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[Alpha-Bromega]

I don't know of any papers or acticles online, but the greater the wealth gap, the more money gets hoarded at the top doing virtually nothing instead of being circulated through the economy doing good. This book does a pretty good job at explaining it, and is a pretty quick read. Also, watch this.

that video is exactly what idhave recommended, show your friend that.

 

[Bealost]

Why exactly should we settle for either or? Is there a reason we can't have both? I feel like part of the problem is that we are conditioned to assume that we can't have what is best for us for some reason.

Education was something I used to discuss with my HS Physics teacher. She always found it strange that you should have to pay so much for an education when in reality it is only causing you to become a "better" member of society.

 

[demon]

That´s been my argument so far. But some people just have a talent at writing that out and making it easy to follow. I don´t. haha. That video looks great! Thanks!

Then you should read that book I linked to, just get it from a library or something. Again it's a pretty quick read...I'm a slow reader and read it in three sittings.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Why exactly should we settle for either or? Is there a reason we can't have both? I feel like part of the problem is that we are conditioned to assume that we can't have what is best for us for some reason.

Education was something I used to discuss with my HS Physics teacher. She always found it strange that you should have to pay so much for an education when in reality it is only causing you to become a "better" member of society.

well the idea is that since education is a societal good it should be a societal cost, rather than burdening individuals disproportionally. But this is a reflection of ideals; Europeans tend to be respectful and cherish knowledge and education, while the U.S. is famously Anti-Intellectual due to its founding groups.

the cost of education is reflective of that

further reading into the subject; Anti-Intellectualism in American Life by Richard Hofstadter. Pulitzer prize winner if that means anything, i thought it was quite informative

 

[el retorno]

Then you should read that book I linked to, just get it from a library or something. Again it's a pretty quick read...I'm a slow reader and read it in three sittings.

I´ll put it on my list to read.

But this is a reflection of ideals; Europeans tend to be respectful and cherish knowledge and education, while the U.S. is famously Anti-Intellectual due to its founding groups.

See I disagree with this. I really don´t think American´s disvalue education. Its more of a distrust of authority at least in my opinion. They´d rather find things for themselves than have it be told as the gospel.

 

[Bealost]

Does anyone have a good study or paper on why income inequality is a negative thing? My friends demanding proof (who though people really thought it was good?).

Its not a study or paper, but it looks like a decent source to me.
http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

 

[Bealost]

I´ll put it on my list to read.



See I disagree with this. I really don´t think American´s disvalue education. Its more of a distrust of authority at least in my opinion. They´d rather find things for themselves than have it be told as the gospel.

I don't think we necessarily dis-value education, it's more like we value it in terms of monetary compensation. We treat it like an investment rather than a right.

 

[empty vessel]

Its not a study or paper, but it looks like a decent source to me.
http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

That is a good and solid presentation.

See also: Equality and Efficiency

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2011/09/Berg.htm

And: A Comparative Study of Inequality and Corruption

http://irps.ucsd.edu/assets/003/5298.pdf (PDF)

 

[el retorno]

That is a good and solid presentation.

See also: Equality and Efficiency

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2011/09/Berg.htm

And: A Comparative Study of Inequality and Corruption

http://irps.ucsd.edu/assets/003/5298.pdf (PDF)

I do like you using and IMF paper! but yea that was already brought up by someone else but was dismised. I got out of there while I could. I wasn't making progress.

 

[Cimarron]

I was at Occupy Boston for about 20 minutes yesterday and it stunk and was infested by huge rats! I admire their spunk though. They just need to get over this leaderless movement bullshit.

 

[sphagnum]

I genuinely don't understand why a movement needs to have a leader. I can understand wanting to have clear demands, but why does it have to have a particular person at its forefront?

 

[Kccitystar]

I genuinely don't understand why a movement needs to have a leader. I can understand wanting to have clear demands, but why does it have to have a particular person at its forefront?

Without a human face people will feel alienated from the cause itself?

 

[maharg]

I think if it had had a clear leader and clear agenda, it wouldn't have lasted anywhere near this long.

 

[Bealost]

The more specific the cause the less support it would get.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Just wanted you guys to know I was one of the people chanting at Obama's speech in New Hampshire today. I wish it had gone better, but it was still effective.

I don't think Obama handled it badly at all, but his crowd sure did get bitchy.

The high school seniors were the main problem. The only real incident was after when we went to a pizza joint. A woman Obama supporter was flipping out on us. I mention woman because when we tried to walk away because of her hostility, she said "you can't even speak to a woman?" I didn't really disagree with what she was saying to us (Republicans are a big problem), but her anger was misdirected. While we were eating pizza someone went out to talk to her calmly.

 

[empty vessel]

I think if it had had a clear leader and clear agenda, it wouldn't have lasted anywhere near this long.

I agree. Discrediting and/or incapacitating leaders has been a tactic for combating popular movements. And that's not just by the right wing but perhaps especially the government. The government ran very effective whisper campaigns against the Black Panthers in the 1960s that are even crediting with successfully destroying it. It got to the point where leaders within the movement could not trust each other. See COINTELPRO:

In addition to setting rival groups against the Panthers, the FBI employed the full range of COINTELPRO techniques to create rifts and factions within the Party itself which it was believed would "neutralize" the Party's effectiveness."

Anonymous letters were commonly used to sow mistrust. For example, in March 1969 the Chicago FBI Field Office learned that a local BPP member feared that a faction of the Party, allegedly led by Fred Hampton and Bobby Rush, was "out to get" him. 56 Headquarters approved sending an anonymous letter to Hampton which was drafted to exploit dissension within the BPP as well as to play on mistrust between the Blackstone Rangers and the Chicago BPP leadership:

Brother Hampton:

Just a word of warning. A Stone friend tells me [name deleted] wants the Panthers and is looking for somebody to get you out of the way. Brother Jeff is supposed to be interested. I'm just a black man looking for blacks working together, not more of this gang banging. 57​

Bureau documents indicate that during this time an informant within the BPP was also involved in maintaining the division between the Panthers and the Blackstone Rangers. 57a

In December 1968, the Chicago FBI Field Office learned that a leader of a Chicago youth gang, the Mau Mau's, planned to complain to the national BPP headquarters about the local BPP leadership and questioned its loyalty. 58 FBI headquarters approved an anonymous letter to the Mail Mau leader, stating:

Brother [deleted] :

I'm from the south side and have some Panther friends that know you and tell me what's been going. I know those two [name deleted] and [name deleted] that run the Panthers for a long time and those mothers been with every black outfit going where it looked like they was something in it for them. The only black people they care about is themselves. I heard too they're sweethearts and that [name deleted] has worked for the man that's why he's not in Viet Nam. Maybe that's why they're just playing like real Panthers. I hear a lot of the brothers are with you and want those mothers out but don't know how. The Panthers need real black men for leaders not freaks. Don't give up 'brothers. [Emphasis added.] 59

A black friend.​

The FBI also resorted to anonymous phone calls. The San Diego Field Office placed anonymous calls to local BPP leaders naming other BPP members as "police agents." According to a report from the field office, these calls, reinforced by rumors spread by FBI informants within the BPP, induced a group of Panthers to accuse three Party members of working for the police. The field office boasted that one of the accused members fled San Diego in fear for his life. 60

The FBI conducted harassing interviews of Black Panther members to intimidate them and drive them from the Party. The Los Angeles Field Office conducted a stringent interview program

in the hope that a state of distruct [sic] might remain among the members and add to the turmoil presently going on within the BPP. 61

The Los Angeles office claimed that similar tactics had cut the membership of the United States (US) by 50 percent. 62

FBI agents attempted to convince landlords to force Black Panther members and offices from their buildings. The Indianapolis Field Office reported that a local landlord had yielded to its urgings and promised to tell his Black Panther tenants to relocate their offices. 63 The San Francisco office sent in article from the Black Panther newspaper to the landlord of a BPP member who had rented an apartment under an assumed name. The article, which had been written by that member and contained her picture and true name, was accompanied by an anonymous note stating, "(false name) is your tenant (true name)" 64 The San Francisco office secured the eviction of one Black Panther who lived in a public housing project by informing the Housing Authority officials that she was using his apartment for the BPP Free Breakfast Program. 65 When it was learned that the BPP was conducting a Free Breakfast Program "In the notorious Haight-Ashbury District of San Francisco," the Bureau mailed a letter to the owners of the building:

Dear Mr. (excised):

I would call and talk to you about this matter, but I am not sure how you feel, and I do not wish to become personally embroiled with neighbors. It seems that the property owners on (excised) Street have had enough trouble in the past without bringing in Black Panthers.

Maybe you are not aware, but the Black Panthers have taken over (address deleted). Perhaps if you drive up the street, you can see what they are going to do to the property values. They have already plastered a nearby garage with big Black Panther posters.

-- A concerned property owner. 66​

The Bureau also attempted to undermine the morale of Panther members by attempting to break up their marriages. In one case, an anonymous letter was sent to the wife of a prominent Panther leader stating that her husband had been having affairs with several teenage girls and had taken some of those girls with him on trips. 67 Another Panther leader told a Committee staff member that an FBI agent had attempted to destroy his marriage by visiting his wife and showing photographs purporting to depict him with other women. 68

http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/churchfinalreportIIIc.htm

Just wanted you guys to know I was one of the people chanting at Obama's speech in New Hampshire today. I wish it had gone better, but it was still effective.

Congrats!

 

[kame-sennin]

I genuinely don't understand why a movement needs to have a leader. I can understand wanting to have clear demands, but why does it have to have a particular person at its forefront?

I posted this in the UC Davis thread:

As I mentioned earlier, OWS is a non-hierarchical movement. My apologies for not elaborating. What that means is that the people at OWS have a moral aversion to a single leader or a small group of leaders. This is central to OWS, so asking them to elect a leader would be like asking a pro-democracy movement to select a king. What a non-hierarchical or horizontal organization means is that no one person has authority or elevated status above anyone else. This has the benefit of giving women, people of color, and other traditionally marginalized groups an equal voice. In a horizontal organization, all decisions are made by consensus. Every member of the group must come to an agreement or compromise. This is an incredibly slow way of making decisions, but it has the advantage of preventing the tyranny of the majority wherein minority groups are forced to live with solutions that benefit the majority but disadvantage the minority (as an aside, consensus voting also puts the breaks on irrational decision making, like the original vote that made the Patriot Act into law). From a tactical standpoint, a horizontal organization also has the advantage of being impossible to decapitate. As we know from history, and as retired police Captain Ray Lewis explained, the government deals with political movements it doesn't like by finding the leadership and arresting or discrediting them (or worse). This is done to create disorder and dysfunction within the movement, and has successfully destroyed political movements in the past. However, these tactics are useless when there are no leaders, when anyone can propose a course of action, and when the group must be unified around every decision. You can disagree with the idea of horizontal organizations, but that's what OWS is, and it's central to the movement.

 

[minus_273]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45402815

Some demonstrators are planning to occupy retailers on Black Friday to protest "the business that are in the pockets of Wall Street."

Organizers are encouraging consumers to either occupy or boycott retailers that are publicly traded, according to the Stop Black Friday website.

if you are butt hurt 1%ter. i have only one thing to say,

Stop black friday! stop capitalism!

 

[kame-sennin]

Carl Rove ad attacking Elizabeth Warren and associating her with OWS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxez4ddpa0&feature=player_embedded

 

[Divvy]

Man if they thing the cops are bad, wait until they get between black friday shoppers and their loot.

 

[alstein]

Black Friday boycott is stupid, they'll just reap the same profits later when you come in later.

You want to make an impact, boycott particular businesses- something you can actually substitute easier. Buy from small business instead of big business. That would make sense.

This is as dumb as gas station one-day boycotts.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Man if they thing the cops are bad, wait until they get between black friday shoppers and their loot.

Yep. They'll really hate capitalism then.

 

[empty vessel]

Black Friday boycott is stupid, they'll just reap the same profits later when you come in later.

You want to make an impact, boycott particular businesses- something you can actually substitute easier. Buy from small business instead of big business. That would make sense.

This is as dumb as gas station one-day boycotts.

Boycotts are typically useful only as means of keeping people involved and active. If you have enough people to make a boycott politically effective, well, then you don't need to boycott anything, because you've already got sufficient political power to accomplish directly what a boycott is intended to do indirectly.

 

[aronnov reborn]

Get the fuck in my way on Black Friday OWS.. I dare you.

 

[Wazzim]

Carl Rove ad attacking Elizabeth Warren and associating her with OWS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxez4ddpa0&feature=player_embedded

'old' but still a funny ad
especially the part of 'We need jobs, not intellectual theories and protests'.
They are encouraging people to stay dumb, how can they even air this without a backlash?

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Get the fuck in my way on Black Friday OWS.. I dare you.

The black Friday boycott is petty bullshit and not-at-all well thought out, but lol at internet tough guy here. For all things, a potential shopping inconvenience.

 

[marrec]

'old' but still a funny ad
especially the part of 'We need jobs, not intellectual theories and protests'.
They are encouraging people to stay dumb, how can they even air this without a backlash?

Consider the target audience...

:-/

 

[aronnov reborn]

The black Friday boycott is petty bullshit and not-at-all well thought out, but lol at internet tough guy here. For all things, a potential shopping inconvenience.

actually would be nice if citizens actually cleaned up the flea party.

 

[daycru]

actually would be nice if citizens actually cleaned up the flea party.

Go down to your local occupation and start swinging then. Give them hippies what for, they're threatening your way of life.

 

[makingmusic476]

The live stream's showing items destroyed by police in the Zucotti raid last week:

http://www.ustream.tv/theother99

Lots of books. They also showed some laptops a few days ago, I believe.

Edit:

Apparently they're about to hold a press conference of some sort.

Edit 2:

Actually, it looks like all that took place this morning. Hm.

 

[Prologue]

The black Friday boycott is petty bullshit and not-at-all well thought out, but lol at internet tough guy here. For all things, a potential shopping inconvenience.

Internet tough guy? Have you seen those black friday videos? If you think the cops are being bad, stand in the way of those shoppers.

 

[StoOgE]

Dear Hippies: I am getting engaged in New York next week. Please stay away from us and don't occupy anything romantic.

Thanks.

 

[cutmeamango]

I find the talk about leadership interesting. Could anyone point out a successful movement that had no clear leaders (not necessarily a representative face/name) or thinkers behind it?
I haven't been following the OWS closely aside this topic and the numerous ones that pop in OT, but it appears to me that there is no sense of union aside the name or intelligent practices other than protesting. Complaints are not voiced as loudly as they could be since there is a waste of energy since there is no clear goal other than complain.
Which I believe it might be a valid way to proceed as long as they keep it going relentlessly, like water on stone and this sort of analogy.

 

[StoOgE]

I find the talk about leadership interesting. Could anyone point out a successful movement that had no clear leaders (not necessarily a representative face/name) or thinkers behind it?
I haven't been following the OWS closely aside this topic and the numerous ones that pop in OT, but it appears to me that there is no sense of union aside the name or intelligent practices other than protesting. Complaints are not voiced as loudly as they could be since there is a waste of energy since there is no clear goal other than complain.
Which I believe it might be a valid way to proceed as long as they keep it going relentlessly, like water on stone and this sort of analogy.

The biggest issue with a decentralized message like this is that someone will eventually hijack the movement and give it a central message.. but you'll have a hell of a time controlling who that person is. It's why I can't get behind OWS at all despite having some similar views to a lot of what they are saying. I'm not going to go protest and lend my voice to a group without a message that could be hijacked by anyone and anyone can claim to speak "for the group". I'm going going to go protest and have some crazy I disagree with get on TV and speak on my behalf. Say what you will about the tea party movement, at least they stood for something prior to the protests.

From what I've seen the DC protests seem to be going more middle of the road liberals, while the NYC one seems to be leaning heavily towards the WTO protest anarchists. If this has staying power, someone will wind up taking it over.

The "occupy Austin" movement is about 70% homeless people who figured out the police stopped arresting them for sleeping on the sidewalks if they went to city hall.

 

[empty vessel]

I find the talk about leadership interesting. Could anyone point out a successful movement that had no clear leaders (not necessarily a representative face/name) or thinkers behind it?
I haven't been following the OWS closely aside this topic and the numerous ones that pop in OT, but it appears to me that there is no sense of union aside the name or intelligent practices other than protesting. Complaints are not voiced as loudly as they could be since there is a waste of energy since there is no clear goal other than complain.
Which I believe it might be a valid way to proceed as long as they keep it going relentlessly, like water on stone and this sort of analogy.

Realistically, the only thing that matters is how many people the movement can bring out onto the streets. Everything else the movement does might be interesting or thought-provoking or intellectually stimulating or whatever, but at the end of the day, only bodies on the streets matter for effecting political change. In that regard, everything OWS should be doing when it is not conducting a major action should be directed towards increasing its active supporters for its next major action.

The biggest issue with a decentralized message like this is that someone will eventually hijack the movement and give it a central message.. but you'll have a hell of a time controlling who that person is. It's why I can't get behind OWS at all despite having some similar views to a lot of what they are saying. I'm not going to go protest and lend my voice to a group without a message that could be hijacked by anyone and anyone can claim to speak "for the group". I'm going going to go protest and have some crazy I disagree with get on TV and speak on my behalf. Say what you will about the tea party movement, at least they stood for something prior to the protests.

I think the decentralization actually prevents what you fear. But the message, believe it or not, is far less important than the general expression of discontent. It isn't as though people involved in OWS are ever going to be getting elected into high office and running the government, or even negotiating directly with congressional representatives and the president. Movements effect change (reform) not by taking power themselves but by scaring elites into appeasing a public threatening to upend the social order (hence the critical importance of bodies on the streets, discussed above). It doesn't matter much, if at all, what is actually said by protesters. Believe me, economic and political elites understand full well what drives the discontent behind a movement like OWS and know full well what political and economic reforms would quell it.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

actually would be nice if citizens actually cleaned up the flea party.

Something tells me a guy like you wouldn't need much of a reason to take a swing at some OWS people, testicular fortitude notwithstanding.

 

[cutmeamango]

Realistically, the only thing that matters is how many people the movement can bring out onto the streets. Everything else the movement does might be interesting or thought-provoking or intellectually stimulating or whatever, but at the end of the day, only bodies on the streets matter for effecting political change. In that regard, everything OWS should be doing when it is not conducting a major action should be directed towards increasing its active supporters for its next major action.

But how can you reach for a mass adoption if there is no common goal aside showing insatisfaction (no common insatisfaction either, other than 1% vs 99%)? I believe that could work, but again, in a relentless fashion.
As I said in another topic, (in my perspective) changes only occur if it seems fit to those who hold the power or there is someone with power enough to overthrone. How can they inspire fear when they look as the same spineless mass that are manipulated at every election period? And even worst, when they inspire doubt (loosely playing StoOgE's concerns as a general public position) to those that should be part of it?

And if there is one thing that nature shows us is that a society with no hierarchy is more energy consuming and it requires even more intelligence and cohesion to work.
Which going by StoOgE's loose summary, doesn't look like it.

 

[Mercury Fred]

The Occupy Wall Street Library: Librarians Display the Ruins
By Nick Pinto Wed., Nov. 23 2011 at 4:20 PM

Mike Bloomberg has already come under fire for just about every aspect of the late-night raid that cleared Occupy Wall Street out of Zuccotti last week. From reports of police violence, to keeping members of the press from observing the action, to disregarding a restraining order reopening the park, to the apparent damage and destruction of personal property seized at the park, the mayor has faced a lot of questioning over his handling of the eviction.

But one of the strongest issues to arise from the raid is the treatment of the 5,000-volume People's Library housed at the park. The Bloomberg administration originally claimed that the library was intact and ready to be reclaimed, but that assertion has unraveled, and it now appears that the self-proclaimed free-speech mayor is in the awkward position of having presided over the destruction of thousands of books.

Today, the volunteer librarians who presided over the collection -- all of it donated, many by authors of the works themselves -- held a press conference to display what remains of the library. It's a pretty sorry picture.

For many, the People's Library was one of the most remarkable institutions to arise from the occupation of Zuccotti Park. Its generous lending policy and catholic scope -- George Orwell shared space with Ayn Rand and J.K. Rowling -- made it one of the

Only a third of the collection has been recovered from the city, and librarians and their lawyers assume the rest have been destroyed. Most of what has been recovered is damaged, about a third of them so badly that they're unusable.

Many of these were on display on a conference table at the press conference, and the profusion of mildew, snapped bindings, and crumpled, filthy pages made it seem entirely plausible that the entire library had been treated like trash.

Norman Siegel, a lawyer working with the librarians, clearly knows a good visual when he sees one. Prominent in the mess were damaged holy books, brutalized Bibles sharing space with wrecked copies of the Bhagavad Gita.

Librarians, like the other occupiers, were given only 15 minutes notice before the eviction, and so didn't have time to remove the library. At the press conference, they told of rebuilding their library with new donations after the eviction -- only to have their new collection taken by police again, the books placed in the trash and smeared with old food.

The American Library Association has released a statement against the destruction of the library.

Like good librarians -- many of them have or are pursuing degrees in library science -- the volunteers maintained a thorough catalog of the collection, so they know exactly what they had and what's missing.

Librarians declined to put a monetary value on the missing and destroyed books.
"So many people have had so many things to say about how our movement lacks focus or the people down here don't really know how to say what it is they have to say or they're making ridiculous demands," said Daniel Norton, a library science student who has been volunteering at the People's Library. "And I think what this represented and what we were affording people was the literacy to articulate their criticism. So to place a dollar value on the physical books themselves would completely undervalue what it was that the library was affording people."

Instead of cash damages, the librarians are asking the city to replace books that have been lost or damaged. They're also asking for a promise that this sort of destruction of a working library will never happen again. Thirdly, and perhaps the greatest stretch, they're asking the city to provide a space for the library going forward.

And if the city doesn't comply? Siegel declined to answer questions about whether a lawsuit was imminent, saying only, "Anyone in this room who knows myself or [National Lawyers Guild NYC Chapter Head] Gideon Oliver standing here, what's Clint Eastwood's favorite line? 'Make my day.'"

Here are some more pictures of damaged books:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/11/the_occupy_wall.php

 

[XMonkey]

What a shame. The open libraries are one of the hallmarks of the Occupation and served a vital function in helping spread awareness and education.

Also, I saw a few people who wished more up-to-date news was posted in this thread. I agree and I'd like to post some of the better articles I come across, but I'd like to remind everyone that following either your local Occupy page on Facebook/Twitter and some of the bigger Occupation Facebook pages like Wall Street, LA, Portland, etc. is probably the best way to get daily updates on what's going on. Enough things are posted daily from those direct sources to keep a pretty steady flow of information going if that's what you're looking for.

 

[Joe]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...rs-not-interfere-press_n_1111232.html?m=false

nypd ordered to ease up on journalists covering ows

 

[Slavik81]

many of them have or are pursuing degrees in library science

...library science?

 

[ToxicAdam]

...library science?

No wonder they have student loans they can't repay.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

...library science?

yep, learn to be a librarian, do research, catalog, cross reference, etc. it's legit. law firms need one for example.

 

[travisbickle]

No wonder they have student loans they can't repay.

Library science is like accountancy for necessary role within society.

 

[alstein]

Library science is like accountancy for necessary role within society.

What does a library science degree give you that a normal degree really wouldn't? Possibly ignorance, but I think the skillset is something any college graduate would have.

 

[travisbickle]

What does a library science degree give you that a normal degree really wouldn't? Possibly ignorance, but I think the skillset is something any college graduate would have.

Wow, I never would have thought such a mundane, harmless response would have made me quit GAF, but this reply has!

Alstein, you've been very helpful.

Bye.

 

[Halvie]

yep, learn to be a librarian, do research, catalog, cross reference, etc. it's legit. law firms need one for example.

Librarian jobs actually pay pretty decent around here...require a masters, but not shabby pay.

 

[shuri]

translation: Occupy movement - the pressure is rising

 

[alstein]

Wow, I never would have thought such a mundane, harmless response would have made me quit GAF, but this reply has!

Alstein, you've been very helpful.

Bye.

I did not mean the remark to be a disparagement, and if it came off that way, I apologize.

I just think those skills that were mentioned, are skills that any graduate from a decent degree program would need in order to do the papers and projects required for a degree. It just seems like something that it more part of the general experience, then a degree in itself. Maybe I'm just overestimating the skills of graduates, or what it takes.




That said: as a caveat, I have a degree myself that I'll never use (economics) , and instead my military experience gave me my career (and pay is about equivalent) . Economics degree is useful in everyday life, and ironically, economics knowledge about utility is a big reason why I feel ok with rejecting a chance to carry on in order to do what I do now (pays a bit less, but is much more enjoyable work, despite the hours)

 

[teruterubozu]

And the anti-intellectualism of America continues.