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[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I think as a society we've kind of forgotten what the purpose of a police force really is. They're here to protect our rights, but we have allowed them to use violence to protect the wealth of a very few.

No, I see them protecting the rights of people like myself and ordinary citizens who reject being tossed in the "99%" and believe in law and order and reject criminality.

The police protecting the rich lie is the typical Leftist garbage so I'm not shocked it's turned up at OWS.

 

[Dude Abides]

I think as a society we've kind of forgotten what the purpose of a police force really is. They're here to protect our rights, but we have allowed them to use violence to protect the wealth of a very few.

Thanks for the correction earlier, btw.

No problem.

I largely agree with your assessment. As people with a monopoly on the use of state-sanctioned violence, police should be very heavily scrutinized and we should be extremely vigilant in ensuring that they carry out their duties with the utmost solicitude toward the citizens they purport to serve. For some reason folks like Manos see this in reverse, and wish to give police essentially unfettered latitude while looking for any reason to blame citizens who end up on the wrong end of the baton.

 

[kame-sennin]

Why are we assuming they are "peaceful" protesters when they have been shown to not be peaceful in more than a few instances. Stop with this "protesters = good, cops = bad" mentality. Its childish. There are douchey individuals on both sides. Shitty cops, shitty protesters. Lets stop pretending otherwise.

Just yesterday, a sensible cop stopped a douchey cop from attacking a protester. Does the less douchey cop suddenly not matter in all this? Not everything is black and white.

I respect and admire individual police officers. However, the institution has placed moral individuals in the immoral position of needing to use violence to protect the wealth of a few and suppress the speech of the many.

As for the protesters, the ones committing violence are a fraction of a percent. The overall movement has been intensely focused on non-violence, even chanting "non-violent protest" when police brutality occurs - a means of shaming offending officers and calming angry protesters.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

No problem.

I largely agree with your assessment. As people with a monopoly on the use of state-sanctioned violence, police should be very heavily scrutinized and we should be extremely vigilant in ensuring that they carry out their duties with the utmost solicitude toward the citizens they purport to serve. For some reason folks like Manos see this in reverse, and wish to give police essentially unfettered latitude while looking for any reason to blame citizens who end up on the wrong end of the baton.

Except in this case the police have done nothing wrong.

I respect and admire individual police officers.

The embarrassment that came in from Philadelphia.

However, the institution has placed moral individuals in the immoral position of needing to use violence to protect the wealth of a few and suppress the speech of the many.

Please, just because the police have to act against criminals and squatters doesn't mean it's class warfare by the rich and speech suppression.

 

[Cth]

Those must be fakes made and paid for by teh rich fat cats on wall street.

They could be members of OWS infiltrating the cops to sabotage their image.

 

[Something Wicked]

Without the police presence, the typical OWS member would be the most vulnerable of all to real wolves of society. I have no faith in that those kids could defend themselves in a true "anarchic world."

 

[Dude Abides]

Except in this case the police have done nothing wrong.

Od course, because your politics are such that by nature they can do no wrong.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Without the police presence, the typical OWS member would be the most vulnerable of all to real wolves of society. I have faith no faith in that those kids could defend themselves in a true "anarchic world."

I agree, the learning how to use an iPad and play a drum aren't exactly survival training skills. lol

Od course, because your politics are such that by nature they can do no wrong.

Of course, for you because your politics are such that by nature they can do no right.

 

[Wazzim]

No, I see them protecting the rights of people like myself and ordinary citizens who reject being tossed in the "99%" and believe in law and order and reject criminality.

The police protecting the rich lie is the typical Leftist garbage so I'm not shocked it's turned up at OWS.

So why don't you protest against the fraud of banks and government officials?

Without the police presence, the typical OWS member would be the most vulnerable of all to real wolves of society. I have no faith in that those kids could defend themselves in a true "anarchic world."

Anarchy? Stop watching FOX News and CNBC FFS

 

[Arde5643]

Without the police presence, the typical OWS member would be the most vulnerable of all to real wolves of society. I have faith no faith in that those kids could defend themselves in a true "anarchic world."

WTF are you talking about?

Without police presence or military, all of us including the wealthy and powerful won't be able to defend ourselves.

And these "kids" are not trying to get the police disbanded so I'm not sure what your talking point is about here.

 

[kame-sennin]

By taking that one cop and allowing him to represent the entirety of the NYPD, youre doing the same thing other people against your movement are doing. Allowing the violent/nonsensical minority to represent all of occupy wallstreet. Lets stop being hypocrites.

It really doesnt help and I hate seeing it.

The orders to react with violence are coming from the top. Bloomberg and other city mayors have authorized the use of pepper spray, tear gas, and batons to disperse a non-violent protest. This isn't about individual asshole cops. This is about an entire institution using violence to protect the interests of the wealthy.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

The orders to react with violence are coming from the top. Bloomberg and other city mayors have authorized the use of pepper spray, tear gas, and batons to disperse a non-violent protest. This isn't about individual asshole cops. This is about an entire institution using violence to protect the interests of the wealthy.

Again with the leftist lie.

So why don't you protest against the fraud of banks and government officials?

I don't break the law and commit acts of violence. I do see how that has anything to do with what you said.

WTF are you talking about?

Without police presence or military, all of us including the wealthy and powerful won't be able to defend ourselves.

Not true, it only takes the tools and training, both of which can be had in this country.

 

[Dude Abides]

Of course, for you because your politics are such that by nature they can do no right.

Nope. They do right all the time. But I nevertheless try to maintain a healthy skepticism of them for reasons I explained above. For you, however, this is a two-fer, since you like it when they use violence against people and you especially like it when it's against people whose politics differ from yours.

 

[Arde5643]

Again with the leftist lie.

Seriously, dude? I expected better of you - my fault, I guess.

Keep trolling, I suppose.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

For you, however, this is a two-fer, since you like it when they use violence against people and you especially like it when it's against people whose politics differ from yours.

LOL. I have no clue where you could potential get evidence to support such nonsense.

 

[kame-sennin]

The embarrassment that came in from Philadelphia.

No, my friends who joined the force as well as officers who mentored me in school. Don't be unfair Manos, you know better.

 

[Dude Abides]

LOL. I have no clue where you could potential get evidence to support such nonsense.

That you have no clue is not in dispute.

 

[Wazzim]

I don't break the law and commit acts of violence. I do see how that has anything to do with what you said.

Dodging the question. Good lord.

Again, you stand behind the law and against criminality, why don't you protest against the TRILLIONS lost because of financial fraud of government officials and financial institutions?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

No, my friends who joined the force as well as officers who mentored me in school. Don't be unfair Manos, you know better.

That's fine I thought you were talking about Ray Lewis.

Again, you stand behind the law and against criminality, why don't you protest against the TRILLIONS lost because of financial fraud of government officials and financial institutions?

Why must I protest? I support investigations and prosecutions in the 2008 financial crisis. I contact members of congress, I vote, and I stay informed.

 

[Wazzim]

Why must I protest? I support investigations and prosecutions in the 2008 financial crisis. I contact members of congress, I vote, and I stay informed.

You stay informed, good. Now, how many of the people who were in control of the major financial institutions or government officials got prosecuted or even fired from their position?

 

[Something Wicked]

WTF are you talking about?

Without police presence or military, all of us including the wealthy and powerful won't be able to defend ourselves.

And these "kids" are not trying to get the police disbanded so I'm not sure what your talking point is about here.

Well, cut the "fuck tha police" shit then.

No one is intimidated by the OWS crowd (well, perhaps except for very young children walking with their parents to pre-school), most people are just annoyed with or dismiss the group by this point.

The police are the only ones protecting the Occupiers from the general public becoming violent against them.

You stay informed, good. Now, how many of the people who were in control of the major financial institutions or government officials got prosecuted or even fired from their position?

The financial industry has lost 100,000s of jobs since 2008- including many in upper management and CEOs of numerous companies.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Well, obviously when a cop helps a little old lady across a puddle that negates the countless episodes of over the top police brutality that have been occurring during the protests.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Well, obviously when a cop helps a little old lady across a puddle that negates the countless episodes of over the top police brutality that have been occurring during the protests.

So are you going to admit you were wrong about the books?

 

[kame-sennin]

The financial industry has lost 100,000s of jobs since 2008- including many in upper management and CEOs of numerous companies.

Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?

 

[Wazzim]

The financial industry has lost 100,000s of jobs since 2008- including many in upper management and CEOs of numerous companies.

I was talking about people fired/prosecuted directly because of their fraud, not because of bad financial results caused by the economic meltdown.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?

Ah yes Matt Taibbi...wonderful writer. lol

 

[Fusebox]

The police are the only ones protecting the Occupiers from the general public becoming violent against them.

Yeah, by parking their bicycles in their asses.

 

[kame-sennin]

Ah yes Matt Taibbi...wonderful writer. lol

You're welcome to extract quotes and do a point by point deconstruction.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

You're welcome to extract quotes and do a point by point deconstruction.

After reading his hilarious quote talking about OWS and the US murdering millions of Indochinese (and ignoring all the death caused by North Vietnam during and after it's conquest of South Vietnam), it's enough to know he's a wank. There was also his ridiculous blog post earlier today attempting to stir rich vs poor and excuse a multiple convicted drug offender conviction for fraud because of Wall Street. He's just spewing populist Anti-Capitalism to further his career. Let's not forget his hilarious and pathetic Goldman Sachs quote.

The circle jerk that often follows something being posted of his is a joke.

 

[Dude Abides]

Well, cut the "fuck tha police" shit then.

No one is intimidated by the OWS crowd (well, perhaps except for very young children walking with their parents to pre-school), most people are just annoyed with or dismiss the group by this point.

Better confer with Manos. He seems pretty scared about riots and fortified positions and whatnot.

The police are the only ones protecting the Occupiers from the general public becoming violent against them.

Have you been to Manhattan in the last two months? The general public isn't looking to do violence to the protesters.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Have you been to Manhattan in the last two months? The general public isn't looking to do violence to the protesters.

When they mess with their commute they are. A lot of people are getting more and more fore fed up with their criminal behavior, harassment of families and workers trying to get to their job.

Better confer with Manos. He seems pretty scared about riots and fortified positions and whatnot.

Except I was right about the violence they caused, which I always predicted at the beginning and people are just trying to spin away.

 

[Something Wicked]

Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?

A) Most weren't doing anything against any real laws. Government officials had years to regulate against inflating the real-estate market, which they didn't- in fact, many in Congress completely encouraged the behavior.

Then again, if you're still not convinced, find me the specific laws and which specific people who broke those laws- just blabbering company names is not sufficient.


B) The logistics of taking of 100,000s or even 10,000s of people to court with little evidence for most of the individuals would be absolutely insane. Only the lawyers would win.


C) Matt Taibbi is a hack, who works for the "very esteemed" Rolling Stone magazine. RS is essentially an American and liberal version of The Daily Mail.

Have you been to Manhattan in the last two months? The general public isn't looking to do violence to the protesters.

That's with the police presence. Without them, what's stopping a group of drunk, testosterone-filled "bros" coming back from the bar/club, and, with not getting laid that night, are looking to pick a fight. A bunch of wanna-be tough hippies- many shouting anti-American chants- would probably seem like the perfect choice in that scenario (in their minds).

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Ah yes Matt Taibbi...wonderful writer. lol

Everyone keeps forgetting that only articles supporting Manos' narrative are allowed here.

 

[JzeroT1437]

I was out on the bridge last night and found the cops to be perfectly reasonable if not entirely hospitable. They may not have wanted to be there, but they were nice enough.

As a matter of fact, I've yet to see a cop act out of line and I've been down to Liberty Square and a few other protests (Times Square) a few times.

Just a few cops are making things look bad.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Everyone keeps forgetting that only articles supporting Manos' narrative are allowed here.

I forgot only Tab circle jerk material is cool.

 

[kame-sennin]

Manos, your arguments seem to mischaracterize everything Taibbi says while - conveniently - not discussing actual quotes. If you'd like to explain or point out inaccuracies in the text of the article, I would be more than willing to read those arguments.

C) Matt Taibbi is a hack, who works for the "very esteemed" Rolling Stone magazine. RS is essentially an American and liberal version of The Daily Mail.

Your questions in 'A' and 'B' are answered in the article. As for item 'C', if you believe matt Taibbi is not a valid source, please take an excerpt from the article and explain how it is factually inaccurate. If you haven't read the article, I highly recommend that you do. I know that these debates can get contentious, but having a common set of information to debate can really improve the discourse. We may even find that we agree with each other on many issues.

 

[Dude Abides]

When they mess with their commute they are. A lot of people are getting more and more fore fed up with their criminal behavior, harassment of families and workers trying to get to their job.

Nope. How would you know the situation in lower Manhattan from the wilds of Pennsylvania?

Except I was right about the violence they caused, which I always predicted at the beginning and people are just trying to spin away.

Nope. There was some violence but it was de minimis. Certainly nothing like your risible suggestion of fortified positions.

That's with the police presence. Without them, what's stopping a group of drunk, testosterone-filled "bros" coming back from the bar/club, and, with not getting laid that night, are looking to pick a fight. A bunch of wanna-be tough hippies- many shouting anti-American chants- would probably seem like the perfect choice in that scenario (in their minds).

The police haven't been there the whole time. Lower manhattan is not Bro central.

 

[kame-sennin]

Female journalist assaulted and restrained with extremely tight cuffs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00CLssMbc-k&feature=share

I was out on the bridge last night and found the cops to be perfectly reasonable if not entirely hospitable. They may not have wanted to be there, but they were nice enough.

As a matter of fact, I've yet to see a cop act out of line and I've been down to Liberty Square and a few other protests (Times Square) a few times.

Just a few cops are making things look bad.

Absolutely. The problem is that we've put these officers in an unfair position. The public has the right to protest income inequality and fraud on a massive scale. The role of the police, one which I'm grateful for, is to make sure the demonstrations remain peaceful and safe. The problem is that Bloomberg and other mayors want to shut down these protests, which forces the police into aggressive situations. That means that a few bad eggs are going to go too far.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Nope. How would you know the situation in lower Manhattan from the wilds of Pennsylvania?



Nope. There was some violence but it was de minimis. Certainly nothing like your risible suggestion of fortified positions.



The police haven't been there the whole time. Lower manhattan is not Bro central.

I work in Manhattan, duh.

Deny all you want, but the predictions I made are correct. What do you think that truck of locks and chains where for? Didn't they try and take over a church yard.

 

[kame-sennin]

I work in Manhattan, duh.

Deny all you want, but the predictions I made are correct. What do you think that truck of locks and chains where for? Didn't they try and take over a church yard.

They retreated to a church that was supporting their movement after Zuccotti got raided.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

They retreated to a church that was supporting their movement after Zuccotti got raided.

They cut the lock to get in there.

 

[Dude Abides]

I work in Manhattan, duh.

Deny all you want, but the predictions I made are correct. What do you think that truck of locks and chains where for? Didn't they try and take over a church yard.

Damn, you commute all the way here from PA every day? You should look for a job that's either closer to where you live or pays better so you can afford to live here. In any event, us New Yorkers aren't mad at the protestors, though I can't speak for you B&T undesirables.

Anyway, you predicted fortified positions, there are none. You predicted street warfare, there is none.

 

[kame-sennin]

I just noticed that Dude Abides' avatar and Manos' avatar are perfect counterpoints. Wow.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Damn, you commute all the way here from PA every day? You should look for a job that's either closer to where you live or pays better so you can afford to live here. In any event, us New Yorkers aren't mad at the protestors, though I can't speak for you B&T undesirables.

Anyway, you predicted fortified positions, there are none. You predicted street warfare, there is none.

Actually I used to live in Park Slope. Truth be told the new commute is mostly an express train where I can read and relax in the morning.

I was also right about the predictions even if you keep trying to find flimsy excuses.

 

[Something Wicked]

Your questions in 'A' and 'B' are answered in the article. As for item 'C', if you believe matt Taibbi is not a valid source, please take an excerpt from the article and explain how it is factually inaccurate. If you haven't read the article, I highly recommend that you do. I know that these debates can get contentious, but having a common set of information to debate can really improve the discourse. We may even find that we agree with each other on many issues.

The article does not address what I stated. The article more so demonstrates the incompetence of the SEC rather than "why Wall Street should go to jail." Even the anti-SEC spiel a bit misguided, as it should have been Congress to pass laws for the SEC to enforce and the credit agencies to measure the "riskiness" of companies financial transactions.

Taibbi does not state any specific law that most of "Wall Street" broke and only gives a couple names of people who made a shit ton of money from the real-estate bubble via unethical means- not necessarily illegal means. The comment section has more intelligently written descriptions of what actually happened than Hacky Mchackhack Taibbi's populist fanboy rant.

 

[Dude Abides]

Actually I used to live in Park Slope. Truth be told the new commute is mostly an express train where I can read and relax in the morning.

I was also right about the predictions even if you keep trying to find flimsy excuses.

Nah, first you predicted nobody would care (as did I) then when it became a big story you started breathlessly predicting crazy violence (I just acted like an adult and admitted I was wrong in my initial prediction) when all there's been is a few very minor incidents.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Nah, first you predicted nobody would care (as did I) then when it became a big story you started breathlessly predicting crazy violence (I just acted like an adult and admitted I was wrong in my initial prediction) when all there's been is a few very minor incidents.

No, I was correct in the prediction of violence.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Screw the predictions, this isn't over yet so it's not safe to say that there will be no violence. Tomorrow's a new day. Especially when there's been smatterings of violence but thankfully, not a movement to bring violence.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I think it's impossible that a demonstration of this size could go without any violence at all. The violence has been relatively minor and absolutely does not represent the entire movement's attitude.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

I think it's impossible that a demonstration of this size could go without any violence at all. The violence has been relatively minor and absolutely does not represent the entire movement's attitude.

I agree. We've been very fortunate so far that it isn't widespread violence. But, again, tomorrow's another day.