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[Relix]

Books will become like a Apps Marketplace. I am all for it. Besides, people will weed out the bad stuff.

And if Twilight can get published anything can!

 

[giga]

This is what I hate about ebooks. I can easily buy *ANY DAMN BOOK I WANT* from any place in the world (with international shipping), but in this brave new world of electronic publishing there are countless barriers. Fuck that shit.

I can't help it that you live in a third world country!

How about buying an epub from B&N (or whoever sells internationally) and then stripping the DRM to transfer to your reader? Calibre can also convert to .mobi or a plethora of other formats if your device doesn't accept epub.

 

[The Technomancer]

Books will become like a Apps Marketplace. I am all for it. Besides, people will weed out the bad stuff.

Please god no. Maybe if its like Steam...

 

[Blackhead]

Yes, but I thought publishers were analogous to record labels or movie studios...they allow the book to happen in the first place by providing production assistance and funding

It's cheaper to fund a blockbuster novel than it is to fund a blockbuster movie or record.

 

[Cereal KiIIer]

Logo on the spine? We're talking about the digital distribution future here.

Self-published books face these issues:

-"If it's self-published it means it was rejected by the big publishers which means it probably isn't any good." If we move to a self-publishing status quo that will be addressed.

-Lack of consumer awareness. Big publishers will support something they pick up, spend money marketing it. However since they're shouldering that burden and taking risk, they get almost all of the reward when it's a success. In a digital self-publishing ecosystem, other mechanics are in place to get eyeballs on products, like consumer ratings and marketplace spotlights and sales, as it is for digital distro apps/games.

-Quality control. I'm not too concerned, given what already gets published by big corporate at the moment.

Amazon could become a publisher and do all this.

 

[Korey]

They should make a Netflix for books

Or maybe Spotify

 

[JGS]

I always wonder why a loss of jobs is a valid argument for hindering societal progress. There will be new, different jobs created somewhere else. We shouldn't hold society back for fear of unemployment.

I agree with this but I'm concerned with a loss of a preferred reading style. E-books & physical books are pretty different from each other and it would be a shame if the only way futre books are made is simply in electronic form. The only reason why i like e-books now is because of Kindle's screen. I hate reading on a backlit screen or monitor.

 

[WowBaby]

I always wonder why a loss of jobs is a valid argument for hindering societal progress. There will be new, different jobs created somewhere else. We shouldn't hold society back for fear of unemployment.

True. I see a future for showrooms for products sold only online. This is real life, hands on, advertising. The manufacturers would pay advertising fees to have their products showcased in person. The store employees, rather than being cashiers, would be product demonstrators, fully knowledgeable in those products as well as competitor products. You go to the store, see it, turn it on, play with it and ask questions. After you are convinced of how much you need it, go to the order booth, place your order and have it delivered in two days to your home.

 

[Cheech]

That entire article contained only two fleeting references to Apple.

I'll admit I don't have my finger on the pulse of your typical book consumer, but people I've talked to have the opinion that iBooks are a ripoff compared to B&N/Amazon e-books.

Plus, e-ink. Honestly, I would think hard about an e-ink iPad.

 

[Goro Majima]

They should make a Netflix for books

Or maybe Spotify

Amazon Prime lets members "borrow" certain books for their Kindle.

 

[Tobor]

Amazon could become a publisher and do all this.

Amazon is already a publisher. Everyone interested in this topic should read this:

So Amazon, pretty much since they started selling books, has been selling them for razor thin or zero margin. We sell them books at 50% of the retail price. You’ll notice that popular books are usually selling for more than 50% off. So they’re actually losing money on them. For years Borders and Barnes and Noble maintained that this was unsustainable, but the tactic succeeded in putting Borders out of business, putting BN on the ropes, and destroying hundreds of indie stores. It also lowered customers’ perception of what a book *should* cost.

When ebooks started, we were pricing ebooks at the same price as the print book, and Amazon was selling them all for $9.99. So they were losing like $3-$4 per book. And they weren’t doing it simply to move Kindles, since they don’t actually make any money on the Kindle unit sales. Now with the “agency model” we get to set the ebook price and Amazon simply takes 30% of that.

We all kinda assumed that Amazon was either using books as a loss leader for other things (like getting people to sign up for Prime or simply gathering customer data), or was maybe planning on raising the prices they sell books for once BN and Borders were eliminated as competition. But I think they actually intend to keep print books at their current prices, and they want ebooks to be even cheaper. What they’re actually targeting is the publishers’ margin.

Long-term there’s no future in printed books. They’ll be like vinyl: pricey and for collectors only. 95% of people will read digitally. Everybody in publishing knows this but most are in denial about it because moving to becoming a digital company means laying off like 40% of our staffs. And the barriers to entry fall, too. We simply don’t want to think about it.

Amazon is thinking about it, though, and they’re targeting the publishers directly.

Publishers like to pretend that we make our money from discovering unknown talents for small advances and selling millions of their books. That’s a very small part of our business. The bestselling books are all written by celebs, by people with huge platforms, by fiction writers with a long history of bestselling books, or by people who do a proposal that’s on its surface brilliant. In short, there’s a bidding war among the publishers over the big books. We all know what the good books are–it all comes down to how much of an advance we’re willing to pay for them. The hotly fought-for books are the ones that sell. And while we might not make huge profit % on these, we make big profit $ on these. They keep the lights on by covering overhead. Better to cover our fixed costs by going all in on a few big books than trying to buy dozens of mid-list books.

But in recent years, as book sales have declined, the advances for the biggest books have gone down proportionally, too. What used to be a $1 million book is now a $400,000 book. Publishers are thinking, “OK, we’ll move less copies but we’ll pay less for them, so we’ll survive.” Enter Amazon’s print publishing arm. They hired this guy Larry Kirshbaum to run it–he’s a savvy vet with 30+ years of publishing experience–and they have some editors, too. And they’ve been paying a ton of money for books.

I saw this [redacted] proposal a few weeks back. It was okay–[same redacted author] is an asshole but [redacted] has a certain following and it would probably be a bestseller. Bestseller now means selling 20,000 copies, so I was thinking of offering like [hundreds of thousand] for it. But Amazon had already bid $1 million for it. A similar thing happened with a [redacted] memoir a few months back. Traditional publishers are snickering, “Look at stupid Amazon–overpaying for books!”

But Amazon isn’t stupid. They’re overpaying intentionally to keep advances high (and high advances will bankrupt publishers). And they’re also taking away all the authors who actually move units. They gave Seth Godin really favorable terms on a deal. Only a matter of time before they snag a James Patterson or some other big genre fiction name.

We can’t pay $1 million for books anymore. Amazon could probably afford to lose $20 million/year in their publishing arm just to put the other publishers out of business. I think that’s what they’re trying to do–throw money around in an industry that doesn’t have any, until Amazon becomes not only the only place where you buy books, but the only place that publishes books, too.

So rather than getting a 30% of an ebook (with the other 70% being split between the publisher and author), they’ll be getting a 70% cut (with the other 30% going right to the author). Funny thing is that it’s actually better for authors.

To be honest, publishing is a quaint little industry based on romance and low profit margins. But now we’re in Amazon’s sights, and they’re going to kill us.

http://pandodaily.com/2012/01/17/co...n-amazons-sights-and-theyre-going-to-kill-us/

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Amazon could become a publisher and do all this.

And that is the major concern. That they would literally become the only game out there.

EDIT: Just read Tobor's post. Shit like that should scare anyone. Big guy throwing around the money to destroy all the others. Then what? When they have no enemies left to kill, what will happen? They wont throw their money around because they wont need to, and then it all withers again.

 

[WowBaby]

And that is the major concern. That they would literally become the only game out there.

That's why you don't fight Amazon. You compete with them.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

That's why you don't fight Amazon. You compete with them.

Uh, isn't that the same thing?

 

[brotkasten]

Barnes & Noble, the giant that helped put so many independent booksellers out of business and that now finds itself locked in the fight of its life.

Awwww. Karma's a bitch, isn't it?

 

[DarkFlow]

That entire article contained only two fleeting references to Apple.

Because they are a very minior player in the ebook world. Yeah they sell a lot of ipads, but iBooks is not doing all that great. Most people use the kindle app on the iPad that I know.

 

[EviLore]

Printing books is expensive, and you need to print a large supply of them before you know whether they will sell, then distribute them to thousands of locations around the world.

Abandon print, and risk decreases tremendously while margins increase tremendously, but it's too drastic a change in business model for the current publishers, so they're probably screwed.

 

[giga]

I'll admit I don't have my finger on the pulse of your typical book consumer, but people I've talked to have the opinion that iBooks are a ripoff compared to B&N/Amazon e-books.

Plus, e-ink. Honestly, I would think hard about an e-ink iPad.

I'm going through the top paid books list and both seem to have mostly similar prices. I'm not a typical book consumer either though other than college textbooks.

Most guys probably go to Amazon over Apple though because they support PCs, Kindles, and Android.

 

[WowBaby]

Uh, isn't that the same thing?

Not necessarily. They should not be wasting their time trying to bring Amazon down. They should be spending their time learning from Amazon and trying to offer better products. They can start by discontinuing their price fixing and instead giving me more value for my money. That will make me (the consumer) happy, and give themselves and their authors a blacker bottom line.
For example, they are so worried about "devaluing" books, that they don't see that lower prices means more sales and more money for everyone. If the author is that good, his work will not lose value.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I think my favorite part is having an OP about the importance of maintaining a delivery medium for content while copying and pasting the entire article lol

 

[Wiktor]

Publishers dug their own grave. Screwing up the markets, ignoring the ebooks and then conspiring with Apple to increase the prices of ebooks to ridiculous levels.
I don't want them to die out, but in reality their future as huge powerhourses is done. They need to evolve or face oblivion.

 

[linsivvi]

Printing books is expensive, and you need to print a large supply of them before you know whether they will sell, then distribute them to thousands of locations around the world.

Abandon print, and risk decreases tremendously while margins increase tremendously, but it's too drastic a change in business model for the current publishers, so they're probably screwed.

But they are not fighting ebooks. The publishers just want both to exist and they were actually happy that the Nook is doing well. The real danger is that if B&N and publishers all go away Amazon will have a monopoly on both publishing and retail.

Wall Street howled, and Barnes & Noble’s stock still hasn’t fully recovered. A bit of good news for the company is that, thanks to the Nook, it’s been grabbing e-book business from Amazon. Mr. Lynch said Barnes & Noble now held about 27 percent of the market, a number that publishers confirm gleefully. Amazon has at least 60 percent.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

Er...really? Are these things published in the last couple of decades? That doesn't seem like a very good thing...

Here's todays list. This is today's thread on it, where people post what's decent.

 

[Wiktor]

But they are not fighting ebooks. .

That's only because they've tried and lost that fight.

 

[linsivvi]

That's only because they've tried and lost that fight.

Way to selectively quote and miss the whole point of not wanting a monopoly.

 

[WowBaby]

Printing books is expensive, and you need to print a large supply of them before you know whether they will sell, then distribute them to thousands of locations around the world.

Abandon print, and risk decreases tremendously while margins increase tremendously, but it's too drastic a change in business model for the current publishers, so they're probably screwed.

It's mind boggling. We are sitting here watching them destroy themselves. Meanwhile, the indie authors like Amanda Hocking are rising to the top some selling over a million Kindle books in a relatively short time.

 

[JGS]

But they are not fighting ebooks. The publishers just want both to exist and they were actually happy that the Nook is doing well. The real danger is that if B&N and publishers all go away Amazon will have a monopoly on both publishing and retail.

I can't see Amazon wanting their model across the whole business. They may do a deal with Stephen King, but there are a bunch of A list writers out there at any given time and they will not sign with all of them nor will the writers accept what they give to average Joe writer out there.

The publishers will never go away and Barnes & Noble faces as much competition from Walmart- the true enemy of all things retail.

The publishers have to be more humble though.

 

[Wiktor]

Way to selectively quote and miss the whole point of not wanting a monopoly.

I don't want monopoly, but this does nothing to change the fact that publishers' own stupidity pushed them into this situation.

Plus, aren't we overeacting? It might not be ideal, but all the fear is about situation that will be repeat of iTunes scenario and somehow music didn't die because of iTunes dominance.

 

[GK86]

Meh, if it wasn't for Amazon, I wouldn't have even brought an e-book.

 

[linsivvi]

I can't see Amazon wanting their model across the whole business. They may do a deal with Stephen King, but there are a bunch of A list writers out there at any given time and they will not sign with all of them nor will the writers accept what they give to average Joe writer out there.

The publishers will never go away and Barnes & Noble faces as much competition from Walmart- the true enemy of all things retail.

The publishers have to be more humble though.

I hope you're right. I just think it'll be better for everyone if there are several big players out there that allow you to buy ebooks. It's the same reason people root for Amazon to succeed in digital music and video, because nobody wants Apple to be the only place where you can get music and movies online.

 

[WowBaby]

Meh, if it wasn't for Amazon, I wouldn't have even brought an e-book.

Exactly. I bought my first ebook, Pillars of the Earth, on my Kindle. Amazon took books to a higher level. I would even dare say it helped make reading a bit more "cool." They should be kissing Amazon's butt.

 

[JGS]

I hope you're right. I just think it'll be better for everyone if there are several big players out there that allow you to buy ebooks. It's the same reason people root for Amazon to succeed in digital music and video, because nobody wants Apple to be the only place where you can get music and movies online.

To me, the simple solution is to make the paper books more appealing. For the cost of a paper book at full retail, you get the physical and digital. Otherwise, you are charged a slightly lower rate for the digital.

I know I'm missing all kinds of data and whatnot about the cons of this model, but I have a hard time seeing this actually hurting the publishers.

To be fair, I think the book publishers are doing a much better job of adapting to digital than the movie or recording industry did.

The difference is you can easily make a digital copy of the physical media (For your personal enjoyment of course) even if the industries don't want you to. It is very difficult to do the same with books without the publisher's help.

 

[Ceebs]

To be fair, I think the book publishers are doing a much better job of adapting to digital than the movie or recording industry did.

 

[Wiktor]

I hope you're right. I just think it'll be better for everyone if there are several big players out there that allow you to buy ebooks. It's the same reason people root for Amazon to succeed in digital music and video, because nobody wants Apple to be the only place where you can get music and movies online.

But the problem is, you need to be really far sighted to root for publishers. Short term all publishers are doing is making ebook readers lives miserable. So it's not hard to see how many people find it hard to root for them.

 

[Good Job Bob]

I use iBooks because it's the best way to read books on an iPhone/iPad.

 

[Sirpopopop]

So if the publishing companies retain all of their current functions (editing, translation, promotion, etc) except for actually printing the physical books should they be called something different?

Technically, I don't think publishers "print the physical books."

I wouldn't be surprised if some contract manufacturing company does it.

 

[WowBaby]

To me, the simple solution is to make the paper books more appealing. For the cost of a paper book at full retail, you get the physical and digital. Otherwise, you are charged a slightly lower rate for the digital.

I know I'm missing all kinds of data and whatnot about the cons of this model, but I have a hard time seeing this actually hurting the publishers.

I have stated this before, and many readers have been clamoring for this for years. There is nothing better than to have, say a history or reference book both in print and ebook version. It would be worth the extra cost, but publishers are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

 

[zou]

It's ok guys, now that many ebooks are more expensive than paperbacks (and even hardcovers sometimes), the industry is safe.

When the "middlemen" disappear, you will save a whopping 5% on your books, Amazon will get richer, and unemployment will skyrocket. Win win situation!

Funny, before, when Amazon was selling them directly, I used to be able to get most books at or below $9.99 and I hardly remember ever paying $2-5 more for the ebook version. Now with the agencies running the show and Amazon out of the picture, I'm seeing new releases at 12.99 - 14.99 all the time.

Thank god someone is watching out for the consumer and putting an end to Amazon's reign of terror.

 

[Sirpopopop]

I always wonder why a loss of jobs is a valid argument for hindering societal progress. There will be new, different jobs created somewhere else. We shouldn't hold society back for fear of unemployment.

Like where?

To be blunt, only one word needs to be said:

Automation.

Capitalism is based upon the market requiring human labor to make the wheel go around. With automation, you can cut the human labor portion of it out.

Followed by the following sentence:

The lack of ambition by both parties to have government pick up the slack. (See: Obama's disastrously stupid plan for the space program.)

 

[Shurs]

I use iBooks because it's the best way to read books on an iPhone/iPad.

There's really not much of a difference between iBooks and the Kindle app.

 

[szaromir]

The way I see it, when publishers go down, the self-published authors will still need editors, so rather than heading to traditional publishers (since they'll no longer exist) they'll head to now independent and self employed editors. Eventually the best/most successful editors will become brands of themselves, hire employees, grow their business and will essentially become publishers, but fully adapted to the digital distribution era. There might be some bumps down the road, but it will all sort itself out.

Apple being the most prominent player in the DD era might be a concern, but I think there will always be alternatives, just like there are alternatives to Steam or iTunes.

 

[Sirpopopop]

But the problem is, you need to be really far sighted to root for publishers. Short term all publishers are doing is making ebook readers lives miserable. So it's not hard to see how many people find it hard to root for them.

I would have to say you need to be really inhumane to root for a sweatshop operation that gouges the taxpayers like Amazon.

Then again, I don't get much of the defense for the big Silicon-Valley companies on GAF.

I think Apple & Amazon both participate in some abominable practices. I can certainly see Facebook practicing abominable practices if given the opportunity.

I don't know what to think of Google, but corporate track records, as a whole, aren't that good. Therefore, I remain skeptical of Google.

 

[RubxQub]

Why have there been a lot of threads with "(NYTIMES)" in the titles?

 

[WowBaby]

Why have there been a lot of threads with "(NYTIMES)" in the titles?

NYTIMES is occupying NeoGAF. They've infiltrated the site, will soon take over and charge reader fees.

 

[BobsRevenge]

Like where?

To be blunt, only one word needs to be said:

Automation.

Capitalism is based upon the market requiring human labor to make the wheel go around. With automation, you can cut the human labor portion of it out.

Followed by the following sentence:

The lack of ambition by both parties to have government pick up the slack. (See: Obama's disastrously stupid plan for the space program.)

Yeah, we're losing a ton of jobs to technology. You can't even argue that. You have to find another way.

 

[Phoenix]

When the "middlemen" disappear, you will save a whopping 5% on your books, Amazon will get richer, and unemployment will skyrocket. Win win situation!

Wow. So I have an IOS development book coming out with a publisher next month and while I like my publisher and they do provide extremely valuable services, in a self-publish model all you will find I'd that the publishers will become service providers or a strong after market will develop.

The talents needed to develop a book are larger than one person just like the talents to develop music are larger than one person. With Apple's new move I have considered rolling out some books on the self publish front, but there are still things like media, covers, editing, etc. that I would turn to from the larger market.

It's no different than game development. On IOS I can roll my own game and leave out the traditional publishers, but I require loads of diverse talents - they are just all independent contractors (a world that I saw as very much a possible future 10 years ago, less traditional employment more independent skilled labor setting its own wage).

As for the quality question posed earlier, a publisher in no way increases quality - it just limits options. They won't publish every manuscript they get and many times it's because of what's already on the market.

 

[giga]

There's really not much of a difference between iBooks and the Kindle app.

Font selection man, fonts.

But I really do wish the actual e-ink readers had proper app stores so BN or Kobo could put their content on them directly. Stripping drm and converting is there, but that will never catch on with regular consumers. That's not a problem on tablets.

 

[WowBaby]

...a publisher in no way increases quality - it just limits options. They won't publish every manuscript they get and many times it's because of what's already on the market.

That's a good perspective. By keeping an author out of the game both the author and potential customers lose. And by keeping Amazon out of the game, they have the potential of sealing out a huge readership base.

 

[Vyer]

Amazon is already a publisher. Everyone interested in this topic should read this:



http://pandodaily.com/2012/01/17/co...n-amazons-sights-and-theyre-going-to-kill-us/

Damn, that's some cutthroat stuff right there.

 

[Diatribe1974]

Hey eBook sellers! Want me to buy your eBooks? Let me buy it once, then redownload it as many times as I want (as I might change my eReader of choice over the years, but not in a pirating sense either) and you damn well better be making it worth my while, since you're cutting out some honestly great features of a book (namely the ability to hold the book, touch the pages, ect), so let's get those prices in line! Seriously, an 8.99$ book on the shelves should NOT be 7.99$ for an ebook directly from you. Cut the shit.