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[Door2Dawn]

To be fair, "mad stupid" sounds kinda dumb as well.

 

[Keru_Shiri]

That's fucking awesome.

Do people just not realize that we're in a recession and that jobs just aren't growing on trees?

 

[Ripclawe]

#OccupyHouston

Spectacular. Not there isn't legit gripes but so far I am seeing the same 20+ year old youth who want some sort of free ride under the guise of making things more "equitable" meaning the better off carry them on their coattails.

 

[water_wendi]

Spectacular. Not there isn't legit gripes but so far I am seeing the same 20+ year old youth who want some sort of free ride under the guise of making things more "equitable" meaning the better off carry them on their coattails.

Please. The generation that ran the US into the ground didnt build jack shit. They inherited everything from their parents and ruined it with their greed. Many old people are ashamed of what their children have done to the country.

 

[empty vessel]

So here we are today. We had a very severe recession. Jobs have been slow to recover out of this recession. The people who are carrying high student loans and unable to find their desired jobs are unfortunately just the victims of the natural fluctuations inherent our economic system. It's just your turn. If you were born a few years earlier you wouldn't be protesting. The best thing you can do is ride it out and wait, just like people have done since the early 1800s when the economy gets bad. You're not special or a victim. You've just got caught up in the confluence of a broader economic cycle.

You seem to be unaware of the myriad ways in which you are getting screwed. The share of national income going to the top 1% has been wildly accelerating at the same time that the top 1%'s tax burden has been falling like a rock. Of course, if the share of income going to the top 1% is accelerating, that must mean that somebody's share is decreasing. As it turns out, that "somebody" is practically everybody else.

The result is severe economic imbalance as economic power becomes more and more concentrated. The economic inequities perversely distort our democratic institutions as the rich use their ever-increasing political slush fund--money that our society used to collect in taxes and transform into beneficial services for the public--to occupy Congress and protect their economic interests. As a result of all this political slush fund money, Congress has grown less and less responsive to the needs of its actual citizens, having instead to operate in a political system that rewards expensive campaigns.

Labor bargaining power--what determines your salary--is at its lowest point since the New Deal. Money not spent on your wage has gone to compensate executives, who account for the majority of the top 1% of income earners. Financial executives in particular have made out like bandits, because credit was pushed to fill the gap of the income that we expected to receive but that was redirected to the top 1%. Productivity has increased, profits have increased, executive compensation has skyrocketed, but wages and salaries for the rest of us have stagnated. Much of the income that has gone to the top 1% over the last three decades has been redirected from going to you. Estimates are that every individual below the top 95% of income earners has lost thousands of dollars every year from this redirection of income away from the middle class and towards executives.

This only scratches the surface. It would require a book to explain how extensive the screwing is. The reality is that you are ignorant. Your prescription to suffer through is based on a failure to appreciate how you are being fucked over. There are worse things to be than ignorant, and the good news is that it isn't necessarily permanent. But that's up to you.

 

[Divvy]

I see comments in this thread that the banks requested the federal bailout. My understanding is that banks stopped lending after Lehman collapsed, and the fed forced all big banks to take TARP money with the hope that they would lend it out. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are forgetting about Bear Stearns and AIG, and TARP was hardly forced on them. There were more loopholes in there that benefited the banks than most of the public and probably the politicians knew.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

My view is basically that the government has no right to complain about protestors. If you don't want the job of making your constituents happy, don't hold office. If you're holding office, make your constituency happy.

 

[sh4mike]

You are forgetting about Bear Stearns and AIG, and TARP was hardly forced on them. There were more loopholes in there that benefited the banks than most of the public and probably the politicians knew.

I'm looking for evidence that the government bailout was requested by the banks. My understanding is that most banks didn't want/need the funds, but the fed ordered all banks to take TARP because if only the weak banks took funds, folks might make a run on those institutions. Any evidence you can provide to the contrary is appreciated.

 

[akira28]

Why do so many people wear that stupid v for vendetta mask?

it is pretty dumb isn't it? I could understand using it to troll the Scientologists, or being synonymous with the anon group. But maybe Anonymous could go anonymously to this thing instead. More likely its just some kids who thought others would do it and that it would be a good idea.

 

[kame-sennin]

Today at a press conference, President Obama had to answer the question, 'why has no one on Wall Street gone to jail?'. This is a question he hasn't had to deal with since the crash. It's a discussion our nation has not had. When people ask what these protesters are trying to accomplish, we can point to this moment and say that we are forcing our government to answer tough questions. We have begun a national debate on the injustice of our financial system. This is what democracy looks like.

 

[chaostrophy]

#OccupyHouston

Destroying people like that would be no loss. But still, it's better for the movement to remain non-violent.

 

[demon]

Today at a press conference, President Obama had to answer the question, 'why has no one on Wall Street gone to jail?'. This is a question he hasn't had to deal with since the crash. It's a discussion our nation has not had. When people ask what these protesters are trying to accomplish, we can point to this moment and say that we are forcing our government to answer tough questions. We have begun a national debate on the injustice of our financial system. This is what democracy looks like.

What did he say?

 

[sh4mike]

Today at a press conference, President Obama had to answer the question, 'why has no one on Wall Street gone to jail?'. This is a question he hasn't had to deal with since the crash. It's a discussion our nation has not had. When people ask what these protesters are trying to accomplish, we can point to this moment and say that we are forcing our government to answer tough questions. We have begun a national debate on the injustice of our financial system. This is what democracy looks like.

You have to break the law to go to jail.

 

[Trurl]

I hope that goldbugs and libertarians don't take over these protests.

 

[water_wendi]

You have to break the law to go to jail.

Imperiling the entire nation and its future is treason.

 

[HerbertFish]

Do people just not realize that we're in a recession and that jobs just aren't growing on trees?

Yes. I don't currently have a job.

 

[empty vessel]

You have to break the law to go to jail.

Many laws were undoubtedly broken by many people. You have to investigate to discover crimes, though.

I hope that goldbugs and libertarians don't take over these protests.

Me, too. I am confident they won't, though. Their presence so far has been minimal. Except for the strangest (most confused?) ones, these people's affinity is with the tea party.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Destroying people like that would be no loss. But still, it's better for the movement to remain non-violent.

"Destroying people", really?

 

[Keru_Shiri]

Yes. I don't currently have a job.

My sympathies.

But you can attest, then, that it is not easy to find employment? Does that not make the "work harder, hippies" chants a bit ridiculous? Can most of the detractors in this thread say for certainty that a majority of those supporting the Occupy movement are just looking for an easy ticket, and can this be backed up by any kind of real data?

I'm certain that at least a few of the people out their waving signs are looking for an easy way out after sorely misjudging the value of the degree. I do not believe there are enough of them out there to discredit this movement.

Either way, good luck with your job search. (I am not at all being sarcastic, by the way, I really do wish you luck.)

 

[sh4mike]

Imperiling the entire nation and its future is treason.

Who is the puppet master pulling the strings of this conspiracy? I have issues when folks assume all bank employees have a secret plot to screw the country.

My understanding is that a few credit risk modelers starting labeling assets as low risk without considering contagion influence. The predicted results blew up when liquidity vanished, and the housing bubble (and associated asset and debt bubbles) burst.

I get the impression that people feel it was all part of an elegant plot by 10-1000 super rich bankers who worked together to get rich and destroy the nation. I haven't seen any evidence that this occured. I also feel this scenario is unlikely given the number of checks and balances in large-scale organizations.

 

[water_wendi]

Who is the puppet master pulling the strings of this conspiracy? I have issues when folks assume all bank employees have a secret plot to screw the country.

My understanding is that a few credit risk modelers starting labeling assets as low risk without considering contagion influence. The predicted results blew up when liquidity vanished, and the housing bubble (and associated asset and debt bubbles) burst.

I get the impression that people feel it was all part of an elegant plot by 10-1000 super rich bankers who worked together to get rich and destroy the nation. I haven't seen any evidence that this occured. I also feel this scenario is unlikely given the number of checks and balances in large-scale organizations.

You are right. We should just ignore things, not check things out, and go through it all over again in the next year. Maybe when unemployment hits 40% there will be enough people desperate to do what needs to be done to fix things.

 

[Divvy]

I'm looking for evidence that the government bailout was requested by the banks. My understanding is that most banks didn't want/need the funds, but the fed ordered all banks to take TARP because if only the weak banks took funds, folks might make a run on those institutions. Any evidence you can provide to the contrary is appreciated.

You may be right that the banks did not ask for TARP. I can't find any information anymore either. I remember watching a documentary, but I can't find the source anymore.

Who is the puppet master pulling the strings of this conspiracy? I have issues when folks assume all bank employees have a secret plot to screw the country.

My understanding is that a few credit risk modelers starting labeling assets as low risk without considering contagion influence. The predicted results blew up when liquidity vanished, and the housing bubble (and associated asset and debt bubbles) burst.

I get the impression that people feel it was all part of an elegant plot by 10-1000 super rich bankers who worked together to get rich and destroy the nation. I haven't seen any evidence that this occured. I also feel this scenario is unlikely given the number of checks and balances in large-scale organizations.

Many of the investment bankers commited fraud by selling really shitty investments despite knowing how toxic they were and even betting against those investments. There have been many emails from many investors such as Angelo Mozilo to those they trust almost mocking how toxic these assets were. Insider trading was a major issue as well. Take a look at John Paulson who bought a large amount of CDSes right before the subprime mortgages started to collapse.

 

[Anerythristic]

#OccupyHouston

I want to rant a bit because this deeply insults me. I am sorry I can't be a millionaire.

I was married with two kids by the time I was 20. I am still putting them through private school and my wife and I raised good kids that I hope always do the right thing. I started at a publicly traded corporation answering phones, worked hard for eight years and received three official promotions and was middle management when I was let go due to those promotions. I have been out of work for 8 months.

I don't understand what this ASSHOLE is trying to say or what he means. It would take all my willpower to not beat the crap out of this fool if I saw him on the streets with that sign.

 

[sh4mike]

You are right. We should just ignore things, not check things out, and go through it all over again in the next year. Maybe when unemployment hits 40% there will be enough people desperate to do what needs to be done to fix things.

If "checking things out" was all that this movement is about, then I'd be more supportive. But your scope seems to be a bit broader.

 

[FlyinJ]

I want to rant a bit because this deeply insults me. I am sorry I can't be a millionaire.

I was married with two kids by the time I was 20. I am still putting them through private school and my wife and I raised good kids that I hope always do the right thing. I started at a publicly traded corporation answering phones, worked hard for eight years and received three official promotions and was middle management when I was let go due to those promotions. I have been out of work for 8 months.

I don't understand what this ASSHOLE is trying to say or what he means. It would take all my willpower to not beat the crap out of this fool if I saw him on the streets with that sign.

Not to mention the guy seriously looks like some kind of cyborg/douchebag hybrid.

Look at those eyes.

And who made that whacky lettered but perfectly printed sign? The whole thing is just weird.

 

[deadbeef]

You may be right that the banks did not ask for TARP. I can't find any information anymore either. I remember watching a documentary, but I can't find the source anymore.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meltdown/view/

Frontline - Inside the Meltdown

Bernanke and Paulson basically forced them all to take the bailout.

 

[water_wendi]

If "checking things out" was all that this movement is about, then I'd be more supportive. But your scope seems to be a bit broader.

These protests are far too timid, imo. The very fact that things werent investigated and everything went back to business as usual tells me we are beyond the point of using the law to bring about justice.

 

[sh4mike]

Many of the investment bankers commited fraud by selling really shitty investments despite knowing how toxic they were and even betting against those investments. There have been many emails from many investors such as Angelo Mozilo to those they trust almost mocking how toxic these assets were. Insider trading was a major issue as well. Take a look at John Paulson who bought a large amount of CDSes right before the subprime mortgages started to collapse.

I am familiar with everything you mentioned. And I believe all of these individuals and their firms were fined millions and/or billions of dollars.

Now if the follow-up question is whether Angelo Mozilo should have gone to jail, I'd actually be okay with that.

But it's the generalizations in this thread that irk me. It really is a few people making bad decisions. It reminds me of hating all Muslims because of the handful of extremists. When some people think "banker," they see suspenders and cigars. I see people who care about their families, have high levels of integrity, and would never institute unethical or illegal programs. There's always one branch manager who targets minorities, or one broker who does illegal trades, that makes the news. Bad apples.

Your first sentence begins with "many" brokers -- that's the issue here. Investigate journalists have been all over this for years. Whistleblowers would be adored by the public. But only a handful of prosecutions.

 

[FlyinJ]

If "checking things out" was all that this movement is about, then I'd be more supportive. But your scope seems to be a bit broader.

I thought they already did "check things out" for a little while. Then the banks just settled monetarily with the government (edit: for an undisclosed amount, if I recall correctly), with no jail time given to individuals for their offenses.

You don't go to jail if you have money in this country. And that really pisses people off.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Today at a press conference, President Obama had to answer the question, 'why has no one on Wall Street gone to jail?'. This is a question he hasn't had to deal with since the crash. It's a discussion our nation has not had. When people ask what these protesters are trying to accomplish, we can point to this moment and say that we are forcing our government to answer tough questions. We have begun a national debate on the injustice of our financial system. This is what democracy looks like.

How does that accomplish anything? It's great someone finally asked the quesiton, but nothing these people are protesting will be addressed. The reason the Tea Party is so effective is because they're advocating a pro business/corporate agenda. A progressive agenda isn't going to have any impact because it doesn't benefit anyone at the top.

The protests are largely a waste of time. Nobody (important) cares. I certainly agree the financial sector has gotten away with robbery, but outside of Elizabeth Warren I don't see many candidates who actually want to do something about it. And even she won't be particularly successful in the senate considering most of her colleagues will be corporate stooges, as is the president (who, admittedly, I will vote for again...the alternatives are worse).

 

[Deku]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meltdown/view/

Frontline - Inside the Meltdown

Bernanke and Paulson basically forced them all to take the bailout.

Lesson learned from the depression. Need to pump in liquidity

 

[empty vessel]

Who is the puppet master pulling the strings of this conspiracy? I have issues when folks assume all bank employees have a secret plot to screw the country.

All bank employees? Like anybody is suggesting that bank tellers are in on some scheme to screw people? It is not that there exists a "secret plot to screw the country." It's that there exists the legitimization of the unbridled pursuit of self-interest. Capitalists, of course, should be familiar with the concept of pursuing one's economic self-interest, so it's odd to see a defender call this a "conspiracy." The problem is that this pursuit has become unbounded and unmoored from all social responsibility.

The result is an executive business class that has politically organized to eliminate all regulation and oversight of what they do and has taken that opportunity to use the corporations they are supposed to be administering in trust for investors as vessels for their personal enrichment. In the process, they have ruthlessly stifled wages, salaries, and benefits of employees and in many instances effectively stolen from the investors of the companies they run (AIG is an example of this). Corporate executives have resisted all attempts to provide checks on their power as by increasing the independence of boards of directors and empowering investors to act when they have been lied to. Agencies intended to protect shareholders like the SEC have been severely handicapped to the point of impotence by politicians funded by business interests. There is no conspiracy here. It's business. And it's time to put it back in check because left unbridled it is turning our civil society to utter shit.

My understanding is that a few credit risk modelers starting labeling assets as low risk without considering contagion influence. The predicted results blew up when liquidity vanished, and the housing bubble (and associated asset and debt bubbles) burst.

Your impression is ridiculously naive. Credit ratings agencies were being paid by the firms whose products they were rating. Is it really that difficult to connect the dots? If it is, see if this helps.

 

[Sqrt_minus_one]

You may be right that the banks did not ask for TARP. I can't find any information anymore either. I remember watching a documentary, but I can't find the source anymore.

When you think about it no banker in his right mind would come out and request a bail out. You might as well set fire to your cash reserves, the US government set up TARP after discussions with numerous banks I am sure, it was not done on a whim.

 

[RSTEIN]

You seem to be unaware of the myriad ways in which you are getting screwed. The share of national income going to the top 1% has been wildly accelerating at the same time that the top 1%'s tax burden has been falling like a rock. There are worse things to be than ignorant, and the good news is that it isn't necessarily permanent. But that's up to you.

I'm not getting screwed. I'm in the top 1%.

 

[Loki]

Empty vessel is my hero. Fantastic posts, as usual in these sorts of topics. A true voice for economic and social justice.

 

[Sqrt_minus_one]

All bank employees? Like anybody is suggesting that bank tellers are in on some scheme to screw people? It is not that there exists a "secret plot to screw the country." It's that there exists the legitimization of the unbridled pursuit of self-interest. Capitalists, of course, should be familiar with the concept of pursuing one's economic self-interest, so it's odd to see a defender call this a "conspiracy." The problem is that this pursuit has become unbounded and unmoored from all social responsibility.

Spot on old chap, spot on.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I'm not getting screwed. I'm in the top 1%.

I not getting screwed one bit either and I'm part of the 99%!

 

[Saren is Bad]

Empty vessel is my hero. Fantastic posts, as usual in these sorts of topics. A true voice for economic and social justice.

Lol that dude sucks

So that Philly protest was occurring as I ran outside to grab a bite to eat. Man, I wish I could protest with them, but, you know, I have a job.

Cold as motherfucking ice, man

 

[Alucrid]

So that Philly protest was occurring as I ran outside to grab a bite to eat. Man, I wish I could protest with them, but, you know, I have a job.

 

[Door2Dawn]

Today at a press conference, President Obama had to answer the question, 'why has no one on Wall Street gone to jail?'. This is a question he hasn't had to deal with since the crash. It's a discussion our nation has not had. When people ask what these protesters are trying to accomplish, we can point to this moment and say that we are forcing our government to answer tough questions. We have begun a national debate on the injustice of our financial system. This is what democracy looks like.

:/

Meh.

Honestly, at the end of the day this will eventually die out and everyone will forget about it in a few weeks.

So that Philly protest was occurring as I ran outside to grab a bite to eat. Man, I wish I could protest with them, but, you know, I have a job.

Yeah because none of them couldn't possibly have a job. Nope.

I mean, whats the point in posting petty bullshit like this? Do us a favor and keep them to yourself. No one gives a shit.

 

[DarkKyo]

I'm not getting screwed. I'm in the top 1%.

 

[water_wendi]

So that Philly protest was occurring as I ran outside to grab a bite to eat. Man, I wish I could protest with them, but, you know, I have a job.

Enjoy it while you can.

 

[stufte]

Want to point out on here that this photo:

is being spread around facebook and elsewhere. it is fake. and doesn't do anything to help the cause.

original google screen flipped:

not even near wall street:

http://g.co/maps/97n8d

 

[blahness]

Want to point out on here that this photo:

is being spread around facebook and elsewhere. it is fake. and doesn't do anything to help the cause.

original google screen flipped:

not even near wall street:

http://g.co/maps/97n8d

Wow you finally got your account activated? Good find btw

 

[nateeasy]

Want to point out on here that this photo:

is being spread around facebook and elsewhere. it is fake. and doesn't do anything to help the cause.

original google screen flipped:

not even near wall street:

http://g.co/maps/97n8d

Wow. Classic

 

[nateeasy]

More #OccupyHouston

Ok . I LOLD

 

[Kaladin]

I've seen more people at a concert than in the real photo.

 

[JGS]

I don't know nearly enough about this movement (The people they interviewed in Lexington were not to quick on the reasons.)

These photos are not helping their cause.

 

[Zero Hero]

Lol that dude sucks

Truth hurts.

My fox news watching father in law was just complaining about these 'communists' today. This guy hates Goldman Sachs yet just said wall street are the job creators. I asked him if he thinks that protesting corporate greed is communist..... no answer. I also pointed out that since it isn't an anti-Obama protest, it must be left wing thuggery. No answer.

It's infuriating

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Want to point out on here that this photo:

is being spread around facebook and elsewhere. it is fake. and doesn't do anything to help the cause.

original google screen flipped:

not even near wall street:

http://g.co/maps/97n8d