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[travisbickle]

Well, there may only be 100 books in that photo (25 or so boxes allegedly recovered, according to the library), but that is more evidence than I see for this 6000 books claim. In fact, the library themselves only claim to have 2,000-4,000 books and that is based solely on "we'll know it when we see it"

2000-4000 number is books believed to be still missing, that's based in information given to them by the Police on the numbers of books stored at another location.

 

[travisbickle]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrNbAe7dOGA

I wonder how liberal sites/blogs/media would react if someone with the slightest Tea Party ties shot at the WH, and later a gathering of tea partiers (no matter how small) held a moment of silence for him.

On the bbc it says the suspect claims he was on a mission from God to kill the president.

I watched the clip and saw it as a group of people taking a moments contemplation for a crazy act, like my grandma always did. Maybe I'm naive and they're sad because the attempt was unsuccessful?

 

[remnant]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrNbAe7dOGA

I wonder how liberal sites/blogs/media would react if someone with the slightest Tea Party ties shot at the WH, and later a gathering of tea partiers (no matter how small) held a moment of silence for him.

I heard about that. Didn't know it was true. Sounded to ridiculous.

And they actually have a moment of silence. Laugh out fucking loud.

I don't think it's "gimme gimme". I think these are earned benefits that come from paying taxes and contributing to the economy (although that's not so easy to do these days).

How is it not that. Lets ignore the blatant hypocrisy of a bunch of people protesting the federal government using taxpayer money to socialize private losses, and then on the other hand demanding the government socialize their private losses.

In the name of affordable colleges, we have design a loan system not based off credit or income but essentially hope and dreams, you remove all the market signals that dictate home and auto loans, all the regulatory rules that would keep it in check, allow it to inflate the cost of tuition at every level for years, and then essentially bail people out? No moral hazard there.

The banks will eat it at first, but good luck getting a loan from them again, especially if you are young. The banks will hold it against you, and we will hear new bitching from the same activists about the evil banks not giving you an auto/home loan or credit card because you decided to wipe out your debt by not paying it.

 

[XMonkey]

2000-4000 number is books believed to be still missing, that's based in information given to them by the Police on the numbers of books stored at another location.

They also have a very good idea on the number of books they've collected in total since they were all catalogued. Still, it may be harder to peg the number of books they had on-hand the night of the raid due to the anarchist structure of the library where anyone is free to take a book permanently if they desire. I have no doubt that many have been lost or destroyed during the raid. The police just threw them en masse into a dumpster.

Spoiler

Cue someone spinning this to say it was alright for the police to take them then.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

They also have a very good idea on the number of books they've collected in total since they were all catalogued. Still, it may be harder to peg the number of books they had on-hand the night of the raid due to the anarchist structure of the library where anyone is free to take a book permanently if they desire. I have no doubt that many have been lost or destroyed during the raid. The police just threw them en masse into a dumpster.

Spoiler

Cue someone spinning this to say it was alright for the police to take them then.

So then it was fine for the NYPD to take them anyway.

 

[Wazzim]

So then it was fine for the NYPD to take them anyway.

No because the NYPD was not part of their 'society'.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

No because the NYPD was not part of their 'society'.

Did they has a TOS they was on display and that they will enforce?

 

[gkryhewy]

stop feeding the troll.

What do you guys think about student debt forgiveness?

I know there was a student rally at Union Square today where they established it as their primary agenda.

Personally, I think it is unfair to people who paid for college out of pocket.

While I am not in favor of significant (blanket) student loan forgiveness, I am in favor of significant improvements in loan repayment terms. For example, I think it's ridiculous that all graduate and professional loans from the federal government have a 6.8% interest rate when the Prime rate is at or close to zero.

 

[Barrett2]

stop feeding the troll.

What do you guys think about student debt forgiveness?

I know there was a student rally at Union Square today where they established it as their primary agenda.

Personally, I think it is unfair to people who paid for college out of pocket.

As others have pointed out, you would probably see a massive increase in consumer spending if you wiped out everyone's student loans. Christ, if I had an extra $700/ month, i'd be making it rain.

Im' not sure I would actually do it if I was dictator of America, though. However, student loans should absolutely, 100% be dischargeable in bankruptcy. It's a disgusting perversion of society that they are not. And the interest rates charged on them are absurd.

 

[goodcow]

As others have pointed out, you would probably see a massive increase in consumer spending if you wiped out everyone's student loans. Christ, if I had an extra $700/ month, i'd be making it rain.

Im' not sure I would actually do it if I was dictator of America, though. However, student loans should absolutely, 100% be dischargeable in bankruptcy. It's a disgusting perversion of society that they are not. And the interest rates charged on them are absurd.

Who told you to take out such a massive loan that it requires $700 a month in payments? Why didn't you go to a city or state college for far cheaper? I support OWS, but everyone in student loan debt has themselves to blame.

 

[Krauser Kat]

Forgiving all student debt is terrible terrible idea. At best they need to work with students who went to college and lower percentage rates or kill interest all together for 10 years while the economy recovers.

Forgiving all that debt would see an exponential increase in cost of school. Effectively killing the few professions that actually need a higher education to perform in (engineering, architecture, etc).

Planet money or freakanomics did a full episode on why its terrible idea.

 

[Schattenjäger]

Forgiving all student debt is terrible terrible idea. At best they need to work with students who went to college and lower percentage rates or kill interest all together for 10 years while the economy recovers.

Forgiving all that debt would see an exponential increase in cost of school. Effectively killing the few professions that actually need a higher education to perform in (engineering, architecture, etc).

Planet money or freakanomics did a full episode on why its terrible idea.

Thank you -
At least someone is making sense around here

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Thank you -
At least someone is making sense around here

Ditto

 

[MC Safety]

2000-4000 number is books believed to be still missing, that's based in information given to them by the Police on the numbers of books stored at another location.

The authorities probably also bogarted the VC Andrews.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Retired officer: Cops work for the 1 percent
Former Philadelphia police officer Ray Lewis has some harsh words for law enforcement at OWS

Retired Philadelphia police captain Ray Lewis joined the Occupy Wall Street movement in Zuccotti Park this week, and was arrested early this morning). Here Lewis voices leveled serious criticisms against Mayor Michael Bloomberg and the New York Police Department over their handling of the protests.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ocdnl4XlTOU

 

[Schattenjäger]

As others have pointed out, you would probably see a massive increase in consumer spending if you wiped out everyone's student loans. Christ, if I had an extra $700/ month, i'd be making it rain.

Im' not sure I would actually do it if I was dictator of America, though. However, student loans should absolutely, 100% be dischargeable in bankruptcy. It's a disgusting perversion of society that they are not. And the interest rates charged on them are absurd.

No offense but it was your choice to go to law school - no one forced you. I was at one time contemplating law school - i got a decent LSAT score - but after taking cost and job prospects into consideration I opted not to

 

[Karma Kramer]

The Fox/NYT nexus on OWS

The New York Times‘ media critic, Brian Stelter, yesterday had a long column criticizing the local Fox affiliate for claiming throughout the day — falsely — that OWS intended to “shut down” the New York City subway system. Stelter cited the “ominous” warnings from Fox anchor Greg Kelly — the son of NYPD Commission Raymond Kelly — saying things such as: “This is a big deal . . . .So far, they’ve focused their ire at the wealthy and those who support them, but when they start to shut down the commuting system for folks who are on their way to work, that’s something else.” Except, as Stelter documents, the whole thing was a fabrication from the start: while OWS announced their intention to “shut down” Wall Street, they intended merely to “occupy” the subway system by “handing out fliers.”

Stelter asked a Fox spokesperson about the sourcing for this claim and she replied: “It’s been reported elsewhere.” Ordinarily, one might be skeptical of this excuse, except that in this case — though Stelter doesn’t mention it — there is a significant source that also reported this claim: The New York Times. Yesterday’s NYT article on the various OWS protests by reporter Katharine Seelye “reported” as follows: “There was much confusion throughout the day in New York as protesters caused disruptions at the New York Stock Exchange and at Zuccotti Park before they moved in the afternoon to shut down subway stations” (h/t sysprog).

The current version of that article does not contain that passage, and there is no editorial note or correction noting that it had been removed, nor is there anything about this error on today’s Correction page.

more at: http://www.salon.com/writer/glenn_greenwald/

 

[Mercury Fred]

Reporters For Right-Wing Publication Daily Caller Beaten By NYPD, Helped By Protesters
By Zaid Jilani on Nov 17, 2011 at 1:20 pm

The right-wing Daily Caller website has been anything but kind to Occupy Wall Street, even going so far as to condemn the protest movement as generating riots, murder, and arson.
But when a couple of Daily Caller employees were at Occupy Wall Street this morning, it was the very protesters they had been demonizing who ended up helping them out. Daily Caller reporter Michelle Fields — who faced off with actor Matt Damon earlier this year over education policy — and videographer Direna Cousins both claim they were attacked by the New York Police Department (NYPD) while covering the raucous protests in the Financial District today. Fields added that Occupy Wall Street protesters immediately came up to her to offer their help:

“Direna had a camera in her hand and I had a microphone, and we were being hit,” she said. “When I fell to the ground I said at one point, ‘I’m just covering this! I’m covering this!’ And the officer just said, ‘Come on, get up, get up,’ before pulling me up by my jacket.’” “The protesters came up to me right away and asked if I needed any medical assistance. They were actually very kind and helpful. It was the police officers who were very aggressive,” Fields added.

Fields says that protesters right now are effectively “barricaded” in Zuccotti Park, which was the spot from which they were ousted from on Tuesday.

http://thinkprogress.org/special/20...y-caller-beaten-by-nypd-helped-by-protesters/

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

http://thinkprogress.org/special/20...y-caller-beaten-by-nypd-helped-by-protesters/

Can you admit you were wrong about the books now?

 

[Blergmeister]

Can you admit you were wrong about the books now?

I don't get it? What does this have to do with Mercury Freds post?

 

[rohlfinator]

Forgiving all student debt is terrible terrible idea. At best they need to work with students who went to college and lower percentage rates or kill interest all together for 10 years while the economy recovers.

Forgiving all that debt would see an exponential increase in cost of school. Effectively killing the few professions that actually need a higher education to perform in (engineering, architecture, etc).

Planet money or freakanomics did a full episode on why its terrible idea.

Agreed. It seems like way too much of a band-aid solution to me. Rather than correct the system that causes the problem, wait until the problem gets too unbearable and then throw money at it.

If we're going to fix higher education costs, it's going to need a deep rethinking of how the entire system works, IMO.

Can you admit you were wrong about the books now?

...coming from the guy who flips out when anyone brings up his post count too often.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I don't get it? What does this have to do with Mercury Freds post?

He was posting that the entire library was destroyed and evidence has shown, no that hasn't happened. It keeps dodging any attempt to make him admit he was wrong.

...coming from the guy who flips out when anyone brings up his post count too often.

When do I flip out about that? lol All I do is point out if it really bothered me you'd think after trying it a couple of times already it would have had an effect. lol

 

[.GqueB.]

Who told you to take out such a massive loan that it requires $700 a month in payments? Why didn't you go to a city or state college for far cheaper? I support OWS, but everyone in student loan debt has themselves to blame.

I dont like this argument. Youre talking as an adult but think back to when you were that age. Youre entering college. Youre being told constantly that city college is for losers. Youre being told that going to a good college is key. There are friends around you going off to great colleges out of state. Youre being told that college will lead to a great job and great opportunities. You even have some cases (such as mine) where parents say "dont worry about your loans just do well in school".

Then youre being told you cant actually afford it. They give out loans and credit cards to 18 yr old kids like candy. But at the same time they dont make the risks known. They dont educate them which leads to situations that we are encountering now.

Am I saying that NO blame should fall on those who took out the loans? No. But lets not pretend that every college age kid had the knowledge and foresight to truly make an educated decision back then. Because all we really had were hope and dreams. Now we have a bill.

 

[Sirpopopop]

I don't get it? What does this have to do with Mercury Freds post?

Because he went on a rant about how the books were destroyed, and he never issued a mea culpa for being wrong.

People certainly call out Manos like that all the time. (See: rohlfinator's post.) Why shouldn't he have the right to do the same?

 

[teruterubozu]

...coming from the guy who flips out when anyone brings up his post count too often.

I doubt he even fires guns. When does he have the time?

 

[Azih]

Because he went on a rant about how the books were destroyed, and he never issued a mea culpa for being wrong.

People certainly call out Manos like that all the time. (See: rohlfinator's post.) Why shouldn't he have the right to do the same?

Yeah if someone is wrong they should admit it and people kinda jumped the gun like crazy about the reports of books being destroyed.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Because he went on a rant about how the books were destroyed, and he never issued a mea culpa for being wrong.

People certainly call out Manos like that all the time. (See: rohlfinator's post.) Why shouldn't he have the right to do the same?

First off, I have Manos on ignore, so I only see his posts if he's quoted.

Second, as many other folks have posted here several times over, the word on the books is inconclusive at this point and it still looks like the collection is no longer intact following the Gestapo raid of Zuccotti Park this week.

Incidentally, does anyone know if Manos has a decent support system-- anyone at home, friends, family, etc? From the sheer volume of his posts and the paranoid OCD he seems to be playing out as OWS goes on it seems like he's really not well at all and getting much worse pretty rapidly.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Second, as many other folks have posted here several times over, the word on the books is inconclusive at this point and it still looks like the collection is no longer intact following the Gestapo raid of Zuccotti Park this week.

Gestapo? LOL

You said all the books were destroyed, prove has emerged they weren't. You keep ducking.

Incidentally, does anyone know if Manos has a decent support system-- anyone at home, friends, family, etc? From the sheer volume of his posts and the paranoid OCD he seems to be playing out as OWS goes on it seems like he's really not well at all and getting much worse pretty rapidly.

Coming from the person calling the NYPD the Gestapo you might need to get checked out.

 

[MC Safety]

First off, I have Manos on ignore, so I only see his posts if he's quoted.

Second, as many other folks have posted here several times over, the word on the books is inconclusive at this point and it still looks like the collection is no longer intact following the Gestapo raid of Zuccotti Park this week.

Incidentally, does anyone know if Manos has a decent support system-- anyone at home, friends, family, etc? From the sheer volume of his posts and the paranoid OCD he seems to be playing out as OWS goes on it seems like he's really not well at all and getting much worse pretty rapidly.

Just admit you're wrong, dude.

I don't understand why people have this aversion to saying they made an error on the Internet.

 

[venne]

Just admit you're wrong, dude.

I don't understand why people have this aversion to saying they made an error on the Internet.

Probably because most people don't like to admit they're wrong in the real world.

 

[Joe]

Manos, go to sleep, get a job, do something. You've been up posting for over 24 hours now and its a little weird.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Manos, go to sleep, get a job, do something. You've been up posting for over 24 hours now and its a little weird.

Umm, no I haven't.

 

[venne]

Manos, go to sleep, get a job, do something. You've been up posting for over 24 hours now and its a little weird.

Occupy NeoGaf!

 

[.GqueB.]

Can we stop pretending that Manos is bad for this thread. He keeps it alive and on the first page where it would otherwise get lost.

 

[JGS]

Im' not sure I would actually do it if I was dictator of America, though. However, student loans should absolutely, 100% be dischargeable in bankruptcy. It's a disgusting perversion of society that they are not. And the interest rates charged on them are absurd.

Everybody could file bankruptcy on them and be clean in 7 years. If I had 100,00 in debt and no job, it' would be a no-brainer. I suppose voiding their degree would be a fair compromise though to outright discharging. That way, bot the lender and student can realize how much time they wasted. This would then regulate underwriting guidelines so that only the ones that deserve the financial aid would get the aid.

Anyway, since that won't ever be an option and would probably generate another protest for just mentioning it, one's who do file bankruptcy can get their payments adjusted, delayed indefinitely anyway. Anyone filing for bankruptcy should also have the funds freed up to make payments. If they are still broke and unemployed, they have bigger problems than their student debt. The timeframe on credit repair could be the same or quicker than bankruptcy without stickling it to the people ones went to for the loans in the first place.

Simpler solution is to limit the financing to tuition. Make ones prove they need living expenses paid and allow for small payments to be made while in class. Require lenders to refinance based on current market rates (If that's not being done now)

 

[Fenderputty]

Sounds like a lot of gimmie gimmie. People need to actually learn responsibility for their actions. No way will I ever want to pay taxes to forgive people's stupidity. Only type I support is the public service forgiveness.

This attitude amazes me. Simply because (I'm assuming you're not super wealthy here) your taxes have gone to alleviate past tax breaks we couldn't afford to give to the super rich. You would rather speak out about how your tax dollars are being unwisely spent on "gimmies" for college students than speak out about your taxes lining the pockets of some wealthy few.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

This attitude amazes me. Simply because (I'm assuming you're not super wealthy here) your taxes have gone to alleviate past tax breaks we couldn't afford to give to the super rich. You would rather speak out about how your tax dollars are being unwisely spent on "gimmies" for college students than speak out about your taxes lining the pockets of some wealthy few.

Can we stop with the us vs the super rich stuff?

You don't have to like either of them. Personally I don't want anything that will raise my taxes now.

 

[Something Wicked]

This attitude amazes me. Simply because (I'm assuming you're not super wealthy here) your taxes have gone to alleviate past tax breaks we couldn't afford to give to the super rich. You would rather speak out about how your tax dollars are being unwisely spent on "gimmies" for college students than speak out about your taxes lining the pockets of some wealthy few.

The banks paid back their bailout funds, the lazy-ass hippies would not. Our current national deficit is so high that we need higher taxes on top and new top tax brackets without adding anymore money-pit programs, like "free college tuition to any idiot with a pulse."

 

[akira28]

Personally I don't want anything that will raise my taxes now.

We kinda assumed...

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

We kinda assumed...

Yes, heaven forbid I'd want more money to spend on my first child.

 

[richiek]

We kinda assumed...

This explains alot, lol.

 

[minus_273]

Can we stop with the us vs the super rich stuff?

You don't have to like either of them. Personally I don't want anything that will raise my taxes now.

are you part of teh 1%?. you are either with us or against us. we are the 99%

 

[venne]

Yes, heaven forbid I'd want more money to spend on my first child.

Better to let your child want things.

You wouldn't want it to grow into one of these people with a sense of entitlement.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Better to let your child want things.

You wouldn't want it to grow into one of these people with a sense of entitlement.

I mean the functional important things, not baby's first Mac product. lol

 

[venne]

I mean the functional important things, not baby's first Mac product. lol

What's your kid lacking?

 

[Baron Aloha]

The banks paid back the TARP funds.

What about the 16 TRILLION in US Dollars that the Federal Reserve printed to shore them up? Have they paid that back yet?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

What's your kid lacking?

Well at this point being delivered I can't say, but I'd rather be able to keep more in savings for all the random things that can occur.

 

[Fenderputty]

The banks paid back their bailout funds, the lazy-ass hippies would not. Our current national deficit is so high that we need higher taxes on top and new top tax brackets without adding anymore money-pit programs, like "free college tuition to any idiot with a pulse."

I'm talking about the 10% portion of every stimulus dollar that went to fund the Alternative Minimum Tax.


We've always needed higher tax brakets on the top. WTF. Did you grow up in the 90's or later?

Can we stop with the us vs the super rich stuff?

You don't have to like either of them. Personally I don't want anything that will raise my taxes now.

This doesn't take away from my post. If you think both are bad, you should be complaining about both. Yet I only hear you complain about the "hippies"

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I'm talking about the 10% portion of every stimulus dollar that went to fund the Alternative Minimum Tax.


We've always needed higher tax brakets on the top. WTF. Did you grow up in the 90's or later?



This doesn't take away from my post. If you think both are bad, you should be complaining about both. Yet I only hear you complain about the "hippies"

Last I checked the weren't in the streets attacking police yesterday, when they do that or attempt to squat I'll comment more on them. Besides I do complain about them anyway at other times.

 

[badcrumble]

This anti-#Occupy website is fucking crazy!

http://multiculturalismisterrorism.blogspot.com/

therefore it thoroughly discredits literally any and all opposition to the OWS movement