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Occupy Wall St - Occupy Everywhere, Occupy Together!

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Angry Fork

Member
I didn't see this posted yet, maybe it has though sorry if so but the US davis chancellor apologized and made a statement to students about the pepper spray incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UfzQyT9nUMk#!

Even though it's a step in the right direction I see it as crocodile tears. One of the youtube comments nailed it:

She says she is there to apologize. But for what ? For her actions ? For the police assault ? She doesn't say this. On the contrary, note how she repeatedly refers to the "University" as being the problem. Not the case: the "University" i.e. students and faculty were peaceful and harmed no one. She tries to spread the blame around in this text-book non-apology apology. She also tries to gain sympathy by evoking the student massacre in Athens in 1973. This is a ruse. She is responsible.
 

Onemic

Member
Aren't they literally lying down much of the time?



I don't really understand the point of occupying spaces. You just become part of the landscape at some point and you and your message become invisible. Seems like they would get more bang for their buck if they did short events that grabbed headlines for the day.

It would be incredibly hard to create individual protests each day for this length of time to grab headlines. I doubt anyone is that coordinated to pull something like that off. With the occupy protests they're constantly in the headlines anyway and have created a ton of awareness towards the issue. It would be better if on top of that they added in the short events you mentioned, but once again they'd need to be extremely coordinated to pull it off.
 

minus_273

Banned
Google+ has been a pretty good place to keep up-to-date. If you use the topic search thing (I don't know what they call it?).

There's conspiracy theories that Twitter, because of a conflicted interest, have been stopping ows stuff from trending? Twitter has a lot of rich stock owners.

both google+ and twitter are run by evil corporations . they are part of the 1% that has destroyed the economy, middle class, human rights and the environment. have you ever thought about the carbon footprint of a tweet? all the servers needed to maintain it and the amount of heat it is dumping into the rapidly rising sea?

I started using Weibo. It is the only revolutionary option.

http://www.weibo.com/
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
Aren't they literally lying down much of the time?



I don't really understand the point of occupying spaces. You just become part of the landscape at some point and you and your message become invisible. Seems like they would get more bang for their buck if they did short events that grabbed headlines for the day.
I agree. Do people forget it's possible to have an effective protest and go home at the end of the day?
 
It would be incredibly hard to create individual protests each day for this length of time to grab headlines. I doubt anyone is that coordinated to pull something like that off. With the occupy protests they're constantly in the headlines anyway and have created a ton of awareness towards the issue. It would be better if on top of that they added in the short events you mentioned, but once again they'd need to be extremely coordinated to pull it off.

I agree with you, but I do think they do do short events (actions). The Nov. 17 protests were an example of that. The continual public presence allows more people to get freely involved, and as with anything, evidence shows that once you become involved however little, you are more likely to stay involved. So I think the occupation aspect has really helped.

I didn't see this posted yet, maybe it has though sorry if so but the US david chancellor apologized and made a statement to students about the pepper spray incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UfzQyT9nUMk#!

Even though it's a step in the right direction I see it as crocodile tears. One of the youtube comments nailed it:

I agree with that comment. She isn't accepting accountability, which is unfortunately the norm for professional elites.
 
This happend at my school Baruch in NYC yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=339RnCgVwl4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4dQ2N_J9xo

Police attacked students of Baruch College, CUNY protesting against tuition hikes and unfair labor practices. Protesters had planned to attend a public trustees meeting, but we were not permitted into the auditorium where the meeting was taking place. Instead officers surrounded protesters and started pushing them back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWaLJKLvcTE

Was suprised to see this happen at Baruch out of all CUNY/NY colleges.
 

eznark

Banned
This happend at my school Baruch in NYC yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=339RnCgVwl4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4dQ2N_J9xo

Police attacked students of Baruch College, CUNY protesting against tuition hikes and unfair labor practices. Protesters had planned to attend a public trustees meeting, but we were not permitted into the auditorium where the meeting was taking place. Instead officers surrounded protesters and started pushing them back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWaLJKLvcTE

Was suprised to see this happen at Baruch out of all CUNY/NY colleges.

Just kind of scrolled through the videos and must have missed it. What time does the attack start?
 
Just kind of scrolled through the videos and must have missed it. What time does the attack start?

16 secs into the third video, unless you dont consider being forcibly pushed out with batons and trampling people behind you and through narrow doors while youre in your own school that you pay tuition for, trying to attend a public meeting, an attack.
 
Go, CUNY kids.

Keep protesting!

It is amazing that this happened in Baruch, which is one of the big finance/business schools in NYC - and the school that would be least likely to have protesting like that. I hope this spreads to more CUNYs. Gotta get the students charged up, like they were back in the '60s!
 
If you agree with that consensus, there's no reason to not consider yourself supportive of the movement. Plus, the movement needs more reasonable people to speak out in favor of it.

Edit:

Also, what etiolate said.

There are big portions of the movment I don't agree with. That's why I don't consider my self "supportive" of it. I am supportive of their anger but not with their solutions. I don't think wall st. is always evil (I don't think it's a saint but I think it has actually done good things like contribute to the current well connected globalized world), I don't think politicians are only out from themselves, I don't want a NHS type health care system, I don't want a european type government, etc.

I just want a funcioning government. You can saw that I agree with the over all message but
its when pretty much anyone gets in to specifics they lose me. I can't just support a movement because they share my anger. I'll defend them though because they have a right to say and want what they want and shouldn't be always characterized as people who could just have jobs if they worked harder.
 
Go, CUNY kids.

Keep protesting!

It is amazing that this happened in Baruch, which is one of the big finance/business schools in NYC - and the school that would be least likely to have protesting like that. I hope this spreads to more CUNYs. Gotta get the students charged up, like they were back in the '60s!

Yea I actually sent out an email for students to support the Occupy movement when it first started but most of the replies to that email were very dismissive and telling me that I am preaching to the wrong crowd considering its a revolving door of a school to Wall Street.
 

eznark

Banned
16 secs into the third video, unless you dont consider being forcibly pushed out with batons and trampling people behind you and through narrow doors while youre in your own school that you pay tuition for, trying to attend a public meeting, an attack.

Ah.

What was the excuse? Fire code?
 
Ah.

What was the excuse? Fire code?

Nothing official that I have found yet as I just got home from school. Whats funny is one of the people arrested was a graduate adjunct professor and I got out early because my professor had to go cover his class.

And anyway, are you kidding me...fire code? The school is fuckin packed to shit all the time. This was an act of pure supression.
 

Jak140

Member
Salon to undertake project to rank corporations by their positive (and negative) impact on society:

Are U.S. corporations good citizens?

Do corporations have a social responsibility to be decent, upstanding citizens? Is there a moral imperative that the likes of Bank of America, General Electric and Apple should boost employment, refrain from contributing to inequality, or restrain themselves from despoiling the environment, simply because those are the right things to do?

If you spend even a cursory amount of time investigating this question, you will speedily find yourself reckoning with the answer delivered four decades ago by the economist Milton Friedman: A most emphatic no.

In “The Social Responsibility of Business Is to Increase Its Profits,” originally published in the New York Times Sunday Magazine in 1970, Friedman, the arch-deacon of free market economics, declared that any businessman who thinks a corporation should take “seriously its responsibilities for providing em­ployment, eliminating discrimination, avoid­ing pollution and whatever else” was “preach­ing pure and unadulterated socialism.”

Busi­nessmen who talk this way are unwitting pup­pets of the intellectual forces that have been undermining the basis of a free society these past decades
… In a free-enterprise, private-property sys­tem, a corporate executive is an employee of the owners of the business. He has direct re­sponsibility to his employers. That responsi­bility is to conduct the business in accordance with their desires, which generally will be to make as much money as possible while con­forming to the basic rules of the society, both those embodied in law and those embodied in ethical custom.

The great irony of Friedman’s hard line is that in 1970, his words probably sounded much more extreme than they do today. Despite decades of lip service to the idea of “corporate social responsibility,” the notions that corporations do best when most untrammeled by regulatory constraint or that they should only be guided by a desire to generate the maximum return on investment for their shareholders are now bedrock ideological fixations of the contemporary Republican Party.

In fact, one could well argue that we are currently closer to Friedman’s utopia than during any other period in living memory. The Supreme Court has vastly loosened restrictions on corporate spending on the political process, trade policy has supported a decades-long trend toward foreign investment, offshoring and outsourcing, corporate taxes are at a historic low, and even the worst financial crisis in decades has hardly resulted in more than a slap on the regulatory wrist for the guilty parties.

But one wonders what even Milton Friedman might think if he could survey today’s wreckage. Would he have any remorse at the sight of bailed-out banks generating huge profits while ordinary Americans struggled to find and keep jobs and millions more faced foreclosure? Would he feel any necessity to reexamine his own argument, in particular that line that states that businessmen should conform “to the basic rules of the society, both those embodied in law and those embodied in ethical custom”?

Because the huge loophole gaping wide open there is hard to miss. It has two parts:

First, what does it mean to play by the rules when you are writing the rules in your own favor? It is obviously in the interest of corporations to lobby Congress for laws that help them to increase their profits. But it is by no means clear that such a practice is in the best interest of society as a whole.

Second, there is the matter of just what precisely is defined as “embodied in ethical custom.” What do Americans believe, what values do we share that should, perhaps, also be shared by our corporations? Inadvertently or not, by throwing “custom” a bone, Friedman opened up a huge can of worms. Maybe, as a society, we do believe that corporations have an obligation to boost employment at home rather than abroad, or pay their fair share of taxes. Maybe, as a society, we think it is repugnant that Fortune 500 CEOs make 400 times as much as their average worker. Maybe, in general, we support the clean air and water regulations that corporate lobbyists are so eager to castrate?

And maybe, just maybe, we believe that corporations that are bailed out with taxpayer funds have an extra responsibility to behave as responsible citizens, and not merely as amoral profit-generating automatons.

There are other considerations to contemplate as well that Friedman appears not to have taken into account. For example, in a society where economic activity is dominated by consumers, doesn’t it matter what consumers think? In other words, if enough people find Nike’s Asian labor practices or Citigroup’s foreclosure rate so objectionable that a meaningful number actually switch their business, isn’t it in the profitmaking interest of those corporations to change their behavior to match consumer expectations?

The time is ripe for a reevaluation of the role of the corporation in American society. The passion motivating Occupy Wall Street protesters tells us this, as does the spectacle of a political and economic system that is so clearly broken.

Therefore, in the spirit of contributing to enhancing consumer enlightenment as to how our corporations rank as responsible citizens, Salon is launching a new series: The Corporate Citizen Challenge — an attempt to rate the good citizenship performance of America’s biggest companies.

Look for the first installment the week after Thanksgiving. We’ll start with the big financial institutions that benefited the most from government bailouts. We’ll evaluate them according to a series of metrics: job creation, dollars spent lobbying, total taxes paid, executive compensation, impact on the environment, and others.


But we won’t limit ourselves to just the likes of Citigroup or Bank of America. Every U.S. corporation, whether saved from bankruptcy by the federal government or not, deserves a hard look — and we welcome suggestions as to likely targets for our gaze.

Milton Friedman would hate this project — which, in and of itself, is one big obvious reason why we should undertake it. But let’s give him credit: He opened the door to this journey with his nod toward that mysterious concept of “ethical custom.”

What are our ethics? How do we want our corporations to behave? And shouldn’t we take our business elsewhere if we feel our values are being trampled? Legally speaking, the corporation is an “artificial person.” The Supreme Court obviously believes that these artificial people are true citizens insofar as their right to free speech — in the form of political advertising — is concerned. But if corporations are people too, with the rights that pertain thereto, shouldn’t they also bear some responsibility?

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/22/are_u_s_corporations_good_citizens/


I agree with you also that deregulation was harmful, but I actually think most of the harm came from the atmosphere deregulation engendered even more than the deregulation itself. I think that deregulation was another form of the expression of economic power that we have seen across the society as a whole. It's funny, when you really break society down, all you are left with is the exertion of power in its various forms. I think this is why political and economic equality is so important. It keeps the system in check and the society more functional as a whole.

(When I talk about "economic equality," I do not mean strict economic equality as in everybody earning exactly the same. I just mean some semblance of fairness in the way society's collective wealth and production gets distributed.)

Certainly, it is "the laws don't apply to us" notion in the wealthy entitlement class that has engendered the current state of rampant corruption and criminality. Also the insidious notion that wealth generation in itself somehow creates some kind of value to society, rather than one's actual contribution to the betterment of society. Ideally wealth would be earned in relation to how much one contributes, rather than how much one can syphon off of everyone below them, which is essentially a tax by the wealthy on every working American.
 
Supposedly a student that was stuck in the crowd got his head bashed by one of the cops and was bleeding everywhere once they pushed him outside.
 
Salon to undertake project to rank corporations by their positive (and negative) impact on society:

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/22/are_u_s_corporations_good_citizens/

Friedman might have understood economics (at least a little bit), but he certainly didn't know the first thing about American democracy. Corporations were historically viewed by Americans not as private businesses (which they are not), but as extensions of government power (which they are). Understood as such, one would have to be insane to suggest that a corporate executive's "responsi­bility is to conduct the business in accordance with [its shareholders'] desires." Corporations originally had clauses in the charters that created them requirements to act in the public interest.

Now, if Friedman wants to say these are the responsibilities of an owner, executive, or partner in an unincorporated business, he can be my guest. That's because, unlike shareholders in a corporation, those people are on the hook for every cent of damage their actions cause.

Anyway, asking whether corporations are "good citizens" is nonsensical. They aren't citizens at all, and treating them as though they were is how we got where we are today. They are a specie of government power. As such, what we need to do is subjugate them by reasserting our complete and unfettered dominance over them.
 

Plasmid

Member
So is it possible for OWS protestors to sue the police who randomly beat the shit out of them (in the event of having footage, or non i suppose)?

I just don't understand how police get away with bullshit like this and nothing negative happens to them.
 
So is it possible for OWS protestors to sue the police who randomly beat the shit out of them (in the event of having footage, or non i suppose)?

I just don't understand how police get away with bullshit like this and nothing negative happens to them.

Haven't you noticed yet? That the people in power, the ones that make the rules, the so called "authority" are the ones that get to abuse and not follow them as well. That's why police get away with shit like this. Thats why 4,000 peaceful protestors have been arrested and not one financial invester, banker, or regulator was arrested since 2008.
 
Certainly, it is "the laws don't apply to us" notion in the wealthy entitlement class that has engendered the current state of rampant corruption and criminality. Also the insidious notion that wealth generation in itself somehow creates some kind of value to society, rather than one's actual contribution to the betterment of society. Ideally wealth would be earned in relation to how much one contributes, rather than how much one can syphon off of everyone below them, which is essentially a tax by the wealthy on every working American.

ab-so-freakin'-lutely

this could more or less be the summation of the entire movement and what it is against.


Adam Smith proported capitalism as the most efficient method of distributing social good(s) by taking advantage of competitive aspects of our being, rather than a system of pure unabashed, irresponsible greed.
 
Thanks, I had seen the video but could not undestand what they shouted. It's a clear message, I hope Obama gets the point this time (le campaign investers say no T_T ).

EDIT: Ron seems to handle the mic checks better than Barack.

Yeah, but Ron Paul's "solution" to the problem is probably further deregulation in addition to preventing future bailouts.

He is a libertarian, afterall.
 

Jak140

Member
Friedman might have understood economics (at least a little bit), but he certainly didn't know the first thing about American democracy. Corporations were historically viewed by Americans not as private businesses (which they are not), but as extensions of government power (which they are). Understood as such, one would have to be insane to suggest that a corporate executive's "responsi­bility is to conduct the business in accordance with [its shareholders'] desires." Corporations originally had clauses in the charters that created them requirements to act in the public interest.

Now, if Friedman wants to say these are the responsibilities of an owner, executive, or partner in an unincorporated business, he can be my guest. That's because, unlike shareholders in a corporation, those people are on the hook for every cent of damage their actions cause.

Anyway, asking whether corporations are "good citizens" is nonsensical. They aren't citizens at all, and treating them as though they were is how we got where we are today. They are a specie of government power. As such, what we need to do is subjugate them by reasserting our complete and unfettered dominance over them.

I don't disagree with you in principle, but I think the purpose of the series will be to challenge the concept that corporations are citizens by taking the notion to its logical conclusion. i.e., if corportations are "citizens" what would we consider a citizen that undertakes the actions of a corporation? Most likely a psychopath. Maybe you can argue that the article is defacto conceding corporate "citizenship," but I see it rather as an attempt to challenge the idea through example. Regardless, I'm glad that this kind of dissection of individual corporations and their net effect on society will be taking place, in part inspired by OWS, as it will perhaps contribute to a knowledge pool that allows another avenue for direct action (like boycotting the worst offenders).
 

Plasmid

Member
Haven't you noticed yet? That the people in power, the ones that make the rules, the so called "authority" are the ones that get to abuse and not follow them as well. That's why police get away with shit like this. Thats why 4,000 peaceful protestors have been arrested and not one financial invester, banker, or regulator was arrested since 2008.


I see that, i guess i'm just not fully grasping how much is really controlled by the country's private sector.

Although i saw some of the citi bank protestors who were arrested in the bank are suing now.
 

Bealost

Member
I wonder if it would be possible to start a highly-moderated, hyperbole free OWS thread that had a good discussion going on without any of the crazy claims being thrown around with no evidence.

I feel like this is an incredibly important discussion worth having, and a lot of the golden posts in here are getting overshadowed by the bickering, and wild baseless claims. If I'm going to use any of the info I glean from here to help form my own opinions I'd like to see less hyperbole for sure.
 
Another video of the clash between peaceful students and police/security at Baruch College

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rvoOHAUAgQ

At 3:55 you can clearly see all the cops/security rush the students all at once without any reason or provocation. Many of the students were sitting on the floor and got trampled by the people being shoved ontop of them. Fuckin disgusting, to throw tuition paying students who were trying to attend an open committee meeting like that out of their own school.
 

Alucrid

Banned
This happend at my school Baruch in NYC yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=339RnCgVwl4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4dQ2N_J9xo

Police attacked students of Baruch College, CUNY protesting against tuition hikes and unfair labor practices. Protesters had planned to attend a public trustees meeting, but we were not permitted into the auditorium where the meeting was taking place. Instead officers surrounded protesters and started pushing them back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWaLJKLvcTE

Was suprised to see this happen at Baruch out of all CUNY/NY colleges.

What does tuition increases have to do with OWS? Or is it just another category that falls under the umbrella of OWS?
 

Alucrid

Banned
restricted educational opportunities is another measure of perpetuating social and wealth inequality. in fact, it's the primary method of such.

So OWS is less about financial reform and more about promoting social and wealth equality now?


You're exactly right. The bucket of water represents: a job, a mortgage, a small amount of savings. Millions of people have lost their buckets, but you still have yours and you know others have theirs too, so is there enough buckets to stop the fire from spreading? Probably, so don't change anything.

I'll be completely honest, I have no clue what you mean now and your explanation seems completely derivative from your original post.
 
I wonder if it would be possible to start a highly-moderated, hyperbole free OWS thread that had a good discussion going on without any of the crazy claims being thrown around with no evidence.

I feel like this is an incredibly important discussion worth having, and a lot of the golden posts in here are getting overshadowed by the bickering, and wild baseless claims. If I'm going to use any of the info I glean from here to help form my own opinions I'd like to see less hyperbole for sure.

i'd love that as well, perhaps ask the moderator Opiate to do it in vein of his discussion series. The trolls would be banned in a second for disrupting discussion.

So OWS is less about financial reform and more about promoting social and wealth equality now?

Is that an issue with you? It is about an overall restructuring of our financial, economic, political and social institutions which have been manipulated to serve the interests of what is almost a landed aristocracy.
 
What does tuition increases have to do with OWS? Or is it just another category that falls under the umbrella of OWS?

Tuition has been on the rise like crazy since the financial collapse of 2008....

Many of the federal/state policies regarding the allocation of funding towards public colleges like Baruch is in direct contradiction to these same policy makers and fund allocators refusal to slash anything away from the upper 1%.
 

Alucrid

Banned
i'd love that as well, perhaps ask the moderator Opiate to do it in vein of his discussion series. The trolls would be banned in a second for disrupting discussion.



Is that an issue with you? It is about an overall restructuring of our financial, economic, political and social institutions which have been manipulated to serve the interests of what is almost a landed aristocracy.

Yes actually. I find one of them completely feasible, the other not so much.
 
Yes actually. I find one of them completely feasible, the other not so much.

what makes financial reform feasible, and corporate, educational, media, healthcare and other fundamental issues in drastic need of reform not feasible?

these absolute core issues are still here, they are still affecting us to the heart as a nation, and this is the chance to fix them. The symbol of Wall Street is an overarching one of institutions that are structurally corrupt and in no way meant to serve the needs of society in general. There's basically unanimous opinion in our country that our education and healthcare systems are fundamentally broken, and that corporate laws related to everything from media consolidation to unabashed manipulation of laws to benefit themselves at others expense are pretty much accepted to be huge issues to those who have been educated on the issues.
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
So OWS is less about financial reform and more about promoting social and wealth equality now?




I'll be completely honest, I have no clue what you mean now and your explanation seems completely derivative from your original post.

OWS has always encompassed a large number of things, it's one of the reasons it's been accused of having no clear message or goals. Financial reform, getting money out of politics, raising taxes on the super rich and corporations, the disturbing wealth gap and everything that fits under that umbrella, including the meteoric and dangerous rise in tuition costs.
 

Alucrid

Banned
what makes financial reform feasible, and corporate, educational, media, healthcare and other fundamental issues in drastic need of reform not feasible?

these issues are still here, they are still affecting us to the core as a nation, and this is the chance to fix them. The symbol of Wall Street is an overarching one of institutions that are structurally corrupt and in no way meant to serve the needs of society in general.

One is as broad as a barn yard door, the other is much more narrow in scope. If you can get financial reform that is at least a step in the right direction towards addressing the issue of wealth inequality and it's certainly more productive to focus on that one issue, deal with it and move on to the next.
 
One is as broad as a barn yard door, the other is much more narrow in scope. If you can get financial reform that is at least a step in the right direction towards addressing the issue of wealth inequality and it's certainly more productive to focus on that one issue, deal with it and move on to the next.

i agree, but due to the fact that they are so deeply and intricately interwoven, it's hard to deal with any of them as an isolate.
 

sphagnum

Banned
One is as broad as a barn yard door, the other is much more narrow in scope. If you can get financial reform that is at least a step in the right direction towards addressing the issue of wealth inequality and it's certainly more productive to focus on that one issue, deal with it and move on to the next.

If you don't support the broad options, think of it this way: when negotiating, you have to shoot for the moon so that you can whittle things down in your final agreement. This is why, for example, Obama's negotiation tactics always fail, because he starts from a moderate position and ends up agreeing to something the Republicans of the 90s would have wanted.

Protests should have a strong element of idealism to them. That's what gives the protesters hope and what drives them, and the wider your demands are, the more leverage they will give you when you have to actually get down to brass tacks.
 

Alucrid

Banned
If you don't support the broad options, think of it this way: when negotiating, you have to shoot for the moon so that you can whittle things down in your final agreement. This is why, for example, Obama's negotiation tactics always fail, because he starts from a moderate position and ends up agreeing to something the Republicans of the 90s would have wanted.

Protests should have a strong element of idealism to them. That's what gives the protesters hope and what drives them, and the wider your demands are, the more leverage they will give you when you have to actually get down to brass tacks.

It's a double edged sword though. Also, who exactly are we negotiating with and how will that negotiation go down?


One of them is completely useless without the other.

One brings us one step closer to the other.
 
It's a double edged sword though. Also, who exactly are we negotiating with and how will that negotiation go down?

it's a cliche, but essentially, the system itself. It's not one facet, but quite literally the entire American (or to an extent, perhaps Western) system of banking, for one.

They are so deeply interwoven that, as said, it's hard to isolate one; Corporate media consolidation allows for the landed aristocracy (this is a misnomer technically i know) to perpetuate a culture and way of thinking that supports and justifies them. this creates a case of classic False Consciousnes, which is always fun.

The way banking and other cartels can run amock is also hard to isolate; this affects everything from Monsanto literally copyrighting genetic code, to book cartels that are so obviously scamming us that it's almost a joke.
 

sphagnum

Banned
It's a double edged sword though. Also, who exactly are we negotiating with and how will that negotiation go down?

That's to be seen, I guess, due to the nature of OWS. I think that comes down to whether you want it to be something outside the system or not. Hardcore occupiers do - those who believe representative democracy has entirely failed and want to revolutionize society by establishing occupations as new centers of direct democracy in their hometowns; these types don't want to negotiate in the first place, and they're the anarchist/socialist/communist bloc. The reformist element, meanwhile, is progressive/left-liberal and I suspect their intention is to vote for third party or left-leaning Democratic candidates to try and gain power in Congress like the Tea Party did. If that's the way things go, then we "negotiate" through demanding progressive legislation much the same way the Tea Party "negotiated" through demanding conservative legislation.
 
Does anyone have a good study or paper on why income inequality is a negative thing? My friends demanding proof (who though people really thought it was good?).
 

maharg

idspispopd
Thanks, I had seen the video but could not undestand what they shouted. It's a clear message, I hope Obama gets the point this time (le campaign investers say no T_T ).

EDIT: Ron seems to handle the mic checks better than Barack.

I don't think Obama handled it badly at all, but his crowd sure did get bitchy.
 
Does anyone have a good study or paper on why income inequality is a negative thing? My friends demanding proof (who though people really thought it was good?).

this definitely sounds more doctrinal or related to an ideology than someone really wanting to look at some analysis on minutiae of wealth distribution and it's perceived affects.

basically; you work more to be paid less, to get less benefits and to live an overall harder life all to benefit members higher in the hierarchy disproportionate to their own contribution. Don't really need an essay to explain that :p

Dahl's Who Governs is more or less a study on how democracy actually functions in relation to wealth and such.
just have him read An inquiry into the Wealth of Nations i suppose
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
Does anyone have a good study or paper on why income inequality is a negative thing? My friends demanding proof (who though people really thought it was good?).
I don't know of any papers or acticles online, but the greater the wealth gap, the more money gets hoarded at the top doing virtually nothing instead of being circulated through the economy doing good. This book does a pretty good job at explaining it, and is a pretty quick read. Also, watch this.
 
this definitely sounds more doctrinal or related to an ideology than someone really wanting to look at some analysis on minutiae of wealth distribution and it's perceived affects.

basically; you work more to be paid less, to get less benefits and to live an overall harder life all to benefit members higher in the hierarchy disproportionate to their own contribution. Don't really need an essay to explain that :p
Even like a krugman article would be great. Just something that can explain better than me how it drags growth down. I just can´t formulate a argument. My mind is too scattershot.


I don't know of any papers or acticles online, but the greater the wealth gap, the more money gets hoarded at the top doing virtually nothing instead of being circulated through the economy doing good. This book does a pretty good job at explaining it, and is a pretty quick read. Also, watch this.

That´s been my argument so far. But some people just have a talent at writing that out and making it easy to follow. I don´t. haha. That video looks great! Thanks!
 
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