Ether_Snake
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No point in putting boots there, eventually the US would have to leave anyway and it would start all over. Stronger local governments are needed.
The unfortunate truth is that many of the Gulf States' wealthiest citizens (with the exception of Oman) condone or financially support the actions of ISIS.
Bernie is right. Its the gulf countries that need to contain Islamic State , for their own benefit as they want to stretch their middle eastern borders.
Of course, yet this thread is about American intervention. Regardless, up to this point, the current ground troops haven't been effective enough anyway. Even looking past the death toll and the amount of territory under ISIS control, as an ancient historian, my heart bleeds. I see no reason to think that, if nothing changes, the conflict won't still be ongoing for another decade. I'm not criticising inaction, by the way -- I'm just frustrated that there's no obvious solution that can be followed.
Yet generally keeping a distance when change has to take place on-site. Most definitely for the best, and most likely following sound military strategy, but what they're doing is not effectively destroying the organisation. They may use a drone to take out a high-ranking leader, but another will replace him. There's no end in sight, and no chance of a diplomatic conclusion.
Yeah, certain parts of the Right are chomping at the bit to go to war with someone.
Remember pre 2012 and the idiocy about going to war with Iran if Romney won? Now there's an actual justifiable target, and the Republicans are going to hammer Clinton about that the entire cycle.
If ISIS somehow hits the States? Might be game over for the Democrats as war fever takes over.
What a stupid suggestion. I'm sure you're joking given the "from orbit" bit but it's still fucking stupid.
Anyway, the problem is difficult and multifaceted. I'm skeptical that ISIS can ever be fully wiped out, or even effectively neutralized via strikes or ground forces.
But you sure can get them to shut up, look at japan ww2
The Nazis were crushed and obliterated but Neo-Nazism survives and, as we are seeing now, fascism and ultra nationalism are once again beginning to reappear in Europe.
Whatever man
Beat them hard enough that they shut up and fade back into obscurity, ala japan WW2. They'll never be wiped out but they'll think twice before doing shit like that again.
Word. Once the fighting is over and the dust settles you are stuck in a devastated wasteland with millions of people living below the line of poverty. Do you just leave them there to die or will you feed them for the next decade? These kinds of people have very little drive to restore the infrastructure that they lost and I doubt anybody would be willing to rebuild the Middle East.
Whatever man
Beat them hard enough that they shut up and fade back into obscurity, ala japan WW2. They'll never be wiped out but they'll think twice before doing shit like that again.
Alls we need to do is show up in Dabiq, call 'em out & then kick their asses with our latest laser guns & what have you.
I am mostly joking but still.
I think to tackle the issue it needs to be looked at realistically not as a problem that is facing us (USA, Europe etc), but one that is facing the people of the region. Not that we have no responsibility, but to acknowledge for a sec that we aren't even the primary victims.
If I was playing god though, I'd focus military efforts on liberating slaves, sabotaging infrastructure, and generally diminishing and belittling the caliphates functional reality.
Whatever man
Beat them hard enough that they shut up and fade back into obscurity, ala japan WW2. They'll never be wiped out but they'll think twice before doing shit like that again.
Yeah, you're right. The organization that doesn't fear death is all the sudden going to start fearing death and respect the Western world because we "beat them hard enough."
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about whatsoever.
Yeah, let's just punch everyone in the face over and over until they stop doing stuff. That's all the nuance I need!
Your grasp of geopolitical matters is breathtaking.
If there is another attack like this or larger in the west or especially the US, there is going to be war no matter who is in office. There will be very few that will have the view of just more airstrikes and percieved status quo.Most of the candidates are hawkish so it's pretty much a guarantee that we're going to see a rise in pro-war sentiment especially if another attack like the Paris one happens in another ally country (or the United States). My hope is that we don't go to war but I think whichever candidate we elect will send the US into another war. Hopefully I'm wrong.
I would love to see what you guys would suggest be the best option to deal with these scums of the earth , oh social justice warriors. Enlighten me with your wisdom.
I would love to see what you guys would suggest be the best option to deal with these scums of the earth , oh social justice warriors. Enlighten me with your wisdom.
Whatever man
Beat them hard enough that they shut up and fade back into obscurity, ala japan WW2. They'll never be wiped out but they'll think twice before doing shit like that again.
I would love to see what you guys would suggest be the best option to deal with these scums of the earth , oh social justice warriors. Enlighten me with your wisdom.
No one has a solution besides vague solutions.
Are we only allowed to call your solution stupid as fuck if we solve the problem ourselves?
If you propose going to Mars by tying yourself to a bunch of balloons, are we only allowed to call it the dumbest fucking thing ever if we submit our own Mars mission plan?
If the answer to stopping terrorism was obvious then we wouldn't still be dealing with it for many decades. Keep in mind terrorism didn't start with 9/11 and goes back several decades before that.
I got nothing, man. Your idea is too good. I don't know why no one else in the world ever thought of "nuke them from orbit" before. That's the kind of outside the box thinking we need in this country.
I would love to see what you guys would suggest be the best option to deal with these scums of the earth , oh social justice warriors. Enlighten me with your wisdom.
Lol what started as a joke, you guys took to heart way to seriously, now I back that joke for real.
Exactly I offered my vague solution so there's that. I don't see anybody else offering there's . I'm not afraid of people disagreeing with my way of thinking.
Lol, you tell em dude! Those damn whiny liberals always overreact so quickly and rashly to people calling for millions of innocent deaths. I'm just glad there are some people like you pushing forward a more moderate response to these calls to violence. We need more restraint it when it comes to people wanting to kill off entire populations.
Not everything in the world is within our capability to solve.Seems like the alternative is hoping someone else sends in ground troops.
I'm against it personally but I really don't see any ideas from the "ground troops are stupid!" camp.
Not everything in the world is within our capability to solve.
Or our responsibility.
I don't even know how this is a liberal vs whatever debate. What military or counter-terrorism expert would say yeah let's just blow it all away?
Sounds like the ghost of Curtis LeMay talking. Although I'd imagine even he would realize he's not fighting a conventional war after 15 years of Afghanistan and Iraq.
If you're proposing that we nuke all states in self-defense, well, you are making a compelling case my friend.But... have you considered what might happen if we nuke them harder?
Not everything in the world is within our capability to solve.
Or our responsibility.
I'm not suggesting we need US troops there but how in the world would anyone stop ISIS without violence? Hit them with pillows until they see the error of their ways?It can't, you can't fight a group like ISIS with violence, it only creates more violence and continues the cycle.
However, as long as the military industrial complex guides US (and ultimately world) policies, nothing will change.
So long as people are oppressed, there will be terrorism. So long as our countries support the people oppressing them, we will be the targets of that terrorism. The long term solution to terrorism is to create societies in which young men have better things to do then blow themselves up for god. As long as we're okay with, and contributing to, the oppression of people, those people are going to hate us, and so long as they have nothing to lose, they're going to be willing to die to make us understand what they're living with daily.
I agree completely. First of all ISIS, like Al Quada before them, would love to see American embroiled in another shitty war. Don't give them that. Don't give them a face to the enemy. Surely the psychology of air strikes - any place, any time - is the equivalent to their techniques of terror over here? Good.
Second, as others have said the western governments have spent any goodwill or nerve westerners might have for another war in the middle east. I was against Iraq. I might've been for going after ISIS, guess I'll never know. I know I'm not, because at this point I honestly don't give a single shit about what happens in or to the middle east. When Syria was heating up, it was all "these guys are good, no those guys are good, and these guys are bad." Like, whoever we ended up supporting would be the better of two (three, four?) evils. It doesn't sound like there are any good guys over there other than the Kurds. I'm exhausted even trying to understand.
Let's just be us, enjoy our free society and keep on defending its freedom.
While I don't know, I'd guess most of the radicalized young men and women born in western nations are disaffected, either because they feel as if they're treated as second class citizens, or they're just those fucked up teens that all cultures have with nothing to latch onto until someone charismatic comes by and and finds a use for them. In America our disaffected youth take guns and shoot up their schools. Elsewhere they strap on a suicide vest and bomb a cafe. You're never going to rid the world of crazy fuckers. But you can reduce the number of people willing to buy into it -- which reduces the power base and reach of the organizations that rely on the misery of their people to produce soldiers.An issue that I have with these analyses is that the majority of Muslims in Western Europe seem hardly oppressed to me. For instance, here in Germanwhere many radicalized Muslims involved in terror attacks grew up or livedthey have the same rights as other citizens, access to social security and education. While there is of course racism against anyone who is not white, we have prominent Muslims in all areas, including leadership positions in politics. Yet it is these Western European countries where many Islamists got radicalized.
Why do people keep saying this.
ISIS has a government, a bureaucracy, a capital city, an infrastructure, a military, it collects taxes and enforces laws.
An issue that I have with these analyses is that the majority of Muslims in Western Europe seem hardly oppressed to me. For instance, here in Germanwhere many radicalized Muslims involved in terror attacks grew up or livedthey have the same rights as other citizens, access to social security and education. While there is of course racism against anyone who is not white, we have prominent Muslims in all areas, including leadership positions in politics. Yet it is these Western European countries where many Islamists got radicalized.
If they do, bombing the hell out of their capital city should be our priority.
The problem is that ISIS is a government that governs captured territory, and it's pretty well-innervated with innocents. And we're not exactly in a WWII scenario, where the scale of death is so great that we simply have to take the gamble that the loss of innocent life will be less, en toto, than the total loss of life that would occur were we to engage in traditional warfare.
Ughh... I should start informing myself on how ISIS operates. This is such a shitty problem. Bomb them? Reach out to the middle eastern world and help them build modern cities. I don't even know anymore.
Ughh... I should start informing myself on how ISIS operates. This is such a shitty problem. Bomb them? Reach out to the middle eastern world and help them build modern cities. I don't even know anymore.
This seems counterproductive.Definitely bomb them. NATO and co. drop leaflets telling civilians to GTFO ahead of bombs when they bomb cities like Raqa.
This seems counterproductive.
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"The message of this leaflet is if you allow yourself to be recruited by Daesh you will find yourself in a meat grinder, said Warren, using the Islamic acronym for the group.
The leaflet shows a room identified by a sign with the arrow as a "Daesh Recruiting Office," and the meat grinder is labelled "Daesh."
..
The leaflets were dropped by a single U.S. Air Force F-15E fighter aircraft carrying a PDU-5B leaflet canister, according to the Pentagon.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-drops-anti-isis-leaflets-syria/story?id=29930980