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[Wazzim]

This anti-#Occupy website is fucking crazy!

http://multiculturalismisterrorism.blogspot.com/

therefore it thoroughly discredits literally any and all opposition to the OWS movement

Hahahahahaha, best site ever.

 

[venne]

Well at this point being delivered I can't say, but I'd rather be able to keep more in savings for all the random things that can occur.

I lolled at our hospital bill last year. $28k.

Granted, we paid around $2k out of pocket (not including premiums). I feel bad for anyone without healthcare after seeing that.

 

[Fari]

This anti-#Occupy website is fucking crazy!

http://multiculturalismisterrorism.blogspot.com/

therefore it thoroughly discredits literally any and all opposition to the OWS movement

No references to global warming being a hoax or vaccinations causing autism. I've seen crazier.

 

[Barrett2]

Everybody could file bankruptcy on them and be clean in 7 years. If I had 100,00 in debt and no job, it' would be a no-brainer. I suppose voiding their degree would be a fair compromise though to outright discharging. That way, bot the lender and student can realize how much time they wasted. This would then regulate underwriting guidelines so that only the ones that deserve the financial aid would get the aid.

Anyway, since that won't ever be an option and would probably generate another protest for just mentioning it, one's who do file bankruptcy can get their payments adjusted, delayed indefinitely anyway. Anyone filing for bankruptcy should also have the funds freed up to make payments. If they are still broke and unemployed, they have bigger problems than their student debt. The timeframe on credit repair could be the same or quicker than bankruptcy without stickling it to the people ones went to for the loans in the first place.

Simpler solution is to limit the financing to tuition. Make ones prove they need living expenses paid and allow for small payments to be made while in class. Require lenders to refinance based on current market rates (If that's not being done now)

Student loans were dischargeable all throughout American history, it was only several years ago that Congress and Bush changed the law to make them not dischargeable.

Why would you need to void their degree as a penalty? Are people legally prevented from starting a new business when their previous business files for bankruptcy and they lose their investor's money? Why in the world should students face harsher penalties for bankruptcy than corporations, or individuals who rack up a mountain of credit card debt buying shit they can't afford?

 

[maharg]

Student loans were dischargeable all throughout American history, it was only several years ago that Congress and Bush changed the law to make them not dischargeable.

Why would you need to void their degree as a penalty? Are people legally prevented from starting a new business when their previous business files for bankruptcy and they lose their investor's money? Why in the world should students face harsher penalties for bankruptcy that corporations?

Seriously. 7 years with no real access to credit is a pretty harsh penalty as is with the way society is currently structured. And that is also already a harsher penalty than corporations face.

 

[Barrett2]

Seriously. 7 years with no real access to credit is a pretty harsh penalty as is with the way society is currently structured. And that is also already a harsher penalty than corporations face.

The way people reacted to my previous post saying that I was "whining" says a lot about how whacked public perception is on the issue. It boggles my mind that people don't see the lunacy of carving out a category of debt as being literally one of only four things you can't get rid of in bankruptcy.

The only things not dischargeable in US bankruptcy are: secured claims, criminal fines, child support obligations, back taxes, and student loans.

One of those things is not like the other...

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Student loans were dischargeable all throughout American history, it was only several years ago that Congress and Bush changed the law to make them not dischargeable.

Why would you need to void their degree as a penalty? Are people legally prevented from starting a new business when their previous business files for bankruptcy and they lose their investor's money? Why in the world should students face harsher penalties for bankruptcy than corporations, or individuals who rack up a mountain of credit card debt buying shit they can't afford?

Well yeah but, fuck those guys. Seriously. Just fuck 'em.






...hippies.

 

[Dartastic]

Ugh. =(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Tbge3ToaA

 

[Mercury Fred]

Ugh. =(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Tbge3ToaA

Unfortunately, police brutality is turning out to be the norm, not the exception as a response to OWS's peaceful protesters =/

 

[Wazzim]

Ugh. =(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Tbge3ToaA

Police Defense Force in 3...2....1!

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Ugh. =(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Tbge3ToaA

Would you have preferred the officer used a tazer or baton? Doesn't even look like a big deal.

The cops showed a lot of restraint with the dinguses that popped up afterwords.

Police Defense Force in 3...2....1!

OWS Defense Force already showed up.


Oh Merc still won't acknowledge the books.

 

[Arde5643]

Manos as usual pops up as the Police Brutality defender #1.

 

[Mortrialus]

Would you have preferred the officer used a tazer or baton? Doesn't even look like a big deal.

A cop needlessly trips a protester and pushes away other protesters so that he can beat her before his fellow cops block him. Yeah nothing wrong there at all.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

A cop needlessly trips a protester and pushes away other protesters so that he can beat her before his fellow cops block him. Yeah nothing wrong there at all.

How do you know he was going to "beat her"? He doesn't even go near her, but some other person.

 

[makingmusic476]

Where the hell is Tim. He said he'd start streaming again this morning, but it's already 1:30 over there.

 

[.GqueB.]

Police Defense Force in 3...2....1!

I think we're all missing the mart where the woman stumbled into the cop first (which could be seen as a threatening gesture). This seems to be a big misunderstanding.

 

[Zabka]

Can we stop pretending that Manos is bad for this thread. He keeps it alive and on the first page where it would otherwise get lost.

Nope, that doesn't make sense at all.

And the cop jabs his bike into the back of that woman's leg intentionally.

 

[richiek]

I think we're all missing the mart where the woman stumbled into the cop first (which could be seen as a threatening gesture). This seems to be a big misunderstanding.

You can't be serious.

 

[.GqueB.]

You can't be serious.

You misunderstood. Im saying that the cop couldve seen that as a threatening gesture and attacked with the bike. Did he overreact? Maybe. Im just saying that this video doesnt show a cop randomly hitting a woman with a bike as people are interpreting it. She literally fell into him.

As I said. Misunderstanding. He just hit her harder, lol.

 

[Mortrialus]

How do you know he was going to "beat her"? He doesn't even go near her, but some other person.

Watch closely. The woman stumbles into the cop. The cop trips her and moves towards her but is immediately blocked and surrounded by other protesters and cops, at which point he starts pushing protesters to get to her before other cops defuse the situation.

 

[Fenderputty]

You misunderstood. Im saying that the cop couldve seen that as a threatening gesture and attacked with the bike. Did he overreact? Maybe. Im just saying that this video doesnt show a cop randomly hitting a woman with a bike as people are interpreting it. She literally fell into him.

As I said. Misunderstanding. He just hit her harder, lol.

You're a fucking joke.

 

[kame-sennin]

Retired officer: Cops work for the 1 percent
Former Philadelphia police officer Ray Lewis has some harsh words for law enforcement at OWS

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ocdnl4XlTOU

The defections continue (symbolic or otherwise).

I thought this bit was relevant to a previous discussion:

...they always take out the leader of the group. That's why, if you have a cop in here asking - undercover, plain clothes - he says, "who's the leader of this group? Who's the leader?" That's a cop.

Also:

The fact that they [NYPD], I'm told, that they confiscated all the tents and the sleeping bags and whatnot, and they trashed them. I don't know if that's true. But if that is true, to me that's theft. And they should be arrested. I don't know how true that is. But I hear they confiscated it. Whether they trashed it or not, I don't know. It might be in a place where people can go and get it.

They complain about the park being dirty. Here they are, worrying about dirty parks when people are starving to death, where people are freezing, where people are sleeping in subways, and they're concerned about a dirty park? That's obnoxious, that's arrogant, it's ignorant. It's disgusting.

He talks about police brutality as well. Amazing video.

 

[kame-sennin]

Would you have preferred the officer used a tazer or baton? Doesn't even look like a big deal.

The cops showed a lot of restraint with the dinguses that popped up afterwords.

I'm sorry Manos, but you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the law as it pertains to police and the use of force. It's not a difference of opinion, it's factual legal regulation regarding the use of force by police officers. That's why I'm so glad that the video of Captain Ray Lewis (from Philadelphia no less!) was posted:

You can only use - you should, ok, by law, only use force to protect someones life or to protect them from being bodily injured. Ok? If you're not protecting sombody's life or protecting them from bodily injury, there's no need to use force.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ocdnl4XlTOU

The officer in question was not protecting the woman, himself, or any other bystander from bodily harm, therefore the use of force was completely illegal. It's very cut and dry.

 

[Dude Abides]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ocdnl4XlTOU

The officer in question was not protecting the woman, himself, or any other bystander from bodily harm, therefore the use of force was completely illegal. It's very cut and dry.

Cop clearly overreacted, as cops tend to do, but that isn't the legal standard for use of force. Cops are permitted to use reasonable force to arrest people, for example, even if the person doesn't pose a threat to bodily harm.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Ugh. =(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Tbge3ToaA

I'm laughing so hard right now. He pushed his bike into her? Seriously.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

I think we're all missing the mart where the woman stumbled into the cop first (which could be seen as a threatening gesture). This seems to be a big misunderstanding.

...a misunderstanding? how does use of force = a misunderstanding?

I AM *THUNK* REALLY *THUNK* NOT UNDERSTANDING *THUNK* THE SITUATION *THUNK*

 

[.GqueB.]

...a misunderstanding? how does use of force = a misunderstanding?

I AM *THUNK* REALLY *THUNK* NOT UNDERSTANDING *THUNK* THE SITUATION *THUNK*

As I said before. Yes, he probably did overreact. But ALL IM SAYING IS THIS IS NOT A VIDEO OF A COP RANDOMLY ATTACKING A WOMAN WITH A BIKE.

This is ALL Im saying. Im not justifying his actions. Im not defending. Im just putting it into context which is what no one else in this thread seems to be doing. I just hate when people have these instant reactions to instances like this that are just wrong.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

That's why I'm so glad that the video of Captain Ray Lewis (from Philadelphia no less!) was posted:

It's a shame he embarrassed the city of Philadelphia by showing up in uniform. He sounds like exceptionally whinny and doesn't actually add any sort of useful comments to the mix.

I'm sorry Manos, but you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the law as it pertains to police and the use of force.

No, you dont. It appears you need to learn more about the laws and rules regarding use of force. The use of force was reasonable.

 

[Wazzim]

You misunderstood. Im saying that the cop couldve seen that as a threatening gesture and attacked with the bike. Did he overreact? Maybe. Im just saying that this video doesnt show a cop randomly hitting a woman with a bike as people are interpreting it. She literally fell into him.

As I said. Misunderstanding. He just hit her harder, lol.

Yeah lol, I bet you people would be mad as hell if a cop did the same to you. Get real.

 

[kame-sennin]

Yeah lol, I bet you people would be mad as hell if a cop did the same to you. Get real.

Which reminds me of this:

http://thinkprogress.org/special/20...y-caller-beaten-by-nypd-helped-by-protesters/

FYI, they added video at the link.

No, you do. It appears you need to learn more about the laws and rules regarding use of force. The use of force was reasonable.

I don't think that was a reasonable use of force even if force is authorized in making an arrest.

 

[richiek]

 

[.GqueB.]

Yeah lol, I bet you people would be mad as hell if a cop did the same to you. Get real.

As I said before. Yes, he probably did overreact. But ALL IM SAYING IS THIS IS NOT A VIDEO OF A COP RANDOMLY ATTACKING A WOMAN WITH A BIKE.

This is ALL Im saying. Im not justifying his actions. Im not defending. Im just putting it into context which is what no one else in this thread seems to be doing. I just hate when people have these instant reactions to instances like this that are just wrong.

.

 

[kame-sennin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbeSfDbAAmI

 

[Price Dalton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbeSfDbAAmI

Is that the same woman from the bike video?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I don't think that was a reasonable use of force even if force is authorized in making an arrest.

That's due to your politics, not an actual examination of the facts. You view these people as heroes and not criminals.

Yes, that's her hair, your point?

 

[Dude Abides]

I don't think that was a reasonable use of force even if force is authorized in making an arrest.

You have to realize that for Manos, any use of force by a cop is inherently reasonable.

 

[Arde5643]

That's due to your politics, not an actual examination of the facts. You view these people as heroes and not criminals.


Yes, that's her hair, your point?

And you view the cops as serving the "public" interest when they commit these acts to peaceful protestors.

I guess your politics deny rights to non-wealthy and non-powerful folks.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

You have to realize that for Manos, any use of force by a cop is inherently reasonable.

I can tell you any review board will do the same for a situation in such close quarters. I'm sure they'll have the chance when the NLG files a nuisance complaint about it.

And you view the cops as serving the "public" interest when they commit these acts to peaceful protestors.

"Peaceful" lol

I'm happy cops are keeping people safe from these criminals.

 

[richiek]

"Peaceful" lol

I'm happy cops are keeping people safe from these criminals.

Once again:

 

[Arde5643]

"Peaceful" lol

I'm happy cops are keeping people safe from these criminals.

I'm glad to see you have no objection about denying rights to non-wealthy and non-powerful people.

 

[.GqueB.]

And you view the cops as serving the "public" interest when they commit these acts to peaceful protestors.

I guess your politics deny rights to non-wealthy and non-powerful folks.

Why are we assuming they are "peaceful" protesters when they have been shown to not be peaceful in more than a few instances. Stop with this "protesters = good, cops = bad" mentality. Its childish. There are douchey individuals on both sides. Shitty cops, shitty protesters. Lets stop pretending otherwise.

Just yesterday, a sensible cop stopped a douchey cop from attacking a protester. Does the less douchey cop suddenly not matter in all this? Not everything is black and white.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Once again:

He doesn't look like he's even doing anything and that the kid just randomly ducked.

I'm glad to see you have no objection about denying rights to non-wealthy and non-powerful people.

I'm not wealthy or powerful and I'm happy that the NYPD did the great job it did at preventing criminals from starting a riot in the city yesterday.

 

[Arde5643]

Why are we assuming they are "peaceful" protesters when they have been shown to not be peaceful in more than a few instances. Stop with this "protesters = good, cops = bad" mentality. Its childish. There are douchey individuals on both sides. Shitty cops, shitty protesters. Lets stop pretending otherwise.

Just yesterday, a sensible cop stopped a douchey cop from attacking a protester. Does the less douchey cop suddenly not matter in all this? Not everything is black and white.

It's more or less to do with Manos' view of "any police response is always acceptable" in this sense, although I guess it's a hopeless cause since arguments are not made to make people re-think of their positions.

 

[.GqueB.]

Once again:

Oh look at this cop smiling with a protester. Look at this other cop helping an old lady across the street.

By taking that one cop and allowing him to represent the entirety of the NYPD, youre doing the same thing other people against your movement are doing. Allowing the violent/nonsensical minority to represent all of occupy wallstreet. Lets stop being hypocrites.

It really doesnt help and I hate seeing it.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

It's more or less to do with Manos' view of "any police response is always acceptable" in this sense, although I guess it's a hopeless cause since arguments are not made to make people re-think of their positions.

When you have actual evidence of unacceptable police responses I'll look at it, so far I haven't seen anything at all to suggest that.

 

[richiek]

By taking that one cop and allowing him to represent the entirety of the NYPD, youre doing the same thing other people against your movement are doing. Allowing the violent/nonsensical minority to represent all of occupy wallstreet. Lets stop being hypocrites.

It really doesnt help and I hate seeing it.

Then you should tell Manos to stop cherrypicking negative stories of OWS demonstrators and painting them as representative of the entire movement.

He doesn't look like he's even doing anything and that the kid just randomly ducked.

You don't see the absolute rage contorting his face, his clenched fists ready to attack?

EDIT: And .GqueB., do a Google images search for "NYPD Occupy Wall St". I guarantee that you'll have a hard time finding "cops helping people" images. More than likely you'll find them brutalizing them.

 

[Fenderputty]

He doesn't look like he's even doing anything and that the kid just randomly ducked.

yeah ... I mean clearly the cop is just mosh pitting in a good natured way. I'm sure the rocking drum circle provided the music required for such activities.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Oh look at this cop smiling with a protester. Look at this other cop helping an old lady across the street.

By taking that one cop and allowing him to represent the entirety of the NYPD, youre doing the same thing other people against your movement are doing. Allowing the violent/nonsensical minority to represent all of occupy wallstreet. Lets stop being hypocrites.

It really doesnt help and I hate seeing it.

Those must be fakes made and paid for by teh rich fat cats on wall street.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

You don't see the absolute rage contorting his face, his clenched fists ready to attack?

Well I figure it's easy to get angry when you're being provoked and having photos taken of you to help launch nuisance complaints and OWS propaganda. Provocation and propaganda harvesting go hand and hand. Any proof he attacked the cameraman?

 

[kame-sennin]

You have to realize that for Manos, any use of force by a cop is inherently reasonable.

I think as a society we've kind of forgotten what the purpose of a police force really is. They're here to protect our rights, but we have allowed them to use violence to protect the wealth of a very few.

Thanks for the correction earlier, btw.