that a top-tier MMA fight would generate the purse on the table for Floyd v McGregor and I agree.

The MMA is building out a nice cadre of fighters making good money no doubt.

Tyson is still thinking of the 80's though, when Boxing was still a mainstream sport and being Heavyweight Champion was one of if not the top athletic achievement in Black America..

It's only a matter of time before MMA creates two superstars that can generate the type of purses boxing mega events have done in the past.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Boxing is also suffering from a lack of heavyweight boxers. There is little joy in watching a 12 round middleweight match go to the judges. Many times the judges picks don't make sense and the ruling seems rigged. Manny has lost a lot of questionable fights from this.

That's an infrastructure issue. Boxing no longer has any sort of infrastructure or cache wirh young people. Football has replaced boxing as the sort of go to especially for lower class. For anybody who is showing the kinds of physical traits that might make them a great heavyweight boxer (size, strength, speed, hand/eye, agility) is immediately shuttled onto football. And it makes sense. There is more opportunity. Even if you don't make the NFL you can at least get a college scholarship out of it. If Muhammad Ali came up today he'd probably be an NFL wide receiver.

 

[Nipo]

Helmets were created to prevent broken skulls and deaths. I think before helmets like 20 players a year were dying.

Let's be honest. Players are still dying with helmets they are just slow painful deaths by CTE. Them dying a slow painful death is better for the NFL's marketing department but not necessarily better for the players.

 

[Bay Maximus]

Did they say what the prevalence of CTE is in the general pop? I can't seem to find it.

 

[gamechanger87]

get rid of padding and helmets. make it more like rugby. or just move to rugby because that shit is awesome.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sdut-rugby-head-injuries-safety-2016may16-story.html

In the most extensive study conducted comparing rugby and football, an Auckland University of Technology group examined the number of catastrophic incidents resulting in paralysis or death in sports between 1975 and 2005. It found that, other than in England, where injuries were fewer, rugby incidents worldwide caused 4.6 catastrophic injuries for every 100,000 players. Football had 75 percent fewer, at 1.0.

 

[Goldenroad]

Baby momma signed my son up for youth flag football this week. He starts practice next week.

I love this game with all my heart, but I just don't know if I can let him play it....

Pretty sure flag football doesn't lead to too many head injuries. Just maybe put a stop to it if he wants to get into full contact.

 

[CCS]

On the subject of comparing to rugby, Saracens and scientists from UCL are doing a study using monitoring devices attached to players' heads, as well as measuring various indicators before and after matches, to try and determine the effects of smaller sub-concussive impacts in rugby in the long term. Will be interesting to see what they find.

 

[lightskintwin]

That's an infrastructure issue. Boxing no longer has any sort of infrastructure or cache wirh young people. Football has replaced boxing as the sort of go to especially for lower class. For anybody who is showing the kinds of physical traits that might make them a great heavyweight boxer (size, strength, speed, hand/eye, agility) is immediately shuttled onto football. And it makes sense. There is more opportunity. Even if you don't make the NFL you can at least get a college scholarship out of it. If Muhammad Ali came up today he'd probably be an NFL wide receiver.

This.

I remember in the 90's the joke was if you're Black and showed any athletic potential, there was a White coach willing to transfer you to his high school and move you in with him. LOL

 

[gamechanger87]

That's an infrastructure issue. Boxing no longer has any sort of infrastructure or cache wirh young people. Football has replaced boxing as the sort of go to especially for lower class. For anybody who is showing the kinds of physical traits that might make them a great heavyweight boxer (size, strength, speed, hand/eye, agility) is immediately shuttled onto football. And it makes sense. There is more opportunity. Even if you don't make the NFL you can at least get a college scholarship out of it. If Muhammad Ali came up today he'd probably be an NFL wide receiver.

Completely agree. While its sad that its the case, Football is the best opportunity for a lot of underprivileged kids to make it and get an education if they don't make the NFL.

It's one of the main reasons that I disagree with a lot of people saying football is going away. The parents of kids who have a chance to make it in the NFL aren't going to pull them out and put them in another sport.

 

[Nipo]

Did they say what the prevalence of CTE is in the general pop? I can't seem to find it.

in a 2012 study by Lehman et al. retired NFL athletes were found to have a neurodegenerative mortality rate three-times that of the U.S. population generally, and when AD and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis were examined specifically NFL mortality rates were four times that of the general population


Is the easiest to understand data i've seen.

 

[CCS]

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sdut-rugby-head-injuries-safety-2016may16-story.html

Sure, that tells you about danger during the game. But deaths on the field are very very rare, in either rugby or football. There hasn't been the work done to determine what the differences are in long term damage.

 

[SolarPowered]

Jesus fuck

This sport needs big time changes.

 

[Kickz]

So what's the next step here?

Flag football rules

 

[30yearsofhurt]

Helmets were created to prevent broken skulls and deaths. I think before helmets like 20 players a year were dying.

Then you have a fundamental flaw in the game itself.

 

[gamechanger87]

Sure, that tells you about danger during the game. But deaths on the field are very very rare, in either rugby or football. There hasn't been the work done to determine what the differences are in long term damage.

Rugby has a lot of the same constant jostling and hits. The focus is on the NFL because that is where the money is.

 

[Ogodei]

NFL is on the of it's game atm but we ll see where it is in 15 years. I'd fall on the side of the NFL being too large, culturally relevant and powerful to be in bad shape. Will there be enough players though? The money will always be enough to snag players out of college but I can see college football needing to contract a bit.

College football will be the great filter for this, because of the NCAA's refusal to pay athletes, it changes the calculus. Yeah, easier to get into the NFL than NBA or MLB, but to get to the NFL you have to go through 4-5 years of NFL-level CTE-inducing activities, without pay, for what is not a guaranteed slot at getting paid in the future.

Then the risk of going through college football becomes too great because you're not even getting some cash in the short term to cover the long-term risks to your health, vs long term prospects of reward.

 

[lightskintwin]

Flag football rules

They aren't getting rid of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmjL9tMSYAM

 

[TSM]

I would think studies like this would be sufficient grounds to permanently separate football from our public school systems. If parents want their children to play football it should be on their own dime and time and not be subsidized by the school system. Alternatively turn it into a non contact sport.

 

[Gnub]

So what's the next step here?

Rugby takes off in the US or we start a robotic football league.

 

[CCS]

Rugby has a lot of the same constant jostling and hits. The focus is on the NFL because that is where the money is.

Right, my point wasn't that rugby isn't definitely safer. My point is that anyone who says that either sport is safer as a whole than the other is going beyond what the available data supports.

 

[shira]

Better helmets

If you have a guy running at you who weighs 200-300lbs and is running 40-45 km/h. WTF is a styrofoam hat going to do?

 

[gamechanger87]

I would think studies like this would be sufficient grounds to permanently separate football from our public school systems. If parents want their children to play football it should be on their own dime and time and not be subsidized by the school system.

Do you want other sports at the public school systems? Then you don't want to get rid of football. Football subsidizes all other programs to a significant degree.

This is not just the case in the South or Midwest but everywhere.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

Pretty sure flag football doesn't lead to too many head injuries. Just maybe put a stop to it if he wants to get into full contact.

It doesn't, but in general, kids his age get injured more playing flag. On top of not being very coordinated, they don't have near as much protective gear on.

Plus, as this article proves, the longer you play the game, the more you guarantee you'll get CTE. Don't know that I want him signing up for the sport now, loving it, and never wanting to stop when he's older. I'd rather hold him back, present the facts to him when he's old enough to make that decision on his own, and let it be from then.

 

[Ponn]

I would think studies like this would be sufficient grounds to permanently separate football from our public school systems. If parents want their children to play football it should be on their own dime and time and not be subsidized by the school system. Alternatively turn it into a non contact sport.

It's too big, especially in the south. Never going to happen. Parents want to see their boys playing football making big plays, the kids have dreams of making money and being famous, no one involved wants it to change.

 

[TSM]

Do you want other sports at the public school systems? Then you don't want to get rid of football. Football subsidizes all other programs to a significant degree.

This is not just the case in the South or Midwest but everywhere.

That's not the point. School systems are subsidizing an activity that leads to permanently brain damaging their students. No other considerations should weigh in above that.

It's too big, especially in the south. Never going to happen. Parents want to see their boys playing football making big plays, the kids have dreams of making money and being famous, no one involved wants it to change.

This could still be accomplished outside of the school system. Educational programs subsidizing the sport as it stands is unconscionable.

 

[gamechanger87]

It doesn't, but in general, kids his age get injured more playing flag. On top of not being very coordinated, they don't have near as much protective gear on.

Plus, as this article proves, the longer you play the game, the more you guarantee you'll get CTE. Don't know that I want him signing up for the sport now, loving it, and never wanting to stop when he's older. I'd rather hold him back, present the facts to him when he's old enough to make that decision on his own, and let it be from then.

I could see flag football being mandatory until around 6th grade when full contact is introduced. Kids aren't coordinated enough until that age and they are aware enough to be taught proper tackling techniques.

 

[lightskintwin]

It doesn't, but in general, kids his age get injured more playing flag. On top of not being very coordinated, they don't have near as much protective gear on.

Plus, as this article proves, the longer you play the game, the more you guarantee you'll get CTE. Don't know that I want him signing up for the sport now, loving it, and never wanting to stop when he's older. I'd rather hold him back, present the facts to him when he's old enough to make that decision on his own, and let it be from then.

It's crazy but despite me being big and athletic in the 80's and early 90's, my father wouldn't let me play football because he thought it was a dangerous sport so me and my brother were pushed to play Baseball during my school years.

So I guess he was right back then.

 

[gamechanger87]

That's not the point. School systems are subsidizing an activity that leads to permanently brain damaging their students. No other considerations should weigh in above that.

I'm saying football helps fund all other sports. And football booster clubs raise additional proceeds. Revenue from football ticket sales helps to pay for the other programs which make no money.

You kill high school football, you kill all other high school sports.

 

[lightskintwin]

That's not the point. School systems are subsidizing an activity that leads to permanently brain damaging their students. No other considerations should weigh in above that.

The NFL is 70 percent African American. There's a class issue where In those places, it's a privilege to not allow their kids play, as opposed to playing the lottery and possibly getting rich or a scholarship to college.

 

[Plinko]

I'm saying football helps fund all other sports. And football booster clubs raise additional proceeds. Revenue from football ticket sales helps to pay for the other programs which make no money.

You kill high school football, you kill all other high school sports.

This is true at the college level but wouldn't be at the high school level if funding was distributed correctly.

 

[darkazcura]

I'm saying football helps fund all other sports. And football booster clubs raise additional proceeds. Revenue from football ticket sales helps to pay for the other programs which make no money.

You kill high school football, you kill all other high school sports.

People will eventually choose other sports. I think high school sports like basketball and baseball could survive on their own without funding from football.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

I could see flag football being mandatory until around 6th grade when full contact is introduced. Kids aren't coordinated enough until that age and they are aware enough to be taught proper tackling techniques.

What's scary about this research is, it shows there's not really a proper way to tackle someone. And that's what's fucking with me. I've always thought CTE was somewhat unavoidable with proper technique and the newer rules (targeting, etc) being stressed. But it seems like just the act of tackling someone, no matter how picture perfect you make it look, is destroying these men's brains.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I'm saying football helps fund all other sports. And football booster clubs raise additional proceeds. Revenue from football ticket sales helps to pay for the other programs which make no money.

You kill high school football, you kill all other high school sports.

If it's becoming more and more apparent (and it is) that football is incredibly detrimental to the health and well being of a bunch of children (the majority of which won't go pro or get a college scholarship) it would be reprehensible to justify its existence essentially because so much money is riding on these kids' backs (and brains). That should be the least of anybody's worries.

 

[LegendofJoe]

It's crazy but despite me being big and athletic in the 80's and early 90's, my father wouldn't let me play football because he thought it was a dangerous sport so me and my brother were pushed to play Baseball during my school years.

So I guess he was right back then.

Same here, I'm not exactly big. But I was really strong back in the day. So the school coaches wanted me to play fullback. I had no interest though because the violence and all of the equipment you have to wear (this especially) was a big turnoff. So I happily played baseball instead.

I won't give my son the choice to play tackle football, it's not going to happen.

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

make it into a hollywood movie to promote the issue.

wait.

Tell the truth.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

All this said, I don't think football is really going anywhere. We'll just see parents allowing their kids to only play it later and later.

But in African-American culture especially, most of us can't afford to even think about not letting our kids play football. Which is sad.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

What's scary about this research is, it shows there's not really a proper way to tackle someone. And that's what's fucking with me. I've always thought CTE was somewhat unavoidable with proper technique and the newer rules (targeting, etc) being stressed. But it seems like just the act of tackling someone, no matter how picture perfect you make it look, is destroying these men's brains.

This has always been apparent. There is the mistake people make in thinking that only the big, highlight reel blow up hits that are dangerous, but look how many offensive and defensive lineman are suffering from CTE and concussion symptoms? The act of a human crashing into another human, which is the foundation that football is built around at the lines, is inherently dangerous. There's no way around that.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

This has always been apparent. There is the mistake people make in thinking that only the big, highlight reel blow up hits that are dangerous, but look how many offensive and defensive lineman are suffering from CTE and concussion symptoms? The act of a human crashing into another human, which is the foundation that football is built around at the lines, is inherently dangerous. There's no way around that.

I always figured the higher rates in linemen were them colliding helmets. But it's not.

This is...damn.

 

[lightskintwin]

All this said, I don't think football is really going anywhere. We'll just see parents allowing their kids to only play it later and later.

But in African-American culture especially, most of us can't afford to even think about not letting our kids play football. Which is sad.

Despite Polynesian players only making 0.5 percent of the American population they are 28 times more likely to play NFL and CFL than any other ethnic group.

If anything I think the fallout will be from middle class and upper class White families which will lead to less White players, and more ethnic players.

 

[MisterR]

Gifted young athletes will only chose a different sport if there is money there.

There is way more money in basketball and baseball at this point.

 

[TSM]

The NFL is 70 percent African American. There's a class issue where In those places, it's a privilege to not allow their kids play, as opposed to playing the lottery and possibly getting rich or a scholarship to college.

It's the attachment to education that makes it ethically gross. Those children are supposed to be there to learn and not to have their brains damaged. Your statistics guarantee that African Americans will continually suffer the largest affects of football's subsidization. The most terrible part is that the educational system is so terrible in the US that it could even justify any mental damage that could take place just to get a secondary education.

 

[Ketch]

Slightly off topic, but I have friends from AUS and NZ who always talk shit about pads in football, How does this compare to rugby? I don't understand how rugby players don't all have brain damage.

 

[Skinny Pete]

This is fucked up.I love Football but damn this is some damning evidence.

 

[gamechanger87]

There is way more money in basketball and baseball at this point.

For a select few players. It is much harder to make it in the NBA or MLB than the NFL by a significant margin. Larger player pool (international), longer careers and small rosters make it near impossible to make it compared to football.

 

[LegendofJoe]

It's the attachment to education that makes it ethically gross. Those children are supposed to be there to learn and not to have their brains damaged. Your statistics guarantee that African Americans will continually suffer the largest affects of football's subsidization. The most terrible part is that the educational system is so terrible in the US that it could even justify any mental damage that could take place just to get a secondary education.

It's either that or take on massive debt that you may never be able to pay off. One way or another the owners of this countey will find a way to screw you.

 

[lightskintwin]

It's the attachment to education that makes it ethically gross. Those children are supposed to be there to learn and not to have their brains damaged. Your statistics guarantee that African Americans will continually suffer the largest affects of football's subsidization. The most terrible part is that the educational system is so terrible in the US that it could even justify any mental damage that could take place just to get a secondary education.

That's what makes the billion dollar College Sports economy built around Football and Basketball even more exploitative.

There is way more money in basketball and baseball at this point.

As been pointed out, longer careers and smaller rosters make getting into those sports more difficult for a payoff.

And that's not addressing that African Americans as a whole have completely lost interest in baseball.

 

[MisterR]

This is fucked up.I love Football but damn this is some damning evidence.

Yep, I played HS football and loved it, but I'm not letting my son play football. He plays baseball, basketball and soccer.

 

[Parch]

I'm guessing the NFL will want to get a 2nd opinion on that. I can understand if they think 110 out of 111 might look like there might be a bit of an agenda going on. What is the definition of "mild effects" and how does that affects quality of life? How do the numbers compare to other sports and the general population and the casual sports participant? I've taken a few bumps in my life. Maybe I have mild effect CTE too.
Just reading the article, I'm thinking there's a bit of NYT sensationalism to target the NFL. I'm not trying to dismiss the findings, but there could be a huge number of the general population who could "test positive" for CTE if the test parameters are set low enough.

Still, it's some pretty shocking numbers and honestly not surprising that studies are revealing some obvious connections to the NFL and severe CTE. It's a nasty combo and the more medical science learns about CTE, the NFL is not going to be happy with the results and will have to deal with it. The NFL and probably combat sports will be the sports that are going to have the worst CTE results no matter the numbers.

 

[Skinny Pete]

Yep, I played HS football and loved it, but I'm not letting my son play football. He plays baseball, basketball and soccer.

I have a 3 year old son and yeah I'm def very hesitant to let him play football. This is eye opening.