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Occupy Wall St - Occupy Everywhere, Occupy Together!

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E

Enron

Banned
cooljeanius said:
Well I suppose one of the things discussed at last night's meeting was tabling deciding on today's action until today's meeting at noon, which I didn't go to. So maybe that's when they decided on it.
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Well, it could very well have just been a handful of more assertive Occupy DCers deciding to go off on their own and pick up others along the way. That's the problem with all of this - no clear leadership, dozens of groups all with their own main agendas, no clear direction + anger + many people + the relative anonymity that a crowd provides, Im just waiting for someting really bad to happen.
 
C

cooljeanius

Member
Enron said:
Well, it could very well have just been a handful of more assertive Occupy DCers deciding to go off on their own and pick up others along the way. That's the problem with all of this - no clear leadership, dozens of groups all with their own main agendas, no clear direction + anger + many people + the relative anonymity that a crowd provides, Im just waiting for someting really bad to happen.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's also true... After the IMF march yesterday, a bunch of marchers decided to go off to occupy the Fed instead of attending the GA with the rest of us, so it could've been a similar situation.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
x Power Pad Death Stomp x said:
Lol. Talking Points Memo. Clearly a non partisan website. The NY Times poll it quotes shows Tea Party Birthers at 44%, while just Republicans are at 45%. Only 1 point, but, against your assumption.

To get back to the Occuposse, I don't have a poll taken asking Occupiers if they are violent or not. I just find it hilarious that people in this thread jump down peoples throats for making assumptions about the Occupiers in any way when two clicks away are threads filled with people saying some pretty vile and mean shit to and about conservatives/republicans. There's a reason I don't usually bother with political threads on the boards.
Click to expand...

Its a CBS poll, I believe.

And that is honestly surprising to me. So I stand corrected about my assumption, even though this is just one poll. My point in providing the poll was to show the difference in quantity. A pretty decent percentage of GOPers think or thought Obama wasn't American, VS. 150-200 protestors in DC using aggression. I don't think that is comparable.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
x Power Pad Death Stomp x said:
HAHAHAHAHAH OH WOW.
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This is what I have heard, not sure what is so ridiculously funny about this error. Ron Paul certainly stands for limited government... if he has no association with the tea party, at the very least it shows I am consistent with my comment that limited government is sound and my opposition with the tea party deals with obama birth certificate and hypocrisy of limited government (drug war, wars, etc)

I feel like I have repeated myself 20 times just now. So unless there is something else to be discussed here, I think we should stop this.
 
X

x Power Pad Death Stomp x

Member
Karma Kramer said:
Its a CBS poll, I believe.

And that is honestly surprising to me. So I stand corrected about my assumption, even though this is just one poll. My point in providing the poll was to show the difference in quantity. A pretty decent percentage of GOPers think or thought Obama wasn't American, VS. 150-200 protestors in DC using aggression. I don't think that is comparable.
Click to expand...

> implying

This poll was conducted among a random sample of 1,224adults nationwide, interviewed by telephone April 15-20,
2011. The error due to sampling for results based on the entire sample could be plus or minus three percentage
points. The error for subgroups is higher. An oversample of Republicans was also conducted for this poll, for a total
of 543 interviews among this group. The results were then weighted in proportion to the average party distributions in
previous 2011 CBS News and CBS News/New York Times Polls and in the random sample in this poll. The margin
of error for Republicans is plus or minus four percentage points.
Click to expand...

543 republicans. 45%. So around 300 people.

So if 300 people = all republicans and tea party members, 200 people = all occupiers.

Karma Kramer said:
I feel like I have repeated myself 20 times just now. So unless there is something else to be discussed here, I think we should stop this.
Click to expand...

Boooo. This is literally the most fun I've had in a political discussion on GAF. We were going back and forth in a respectful way and zinging each other with links and quotes. If you're out, fist bump liberal hippie bro.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
x Power Pad Death Stomp x said:
> implying



543 republicans. 45%. So around 300 people.

So if 300 people = all republicans and tea party members, 200 people = all occupiers.
Click to expand...

Do you want me to find more polls? lol this is getting ridiculous
 
C

ColonelColon

Member
x Power Pad Death Stomp x said:
can you summarize it, cause I don't want to watch 18 minutes of that guy talking.
Click to expand...

He says that the American economy will never recover, "the system is dead", constantly reiterates that America is going to collapse, and seems to believe that female suffrage and social welfare programs were the beginning of the end.
 
C

cooljeanius

Member
ColonelColon said:
He says that the American economy will never recover, "the system is dead", constantly reiterates that America is going to collapse, and seems to believe that female suffrage and social welfare programs were the beginning of the end.
Click to expand...
And unfortunately there's nothing the movement as a whole can do to disown him...
 
S

Slavik81

Member
x Power Pad Death Stomp x said:
can you summarize it, cause I don't want to watch 18 minutes of that guy talking.
Click to expand...
The second argues that taxes are actually enslavement and that the government uses doublespeak to hide this fact. Government debt is therefore the United States government enslaving its citizens to work for treasury bond holders.

The terms 'trade deficit', 'falling dollar, 'national debt', 'unfunded liabilities' are big, vague and confusing terms designed by politicians to disguise their actual meanings from the public. And Americans are like plantation slaves because the government issues debt.

He's also sitting at 3039 upvotes and 154 downvotes with nearly half a million views. It seems people agree with him.
 
O

oatmeal

Banned
Occupy Las Vegas happened on Thursday night, crowding up the Las Vegas strip... Causing me to be late for a job.

Irony.
 
M

Myansie

Member
The reason I believe in Occupy Wall St is because Wall St has become overly de-regulated and is essentially free from all judicial enquiry.

This isn't about left and right. It's about right and wrong. Wall St's crimes are as morally unambiguous as putting a gun to someones head and pulling the trigger.

This is an incredibly shocking article by Matt Taibbi. The SEC, Securities and Exchange Commision, the American Judicial body for financial crime has for the past 17 years been shredding all of their Matters of Inquiry. Essentially all investigations have been shredded, they don't even have Bernie Madhoff's.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/is-the-sec-covering-up-wall-street-crimes-20110817

If your blood isn't boiling yet check out this picture of Wall St suits toasting the passing protests with champagne...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pXrwqDXSBk
 
S

Slavik81

Member
Myansie said:
The reason I believe in Occupy Wall St is because Wall St has become overly de-regulated and is essentially free from all judicial enquiry.

This isn't about left and right. It's about right and wrong. Wall St's crimes are as morally unambiguous as putting a gun to someones head and pulling the trigger.

This is an incredibly shocking article by Matt Taibbi. The SEC, Securities and Exchange Commision, the American Judicial body for financial crime has for the past 17 years been shredding all of their Matters of Inquiry. Essentially all investigations have been shredded, they don't even have Bernie Madhoff's.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...rimes-20110817
Click to expand...
That article suggests that it's only the failed preliminary investigations that are shredded. Bernie Madhoff's prosecution was successful, so why wouldn't they have it?

That does sound odd, though. I'd like to see more about this in the future.

Myansie said:
If your blood isn't boiling yet check out this picture of Wall St suits toasting the passing protests with champagne...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pXrwqDXSBk
Click to expand...
A bunch of random people drinking on the balcony of a restaurant...

Sorry, but why should I be mad?
 
M

Myansie

Member
Slavik81 said:
That article suggests that it's only the failed preliminary investigations that are shredded. Bernie Madhoff's prosecution was successful, so why wouldn't they have it?

That does sound odd, though. I'd like to see more about this in the future.
Click to expand...

They shredded over 18,000 preliminary cases illegally. When you are attempting to bring these companies to justice the only way to move forward from a preliminary investigation is to prove a pattern. That is impossible to do when you have no preceeding investigations to cross reference. They are all gone. We have nothing since 1993.
 
S

Slavik81

Member
Myansie said:
They shredded over 18,000 preliminary cases illegally. When you are attempting to bring these companies to justice the only way to move forward from a preliminary investigation is to prove a pattern. That is impossible to do when you have no preceeding investigations to cross reference. They are all gone. We have nothing since 1993.
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I agree that's a serious allegation. But why wouldn't they have Madhoff's stuff? I would have thought he'd have gotten a full case.
 
M

Myansie

Member
Slavik81 said:
I agree that's a serious allegation. But why wouldn't they have Madhoff's stuff? I would have thought he'd have gotten a full case.
Click to expand...

Because it wasn't the first time he was investigated. Either way he's in jail, so it's not like he's the motivation behind the protests. These are the important ones Taibbi brings up...

PARTY MUI # OPENED/CLOSED ISSUE
Goldman Sachs MLA-01909 6/99 - 4/00 Market Manipulation
Deutsche Bank MHO-09356 11/01 - 7/02 Insider Trading
Deutsche Bank MHO-09432 2/02 - 8/02 Market Manipulation
Lehman Brothers MNY-07013 3/02 - 7/02 Financial Fraud
Goldman Sachs MNY-08198 11/09 - 12/09 Insider Trading

One MUI – case MNY-08145 – involved allegations of insider trading at AIG on September 15th, 2008, right in the middle of the insurance giant's collapse. In that case, an AIG employee named Jacqueline Millan reported irregularities in the trading of AIG stock to her superiors, only to find herself fired.
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All those cases, those big red marks are essentially all the SEC has left.

He also talks about the National Archives and Records Administration looking into it a lot more closely. This could be the fuel needed to go in and clean up the SEC. If we can get the judicial system working again, untangle the web of people moving between the banks and powerful government positions, then we've taken a major step towards long term recovery and fixing the holes in the system.
 
J

Jak140

Member
x Power Pad Death Stomp x said:
543 republicans. 45%. So around 300 people.

So if 300 people = all republicans and tea party members, 200 people = all occupiers.
Click to expand...

I haven't really followed what you guys were arguing about before this, but you seem to be completely disregarding the concept of a random sample here. For a more apt comparison, you would have to look at what percentage of all the occupiers would support invading the Smithsonian.
If I had to take a guess as to what it was about, btw, maybe it was due to the Koch brothers funded exhibit that downplays man-made climate change? Not saying I agree with their actions, but to a rather small degree I can see the logic of it.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Jak140 said:
I haven't really followed what you guys were arguing about before this, but you seem to be completely disregarding the concept of a random sample here. For a more apt comparison, you would have to look at what percentage of all the occupiers would support invading the Smithsonian.
If I had to take a guess as to what it was about, btw, maybe it was due to the Koch brothers funded exhibit that downplays man-made climate change? Not saying I agree with their actions, but to a rather small degree I can see the logic of it.
Click to expand...



Someone posted a link last page to a story saying the Smithsonian thing was becasue of their UAV exhibit. There's no logic to trying to demonstrate a UAV exhibit at the Smithsonian. Does anyone actually think the attacks performed by UAV's would not have just been performed by more conventional means if UAV's did not exist?
 
J

Jak140

Member
Slavik81 said:
I agree that's a serious allegation. But why wouldn't they have Madhoff's stuff? I would have thought he'd have gotten a full case.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that Madoff mostly ripped off wealthy people. The government tends to be more responsive to large scale injustice when the victims have at least six zeros before the decimal in their bank accounts.
 
J

Jak140

Member
DrForester said:
Someone posted a link last page to a story saying the Smithsonian thing was becasue of their UAV exhibit. There's no logic to trying to demonstrate a UAV exhibit at the Smithsonian. Does anyone actually think the attacks performed by UAV's would not have just been performed by more conventional means if UAV's did not exist?
Click to expand...
Okay that seems absurd. My second guess would be that it was mob mentality that led to so many people going along with it.
 
W

Wazzim

Banned
ColonelColon said:
He says that the American economy will never recover, "the system is dead", constantly reiterates that America is going to collapse, and seems to believe that female suffrage and social welfare programs were the beginning of the end.
Click to expand...
Which is true, everything the US does is use loans to create fake economic growth. Everything is topped out, limitless economic growth potential is a lie.
 
G

Gaborn

Member
Snaku said:
Aren't they?
Click to expand...

Nope. Some are, some aren't.

Wazzim said:
That's because their leadership is clearly racist, that isn't the case with OWS.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is universally or even mostly true. I think you are reacting to where the majority of coverage is focused rather than getting a representative perspective.

Karma Kramer - I was NOT saying the OWS people were all racist or even mostly racist. I assume in any large gathering of people you're going to find some racists.
 
X

x Power Pad Death Stomp x

Member
Gaborn said:
But of course if that happened at a tea party rally "Clearly they're all racists!"
Click to expand...

I....agree.....with....Gaborn on something.....

I need to sit down and take inventory of my life. =P

Wazzim said:
That's because their leadership is clearly racist, that isn't the case with OWS.
Click to expand...

Lol. Who's the racist leadership, Robert Byrd?

If we're just going to throw shit out there, Occupy is affiliated with Anonymous, who are from a website notorious for having CP on it. Therefore, all Occupiers are into CP.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
Gaborn said:
Karma Kramer - I was NOT saying the OWS people were all racist or even mostly racist. I assume in any large gathering of people you're going to find some racists.
Click to expand...

You were eluding to hypocrisy at Timedogs "Not hard to find mentally ill people on the streets, especially in new york."

Seemed like the appropriate response would be agreement with this assessment. Funny video, but don't cry foul on something because the left or occupiers would call tea party people racists based on videos or pictures.

As me and few others discussed before though, I think the whole questioning the birthplace of our black muslim named president, is at least coated with a thin layer of racism.
 
W

Wazzim

Banned
x Power Pad Death Stomp x said:
Lol. Who's the racist leadership, Robert Byrd?

If we're just going to throw shit out there, Occupy is affiliated with Anonymous, who are from a website notorious for having CP on it. Therefore, all Occupiers are into CP.
Click to expand...
Mark Williams.


And what does CP mean?
 
G

Gaborn

Member
Karma Kramer said:
You were eluding to hypocrisy at Timedogs "Not hard to find mentally ill people on the streets, especially in new york."

Seemed like the appropriate response would be agreement with this assessment. Funny video, but don't cry foul on something because the left or occupiers would call tea party people racists based on videos or pictures.

As me and few others discussed before though, I think the whole questioning the birthplace of our black muslim named president, is at least coated with a thin layer of racism.
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree that there is a subset of racism in the tea party, the whole "birther" movement is in part predicated on it. However I don't think that can be said to represent them as a whole.

Also, again I was NOT crying foul because I wanted people to generalize OWS protesters the way they have the tea party, I was crying foul because they DO take the opportunity to generalize tea party protesters based on a fraction of idiots.
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Gaborn said:
But of course if that happened at a tea party rally "Clearly they're all racists!"
Click to expand...

There is a lot of racism in America, especially in certain areas. Those types of people tend to align and vote a certain way.

But hey, since no one admits to being racist and so it's not really something you can put a metric on, you can feel free to just act like it's not there, and not blatantly obvious. Or that one guy spouting random incoherent nonsense on the streets of new york-where he was doing the same thing before the protests even began-is the equivalent. You can feel free to do and think exactly whatever you want, but that does not make your analogy coherent.

Moreover, I cannot recall anyone ever on this forum saying that all tea partiers are racist. Feel free to point that out though.
 
X

x Power Pad Death Stomp x

Member
Wazzim said:
Mark Williams.


And what does CP mean?
Click to expand...


One the first things that pops up on Google is an article about "The National Tea Party Federation" disowning the guy, and rightfully so.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/07/18/2010-07-18_tea_party_express_leader_mark_williams_expelled_over_colored_people_letter.html

But, much like Occupy, there is no real central Tea Party leadership.

Also, CP = Child Pornography.

I have to go to work and then watch football, so we can argue more later, but the only point I'm trying to make is that people will eviscerate the entire "Tea Party" on the basis of things members of the party do. When the same things come up about Occupy, it's brushed off as just one person and not the movement.

There's always going to be wackos in any large gathering of people. The sad thing is despite being miles apart on some things, the two groups could find common ground. The "they" in charge (lol) would then really have something to be afraid of so "they're" happy when I call you a dirty hippie and you call me a racist and we don't work together.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
Gaborn said:
I absolutely agree that there is a subset of racism in the tea party, the whole "birther" movement is in part predicated on it. However I don't think that can be said to represent them as a whole.

Also, again I was NOT crying foul because I wanted people to generalize OWS protesters the way they have the tea party, I was crying foul because they DO take the opportunity to generalize tea party protesters based on a fraction of idiots.
Click to expand...

Never said it represented a whole, we are in agreement.

I still find your reasoning a little illogical. Generalizing an entire group of people with different backgrounds, is obviously moronic. Why call foul when it should be common sense not to generalize and stereotype people, unless you were categorizing/generalizing supporters of OWS as the kind of people who would fall under that kind of hypocrisy?
 
G

Gaborn

Member
Karma Kramer said:
Never said it represented a whole, we are in agreement.

I still find your reasoning a little illogical. Generalizing an entire group of people with different backgrounds, some of whom might even be black, is obviously moronic. Why call foul when it should be common sense not to generalize and stereotype people, unless you were categorizing/generalizing supporters of OWS as the kind of people who would fall under that kind of hypocrisy?
Click to expand...

Because while it should be common sense it doesn't stop some people from doing it to the tea party! which was solely my point. You're reading too much into what I said.
 
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