NYTimes: American Forces Bomb ISIS Targets in Iraq

Status
Not open for further replies.
Happy to hear those lives being saved. Good job Obama.

US should push for a Kurdistan via Turkish support. Make the Kurds become the role model for the Arabs in the region. God knows the Kurds deserve it. They're good people with decent values, suffered so much under Saddam.
 
Wow, this actually gives me hope. There hasn't been a lot of that around these days.

Edit: Missed the speech however, is it up anywhere?
 
I like my president. I respect those who want no intervention, but if we're going to have intervention, this is about as clear cut as it can get for the "world police."
 
ICKE said:
As in significant part of Iraq with many civilian populated towns, millions upon millions of people? What are you going to level, they don't really have military bases or tanks as they operate from these large cities.
Click to expand...

What about when they travel across the desert in their convoys. There is only 8000 of them bombing them on the move wouldn't be hard.
 
PhoenixDark said:
I don't "want" them to die, I don't believe we have any obligation to prevent it from happening. The Kurds are already attempting to save the group from what I've read.

It's not the US' job to intervene in every country that has a problem. And while one could argue the root of the problem lies in the US invasion of Iraq, I don't believe that means we must go back and "fix" this. It's not the US' fault that Malaki is a fool.
Click to expand...

It is when the US made this mess in the first place. The US has to Clean up its own mess. It´s the least the US has to do.
 
ksharp said:
No. Hussein would have also been scrambling against ISIS. His downfall isn't the reason for ISIS's sudden rise.
Click to expand...

Yes it is. Saddam hate these fanatic fucks. That is why he refused the help of Bin Laden prior to the American invasion. Of course he is still a murdering dictator, but he would not have let these fanatics to breath in Iraq. He would have massacred them and their families. Besides the majority of Sunnis would have stood behind Saddam.
 
FiggyCal said:
We are.
BueyGZaIYAAOxuS.png
Click to expand...
That's good news. Hope this can be solved soon
 
Normally I would be uncomfortable with military actions, but I have extreme issues allowing a genocide occur without lifting a bloody finger. So I am for military action on this occasion.
 
ksharp said:
Let the UN or a UN-led coalition deal with ISIS.
Click to expand...

Dude. I come from a country where we relied on UN help. Then, Srebrenica happened. I am all for not being the world police, but if there is a point to start, this is not it.
 
it was not a matter of if but when after the 40,000 people got stuck in the mountains. No logical person would argue against an airstrike for saving those people at this point.


While they are at it, they should bomb their caliph too.
 
I also thought intervening against these assholes was a fool's errand, but hell, now that we've broken the seal on it may as well just do some real damage. It's not like there is any dangerous (for our bomber) airspace we have to fly through to get to them. I'm hoping we're working closely with the Kurds to pick useful targets.
 
The real issue here is the spineless Iraqi Army who fled at the first sight of ISIS and let them take the weaponry that we equipped them with. What the fuck? That pisses me off that these people have US weaponry at their disposal to terrorize people.
 
ksharp said:
But Americans have not elected Obama to funnel hard-earned taxpayer monies to help Iraq. Obama should let Iraqis deal with ISIS on their own, unless the UNSC steps up and forms a worldwide coalition against ISIS.
Click to expand...

"...a representative owes the People not only his industry, but his judgment, and he betrays them if he sacrifices it to their opinion." - Edmund Burke, a member of the British Parliament.

FiggyCal said:
We are.
BueyGZaIYAAOxuS.png
Click to expand...
Because this tactic totally helped the Poles in the Warsaw Ghettos. First off that isn't a whole lot of supplies for 40,000 and secondly we should be giving these people weapons to defend themselves. Humanitarian aid can only do so much when people want you dead.
 
MikeDown said:
Because this tactic totally helped the Poles in the Warsaw Ghettos. First off that isn't a whole lot of supplies for 40,000 and secondly we should be giving these people weapons to defend themselves. Humanitarian aid can only do so much when people want you dead.
Click to expand...

East Germans were helped just fine. Where there are is a natural fortress. They can hold out against anything but a substantial assault. Which if that happens Obama said we will stop them. The water containers is was done in one drop. C-130s are really good at this aspect of inserting supplies and medicine. The people can be sustained up there for a long time with support until ground troops (Peshmerga or IA) can come in. Plus these people are refugees not soldiers you can't reasonably expect them to stand a chance.
 
MikeDown said:
"...a representative owes the People not only his industry, but his judgment, and he betrays them if he sacrifices it to their opinion." - Edmund Burke, a member of the British Parliament.


Because this tactic totally helped the Poles in the Warsaw Ghettos. First off that isn't a whole lot of supplies for 40,000 and secondly we should be giving these people weapons to defend themselves. Humanitarian aid can only do so much when people want you dead.
Click to expand...
There are more shipments planned. As far as I know, we're also protecting the mountain. These aren't trained combatants -- we can't expect them to be crack shots and throw guns at them.

Edit: And according to the AP, the Iraqi army is also sending them supplies.
 
MikeDown said:
Because this tactic totally helped the Poles in the Warsaw Ghettos. First off that isn't a whole lot of supplies for 40,000 and secondly we should be giving these people weapons to defend themselves. Humanitarian aid can only do so much when people want you dead.
Click to expand...

Wrong example... how about us supplying East Germany once the Soviets blocked all land supplies? We literally did it by air alone, bro. These are civilians we are talking about; why the hell would we arm them? It don't sound like a smart idea.
 
ksharp said:
Let the UN or a UN-led coalition deal with ISIS.
Click to expand...

We all know at this point that Russia would veto anything the U.S would bring to the table, and besides even if things went smoothly it's not exactly like we have a surplus of time.

Those people need help and they need it now, and the U.N is far too bogged down by bureaucracy to provide immediate aid.
 
Ugh just saw the pictures of ISIS crucifying people. Now I'm starting to wonder if the child beheading thing isn't just rhetoric...
 
the US is obliged to fix Iraq and stay in Iraq.

they broke it, now fix it.

The Bush doctrine of freedom is a total failure. They were better off under Saddam
 
gutter_trash said:
the US is obliged to fix Iraq and stay in Iraq.

they broke it, now fix it.

The Bush doctrine of freedom is a total failure. They were better off under Saddam
Click to expand...
I don't think that's the case, simply that our consciences would have been better off. For a lot of people, life under Saddam was as brutal and terrifying as any other dictator.
 
~Devil Trigger~ said:
Part of the reason ISIS have gained so much is cuz the raqi Shia and Sunni Arabs are not united, they haven't "bought in" Iraq yet. In fact they were busy fighting each other while ISIS was creeping across the border.

The Kurds, across Syria/Iraq north, have been consistent at the least. They stayed in teir place cuz the largely Shia Iraqi Gov't have done their best to isolate ethnic groups in the country, plus they don't have the man power to just mount random offensives across the country. AND the territory they've lost to ISIS have largely been cuz ISIS have gotten better 'American" weapons from the so-called Iraqi Army lol.

Overall the Arabs in Iraq have been super disappointing, zero leadership. The Kurds, while far from perfect, have largely guarded their lines well, they're fighting for something they actually believe in....

And on another note, some attitudes in this thread are straight up disturbing. Looks like Bush's specific fuck up have turned a lot of Americans into a bunch of powerful bystanders.
Click to expand...
They weren't busy fighting each other while ISIS was creeping the border. ISIS has always had a heavy presence in Iraqi Sunni areas for years now, and Iraqi Forces have been fightings them for a long time in Anbar; the presence of the military there increased when the locals (again) invited ISIS coming from Syria to their homes. Before that it was more about preventing Anbar to become once again another hotbed for terrorists. When they took over Mosul and surrounding regions it wasn't because of some Shia-Sunni fighting. To begin with the Shia presence there isn't large, secondly the reason was that Iraqi soldiers in tens of thousands deserted their posts and escaped, and lots Iraqi media reported (including testimony of some soldiers) it to have been orders from the upper chain of command in the area. Most of the military personel in Mosul consisted of Sunnis, most of them being from the city or the region there (so much for Maliki being sectarian)

The Kurds have been consistent sure. They don't have a split between two sects and agree with each other on most things. The southern parts in Iraq are pretty much the same in that regard. This is also why you find criticism towards Maliki only increasing in the South, after all (and much like the Kurdish regions) why should they have to sacrifice their men to fight for people that would love to see the old government that oppressed them restored again? Saying that the Iraqi govt has done its best to isolate its ethnic group is jokes. If that's the case you better start calling Lebanon sectarian and the rest of the countries in the region as Nazi governments.

It's not that Arabs in Iraq have been super disappointing. It's that many Iraqi Sunni Arabs still live in pre-2003 because I can assure you that Iraqi Shia have absolutely not one fucking thing to gain from protecting or trying to keep Sunni areas as a part of Iraq. It's only the belief in one: keeping the country united and two: preventing them from reaching the much more stable south. Basically what you said about Kurds can be applied to the south, the only difference is that the south is volunteering to fight in cities not even close to them while the Kurds are only concerned with disputed areas and their region. The Kurds don't have the same burden, and they are smart enough to not want it.
 
I view this as the same as our (US) intervention in Bosnia or (failed attempt in) Somalia. We have the means to try and at least save tens of thousands of lives so let's do it.

And the more I read about the Kurds in Northern Iraq the more I think they need our support. They appear to get along with one another, have been oppressed, and have no sinister motives. But they're out there fighting all kinds of bad people. I admit I'm no historian or whatever but that's how it looks to me.

I am also fine with my tax dollars stopping groups like ISIS and saving civilians. More than fine. In a better world this is what a country as large and powerful as ours would spend our time doing. Protecting and feeding.
 
Apt101 said:
I view this as the same as our (US) intervention in Bosnia or (failed attempt in) Somalia. We have the means to try and at least save tens of thousands of lives so let's do it.

And the more I read about the Kurds in Northern Iraq the more I think they need our support. They appear to get along with one another, have been oppressed, and have no sinister motives. But they're out there fighting all kinds of bad people. I admit I'm no historian or whatever but that's how it looks to me.

I am also fine with my tax dollars stopping groups like ISIS and saving civilians. More than fine. In a better world this is what a country as large and powerful as ours would spend our time doing. Protecting and feeding.
Click to expand...
Out there fighting all kinds of bad people? They aren't directly fighting anyone in Iraq. They've had disputes with the central government, they've had Turkey striking within their territory several times and I believe they had some smaller issues with Iran. In comparison to most of Iraq since 2003 they've had the least fighting and least terrorism. It's only now that they got to barely scratch the surface of something that all other groups in Iraq has been dealing with since 2003.

While the airstrikes certainly was a good thing this indirectly means that Obama has given the message that the rest of Iraq is a fair game for ISIS (good luck Shia, Christians and Turkomans in the northern region!) because else that air assistance would have already arrived in June. Another reason why US will always be one of Iraq's worst allies and can never be trusted. Meanwhile the Kurds were thankful for US airstrikes but didn't even say a word to the IAF that has been hitting ISIS targets for weeks in the region and also helped with dropping supplies; most of the work has been done by IAF. Considering they couldn't care even less it would make sense to pull out the military from there and let the Kurds keep asking for assistance from US. Bring the military back and focus on the western to northen areas around Baghdad. Maliki won't of course do this because he's attempting to appease the Kurds again. The useless fucker just cares about keeping his fucking chair.
 
Some of you seemed especially distressed at the Yazidi plight and I thought you might find this development comforting:


Kurdish forces tell Al Jazeera they have opened a road to Sinjar, reaching more than 5,000 Yazidis besieged by IS group.


Iraqi Kurdish security forces have opened a road to Sinjar Mountain in northwestern Iraq, rescuing more than 5,000 Yazidis trapped there after running away from fighters from the Islamic State (IS) group, a Kurdish army spokesman has told Al Jazeera.

"I can confirm that we succeeded in reaching the mountains and opening a road for the refugees," said Halgord Hikmet, a spokesman for the peshmergas the Kurdish security forces.

Hikmet said that recent airstrikes on the IS targets by US warplanes had allowed the peshmergas to open a route to the mountain.
Click to expand...




http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/08/kurds-rescue-yazidis-from-iraq-mountain-201489135227783157.html
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

American YouTuber Sabbatical falsely imprisoned in Russia
30
2K
Mr Reasonable replied
American Primeval (Netflix)
|OT| 
4
905
I collect VHS tapes replied
2025 Movies - North American Release Schedule
4
2K
dispensergoinup replied
American Primevil [netflix]: This ain't your daddy's tale of the West
34
3K
TonberrysKnife replied
Prime Target (Apple TV)
2
285
AJUMP23 replied
Top Bottom