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(NYTIMES) Publishers look to Barnes & Noble to save them from Amazon

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Ripclawe

Banned
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/b...-fight-of-its-life.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print

N March 2009, an eternity ago in Silicon Valley, a small team of engineers here was in a big hurry to rethink the future of books. Not the paper-and-ink books that have been around since the days of Gutenberg, the ones that the doomsayers proclaim — with glee or dread — will go the way of vinyl records.

No, the engineers were instead fixated on the forces that are upending the way books are published, sold, bought and read: e-books and e-readers. Working in secret, behind an unmarked door in a former bread bakery, they rushed to build a device that might capture the imagination of readers and maybe even save the book industry.

They had six months to do it.

Running this sprint was, of all companies, Barnes & Noble, the giant that helped put so many independent booksellers out of business and that now finds itself locked in the fight of its life. What its engineers dreamed up was the Nook, a relative e-reader latecomer that has nonetheless become the great e-hope of Barnes & Noble and, in fact, of many in the book business.

Several iterations later, the Nook and, by extension, Barnes & Noble, at times seem the only things standing between traditional book publishers and oblivion.

Inside the great publishing houses — grand names like Macmillan, Penguin and Random House — there is a sense of unease about the long-term fate of Barnes & Noble, the last major bookstore chain standing. First, the megastores squeezed out the small players. (Think of Tom Hanks’s Fox & Sons Books to Meg Ryan’s Shop Around the Corner in the 1998 comedy, “You’ve Got Mail”.) Then the chains themselves were gobbled up or driven under, as consumers turned to the Web. B. Dalton Bookseller and Crown Books are long gone. Borders collapsed last year.

No one expects Barnes & Noble to disappear overnight. The worry is that it might slowly wither as more readers embrace e-books. What if all those store shelves vanished, and Barnes & Noble became little more than a cafe and a digital connection point? Such fears came to the fore in early January, when the company projected that it would lose even more money this year than Wall Street had expected. Its share price promptly tumbled 17 percent that day.

Lurking behind all of this is Amazon.com, the dominant force in books online and the company that sets teeth on edge in publishing. From their perches in Midtown Manhattan, many publishing executives, editors and publicists view Amazon as the enemy — an adversary that, if unchecked, could threaten their industry and their livelihoods.

Like many struggling businesses, book publishers are cutting costs and trimming work forces. Yes, electronic books are booming, sometimes profitably, but not many publishers want e-books to dominate print books. Amazon’s chief executive, Jeffrey P. Bezos, wants to cut out the middleman — that is, traditional publishers — by publishing e-books directly.

Which is why Barnes & Noble, once viewed as the brutal capitalist of the book trade, now seems so crucial to that industry’s future. Sure, you can buy bestsellers at Walmart and potboilers at the supermarket. But in many locales, Barnes & Noble is the only retailer offering a wide selection of books. If something were to happen to Barnes & Noble, if it were merely to scale back its ambitions, Amazon could become even more powerful and — well, the very thought makes publishers queasy.

“It would be like ‘The Road,’ ” one publishing executive in New York said, half-jokingly, referring to the Cormac McCarthy novel. “The post-apocalyptic world of publishing, with publishers pushing shopping carts down Broadway.”

Shouldering the responsibilities of Barnes & Noble is one thing. Holding the fate of American book publishing in your hands is quite another. But William J. Lynch Jr., the C.E.O. of the company, says he is up for the battle. With all of three years of experience in bookselling, Mr. Lynch must pull off a balancing act that would be tricky even in good times. He must carve out a digital future for Barnes & Noble without forsaking its hard-copy past, all while his company’s profit and share price are under pressure, his customers are fleeing to the Web and Amazon is circling.

It might come as a surprise, but Mr. Lynch says Barnes & Noble is, in fact, a technology company. Never mind that it has 703 bookstores and operates in all 50 states. To the delight of publishers, he has pushed hard into e-books and, with the help of the well-reviewed Nook, even grabbed a lot of market share from Amazon. But he is playing David to Mr. Bezos’s Goliath. Barnes & Noble’s stock closed on Friday at $11.95, putting the value of the company at $719 million. Amazon’s shares closed at $195.37, valuing Mr. Bezos’s company at $88 billion.

“We could sit here and bang our head against the wall and get sick about it like we do every week,” Mr. Lynch, 41, said of his company’s stock price. But he contends that pushing into e-books with the Nook is the right way, and perhaps the only way, forward.

“Had we not launched devices and spent the money we invested in the Nook, investors and analysts would have said, ‘Barnes & Noble is crazy, and they’re going to go away,’ ” Mr. Lynch said.

BEFORE Mr. Lynch joined Barnes & Noble in 2009, he had never sold a book in his life. (The last book he read — on the Nook, he said last week — was “The Spy Who Came In From the Cold,” by John le Carré.) Mr. Lynch came to the job from IAC/InterActiveCorp, where he worked for HSN.com, the online outlet of the Home Shopping Network, and Gifts.com.

And yet, in three years, he has won a remarkable number of fans in the upper echelons of the book world. Most publishers in New York can’t say enough good things about him: smart, creative, tech-savvy — the list goes on. It helps that he has forged the friendliest relations between publishers and Barnes & Noble in recent memory. They are, after all, in this together.

Mr. Lynch grew up in Dallas and still speaks with a hint of Texas twang. But he has the foot-tapping intensity of a tech type running on four Mountain Dews. It seems fitting, then, that he usually works out of an office in the Chelsea neighborhood of Manhattan, where Barnes & Noble’s Web and digital operations are based, rather than at the company’s stately headquarters on Fifth Avenue, not far away. When he talks, you get the sense that he could be selling just about anything. As it happens, he is selling books.

Mr. Lynch says Barnes & Noble stores will endure. The idea that devices like the Nook, Kindle and Apple iPad will make bookstores obsolete is nonsense, he says.

“Our stores are not going anywhere,” he said in an interview this month in his office. He pointed to a surprisingly robust holiday season. In the nine weeks leading up to Christmas, sales were up 4 percent from the previous year. Titles for children and young adults are doing well, partly a result of the popularity of fiction with paranormal or dystopian themes, like “The Hunger Games.” And in the second half of 2011, Barnes & Noble picked up a big chunk of business from its vanquished rival, Borders.

Yet no sooner had the holidays passed than Barnes & Noble came out with some downbeat news for the year ahead. On Jan. 5, it projected it would lose as much as $1.40 a share in fiscal 2012. On top of that, Mr. Lynch said shareholders seemed to be underestimating the Nook’s potential so much that perhaps the company would be better off if it just spun off its digital business.


Wall Street howled, and Barnes & Noble’s stock still hasn’t fully recovered. A bit of good news for the company is that, thanks to the Nook, it’s been grabbing e-book business from Amazon. Mr. Lynch said Barnes & Noble now held about 27 percent of the market, a number that publishers confirm gleefully. Amazon has at least 60 percent.

Responding to questions about the battle over e-books, Amazon issued a statement on Friday pointing to its own recent growth. In the nine-week holiday period ended Dec. 31, it said, “Kindle unit sales, including both the Kindle Fire and e-reader devices, increased 177 percent over the same period last year.”

Granted, Mr. Lynch inherited a company at a pivotal moment in its long, winding history. Barnes & Noble dates back to 1873, when Charles Barnes went into the used-book business in Wheaton, Ill. His company later moved to New York, bought an interest in an established textbook wholesaler, Noble & Noble, and opened a large bookshop on Fifth Avenue.

So it went until an enterprising young bookseller, Leonard Riggio, came along. After gaining a foothold in college bookstores, he bought that Barnes & Noble bookshop in 1971. Before long, he was offering deep discounts — and expanding wildly across the nation.

Early in his tenure, Mr. Lynch pressed Mr. Riggio’s brother, Stephen, his predecessor as C.E.O., to explain the business he’d gotten himself into.

“I had this ‘La Femme Nikita’ immersion with him,” Mr. Lynch recalled. “We went to lunch and I just told him, ‘Tell me everything you know about the book business.’ ”

But at that time, Amazon had already made the first successful move in e-readers: the first-generation Kindle hit the market in November 2007. Mr. Lynch had arrived in the C-suite, but was perilously late to the party.

ON Homer Avenue in downtown Palo Alto is a tiny, two-story building that once housed the maker of Palo Alto Bread. It was here, in March 2009, that Barnes & Noble brought a few new hires to create the Nook. Outsiders weren’t quite sure what the company was up to. The landlord figured that Mr. Lynch wanted to open a store.

What began as an almost quixotic effort to catch up with the Amazon Kindle has now grown into a 300-person operation in the heart of Silicon Valley. Mr. Lynch has hired engineers, software developers and designers, who are today spread among five low-slung buildings.

In one room, a virtual wallpaper of Nook color devices hangs in rows neat as a checkerboard. A common area holds a foosball table and a cooler of VitaminWater. Some of the walls are made of silver-colored mesh. Some of the cubicles are lime green.

But there are also reminders of the old Barnes & Noble. Over here is a basket of actual books, including “Travels With Charley” and “The Little Prince.” Over there on a wall are enormous vintage covers of books like “Of Mice and Men” and “The Great Gatsby.”

It was Nick Carraway who told Jay Gatsby, “You can’t repeat the past.” That warning seems to hang over these offices. A sign above one group of engineers says: “We are changing the future of bookselling.”

For all the bells and whistles and high-minded talk, Barnes & Noble doesn’t exactly have the cool factor (or money) of, say, a Google or a Facebook.

Ravi Gopalakrishnan, the first engineer whom Mr. Lynch hired and now the chief technology officer for digital products, said his techie friends were incredulous when he joined Barnes & Noble.

“They were all wondering what I was up to,” Mr. Gopalakrishnan, 46, said. “I’m a technology guy — why I was working for a retail company? They thought I was nuts. There were a lot of e-mails that said, ‘Barnes & Noble?!’ ”

Bill Saperstein, a mild-mannered surfer and a veteran of Apple, said he was persuaded to leave retirement to join Barnes & Noble as vice president for digital products hardware engineering.

“We don’t see a lot of the stock and the free sushi bar and everything else that you find at Google, but there’s a lot of responsibility,” said Mr. Saperstein, 62, who spent seven years working for Steve Jobs. “It was stuff that I strongly believed in, which was reading.”

Barnes & Noble is trying to strike at Amazon with another device. At its labs in Silicon Valley last week, engineers were putting final touches on their fifth e-reading device, a product that executives said would be released sometime this spring. (A Barnes & Noble spokeswoman declined to elaborate.)

Back in New York, Mr. Lynch has been working to revamp the look of Barnes & Noble stores. Last year, the company expanded sections for toys and games and added shiny new display space for its Nook devices. In another sign of the digital revolution, Mr. Lynch expects to eliminate the dedicated sections for music and DVD’s within two years — while still selling some of them elsewhere in the stores. He also plans to experiment with slightly smaller stores. And, before long, executives will take the Nook overseas — a big switch, given that Barnes & Noble has focused almost exclusively on the American market for decades. The first stop is expected to be Waterstones bookstores in Britain.

All of this would be a tall order for any C.E.O., and some analysts wonder if Mr. Lynch has bitten off more than he can chew. Then again, given this industry’s pace of change, Barnes & Noble may have to adapt to new realities, or die trying.

“I think they realize they can’t continue at the rate they’re going,” said Jack W. Perry, a publishing consultant. “They need more money to invest, to slug it out.”

THESE are trying times for almost everyone in the book business. Since 2002, the United States has lost roughly 500 independent bookstores — nearly one out of five. About 650 bookstores vanished when Borders went out of business last year.

No wonder that some New York publishers have gone so far as to sketch out what the industry might look like without Barnes & Noble. It’s not a happy thought for them: Certainly, there would be fewer places to sell books. Independents account for less than 10 percent of business, and Target, Walmart and the like carry far smaller selections than traditional bookstores.

Without Barnes & Noble, the publishers’ marketing proposition crumbles. The idea that publishers can spot, mold and publicize new talent, then get someone to buy books at prices that actually makes economic sense, suddenly seems a reach. Marketing books via Twitter, and relying on reviews, advertising and perhaps an appearance on the “Today” show doesn’t sound like a winning plan.

What publishers count on from bookstores is the browsing effect. Surveys indicate that only a third of the people who step into a bookstore and walk out with a book actually arrived with the specific desire to buy one.

“That display space they have in the store is really one of the most valuable places that exists in this country for communicating to the consumer that a book is a big deal,” said Madeline McIntosh, president of sales, operations and digital for Random House.

What’s more, sales of older books — the so-called backlist, which has traditionally accounted for anywhere from 30 to 50 percent of the average big publisher’s sales — would suffer terribly.

“For all publishers, it’s really important that brick-and-mortar retailers survive,” said David Shanks, the chief executive of the Penguin Group USA. “Not only are they key to keeping our physical book business thriving, there is also the carry-on effect of the display of a book that contributes to selling e-books and audio books. The more visibility a book has, the more inclined a reader is to make a purchase.”

Carolyn Reidy, president and chief executive of Simon & Schuster, says the biggest challenge is to give people a reason to step into Barnes & Noble stores in the first place. “They have figured out how to use the store to sell e-books," she said of the company. "Now, hopefully, we can figure out how to make that go full circle and see how the e-books can sell the print books.”

Mr. Bezos, for one, isn’t waiting. Amazon has set the book industry on edge by starting a publishing unit that has snagged authors like Timothy Ferriss and James Franco. And, each day, the stock market provides a sobering reminder that Mr. Bezos, not Mr. Lynch, has the deeper pockets.

While publishers’ fates are closely tied to Barnes & Noble, said John Sargent, the C.E.O. of Macmillan, it’s not all about them.

“Anybody who is an author, a publisher, or makes their living from distributing intellectual property in book form is badly hurt,” he said, “if Barnes & Noble does not prosper.”
 

gcubed

Member
When i saw this in my newsfeed this morning I thought it was going to be about offsetting Amazons power then read the sentence where publishers think in store browsing is necessary and gave up. I dont understand how companies can be so out of touch.
 

Futureman

Member
(Think of Tom Hanks’s Fox & Sons Books to Meg Ryan’s Shop Around the Corner in the 1998 comedy, “You’ve Got Mail”.)

Holy hell thank you! I had no idea what this fucking article was going on about until I came across this. Now I got it. I think. I'll have to get my VCR out and review "You've Got Mail" to make sure I understand.
 

Bboy AJ

My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
This article is just mindless propaganda from publishers. It's all bullshit.
 

Korey

Member
When i saw this in my newsfeed this morning I thought it was going to be about offsetting Amazons power then read the sentence where publishers think in store browsing is necessary and gave up. I dont understand how companies can be so out of touch.

Well, I was in BN today (researching cooking for beginners books so that I could go home and buy it on Amazon), and I did have a thought that if BN didn't exist, A LOT of those books would be virtually invisible.

There are literally like a billion books about cooking. On Amazon only the biggest ones would get any mindshare. I mean, usually people only look at the top relevant results or number of reviews or stars and that's it. I flipped through some books that weren't recommended or mentioned in my other thread.
 

gcubed

Member
Well, I was in BN today (researching cooking for beginners books so that I could go home and buy it on Amazon), and I did have a thought that if BN didn't exist, A LOT of those books would be virtually invisible.

There are literally like a billion books about cooking. On Amazon only the biggest ones would get any mindshare. I mean, usually people only look at the top relevant results or number of reviews or stars and that's it. I flipped through some books that weren't recommended or mentioned in my other thread.

And thats a great example but i dont think the answer is to force a model thats dying. They should be putting focus on how to bring that experience online.
One solution they are scared of is... remove publishers
 

Blackhead

Redarse
When i saw this in my newsfeed this morning I thought it was going to be about offsetting Amazons power then read the sentence where publishers think in store browsing is necessary and gave up. I dont understand how companies can be so out of touch.

I thought the article did a good job of explaining why the publishers consider in store browsing important. The book industry isn't like the music industry (which has lost more record stores in a similar way to the disappearing book stores) or movie industry; there is nothing like radio for books and there are rarely billboards for the newly released books like are for movies, records or games. On the flip side, the book industry still has libraries but publishers hate that so fuck them.

The most interesting nugget the article:
Barnes & Noble is trying to strike at Amazon with another device. At its labs in Silicon Valley last week, engineers were putting final touches on their fifth e-reading device, a product that executives said would be released sometime this spring. (A Barnes & Noble spokeswoman declined to elaborate.)
I'd like it to be a higher resolution 6" eink/mirasol eReader but it's more likely to be a 10" tablet :/
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Well, I was in BN today (researching cooking for beginners books so that I could go home and buy it on Amazon), and I did have a thought that if BN didn't exist, A LOT of those books would be virtually invisible.

There are literally like a billion books about cooking. On Amazon only the biggest ones would get any mindshare. I mean, usually people only look at the top relevant results or number of reviews or stars and that's it. I flipped through some books that weren't recommended or mentioned in my other thread.

It's the same with any Internet market place: how do you get consumers to look further than the top 10 list of most popular apps/games/music/etc.?

Another thing: the real reason why we need publishers is the horror that is the slush pile. In a world where anyone can publish a book, we must have people who sift through the rubbish and find the pearls. And we need editors to to make a good book a great book.

And here's another thing: it's good that Amazon has competition. It's bad for consumers when Amazon becomes the de facto ebook publisher in the US and is able to set prices for the whole industry. I want a world where you can buy any ebookswith any device from any store. I don't want to be forced to buy a Kindle.
 

giga

Member
I had no idea that James Franco was an author. Makes him even more attractive.

Mr. Lynch says Barnes & Noble stores will endure. The idea that devices like the Nook, Kindle and Apple iPad will make bookstores obsolete is nonsense, he says.
Perhaps not obsolete in the developing world, but I definitely think they'll share the same fate as tapes, vinyl, and CDs in developed nations like the US. Embrace the future or be left behind.

Amazon v. BN in the market, by the way.

7F2GX.png
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Another thing: the real reason why we need publishers is horror that is the slush pile. In a world where anyone can publush a book, we must have people who sift through the rubbish and find the pearls. And we need editors to to make a good book a great book.

And how many stories have we heard by now about extremely well regarded, successful books previously being rejected countless times by publishers for not fitting preconceived genre notions or market profiles or any other arbitrary metric?
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
And how many stories have we heard by now about extremely well regarded, successful books previously being rejected countless times by publishers for not fitting preconceived genre notions or market profiles or any other arbitrary metric?

You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs.

But to be fair, in an internet connected world there are awesome possibilities for midlist authors to keep creating new works for their fans despite having been dropped by their publisher because sales were not good enough. Fan favorites could get new opportunities when they can sell their ebooks directly to readers without a middle man. But still, if I'm looking for new authors I will disregard self published books or anything from vanity presses. If it's not good enough for a real publisher, I'm not going to waste my time with it.
 

Korey

Member
Also, I'm confused...aren't publishers the ones that actually make/produce the books, not just print them? Why would they go out of business?
 

spwolf

Member
And how many stories have we heard by now about extremely well regarded, successful books previously being rejected countless times by publishers for not fitting preconceived genre notions or market profiles or any other arbitrary metric?

so death of publisher is going to help them? how?
They can self publish already... and it is extremely hard to do well with self published books.

death of traditional book publishing will make things only worse.
 

Blackhead

Redarse
Also, I'm confused...aren't publishers the ones that actually make/produce the books, not just print them? Why would they go out of business?

Like many struggling businesses, book publishers are cutting costs and trimming work forces. Yes, electronic books are booming, sometimes profitably, but not many publishers want e-books to dominate print books. Amazon’s chief executive, Jeffrey P. Bezos, wants to cut out the middleman — that is, traditional publishers — by publishing e-books directly.
.
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Also, I'm confused...aren't publishers the ones that actually make/produce the books, not just print them? Why would they go out of business?

Like many struggling businesses, book publishers are cutting costs and trimming work forces. Yes, electronic books are booming, sometimes profitably, but not many publishers want e-books to dominate print books. Amazon’s chief executive, Jeffrey P. Bezos, wants to cut out the middleman — that is, traditional publishers — by publishing e-books directly.

Amazon's kindle is most popular ereader in the US. If you want to buy ebooks, you can only get them from the Amazon store. Publishers don't want a future where Amazon has become the only place for ebooks, that's a scary monopoly.
 
Good. Publishers of media is an outmoded idea that needs to go away. This is just more of the content industry attempting to bend the market to their will rather than accepting change and learning how to profit from it
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
so death of publisher is going to help them? how?
They can self publish already... and it is extremely hard to do well with self published books.

death of traditional book publishing will make things only worse.

If the market changes and traditional publishers are marginalized, the stigma of self-publishing will address itself.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
If the market changes and traditional publishers are marginalized, the stigma of self-publishing will address itself.

I don't think the stigma of being a self published book is why they have difficulty selling well. I doubt people look at the logo on the spine and go "well this seemed interesting, but its not from a big name house so I'll pass"
 

Timbuktu

Member
Amazon's kindle is most popular ereader in the US. If you want to buy ebooks, you can only get them from the Amazon store. Publishers don't want a future where Amazon has become the only place for ebooks, that's a scary monopoly.

I wouldn't either.

Self-publishing isn't really the answer for everyone, i would rather authors have the resources to spend time on their books.
 

loosus

Banned
When the "middlemen" disappear, you will save a whopping 5% on your books, Amazon will get richer, and unemployment will skyrocket. Win win situation!
 

giga

Member
Amazon's kindle is most popular ereader in the US. If you want to buy ebooks, you can only get them from the Amazon store. Publishers don't want a future where Amazon has become the only place for ebooks, that's a scary monopoly.
Is this a hypothetical situation you're predicting? Because it's certainly not true for the market today…
 
When the "middlemen" disappear, you will save a whopping 5% on your books, Amazon will get richer, and unemployment will skyrocket. Win win situation!

Amazon employs no one apparently. Also please explain how it is good and desirable for jobs to exist that no one needs anymore.
 

loosus

Banned
Is this a hypothetical situation you're predicting? Because it's certainly not true for the market today…

He's not too far from the truth because it seems like whenever I want an e-book, I have to go to fucking Amazon for it. B&N's selection is not as good for some reason.

Amazon employs no one apparently. Also please explain how it is good and desirable for jobs to exist that no one needs anymore.
When it comes to their book-publishing division? Compared to the traditional industry, they might as well employ nobody. And jobs that nobody needs, anymore? Can't believe people still believe in this "EFFICIENCY ABOVE ALL ELSE RAWR" shit in the year 2012. Unemployment hasn't exactly been good and desirable.
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Publishers are not some evil mindless entity. And self publishing is not every artists magic fantasy dream.
I'm uneasy at the idea of them disappearing.

Yep. Publishers have editors to make books publishable, they have marketing departments to promote books in the media, they translate books from foreign authors. If publishers become marginalized, the whole book industry will become marginalized. In fact, the whole idea of reading books for enjoyment could become marginalized. It's good that books are still important enough that there are physical libraries and book stores.
 
Yep. Publishers have editors to make books publishable, they have marketing departments to promote books in the media, they translate books from foreign authors. If publishers become marginalized, the whole book industry will become marginalized. In fact, the whole idea of reading books for enjoyment could become marginalized. It's good that books are still important enough that there are physical libraries and book stores.

I see your point but I don't know why editors and translators need to be a part of a publishing company to be successful
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I mean, don't get me wrong, the fact that the internet has enabled self publishing to be even more viable then in the past is great. But I do not think it is a be-all end-all solution. It works for some situations and not as well for others.


I see your point but I don't know why editors and translators need to be a part of a publishing company to be successful
So if the publishing companies retain all of their current functions (editing, translation, promotion, etc) except for actually printing the physical books should they be called something different?
 

giga

Member
He's not too far from the truth because it seems like whenever I want an e-book, I have to go to fucking Amazon for it. B&N's selection is not as good for some reason.
What device do you use to read ebooks? Have you tried Google Books, Kobo, or if you use an iOS device, the iBookstore?
 

spwolf

Member
If the market changes and traditional publishers are marginalized, the stigma of self-publishing will address itself.

and how will people who cant market their books right now, do better without publishers?
there is a reason major authors sign up with publishers, even if they could do it on the name strength alone.

All the self published authors dream of getting published by major publisher.

you cant spend 90% of your time marketing your book and expect to write one as well.
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
He's not too far from the truth because it seems like whenever I want an e-book, I have to go to fucking Amazon for it. B&N's selection is not as good for some reason.

This whole ebook thing is one big mess if you want to keep it legal. If you have a Nook, you can only buy ebooks from B&N. With a Kindle you're limited to Amazon. And if you've got something else (Sony reader), you're limited to a few other internet bookshops. It gets worse when you're outside of the US/UK and you want to buy English language ebooks. And then there's the DRM and high prices (why is a physical book almost always cheaper than the ebook?)

Physical book are easy. You can buy a new or second hand copy from any bookstore in the world and they'll be happy to send it you. When you want to buy the electronic version you're forced to jump through so many hoops, you're going to find the illegal route damn attractive at some point.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
I don't think the stigma of being a self published book is why they have difficulty selling well. I doubt people look at the logo on the spine and go "well this seemed interesting, but its not from a big name house so I'll pass"

Logo on the spine? We're talking about the digital distribution future here.

Self-published books face these issues:

-"If it's self-published it means it was rejected by the big publishers which means it probably isn't any good." If we move to a self-publishing status quo that will be addressed.

-Lack of consumer awareness. Big publishers will support something they pick up, spend money marketing it. However since they're shouldering that burden and taking risk, they get almost all of the reward when it's a success. In a digital self-publishing ecosystem, other mechanics are in place to get eyeballs on products, like consumer ratings and marketplace spotlights and sales, as it is for digital distro apps/games.

-Quality control. I'm not too concerned, given what already gets published by big corporate at the moment.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
-"If it's self-published it means it was rejected by the big publishers which means it probably isn't any good." If we move to a self-publishing status quo that will be addressed.

I'm not sure how much of an issue this is. I don't think people are aware of publishers, certainly not enough to notice that something is self published unless its explicitly specified as so.

Hm, I'm going out with friends today, I'm going to ask them how many publishers they can name and see if the average is higher then one or two (I expect a lot of answers of "Random House and...um...")
 

Tobor

Member
I would love a self publishing future, but that's not where we're headed. We're headed for a "All major authors signed to exclusive publishing deals with Amazon" future. Hopefully I'm wrong, but the current trend is not encouraging.
 

giga

Member
This whole ebook thing is one big mess if you want to keep it legal. If you have a Nook, you can only buy ebooks from B&N. With a Kindle you're limited to Amazon. And if you've got something else (Sony reader), you're limited to a few other internet bookshops. It gets worse when you're outside of the US/UK and you want to buy English language ebooks. And then there's the DRM and high prices (why is a physical book almost always cheaper than the ebook?)

Physical book are easy. You can buy a new or second hand copy from any bookstore in the world and they'll be happy to send it you. When you want to buy the electronic version you're forced to jump through so many hoops, you're going to find the illegal route damn attractive at some point.
Google ebooks supports Nook and Sony Reader.

http://support.google.com/books/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=179863
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
I'm not sure how much of an issue this is. I don't think people are aware of publishers, certainly not enough to notice that something is self published unless its explicitly specified as so.

Hm, I'm going out with friends today, I'm going to ask them how many publishers they can name and see if the average is higher then one or two (I expect a lot of answers of "Random House and...um...")

You're again talking about traditional book sales, not the ebook market, where it does matter when you click to something on the Kindle Store and see that it's obviously a hokey self-published affair for $0.99.

Those sorts of impressions matter when you're dealing with a medium with a significant time investment for actually consuming.
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.

The latest Google eBooks are not available for sale in your location, yet...
Google is working with publishers around the world to let you buy the latest ebooks from top authors. In the meantime, you can still browse millions of free and public domain Google eBooks and read them effortlessly across your devices ...

This is what I hate about ebooks. I can easily buy *ANY DAMN BOOK I WANT* from any place in the world (with international shipping), but in this brave new world of electronic publishing there are countless barriers. Fuck that shit.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
You're again talking about traditional book sales, not the ebook market, where it does matter when you click to something on the Kindle Store and see that it's obviously a hokey self-published affair for $0.99.

Those sorts of impressions matter when you're dealing with a medium with a significant time investment for actually consuming.

And you think that when self publishing becomes mainstream the impression of hokeyness will go away? Or people will just become acclimated to it?

(these are honest questions, no snark implied)
 

JGS

Banned
Amazon buying B&N B&M stores could work although it...won't.

I'm pretty old school although I have a newfound love for e-books. However, I won't pay full price for an e-book and always going to the best bookstore in the world for real book purchases- Joseph Beth.
 
I used to spend every Sunday with my daughter going to a Chapters book store and picking up a few books. Then when the HP Touchpad was selling for $99 I picked us up each one, and we started buying books on Amazon. A month or so ago she discovered that Amazon sells hundreds of books each day for $0, so both of us now just check the free books thread at Amazon and pick up ones that look interesting or by authors we like.

We now don't spend a dime on books compared to years ago when we spent hundreds of dollars.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I used to spend every Sunday with my daughter going to a Chapters book store and picking up a few books. Then when the HP Touchpad was selling for $99 I picked us up each one, and we started buying books on Amazon. A month or so ago she discovered that Amazon sells hundreds of books each day for $0, so both of us now just check the free books thread at Amazon and pick up ones that look interesting or by authors we like.

We now don't spend a dime on books compared to years ago when we spent hundreds of dollars.

Er...really? Are these things published in the last couple of decades? That doesn't seem like a very good thing...
 

WowBaby

Member
What’s more, sales of older books — the so-called backlist, which has traditionally accounted for anywhere from 30 to 50 percent of the average big publisher’s sales — would suffer terribly.

This is absolutely wrong. E-books are where backlists should be getting the most sales, especially in the romance genre. They need to hurry and digitize all those out of print books, and advertise them.

What publishers count on from bookstores is the browsing effect. Surveys indicate that only a third of the people who step into a bookstore and walk out with a book actually arrived with the specific desire to buy one.

“That display space they have in the store is really one of the most valuable places that exists in this country for communicating to the consumer that a book is a big deal,” said Madeline McIntosh, president of sales, operations and digital for Random House.

This is a great argument for those companies that complain they are becoming a show room for Amazon. However, if they were smart they would use this to their advantage. That's right, treat their stores more like showrooms for their products. Offer deals for customers who enter the store and purchase on the spot, whether it's hardback or digital copy.

"Now, hopefully, we can figure out how to make that go full circle and see how the e-books can sell the print books.”
.

Almost as soon as Amazon's Kindle took off, customers have been asking for print/ebook bundles of the same book. Publishers need to get their heads out of their asses and listen to their customers. People are willing to pay a bit more for both. Why not sell the print copy/ebook bundle at a price just a little above full retail price of the print book. If the book is that good, I would pay the $25 print price and maybe and extra $3-5 for that digital copy that doesn't cost them much to produce. In this fashion, not only is everyone making more money, but the sales numbers go up.


Publishers need to stop fighting the inevitable. They need to change their business model to compete with it.
 

JGS

Banned
I used to spend every Sunday with my daughter going to a Chapters book store and picking up a few books. Then when the HP Touchpad was selling for $99 I picked us up each one, and we started buying books on Amazon. A month or so ago she discovered that Amazon sells hundreds of books each day for $0, so both of us now just check the free books thread at Amazon and pick up ones that look interesting or by authors we like.

We now don't spend a dime on books compared to years ago when we spent hundreds of dollars.
That is very similar to what I do. For classics that aren't free I go to Half-Priced Books, & then for normal books I go to my independent. Variety is a wonderful thing so I wished everything stayed the same.
 

Bboy AJ

My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
I always wonder why a loss of jobs is a valid argument for hindering societal progress. There will be new, different jobs created somewhere else. We shouldn't hold society back for fear of unemployment.
 
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