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[More Fun To Compute]

Yooo, educate me Occupy Wallstreeters. I'm seeing pictures of being having signs like "End the Rich" and all this. Does this movement seriously want to make it where there are no rich people? Or was that just a more extreme sign. Trying to get an accurate picture of what this movement is exactly advocating.

More and more wealth is concentrated in the top 0.1% of the population over time. In reality they already own most of the wealth. Whenever there are problems they are exempt from paying despite often being the root cause of the problems. Does that sound right to you?

 

[Saren is Bad]

More and more wealth is concentrated in the top 0.1% of the population over time. In reality they already own most of the wealth. Whenever there are problems they are exempt from paying despite often being the root cause of the problems. Does that sound right to you?

I'm just curious about the top .1% stat. Are we talking millionaires, billionaires or 250K+? Also, as for "ending the rich," what does that exactly mean?

 

[Drkirby]

Great article. Quoting again for a new page.

Yeah. I posted that on the first page. It is obvious at this point that the protestors were led onto the bridge. Disgusting.

I am still going to wait for more information to come out, since both sides are calming different things.

Also, the article has since been revised again (You know, since this is the real world, and all information is available at the instant something happens), and has stated it was only the protesters who went onto the roadway part that were arrested, not the ones on the Pedestrian part.

And you know what, the article presents both sides! The New York times is clearly being bought off!

Sunday | In a tense showdown above the East River, the police arrested more than 700 demonstrators from the Occupy Wall Street protests who took to the roadway as they tried to cross the Brooklyn Bridge on Saturday afternoon.

The police said it was the marchers’ choice that led to the enforcement action.

“Protesters who used the Brooklyn Bridge walkway were not arrested,” Paul J. Browne, the chief spokesman for the New York Police Department, said. “Those who took over the Brooklyn-bound roadway, and impeded vehicle traffic, were arrested.”

But many protesters said they believed the police had tricked them, allowing them onto the bridge, and even escorting them partway across, only to trap them in orange netting after hundreds had entered.

“The cops watched and did nothing, indeed, seemed to guide us onto the roadway,” said Jesse A. Myerson, a media coordinator for Occupy Wall Street who marched but was not arrested....


None of the protesters interviewed knew if the bridge march was planned or a spontaneous decision by the crowd. But all insisted that the police had made no mention that the roadway was off limits. Ms. Day and several others said that police officers had walked beside the crowd until the group reached about midway, then without warning began to corral the protesters behind orange nets.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ng-protesters-on-brooklyn-bridge/?ref=albaker

How dare the New York Times report both sides interpretation of the story.

Also, for the gif image, the 20 minute part is wrong, and it has irked me that no one has noticed or cared to point it out. The original article was published at 6:12 PM, the updated article was published at 7:10 PM. The 20 minutes is the time between visits, but the articles both have a thing next to them saying how long ago they were published.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I'm just curious about the top .1% stat. Are we talking millionaires, billionaires or 250K+? Also, as for "ending the rich," what does that exactly mean?

I can't tell you what that person was thinking with that slogan, maybe he was talking about guillotines, who can say. Anyone honest who thinks too much about this subject and understands it is bound to get angry at some point.

Top 0.1% are on much more than a million dollars in income annually. Millionaires are scrubs. Wall street fund manager is the stereotypical 0.1% job, or at least the people who use those fund managers are 0.1%.

 

[NullPointer]

https://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

That looks like a fine start.

Stay on target.

 

[cooljeanius]

Some pictures from McPherson Square:

 

[pj]

Pretty low energy protest.

Some cynical pics I took:

Young child ponders the message of the sign behind him

A brave protestor resists the urge to vomit as he chokes down the disgusting Hydrox cookies being passed off as snacks

I wore the same outfit. Awkward

Subway station closed. Did the banks buy the MTA too?

You're lucky I didn't take this picture 10 seconds earlier

A typical wall st. fat cat

Hippies too lazy to hold their own signs

Take a stance... no not like that

Why aren't we being taken seriously?

Drum circle in mid-jam

Alright, we get it, you can make signs with better spelling than tea partiers

What's a protest without an arts and crafts area?

Celebrity sighting, THE BURT REYNOLDS!!


Less cynical pics:

Bunch of cop cars parked at 1 Liberty Plaza

Army dudes

Cop stops teacher to argue about second amendment. Also eyeballs me real hard

Crowd shot


This one about sums up the experience for me:

 

[DEO3]

How dare the New York Times report both sides interpretation of the story.

Because the truth is always in the middle?

 

[ronito]

Well we finally have a list of demands.
Yay!

And it quotes a Noam Chomsky film.
LOL!

The demands themselves were pretty good, and supportable. But including "it will blow your mind!" and all that is just another Veggie Pizza thing. They're not helping their cause.

 

[beelzebozo]

can we add, "no charge for extra sweet 'n' sour with chicken nuggets" to the list of demands?

and 67 copies of moby dick?

 

[Slavik81]

no more working for the government and then working for the companies that you're supposed to watchdog

Regulatory capture is a serious problem, however, this is, unfortunately, an unrealistic solution. To be an effective regulator you need very similar skills and knowledge as people in the industry. Unsurprisingly, most experts on matters that relate to that industry work for it, or have worked for it in some way shape or form.

What is instead needed is a culture of transparency that takes seriously any appearance of impropriety. Further, a watchful public needs to communicate their complaints when there's clear examples of wrongdoing. And it needs to go beyond just the sort of anger you see for an unpopular decision; a corrupt decision needs protests like this.

Reading through just the Wikipedia list of instances of regulatory capture, I'm seriously upset that so many instances were let by without any noticeable public complaint.

 

[pj]

And here's a video I shot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzzwphUlXeo

I lost interest pretty quick because he wasn't making a lick of sense

 

[cooljeanius]

Made a quick Flipnote:

 

[Enosh]

You have a right to a chance for health care, education and employment, you sure as hell don't have a right to get health care, "free" college education and employment.

the state should provide free health care and education to all law abiding citizens
imo of course

 

[CHEEZMO™]

the state should provide free health care and education to all law abiding citizens
imo of course

 

[magicstop]

Just wanted to drop in, as I haven't been on for most of the day. I just got back from Occupy Durham, and will be heading out for Occupy Raleigh in about 5 minutes. I took pictures and got audio for the whole event, so I'll be uploading some media later tonight or tomorrow. About to go to Occupy Raleigh, where I'll take more pics and audio.
Cheers for those of you sharing! I'm going to be updating the OP with a media section, so if you've got albums, etc., online, make sure you post them so they'll get linked.

 

[Slavik81]

the state should provide free health care and education to all law abiding citizens
imo of course

How much healthcare and how much education? Currently, K12 education is free, while college education is not (though it is subsidised). Healthcare is complicated, but is at least highly subsidized for various qualifying groups. That said, increasing public spending on post-secondary education and simplifying government-sponsored healthcare programmes would be nice, I agree.

Healthcare is the more difficult issue, I think. First you need to throw out the politicians who suggest that government involvement in healthcare provision will result in death panels. For their support of healthcare reform, the Democrats lost the House. Fundamentally, your problem is that the public doesn't agree with you and keeps electing people who oppose the reforms you want. Lobbying the government through protest won't fix that, as it conflicts with their democratic mandate.

So, when the 2012 election comes around, give them a new mandate. Campaign. Vote.

 

[kame-sennin]

Amazing. Thanks for the pics!

 

[kame-sennin]

How much healthcare and how much education? Currently, K12 education is free, while college education is not (though it is subsidised). Healthcare is complicated, but is at least highly subsidized for various qualifying groups. That said, increasing public spending on post-secondary education and simplifying government-sponsored healthcare programmes would be nice, I agree.

Healthcare is the more difficult issue, I think. First you need to throw out the politicians who suggest that government involvement in healthcare provision will result in death panels. For their support of healthcare reform, the Democrats lost the House. Fundamentally, your problem is that the public doesn't agree with you and keeps electing people who oppose the reforms you want. Lobbying the government through protest won't fix that, as it conflicts with their democratic mandate.

So, when the 2012 election comes around, give them a new mandate. Campaign. Vote.

Actually, the majority of the American people support universal health care. The democrats who got thrown out were blue dogs in highly contested areas. If the democrats abandoned their insurance company doners and embraced "medicare for all", the American people would support them.

 

[Kerub]

Yes. Free health care and education would of course lead to a classless society.

You appear to be very educated.

 

[cooljeanius]

Yes. Free health care and education would of course lead to a classless society.

You appear to be very educated.

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

 

[Kerub]

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

You never know.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Cop stops teacher to argue about second amendment. Also eyeballs me real hard

he's huge. how can he stop crime? aren't there standards to be a cop anymore?

 

[Slavik81]

Amazing. Thanks for the pics!

Abolish the IRS? ...why?

Actually, the majority of the American people support universal health care. The democrats who got thrown out were blue dogs in highly contested areas. If the democrats abandoned their insurance company doners and embraced "medicare for all", the American people would support them.

I realize the people thrown out were in highly contested areas (they always will be), but I simply don't believe you on the rest.

Support for a public option simply was not there. And support for more drastic measures like a government monopoly on healthcare provision, as exists in Canada, is not widespread. Could you imagine what the response would be if the government announced it was nationalizing large swaths of private businesses?

 

[CHEEZMO™]

You never know.

I was.

 

[MC Safety]

These are precisely the types of posts that can not be taken seriously by reasonable people. The above is not a troll post in the slightest, he is stating his opinions in a polite and clear fashion. But it is the height of absurdity to criticize a political movement for not having goals, and then, when said goals are produced, criticize an ambitious and democratic movement for having goals that are too ambitious and subject to a democratic process.

Reasonable people would work toward a series of carefully thought-out, obtainable goals, not a laundry list of demands put up by the throng. And, of course, reasonable folk would also be inclined toward a less dismissive attitude. But there you go, my good sir.

 

[pj]

he's huge. how can he stop crime? aren't there standards to be a cop anymore?

According to his uniform, he's in the "disorder control unit." It's probably in his job description to argue with old ladies. He's not chasing down purse snatchers.

 

[AstroLad]

To me its obvious the cops trapped the protestors on the bridge. Why would they shut down the bridge to arrest 700 people for 2 hours when the more practical approach would be to let them exit the bridge to allow flow of traffic again

Something also to note: NYPD received a $4.6 million donation from JP Morgan Chase

Won't know the full story until Al Baker's dad chimes in.

 

[Vicetrailia]

he's huge. how can he stop crime? aren't there standards to be a cop anymore?

You don't know him so who are you to judge? Seriously.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

You don't know him so who are you to judge? Seriously.

You're fat aren't you?

 

[kame-sennin]

Support for a public option simply was not there. And support for more drastic measures like a government monopoly on healthcare provision, as exists in Canada, is not widespread.

The perception that the American people are not in favor of "nationalized health care" is the result of the Tea Party - a minority of the voting populous - and the massive amount of coverage their positions received.

Majority Would Pay Higher Taxes For Universal Health Care

Not only do Americans support universal coverage, they'd pay higher taxes to get it - anathema to the Tea Part platform.

Could you imagine what the response would be if the government announced it was nationalizing large swaths of private businesses?

I imagine it would be negative. Fortunately, expanding medicare to cover all Americans would not require the nationalization of a single private business. Medicare for all means that the government would be required to provide health insurance for all Americans. It does not mean that existing health insurance companies could not continue to sell additional coverage to Americans who can afford it.

 

[dinazimmerman]

https://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

Not a bad start. I have nothing against conducting an objective investigation -- not a witch hunt! -- of key Wall Street figures suspected of breaking the law; limiting the influence of lobbyists; increasing the top marginal tax rate (a harmless measure that really doesn't really solve anything either but at the very least appeases the masses liberals); eliminating tax loopholes; and improving financial regulation. Three things though:

With respect to banking regulation, I don't think it's a good idea for protestors to be stipulating specifically what needs to be done, like bringing back Glass-Steagall. Finding out what sort of banking regulation is optimal is a task best left to the experts. It's not really clear that Glass-Steagall is what we need. Canada, for example, has no Glass-Steagall restrictions:

Indeed, if our only criterion were safety, we do not have to look very far to find a banking system that "works" better. The Canadian system of private note issue was wildly successful relative to either the Free Banking or the National Banking system in the United States. Deposit insurance did not come into force until 1967, yet Canada has never experienced a banking panic episode, and bank failures are very rare events (since 1920: one in 1923, a couple of small ones in the 1980s, none in the Great Depression or during the recent financial crisis). This is basically broad banking at work. Entry into banking is difficult, there is little effort to restrict size (though some mergers have been prevented), and there are no Glass-Steagall restrictions. But banks are tightly regulated; in particular there are stringent capital requirements. Perhaps we could learn as much from this as from US banking history. Maybe the Canadian system is so safe that it stifles innovation, and perhaps we are better off with more innovation and periodic crises. However, it pays to think carefully about this before we implement another fix.

Source: http://newmonetarism.blogspot.com/2011/01/banking-regulation.html

Second, I'm not really sure if it's a good idea to increase the corporate income tax. I think it's a gread idea to eliminate loopholes to equalize tax treatment of capital income, so that GE doesn't pay zero to negative taxes for example. But I think that measure would be best complemented by lowering the corporate income tax overall, though this matter, again, should be sorted out by the experts.

With respect to corporate personhood, I don't really know much of the legal details. Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia:

Corporations as legal entities have always been able to perform commercial activities, similar to a person acting as a sole proprietor, such as entering into a contract or owning property. Therefore corporations have always had a 'legal personality' for the purposes of conducting business while shielding individual stockholders from personal liability (i.e., protecting personal assets which were not invested in the corporation).

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood

I think allowing stockholders limited liability is absolutely essential for a robust economy. Besides that, though, I have nothing in principle about limiting the civil rights of corporations.

 

[Gallbaro]

So they are protesting for less government interference with the market? Because that is essentially the bail out spiel.

 

[theignoramus]

Joe Stiglitz lectures at OccupyWallStreet
http://yfrog.com/z/hs32tqzj

 

[empty vessel]

Reasonable people would work toward a series of carefully thought-out, obtainable goals, not a laundry list of demands put up by the throng. And, of course, reasonable folk would also be inclined toward a less dismissive attitude. But there you go, my good sir.

The citizen's role in a republican democracy is to make political demands and to make them in a way that maximally applies political pressure to elected representatives. In a society like ours in which the political system is so easily distorted by money, this role of the citizen to loudly make demands is all the more critical. What you seem to advocate is a recipe for the triumph of money over the political will of the people.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Joe Stiglitz lectures at OccupyWallStreet
http://yfrog.com/z/hs32tqzj

Old Colbert Interview

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/188445/october-14-2008/joseph-stiglitz

 

[TxdoHawk]

Cop stops teacher to argue about second amendment. Also eyeballs me real hard

Knowing the mindset of the average NYPD guy in these circumstances, he's probably trying to think of an excuse to smash your camera. Policemen don't like this new trend of having to explain their recorded actions when they get posted to the internet.

 

[Funky Papa]

Knowing the mindset of the average NYPD guy in these circumstances, he's probably trying to think of an excuse to smash your camera. Policemen don't like this new trend of having to explain their recorded actions when they get posted to the internet.

That has to be the less presentable cop I've ever seen in NY. He looks like a piece of meat in a uniform.

 

[MilesWebber]

"Occupy Austin" is set for October 6th at the Capitol Building.

 

[Always-honest]

Well, well, it's the latest rage it seems.
Nice, must feel really special for the time it lasts. "They were there..."

 

[pj]

Knowing the mindset of the average NYPD guy in these circumstances, he's probably trying to think of an excuse to smash your camera. Policemen don't like this new trend of having to explain their recorded actions when they get posted to the internet.

I was kind of exaggerating when I said he was eyeballing me. He was probably more confused than mad about me taking a picture. Also he was talking while I took the pic which is why his mouth is weird.

 

[TxdoHawk]

I was kind of exaggerating when I said he was eyeballing me. He was probably more confused than mad about me taking a picture. Also he was talking while I took the pic which is why his mouth is weird.

I'll have to trust you on this one since you were actually there, but that to me looks like a guy looking for trouble.

So have the crowds largely cleared out in the past few days? This does not look like a protest of "thousands" as reported.

Edit: I can't really get behind nitpicking individual signs. Even in an organized protest you've got the fringe element, never mind a cobbled-together mass still trying to hash out their agenda.

 

[DiscoJer]

Abolish the IRS? ...why?

That's funny - that sign would fit right in at a Tea Party event.

Stop Spending? Check

Start Sharing? Eh, maybe not, unless you mean charity, which conservatives are big on.

Abolish the Fed? Hell yeah

Abolish the IRS? Ditto

 

[pj]

I'll have to trust you on this one since you were actually there, but that to me looks like a guy looking for trouble.

So have the crowds largely cleared out in the past few days? This does not look like a protest of "thousands" as reported.

He definitely wanted to start shit. I saw him rolling his eyes at someone, then he walked about 10 feet out of his way to stop that teacher as she was leaving the area and said "You don't like the second amendment? Just remember, the second amendment guarantees the other 26." She responded, but I didn't hear what she said because I was busy taking the picture.

There were definitely thousands there. It's kind of a tight area so I wasn't able to get a shot of everything.

Here's one I found that shows more people
http://twitpic.com/6u7yeu

 

[ErasureAcer]

So are these new Occupy rallies going to be real occupations or just occasional protest days?

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Last chance to join in on the Podcast!

 

[cooljeanius]

Last chance to join in on the Podcast!

Adding on to this, it's in like an hour or so, so if people are interested, hop on Skype if you can.

 

[dinazimmerman]

The perception that the American people are not in favor of "nationalized health care" is the result of the Tea Party - a minority of the voting populous - and the massive amount of coverage their positions received.

Majority Would Pay Higher Taxes For Universal Health Care

Policies that people say they support in surveys =/= policies that politicians need to support in order to get people to vote for them.

 

[SolKane]

"Occupy Austin" is set for October 6th at the Capitol Building.

You sure you have the location right? The website says City Hall, not the Capitol (although that would make more sense).

 

[Bloodbeard]

So are these new Occupy rallies going to be real occupations or just occasional protest days?

I'll tell you what, they will be exactly how the people want them to be.