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[Dude Abides]

Listening to Dave Ramsay now at work... you guys should tune in. schooling all the occupy wall-street callers...

I have a big boy job so I can't listen to talk radio financial hucksters at work.

 

[Slappers Only]

"Son, you need to look something up before you get all pissed off about it. If you're going to be angry, do so knowledgeably."

Thanks for introducing me to Dave Ramsey. Such a relief from all the inexperienced, state university bred daily show devotees prattling on all over my facebook page. Man, I could write your updates for you, you twits.

 

[kame-sennin]

Listening to Dave Ramsay now at work... you guys should tune in. schooling all the occupy wall-street callers...

I'd like to see him talk to this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Covd7_O1ARE

 

[aronnov reborn]

Dear Occupy Wallstreet from Dave Ramsay

 

[Evlar]

Here's an excerpt from the top article on Dave Ramsey's site.

But here’s what happens. Sometimes when people don’t understand something, they start to fear it. And as the fear grows, it turns into anger. But just because you don’t understand something, you shouldn’t see it as bad or frightening or a conspiracy. You should just think of it as an opportunity to learn something new—something that could actually be a blessing to you.

For example, imagine a group of natives out in the jungle in the farthest part of the world. I mean, picture a group of people who have never seen anyone outside of their tribe and have certainly never seen any kind of machine. What would they think if they saw a Red Cross helicopter land near them? And what would they think of the strange-looking men and women who jump out of the chopper and start walking toward them? They’d be freaked out! They wouldn’t know or care if the Red Cross was there to help them with food or medicine. They’d think it was the end of the world or something because their minds would be totally blown!

I hate to say it, but a lot of OWS protestors are just about as uninformed as those jungle natives when it comes to how the American financial system works. A road and an office building. That’s Wall Street.

I would like to know where he gets this penetrating insight that "a lot" of OWS protestors are benighted savages, financially speaking.

Is it financially responsible to sit around for a month protesting intsead of actually working?

I suppose it depends on the value of the thing you're protesting over.

 

[Flying Toaster]

OWS is trying to hold people financially responsible.

Is it financially responsible to sit around for a month protesting intsead of actually working?

 

[Bento]

Is it financially responsible to sit around for a month protesting intsead of actually working?

Oh come on now :I

 

[dave is ok]

Is it financially responsible to sit around for a month protesting intsead of actually working?

Depends. Did you lose your job in the financial collapse caused by the people you are protesting?

 

[Flying Toaster]

Depends. Did you lose your job in the financial collapse caused by the people you are protesting?

So protesting is a much more proactive way to fix the situation? I figure finding work would also be another good idea. There might not be a job out there that is what you had, or a job that is what you are willing to do but that does not mean that places are not hiring.

 

[Timedog]

Is it financially responsible to sit around for a month protesting intsead of actually working?

If everyone looks hard enough, they'll all find jobs! The problem with jobs right now is that the people without jobs just aren't looking!

 

[dave is ok]

So protesting is a much more proactive way to fix the situation? I figure finding work would also be another good idea. There might not be a job out there that is what you had, or a job that is what you are willing to do but that does not mean that places are not hiring.

I hear business is booming at the bootstrap factory. They're probably hiring

 

[Zabka]

So protesting is a much more proactive way to fix the situation?

Someone's gotta do it. The system isn't gonna fix itself.

 

[Flying Toaster]

I hear business is booming at the bootstrap factory. They're probably hiring

Every fast food place, and grocery store that I have been to in my city is hiring. Most call centers are hiring, and tier one tech support is as well. I didn't say they were great jobs, but an argument of no jobs available is crap. The pay might not be the same but people make sacrifices to live.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Is it financially responsible to sit around for a month protesting intsead of actually working?

WTF? Are you serious? I am sure you felt the same way towards the Egyptian protesters who didn't leave and instead brought down Mubaruk and company. Surely you'd feel the same way with any other protest where people feel strongly about an injustice. Pathetic.

 

[Evlar]

More penetrating pearls of wisdom by Mr. Ramsey:

I have my toughest critique for those who believe this: You are a thief. When someone takes my money and gives me no say in the matter, that’s called theft—whether they’re using a gun or the government. At the core of this demand is envy. And that’s not the same as jealousy. Jealousy just says, “I want what you have.” Envy is a different beast. Envy says, “I don’t think I can ever have what you have, so you shouldn’t have it either.” Decades of horrible economic teaching and the politics of envy have kept this monster alive and growing and moving forward.

This way of thinking makes you assume that all rich people are evil and have scammed their way into wealth. That may be true in the tale of Robin Hood, but I choose to live in the real world. Sure, there are some scoundrels, but the vast majority of successful men and women got that way by working hard and serving people—lots of people. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates changed the world in ways we’re just now starting to realize. Their positive impact on the world has helped all of us live better lives, and they made fortunes for themselves by doing so. Why is it that you’re holy if you help one person but evil if you help a million? That’s just stupid.


A good friend of mine is a country music legend. He’s made a bazillion dollars over his career, and he just bought a $400,000 car. He’s worked like a crazy person his whole life, spending decades in tour buses, writing songs in the middle of the night, and entertaining enormous crowds of cheering fans. He paid a price to get there, and I’m happy for his success. Would it be right for me to walk into his house and demand my “fair share” of his wealth? Heck no! I’m a terrible singer! I didn’t do one thing to contribute to his success, so why would I be entitled to a share of his wealth? He’s given me years of entertainment through his music. That’s my fair share of his hard work.

My problems aren’t his fault. And my problems aren’t McDonald’s fault or Home Depot’s fault or Walmart’s fault, either. My problems are my fault! And the more people these companies serve, the more money they make—and that’s none of my business! If you don’t like McDonald’s, then here’s an idea: Don’t eat there. But don’t walk into the restaurant and demand a portion of their proceeds for the day.

When you scream, “I’m in the 99%!” you just look like a whiner. Those of us willing to pay the price to win look at you and shrug. Heck, when it comes to the music business, I’m in the 99% myself! But that doesn’t mean I have to tear Toby Keith, Brad Paisley or even Kanye down. Oh, and a special note just for Kanye: Capitalism has been pretty good to you. I celebrate your success, but you look a little hypocritical protesting capitalism while wearing a $50,000 watch.

Yes, that's right. Taxation is apparently theft. We are all hermetically sealed islands, and if some of those islands are more lush than yours, well, it must be your problem.

 

[dave is ok]

Every fast food place, and grocery store that I have been to in my city is hiring. Most call centers are hiring, and tier one tech support is as well. I didn't say they were great jobs, but an argument of no jobs available is crap. The pay might not be the same but people make sacrifices to live.

If you have a mortgage payment and a family, eight dollars an hour isn't going to help you "live"

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

If you have a mortgage payment and a family, eight dollars an hour isn't going to help you "live"

Well, work 5 of those jobs. If you don't your lazy! Oh, wait, you're a single parent? Just strap your kid to your back while working those 5 jobs. MAN UP!

 

[aronnov reborn]

If everyone looks hard enough, they'll all find jobs! The problem with jobs right now is that the people without jobs just aren't looking!

it's not going to be a good job but i agree. I actually just got a second job. only 12 hours and minimum wage but i want more money to save for my daughters college. this makes me greedy i guess.

 

[aronnov reborn]

If you have a mortgage payment and a family, eight dollars an hour isn't going to help you "live"

if you have a family and a morgage and only make 8 dollars an hour then you qualify for government aide already.

 

[Enron]

If you have a mortgage payment and a family, eight dollars an hour isn't going to help you "live"

No, but it's a lot better than 0 dollars. I just had a buddy go through this - lost his job, sat around bitching about not wanting to take a crap job, took a crap job and then 2 months later got hired on at the same company for a position he was more suited for at nearly 2x the salary.

After my father died, my mom worked for 10 bucks an hour keeping books for a local granite company in addition to receiving social security benefits to raise me and my sister.

Working a crappy job is better than not working at all.

 

[dave is ok]

it's not going to be a good job but i agree. I actually just got a second job. only 12 hours and minimum wage but i want more money to save for my daughters college. this makes me greedy i guess.

You want it be one way, but it's the other way

 

[Flying Toaster]

If you have a mortgage payment and a family, eight dollars an hour isn't going to help you "live"

No but perhaps two jobs will, sitting around with a sign for a month won't help you live either.

Honestly I have no issue with the idea of OWS. I would love to actually see a movement much larger sitting in Washington. Tax loopholes are crap, the tax system is archaic and broken, the way business takes advantage of the overall situation is beyond disgusting.

Honestly though, don't hate the players hate the game. You want change, then convince your elected officials that seem to have a great disconnect with their own people to push for changes in how the tax system and its loopholes are exploited.

 

[richiek]

So protesting is a much more proactive way to fix the situation? I figure finding work would also be another good idea. There might not be a job out there that is what you had, or a job that is what you are willing to do but that does not mean that places are not hiring.

lol

There are not enough jobs out there, not even the shitty ones.

 

[Marleyman]

So what do you feel needs to happen to bring about the change you want? I am not going to assume you are agreeing with the post you quoted and I hope that is not the case.

Honestly? To get sweeping, radical change the movement needs to grow exponentially and keep violence out of it, no matter how it might seem that it is needed.

 

[Dude Abides]

I wonder why unemployment went from 5 to 9 in a couple years. There must have been a sudden epidemic of chronic laziness that swept the country.

 

[Marleyman]

You want change, then convince your elected officials that seem to have a great disconnect with their own people to push for changes in how the tax system and its loopholes are exploited.

You really think this still works?

 

[Timedog]

it's not going to be a good job but i agree. I actually just got a second job. only 12 hours and minimum wage but i want more money to save for my daughters college. this makes me greedy i guess.

Wait. Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait a second. So you actually agree that there's not a problem with jobs right now, and that every unemployed person could find start working if they were to look for any job, instead of looking for a specific job.

I reaalllllllly hope that you're not that dumb. And I do absolutely mean dumb.

 

[Evlar]

I wonder why unemployment went from 5 to 9 in a couple years. There must have been a sudden epidemic of chronic laziness that swept the country.

Or maybe all the good jobs just suddenly transformed to shit jobs overnight.

... Why we wouldn't be allowed to protest that, I don't know.

 

[venne]

Honestly though, don't hate the players hate the game.

Players run the game.

 

[Flying Toaster]

I wonder why unemployment went from 5 to 9 in a couple years. There must have been a sudden epidemic of chronic laziness that swept the country.

The Dude abides.

 

[dave is ok]

No but perhaps two jobs will, sitting around with a sign for a month won't help you live either.

Honestly I have no issue with the idea of OWS. I would love to actually see a movement much larger sitting in Washington. Tax loopholes are crap, the tax system is archaic and broken, the way business takes advantage of the overall situation is beyond disgusting.

Honestly though, don't hate the players hate the game. You want change, then convince your elected officials that seem to have a great disconnect with their own people to push for changes in how the tax system and its loopholes are exploited.

See, you understand that things are broken - and you yourself are getting fucked by having to work two jobs instead of spending more time with your family, but you're still defending it.

Your elected official has to choose between listening to your demands or the demands of the very rich people funding his re-election. What is he going to do?

 

[Wazzim]

I wonder why unemployment went from 5 to 9 in a couple years. There must have been a sudden epidemic of chronic laziness that swept the country.

Blame the mexicans!

 

[aronnov reborn]

Wait. Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait a second. So you actually agree that there's not a problem with jobs right now, and that every unemployed person could find start working if they were to look for any job, instead of looking for a specific job.

I reaalllllllly hope that you're not that dumb. And I do absolutely mean dumb.

I know there's not 25 million open jobs right this second. but if more of these people were actually looking there would be ZERO unskilled jobs open... I had my pick from thousands in middle TN for a second job and extra money.

 

[Flying Toaster]

You really think this still works?

Hell no, but that is how American governemnt is designed to work. Sitting outside of a bunch of banks complaining isn't fixing anything.

 

[Marleyman]

Hell no, but that is how American governemnt is designed to work. Sitting outside of a bunch of banks complaining isn't fixing anything.

Of course, but those days are long gone. So if complaining doesn't work what will, in your estimation?

 

[aronnov reborn]

Hell no, but that is how American governemnt is designed to work. Sitting outside of a bunch of banks complaining isn't fixing anything.

It's making some of us giggle at least.

 

[Marleyman]

It's making some of us giggle at least.

Would you giggle if the banks were being firebombed?

 

[dave is ok]

had my pick from thousands in middle TN for a second job and extra money.

In NYC, you probably couldn't find those jobs. Just saying

 

[aronnov reborn]

Would you giggle if the banks were being firebombed?

is that one of the threats of the movement?

 

[remnant]

Every fast food place, and grocery store that I have been to in my city is hiring. Most call centers are hiring, and tier one tech support is as well. I didn't say they were great jobs, but an argument of no jobs available is crap. The pay might not be the same but people make sacrifices to live.

There was a poll I read yesterday, I forgot who ran it that said most a large segment of OWS are employed.

 

[Marleyman]

is that one of the threats of the movement?

I didn't say that it was or implied that; I asked you a hypothetical question.

 

[aronnov reborn]

I didn't say that it was or implied that; I asked you a hypothetical question.

well no i wouldn't giggle. I would hope police and/or the national guard would use deadly force against that act of terrorism.

 

[dave is ok]

The sad bit of this is that guys like arronov and Flying Toaster probably see themselves as hard working people, while the leeches of society are loafing around waiting to steal their tax dollars. The truth of the situation is that to the world at large - including your elected officials and the banks that OWS are protesting: you are no different from those leeches.

The reforms you think you want: changes to the tax code, cutting spending, etc. all hurt you.

 

[Evlar]

well no i wouldn't giggle. I would hope police and/or the national guard would use deadly force against that act of terrorism.

Interesting.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Has this been posted yet?

2008 Redux: Taxpayers to help bailout Merrill Lynch and Bank of America

Without regulatory permission, Bank of American on October 18th has moved potentially trillions of dollars worth of European derivatives into their depository arm to give it access to the Fed window, and backstopping by the FDIC and US taxpayers.

This move by Bank of America and its investment arm, Merrill Lynch, is an attempt to remain solvent, and hope for a bailout of its failed investments by the Fed and Treasury Department as the banking crisis in Europe threatens their balance sheets.

This story from Bloomberg just hit the wires this morning. Bank of America is shifting derivatives in its Merrill investment banking unit to its depository arm, which has access to the Fed discount window and is protected by the FDIC.

This means that the investment bank's European derivatives exposure is now backstopped by U.S. taxpayers. Bank of America didn't get regulatory approval to do this, they just did it at the request of frightened counterparties. Now the Fed and the FDIC are fighting as to whether this was sound. The Fed wants to "give relief" to the bank holding company, which is under heavy pressure. – Daily Bail

Bank of America is not the only financial institution attempting to use the taxpayers as a backstop to protect their potential losses, as according to Bloomberg, JP Morgan is also moving up to $79 Trillion in European backed derivatives to where they will be guarnteed by the FED, and the FDIC.

It appears that the banks are relying on the Too Big To Fail mentality of the Teasury Department, and the legislators in Washington to have little choice but to institute a bailout of massive proportions should these derivatives be called in for Euro failures. Only this time, the cost would be 10 times the amount taxpayers spent bailing out institutions during the 2008 credit crisis.

For the American people, these moves by Bank of America and JP Morgan should be severe warnings to just how bad the global credit crisis is becoming, and the potential for over $100 trillion in derivatives to be thrust on the US taxpayers. It is ironic that Merril Lynch once again is the center of controversy for too big to fail, but this time, there may not be enough dollars in circulation to save the banks should the worst case scenario come to pass.

Bloomberg article

 

[Marleyman]

well no i wouldn't giggle. I would hope police and/or the national guard would use deadly force against that act of terrorism.

Good; do you feel the same way about Goldman Sachs and others, who have brought down the world economy? I mean, isn't that worse than firebombing a bank?

 

[NullPointer]

I find it kindof funny to blame the government instead of the banks, as if the government came up with deregulation on its own initiative with no backing or pressure from the finance sector.

Money + Public Pressure -> Government -> Laws

 

[aronnov reborn]

The sad bit of this is that guys like arronov and Flying Toaster probably see themselves as hard working people, while the leeches of society are loafing around waiting to steal their tax dollars. The truth of the situation is that to the world at large - including your elected officials and the banks that OWS are protesting: you are no different from those leeches.

The reforms you think you want: changes to the tax code, cutting spending, etc. all hurt you.

I dont think other people are leeches. I do think though that people are envious and the government are the leeches.

I dont make alot of money. I'm lower middle class if that. I'm not envious of what anyone else has. I'm happy for them. I dont want anything they have and i dont want anyone to have what i have.

 

[remnant]

The sad bit of this is that guys like arronov and Flying Toaster probably see themselves as hard working people, while the leeches of society are loafing around waiting to steal their tax dollars. The truth of the situation is that to the world at large - including your elected officials and the banks that OWS are protesting: you are no different from those leeches.

The reforms you think you want: changes to the tax code, cutting spending, etc. all hurt you.

As evidenced by the fact that countries that cut spending, reformed regulations and strengthened their private sector saw quality of life decrease.

Oh wait the exact opposite happened.

 

[venne]

I dont think other people are leeches. I do think though that people are envious and the government are the leeches.

I dont make alot of money. I'm lower middle class if that. I'm not envious of what anyone else has. I'm happy for them. I dont want anything they have and i dont want anyone to have what i have.

Defend the hive, drone.