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[CHEEZMO™]

Free money, obviously.

 

[Bloodbeard]

i never said that did i? nor did i call you fascists. I didnt even say that it was the same thing. go back and look at all my posts. I simply said that there are economic goals that you share with nazis. its not my fault you have something in common with nazis. if you are that uncomfortable with the thought of that, maybe you should look at your own beliefs.

minus_273
This is what Objectivism
does to people
(Today, 02:42 PM)

Yeah....it's all making sense now.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

by someone resolutely stating that they are living in a Fascist state? i'd just say it's not a smart thing to do to a region where that's on the collective memory. Hey tell a Czech how awesome the communists are! you'll be great friends

Most people don't go into Rage mode over someone saying something. Otherwise Westboro Baptist Church would have been beaten into dust by now.

Besides Leftists calling something Fascist is about as common as Rightists calling people Communists. If people went batshit crazy about just that every time, there be a lot more political violence in the world.

It happened, it really happened, someone is seriously correlating the movement to Nazism because he decided that the goals of the Occupy movement are 'socialist' (huh??), and National Socialism has Socialism written in the name, therefore... Occupy = Nazi

All Horses have four legs
all horses are mammals

therefore, all mammals have four legs

Eh, some people are trying to say OWS=Egypt, so the goofiness is going around in equal measure.

 

[ezrarh]

Many small businesses file under S-Corps and yes raising taxes on "millionaires" to "pay their fair share" has been discussed quite widely in Congress. Who do you think they mean by millionaires? S-corp profits get passed through into the owners' personal income tax returns and may push them into higher tax brackets, even though they're not taking extremely large salaries.

What I meant was that Congress isn't going to pass any bill that will raise taxes on anybody at this point in time. The only way I see taxes going up is if Obama chooses to end the Bush taxcuts.

 

[minus_273]

Most people here aren't socialists (although most all do believe at least in mixed economies). I am. So let me tell you how they are different. I am a socialist who believes that workers should control the means of production, rather than their being placed in private individual hands for private profit. That is the essence of socialism (which, it might surprise you to know, is not strictly incompatible with the concept of free markets). The Nazis did not believe that:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Economics

Ergo, Nazis are not socialists. Incidentally, I agree with chichikov that Nazis were not "free market advocates," although capitalism was permitted up to the point that it interfered with Nazi State goals and no further. That's why there is a another term for what Nazis were: fascists.

Next you're going to insist that we reject belief in democracy because of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

Why might a party or entity use a word to characterize itself that isn't truly representative of the entity? Can you think of any reason? If I told you that socialism was popular and carried a positive connotation in post WWI Germany, might that help you think of a reason?

i appreciate that you left out the part the movement overlaps with from the same article.

"The Nazis argued that capitalism damages nations due to international finance, the economic dominance of big business, and Jewish influences.[141] They argued that there was an international Jewish conspiracy headed by a cabal of financiers who economically controlled the United States and Europe, and were responsible for the Great Depression. The Nazis believed that the cabal was integral to a greater, long-term Jewish conspiracy, wherein Jews would establish global domination via a New World Order. They argued that the banks that the cabal allegedly controlled exerted political influence upon nation-states by granting or withholding credit. Nazi propaganda posters in working-class districts emphasized anti-capitalism, such as one that said: "The maintenance of a rotten industrial system has nothing to do with nationalism. I can love Germany and hate capitalism."

if this doesnt sound like your movement, i dont know what does. So you see, this is why some of the occupy movments literally have jackbooted armed nazis as guards.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Most people don't go into Rage mode over someone saying something. Otherwise Westboro Baptist Church would have been beaten into dust by now.

Besides Leftists calling something Fascist is about as common as Rightists calling people Communists. If people went batshit crazy about just that every time, there be a lot more political violence in the world.

i'm not talking about talking points and diatribes, name calling basically, it's what i did to you a few pages back as a joke. no one gets worked up about that. And discourse officially leaves the room at that point.


people do get worked up when you insult their collective consciousness by honest to god trying to compare the two in complete seriousness like this fucking yahoo up here.

 

[thezerofire]

Have they made it clear what they want from wall street, specifically?

I believe what they want from Wall Street is some actual consequences of shitting on the whole world, essentially.

 

[empty vessel]

Which provides food and bill payments somehow when you are out of work?

No, that's what unemployment insurance provides. And since these people will ultimately be individually better off with higher paying wages, I don't understand what you're upset about. Of course, I know the answer is: nothing. You don't actually care about anybody and this is just a show.

The evidence for this is...?

Economics 101. If one's health care is not tied to one's employment, one's need for a job is lessened. If one's need for a job is lessened, one's bargaining power is increased. Given that universal health care will, in one fell swoop, make all workers at once less dependent on their jobs, the increase in bargaining power is extremely high. Incidentally, this is the real reason why business interests oppose making the government the sole insurer.

Which will be nullified to an extent by the increased taxes needed to fund it. Unless you plan for it to be run like the VA System.

You don't understand the economics. Look at it this way. Right now, there is X amount of money spent on Y health care goods and services by all Americans. If the government becomes a single payer, then next year there will X/2 amount of money spent on Y health care goods and services by all Americans. Nothing is lost to increased taxes. Instead of paying X money to insurance companies and health care companies, Americans will just pay X/2 to the US government in taxes.

 

[Evlar]

It happened, it really happened, someone is seriously correlating the movement to Nazism because he decided that the goals of the Occupy movement are 'socialist' (huh??), and National Socialism has Socialism written in the name, therefore... Occupy = Nazi

All Horses have four legs
all horses are mammals

therefore, all mammals have four legs

I propose:

All Horses have four legs.
Therefore, Sea Horses have four legs.

 

[Deku]

The Nazi conspiracy stuff is certainly not socialist but it's not exclusive to Nazism either as they were a product of the times and historically deep seated suspicion of bankers and people who make a living from usury (think Shylock in the Merchant of Venice) ; A lot of leftwing & rightwing movments have borrowed and appropriated those cultural memes in their hyperbolic critique of the financial system, though often toning down the anti-jewish stuff to avoid being discredited immediately.

 

[minus_273]

It happened, it really happened, someone is seriously correlating the movement to Nazism because he decided that the goals of the Occupy movement are 'socialist' (huh??), and National Socialism has Socialism written in the name, therefore... Occupy = Nazi

All Horses have four legs
all horses are mammals

therefore, all mammals have four legs

i have been quite clear that that is not the case, that you are not a nazi. but since you lack a counterpoint to what i really said, keep arguing with yourself because no one i see supports the strawman you knocked down

what i am really saying is this sounds like you guys.

"Hitler, both in public and in private, expressed strong disdain for capitalism, accusing modern capitalism of holding nations ransom in the interests of a parasitic cosmopolitan rentier class.[152] He opposed free-market capitalism's profit-seeking impulses and desired an economy in which community interests would be upheld"

 

[Ken Masters]

I believe what they want from Wall Street is some actual consequences of shitting on the whole world, essentially.

You believe, so it's still unknown

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Eh, some people are trying to say OWS=Egypt, so the goofiness is going around in equal measure.

No, I believe it was the Egyptians who said that first. but you conveniently leave that part out, ya know, the Egyptians openly marching in solidarity for the occupy movement, for occupy oakland, and those who were harmed by the oakland pd.

so, yea

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Dem false syllogisms.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

The Nazi conspiracy stuff is certainly not socialist but it's not exclusive to Nazism either as they were a product of the times and historically deep seated suspicion of bankers and people who make a living earing usury (think Shylock in the Merchant of Venice) ; and a lot of leftwing & rightwing movments have borrowed and appropriated those cultural memes in their hyperbolic critique of the financial system, though often toning down the anti-jewish stuff to avoid being discredited immediately.

you're trying to actually get smart on the subject! we're just trying to explain that *one of these things is not like the other!*

 

[Something Wicked]

The Certainty Fairy! Companies aren't hiring because there's little demand for goods and services. The fact that you'd attribute the federal deficit to the miniscule liability for pensions for federal workers should suggest that there may be a flaw in your logic.

Unfortunately, modern economies are a bit more complicated than what is taught in Econ 101. If people are waiting for the US consumer to "jump-start" it's own economy by buying new clothes, TVs, and furniture, then such people are sadly misguided. The average US citizen's savings rate was negative just a few years ago- that was certainly not a positive thing. People were spending to their personal brinks, including accepting mortgages well beyond their means. Fortunately, many people have learned some hard lessons, and now, the national savings rates are up- but do not expect everyone to blow all of such savings anytime soon. The US consumer is not going to spur the necessary growth for the US economy.

And miniscule liability, you say?

http://www.aei.org/outlook/100948

States report that their public-employee pensions are underfunded by a total of $438 billion, but a more accurate accounting demonstrates that they are actually underfunded by over $3 trillion. The accounting methods that states currently use to measure their liabilities assume plans can earn high investment without risk. Should plan assets fall short, as is likely, taxpayers are required to make up the difference. But the value of this taxpayer guarantee is not disclosed. As a result, while states recognize that their public-employee pensions are underfunded, the situation is far worse than their accounting demonstrates. Without taking proactive steps now, taxpayers will be made to cover an enormous shortfall when the bills come due.

3 fucking trillion! - worse than the collective amount in sub-prime mortgages issued by banks years ago.

If this were actually true, would they be hiring right now to make the most out of the low tax rates before the "uncertainty" of higher rates comes into effect?

Businesses- large and small- do not just look at their finances only 1 year or 2 years down the road. Such businesses have plans of 5 years, 7 years, 10 years, etc. Another factor of the financial uncertainty- is the exact the details of 2010 healthcare act. Many companies have no idea what specifically they'll liable for the "mandate company-paid insurance programs." Despite it's length, that bill is extremely vague on the details of how is being paid.

Businesses expand when there is demand. The uncertainty now is that people are broke and can only afford the base necessities. Companies are already sitting on billions of cash. You're trying to tell me they won't expand because there's uncertainty that marginal income taxes might go up from 36 to 39%? There hasn't been a real scent of Congress trying to actually raise taxes on businesses besides shutting down loopholes.

Well, ending the Bush tax cuts will only cover a portion of our current $1.2 trillion federal deficit. Added spending, like the healthcare act I brought up above, will increase that total or paid directly by even higher taxes. Add increased taxes from states to fund their budget deficits as well. People in the upper income brackets aren't looking at just a 3-4% tax increase, but 10, 15, 20% increases - just when social security goes broke as well. And these large increases will have to occur, not just for the top 1-2% of earners, but for the top 30-40%. The same shit is going to happen in the UK, France, Germany, and Japan as well.

 

[minus_273]

No, that's what unemployment insurance provides. And since these people will ultimately be individually better off with higher paying wages, I don't understand what you're upset about. Of course, I know the answer is: nothing. You don't actually care about anybody and this is just a show.



Economics 101. If one's health care is not tied to one's employment, one's need for a job is lessened. If one's need for a job is lessened, one's bargaining power is increased. Given that universal health care will, in one fell swoop, make all workers at once less dependent on their jobs, the increase in bargaining power is extremely high. Incidentally, this is the real reason why business interests oppose making the government the sole insurer.



You don't understand the economics. Look at it this way. Right now, there is X amount of money spent on Y health care goods and services by all Americans. If the government becomes a single payer, then next year there will X/2 amount of money spent on Y health care goods and services by all Americans. Nothing is lost to increased taxes. Instead of paying X money to insurance companies and health care companies, Americans will just pay X/2 to the US government in taxes.

how on earth are you even talking about economics when you are a socialist. economics doesn't dictate your world, you cant have it both ways.

 

[thezerofire]

You believe, so it's still unknown

No, that is certainly something they want, but it is possibly not all they want.

how on earth are you even talking about economics when you are a socialist. economics doesn't dictate your world, you cant have it both ways.

WHAT THE SHIT

 

[NullPointer]

"Hitler, both in public and in private, expressed strong disdain for capitalism, accusing modern capitalism of holding nations ransom in the interests of a parasitic cosmopolitan rentier class.[152] He opposed free-market capitalism's profit-seeking impulses and desired an economy in which community interests would be upheld"

OK, this sounds like me, so you win Minus. I guess I'm Hitler.

you cant have it both ways.

Actually you can, and the world does. In fact there are a multitude of ways.

I'm colorblind and I still don't see the world as black and white as you.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

how on earth are you even talking about economics when you are a socialist. economics doesn't dictate your world, you cant have it both ways.

every .gif and .jpg that expresses complete and utter astonishment.rar

 

[empty vessel]

i appreciate that you left out the part the movement overlaps with from the same article.

"The Nazis argued that capitalism damages nations due to international finance, the economic dominance of big business, and Jewish influences.[141] They argued that there was an international Jewish conspiracy headed by a cabal of financiers who economically controlled the United States and Europe, and were responsible for the Great Depression. The Nazis believed that the cabal was integral to a greater, long-term Jewish conspiracy, wherein Jews would establish global domination via a New World Order. They argued that the banks that the cabal allegedly controlled exerted political influence upon nation-states by granting or withholding credit. Nazi propaganda posters in working-class districts emphasized anti-capitalism, such as one that said: "The maintenance of a rotten industrial system has nothing to do with nationalism. I can love Germany and hate capitalism."

if this doesnt sound like your movement, i dont know what does. So you see, this is why some of the occupy movments literally have jackbooted armed nazis as guards.

You caught us. OWS are Nazis. Everybody unhappy with Wall Street and the influence of the financial industry on the American economy and governance is a Nazi. Which reminds me, I have some bad news for you. Your country is overrun with Nazis.

This is a fun game. Did you know that "n 1942, Hitler privately said: 'I absolutely insist on protecting private property ... we must encourage private initiative.'" That's why we literally have jackbooted armed nazis at Tea Party rallies.

Incidentally, has it really not dawned on you yet that these people are not actually part of the movement but just showed up there? Or is this a show like the one Manos is putting on?

 

[Dude Abides]

Did you guys know Hitler was a vegetarian?

 

[minus_273]

OK, this sounds like me, so you win Minus. I guess I'm Hitler.

did i accuse you of being hitler? if so please show me where. im just explaining to you why OWS movements have nazis supporting them. you guys agree on some things. by your logic if anyone agrees with anything a nazi says makes them a nazi, which is not the case at all.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Did you guys know Hitler was a vegetarian?

He wasn't actually.

BUT HE DID CONSUME SUGAR!! OMG!!1!

 

[NullPointer]

Did you guys know Hitler was a vegetarian?

That explains all the neo-nazis at vegetarian expos.

I always wondered about that.

 

[Wazzim]

OK, this sounds like me, so you win Minus. I guess I'm Hitler.

The problem is that people think everything Hitler did was bad while many, if not all European nations use systems his government invented.

Besides, I hate how socialism is still seen as something bad while everything shows otherwise.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

i am literally lol'ng at this. this is just unbelievable. Manos must be laughing so damn hard too, high fiving himself at the malcontent he helps foster

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

No, that's what unemployment insurance provides. And since these people will ultimately be individually better off with higher paying wages,

Unemployment doesn't provide that much, you do know that right? Saying oh they'll have unemployment insurance is just as dumb as those painting the welfare queen stereotype.



I don't understand what you're upset about. Of course, I know the answer is: nothing. You don't actually care about anybody and this is just a show.[/quote]
That's the best answer you can come with, because you won't be honest and say you don't care about them, after all they work for an industry you despise. The thought of them losing their jobs probably puts a smile on your face.

Economics 101. If one's health care is not tied to one's employment, one's need for a job is lessened. If one's need for a job is lessened, one's bargaining power is increased. Given that universal health care will, in one fell swoop, make all workers at once less dependent on their jobs, the increase in bargaining power is extremely high.

Having some minimal health care won't increase bargaining power when private health care can give better service and options. It also won't likely deal with other bills and needs even with unemployment insurance.

You don't understand the economics. Look at it this way. Right now, there is X amount of money spent on Y health care goods and services by all Americans. If the government becomes a single payer, then next year there will X/2 amount of money spent on Y health care goods and services by all Americans. Nothing is lost to increased taxes. Instead of paying X money to insurance companies and health care companies, Americans will just pay X/2 to the US government in taxes.

So what if I have private insurance and I'm happy with it and I don't want to pay for a public option? Who says the cost will actually be cheaper too or the quality and access?

 

[CHEEZMO™]

i am literally lol'ng at this. this is just unbelievable. Manos must be laughing so damn hard too, high fiving himself at the malcontent he helps foster

I believe that's called "clapping".

It does produce an equally funny mental image though.

 

[minus_273]

You caught us. OWS are Nazis. Everybody unhappy with Wall Street and the influence of the financial industry on the American economy and governance is a Nazi. Which reminds me, I have some bad news for you. Your country is overrun with Nazis.

This is a fun game. Did you know that "n 1942, Hitler privately said: 'I absolutely insist on protecting private property ... we must encourage private initiative.'" That's why we literally have jackbooted armed nazis at Tea Party rallies.

Incidentally, has it really not dawned on you yet that these people are not actually part of the movement but just showed up there? Or is this a show like the one Manos is putting on?

again show me where i have accused you of being a nazi. i have asked for this repeatedly but you have not been able to show it. I am talking about economic policies and have been stressing that since the beginning but in your hysteria you cant see past the nazi thing.

please tell me sir, why would the nazi party support you if it werent in favor of your arguments?

http://weaselzippers.us/2011/10/15/...ication-to-fighting-judeo-capitalist-bankers/

 

[Karakand]

Your understanding of capitalism appears to be deficient. Help me finish this sentence. Revenue less wages and other expenses equals _______.

It isn't even capitalism, it's a fundamental accounting equation.

 

[Evlar]

I believe that's called "clapping".

It does produce an equally funny mental image though.

It's clapping with style.

 

[Dude Abides]

Unfortunately, modern economies are a bit more complicated than what is taught in Econ 101. If people are waiting for the US consumer to "jump-start" it's own economy by buying new clothes, TVs, and furniture, then such people are sadly misguided. The average US citizen's savings rate was negative just a few years ago- that was certainly not a positive thing. People were spending to their personal brinks, including accepting mortgages well beyond their means. Fortunately, many people have learned some hard lessons, and now, the national savings rates are up- but do not expect everyone to blow all of such savings anytime soon. The US consumer is not going to spur the necessary growth for the US economy.

Correct. Not without help from the government to ease the problem as people pay off their debts.

And miniscule liability, you say?

http://www.aei.org/outlook/100948



3 fucking trillion! - worse than the collective amount in sub-prime mortgages issued by banks years ago.

I said federal government. Federal.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

I believe that's called "clapping".

It does produce an equally funny mental image though.

high fiving yourself is more self gratifying

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

i'm not talking about talking points and diatribes, name calling basically, it's what i did to you a few pages back as a joke. no one gets worked up about that. And discourse officially leaves the room at that point.


people do get worked up when you insult their collective consciousness by honest to god trying to compare the two in complete seriousness like this fucking yahoo up here.

Than they need to work on how they handle things then.

No, I believe it was the Egyptians who said that first.

No, it was mostly the squatters. That fact that a couple of Egyptians debased their own accomplishments by endorsing them is not my problem.

but you conveniently leave that part out, ya know, the Egyptians openly marching in solidarity for the occupy movement, for occupy oakland, and those who were harmed by the oakland pd.
so, yea

So yeah, a couple of peoples with some signs.

 

[alstein]

That's the best answer you can come with, because you won't be honest and say you don't care about them, after all they work for an industry you despise. The thought of them losing their jobs probably puts a smile on your face.




Having some minimal health care won't increase bargaining power when private health care can give better service and options. It also won't likely deal with other bills and needs even with unemployment insurance.



So what if I have private insurance and I'm happy with it and I don't want to pay for a public option? Who says the cost will actually be cheaper too or the quality and access?

A healthcare plan would suck for upper middle-income folks, but they'd be alright in the end.

The high-end folks would stay with private insurance, losing slightly.
Everyone else would get public healthcare that is better then what they have now, or at least the same in terms of quality.

Personally I'd prefer a plan that mandates health coverage, but guarantees a price floor at a percentage of your income. If you wish to get private insurance, you can get it, if not, you get the public plan. Health insurance would have a mandatory maximum deductible based on your income though. Basically this system would provide a guarantee that healthcare wouldn't exceed x% of your income.

This would replace Medicare (probably benefit the poorest Medicare folks, hurt the ones who are better off) and Medicaid.

Another advantage of this plan is that it would retain incentivation among healthcare providers. I could see some healthcare providers refusing to cover the poor, but this already happens. States would remain the healthcare provider of last resort, as most already are.

 

[Slappers Only]

Have they made it clear what they want from wall street, specifically?

Campaign finance reform.


And their jerbs back.

 

[NullPointer]

did i accuse you of being hitler? if so please show me where. im just explaining to you why OWS movements have nazis supporting them. you guys agree on some things. by your logic if anyone agrees with anything a nazi says makes them a nazi, which is not the case at all.

I get ya. I have ideas that overlap with some of what Hitler has spoken about. Which explains why I have to kick neo-nazis out of my house every night.

I find your points deeply illuminating.

 

[minus_273]

Than they need to work on how they handle things then.



No, it was mostly the squatters. That fact that a couple of Egyptians debased their own accomplishments by endorsing them is not my problem.

but you conveniently leave that part out, ya know, the Egyptians openly marching in solidarity for the occupy movement, for occupy oakland, and those who were harmed by the oakland pd.

So yeah, a couple of peoples with some signs.

but a couple of hippies with signs represent 99%!! NINETY NINE PERCENT!! how do you no understand basic math like that?

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

just a few yea

the Egyptians have collectively been supporting OWS since it began, so they are debasing themselves as a nation? uh?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

A healthcare plan would suck for upper middle-income folks, but they'd be alright in the end.

So people do have a rational reason for opposing it then, correct?

The high-end folks would stay with private insurance, losing slightly.
Everyone else would get public healthcare that is better then what they have now, or at least the same in terms of quality.

Based on previous government health care plans, I can't share that optimism.

Personally I'd prefer a plan that mandates health coverage, but guarantees a price floor at a percentage of your income. If you wish to get private insurance, you can get it, if not, you get the public plan. Health insurance would have a mandatory maximum deductible based on your income though. Basically this system would provide a guarantee that healthcare wouldn't exceed x% of your income.

Can it actually support itself though?

 

[sangreal]

Have they made it clear what they want from wall street, specifically?

Stop testing products on animals

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

just a few yea

Right just a few with OWS signs and none in the pic you posted.

the Egyptians have collectively been supporting OWS since it began, so they are debasing themselves as a nation? uh?

A couple of people with signs about OWS, I think most of them are upset with the new/same governance by the Military and not about "First World Problems".

 

[Something Wicked]

Let's keep the OWS and Nazi analogies going:

All right, who had the dumber plan: trying to occupy Russia in the winter or trying to occupy Zuccotti Park in the winter? I suppose Russia is quite larger, but then again, most of the top Nazi generals were not fans of Operation Barbarossa to start with.

I said federal government. Federal.

When states are nearing bankruptcy, it becomes a federal issue- and may have to be paid by everyone in the country.

 

[Sobriquet]

The company I work for is private and has grown that way for years. The company is now among the top electrical distributors in the country.

The founder would shut the doors tomorrow if the company was ever to unionize.

Wow, your boss really hates his employees.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Let's keep the OWS and Nazi analogies going:

All right, who had the dumber plan: trying to occupy Russia in the winter or trying to occupy Zuccotti Park in the winter? I suppose Russia is quite larger, but then again, most of the top Nazi generals were not fans of Operation Barbarossa to start with.

The worst part is when people get sick or some dumbass wants to keep their child out their are they going to accept any responsibility...no.

 

[Dude Abides]

Let's keep the OWS and Nazi analogies going:

All right, who had the dumber plan: trying to occupy Russia in the winter or trying to occupy Zuccotti Park in the winter? I suppose Russia is quite larger, but then again, most of the top Nazi generals were not fans of Operation Barbarossa to start with.




When states are nearing bankruptcy, it becomes a federal issue- and may have to be paid by everyone in the country.

Your claim was that the federal deficit was in significant part the result of pension liabilities. It's nonsense, and no amount of hand-waving will change that.

 

[dave is ok]

3 fucking trillion! - worse than the collective amount in sub-prime mortgages issued by banks years ago.

First of all: WRONG

The value of all outstanding residential mortgages, owed by U.S. households to purchase residences housing at most four families, was US$9.9 trillion as of year-end 2006, and US$10.6 trillion as of midyear 2008

And those were leveraged...

Effects on global stock markets due to the crisis have been dramatic. Between 1 January and 11 October 2008, owners of stocks in U.S. corporations had suffered about $8 trillion in losses

You're still trying to call a molehill a mountain.

 

[Fenderputty]

Can it actually support itself though?

I'm sure private insurance corporations will be fine with profits instead of recrod profits.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/14/business/14health.html

 

[Chichikov]

i am literally lol'ng at this. this is just unbelievable. Manos must be laughing so damn hard too, high fiving himself at the malcontent he helps foster

He achieved exactly two things here -

1. he keep bumping this thread, making sure it's on the front page.
2. the quality of his arguments makes those who oppose OWS look sillier than they need to be.

I personally don't see how either of those is a bad thing.