• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

"OCCUPY WALL STREET"

Status
Not open for further replies.
El Sloth said:
You know, their hearts are in the right place. It's just that their brains aren't.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. No one here is claiming otherwise. However, stupidity doesn't get a free pass. (Apparently that puts me on a high horse...)
 
dave is ok said:
No, it just makes both of you a very vocal minority. You're all over this thread shitting all over these people and it's very tiresome to read.
Click to expand...

Then don't read it.

brucewaynegretzky said:
EDIT: The more I think about it I don't think they've talked about ONE SINGLE THING that had to do with actually reforming what Wall St. does with the one exception of Glass Steagall that someone mentioned before, but that has been BY FAR the least evident thing in this protest.
Click to expand...

Oddly enough that is coming from the LaRouche people.
 
dave is ok said:
No, it just makes both of you a very vocal minority. You're all over this thread shitting all over these people and it's very tiresome to read.



Sure they are
Click to expand...

Which is funny because I've been reading nearly identical statements ALL OVER this board about the tea party for months. I don't EVER defend those morons. But when someone tries to actually level the debate past screaming at eachother they're all of a sudden "picking on the little guy. Both sides should be held to the same standards, and around here the other side is regularly ridiculed.

Also it's funny how these guys get a pass for being HORRIBLY disjointed, but any random act of confusion from the tea party you can find is worth ridiculing.

dave is ok said:
Kind of hard when you post 20 times per page and actively disrupt actual discussion
Click to expand...

I've been trying to get someone to describe what the hell corporate "personhood" regulation should look like. I'm still fairly confident no one is talking about anything other than campaign finance reform, but you can continue to misrepresent what I'm saying.
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
Which is funny because I've been reading nearly identical statements ALL OVER this board about the tea party for months. I don't EVER defend those morons. But when someone tries to actually level the debate past screaming at eachother they're all of a sudden "picking on the little guy. Both sides should be held to the same standards, and around here the other side is regularly ridiculed.

Also it's funny how these guys get a pass for being HORRIBLY disjointed, but any random act of confusion from the tea party you can find is worth ridiculing.
Click to expand...
I haven't been ridiculing the Tea Party at all in this thread. I just said that protests aren't able to convey complex messages because of the nature of demonstration. I actually said in this thread that it's a good thing these protests are happening even if the streets are filled with dumb kids, because at least it calls attention to financial reform.

I've been trying to get someone to describe what the hell corporate "personhood" regulation should look like. I'm still fairly confident no one is talking about anything other than campaign finance reform, but you can continue to misrepresent what I'm saying.
Click to expand...
90% of your posts in this thread have been about this. I'm pretty sure none of us started that Facebook poll. Go send a message to the dude who did. No one is even talking about taking away limited liability from corporations. Hasn't even been mentioned once in this thread.
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
Which is funny because I've been reading nearly identical statements ALL OVER this board about the tea party for months. I don't EVER defend those morons. But when someone tries to actually level the debate past screaming at eachother they're all of a sudden "picking on the little guy. Both sides should be held to the same standards, and around here the other side is regularly ridiculed.

Also it's funny how these guys get a pass for being HORRIBLY disjointed, but any random act of confusion from the tea party you can find is worth ridiculing.



I've been trying to get someone to describe what the hell corporate "personhood" regulation should look like. I'm still fairly confident no one is talking about anything other than campaign finance reform, but you can continue to misrepresent what I'm saying.
Click to expand...

So all this logorrhea is just some kind of weird proxy white-knighting of the Tea Party against the notorious GAF librul hivemind?
 
dave is ok said:
I haven't been ridiculing the Tea Party at all in this thread. I just said that protests aren't able to convey complex messages because of the nature of demonstration. I actually said in this thread that it's a good thing these protests are happening even if the streets are filled with dumb kids, because at least it calls attention to financial reform.


90% of your posts in this thread have been about this. I'm pretty sure none of us started that Facebook poll. Go send a message to the dude who did. No one is even talking about taking away limited liability from corporations. Hasn't even been mentioned once in this thread.
Click to expand...

You just missed the point completely. The point is that the Tea Party is called out on their stupidity all over, not just in this thread, so why wouldn't you call out this stupidity when its evident? You want these guys to be free from scrutiny because you agree with them. That's just dumb. The tea party is right about one or two things too. Doesn't mean they aren't a bunch of jackasses who deserved to be ridiculed as a whole.

This gets back to my point that these people don't have a coherent message beyond being generally pissed off. I get that no one has said "limited liability" but its pretty heavily implied. If they're just talking about campaign finance then why not just say that? There seems to be good evidence because they don't know what they're talking about. When the hell did the discussion get limited to only things people have said in this thread. We're trying to divine some sort of meaning from this mess of tea leaves you calll a protest. So far all I've got is "We're angry about something but we don't know enough about it to articulate what we would like to change." At least the tea party yells at identifiable THINGS like the EPA or the Health Care Bill. These guys haven't even identified an organization or policy that they dislike.
 
Dude Abides said:
So all this logorrhea is just some kind of weird proxy white-knighting of the Tea Party against the notorious GAF librul hivemind?
Click to expand...

Come on really? I think they're a bunch of morons too. I hate them more. They clog my metro on a regular basis.

My point is how can anyone take you seriously if all you can do is incoherently yell at the other side?

EDIT: I can't believe I'm being interpreted as DEFENDING the tea party. Why can't I just have higher standard for political discourse?
 
Slayven said:
NYGGA.com?
Click to expand...
I recall seeing a name mention for a New York something General Assembly, which despite it's name, I've seen described as an anarchist group.

At least that's the only thing I could figure was the point of the website, even though nothing is actually on the site. Oh yeah searching it in Google, no Google, I didn't mean that!
 
Dude Abides said:
So all this logorrhea is just some kind of weird proxy white-knighting of the Tea Party against the notorious GAF librul hivemind?
Click to expand...

no its calling out stupidity when you see it. it doesnt suddenly become wrong or immoral when the you happen to like the group being criticized. the tea party keeps being brought up because they are ruthlessly made fun of in this forum (rightfully so) for similar reasons as these wall st protesters

all ive seen is manos bring the lulz and a group of posters dog piling on him adding absolutely nothing to this thread. i wish the rest of you guys had less butthurt wah-wah and more intelligent discussion about the topics at hand. however it has been quite amusing to read so far so feel free to continue
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
I can't believe I'm being interpreted as DEFENDING the tea party. Why can't I just have higher standard for political discourse?
Click to expand...
I said: Name one protest with a complicated message that was conveyed properly.

You said: The tea party is WAY clearer. Cut spending. Reduce gov't.

Then I linked a video with Tea Party people talking about blacks, abortions, Hollywood, etc.
 
dave is ok said:
I said: Name one protest with a complicated message that was conveyed properly.

You said: The tea party is WAY clearer. Cut spending. Reduce gov't.

Then I linked a video with Tea Party people talking about blacks, abortions, Hollywood, etc.
Click to expand...

Like I said: I've seen the Tea Party rage at numerous THINGS EPA, Healthcare law, specific foreign policies, etc. Name one thing this group of people have talked about that can be changed by gov't. A piece of legislation, an officer, ANYTHING. All we have are vague statements about "Wall St." are we talking about banks? Hedge funds? What? These people don't even know who their opponents are.
 
dave is ok said:
I said: Name one protest with a complicated message that was conveyed properly.

You said: The tea party is WAY clearer. Cut spending. Reduce gov't.

Then I linked a video with Tea Party people talking about blacks, abortions, Hollywood, etc.
Click to expand...
That is what leaders, speakers, and figureheads are for. I am not defending the Tea Party I think they have an racist undertone, but they do have people that get their messages across clearly. Even if it is stupid.
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
Like I said: I've seen the Tea Party rage at numerous THINGS EPA, Healthcare law, specific foreign policies, etc. Name one thing this group of people have talked about that can be changed by gov't. A piece of legislation, an officer, ANYTHING. All we have are vague statements about "Wall St." are we talking about banks? Hedge funds? What? These people don't even know who their opponents are.
Click to expand...
Ones I've seen talked about? Repeal Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act/Reinstate Glass Steagall, Regulate the Securities Market, Raise taxes on Hedge Fund managers. Probably a few others regarding the Fed, SEC, ratings agencies and oil futures
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
Come on really? I think they're a bunch of morons too. I hate them more. They clog my metro on a regular basis.

My point is how can anyone take you seriously if all you can do is incoherently yell at the other side?

EDIT: I can't believe I'm being interpreted as DEFENDING the tea party. Why can't I just have higher standard for political discourse?
Click to expand...

That's a lot of words to say "yes." Raging at these people because they haven't produced a white paper seems kind of dumb, although I guess it's gratifying on some level to pat your back about how much smarter you are than they are.

As an aside, are you saying that corporate personhood is the same thing as limited liability? Your posts are a bit unclear on that subject.
 
dave is ok said:
Ones I've seen talked about? Repeal Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act/Reinstate Glass Steagall, Regulate the Securities Market, Raise taxes on Hedge Fund managers. Probably a few others.
Click to expand...

In this thread or in the protest? Pretty sure part of the discussion has been how poorly those points have been made. Also even if those points have been made they've been done with the same factual error issues and uniformed undertones that the tea party is famous for. If those things are worth ridiculing there they're worth ridiculing here. I agree with pretty much all of those things to varying degrees. However, this protest does NOTHING to advance those goals, and to a degree stigmatizes those who do have those goals as only being able to persuade idiots.
 
Dude Abides said:
That's a lot of words to say "yes." Raging at these people because they haven't produced a white paper seems kind of dumb, although I guess it's gratifying on some level to pat your back about how much smarter you are than they are.

As an aside, are you saying that corporate personhood is the same thing as limited liability? Your posts are a bit unclear on that subject.
Click to expand...

I'm not raging at these people for not having a white paper. The point is its hypocritical. If we're going to be the people calling out the tea party for destroying American discourse, then we can't resort to the same tactics.

My point is that to what degree "personhood" is a problem hasn't been explained by anyone. It's really only relevant in a first amendment context, and that is campaign finance. Limited Liability seems to be the most rational conclusion to draw from "other" problems with personhood because people seem to have a problem with them being looked at as some sort of "separate entity."
 
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/09/occupy_wall_str.php

Occupy Wall Street, Day Three: Inefficiency Starts to Cripple Protest

​The Occupy Wall Street protest drew thousands of demonstrators to the Financial District this weekend, when the markets were closed and the neighborhood was largely a ghost town.

This morning, as the inexplicably-timed protest entered its third day, demonstrators finally had a chance disrupt the captains of capital as they moved their enormous piles of money around

But the protesters' numbers were already much diminished, and when the few hundred remaining demonstrators filed through the narrow streets of the financial districts, banging drums and shouting "This is what democracy looks like," they found their passage by police barricades narrowing the sidewalks, and a strong NYPD turnout kept them from getting anywhere near the New York Stock Exchange.

Six people were arrested this morning, some for jumping the barricades, others for violating a law that prohibits more than one demonstrator at a time from wearing masks.

By 10 a.m., columns of protesters started weaving back to Zuccotti Park, the privately-owned square at Broadway and Liberty Street that demonstrators are calling by its former name, Liberty Park.

​There, they debated their next move, in an exquisitely democratic and maddeningly inefficient people's assembly. Participants raised their hands to speak in staccato bursts, echoed back by the entire crowd to amplify their message. Some wanted to return to Wall Street, to fulfill the mission of the event's name. Others advocated for a more long-term strategy, turning Zucotti Park into a sort of Tahrir Square of economic justice.

Originally devised by Adbusters magazine in July, the notion of a Wall Street occupation has gathered steam in recent months without identifying a unified set of demands. Protesters today mentioned goals like reducing corporate influence in politics, punishing banks for the financial crisis, and reversing the widening of the country's wealth gap.

As the strategy debate dragged on, frustration and exhaustion among the protesters became apparent. "It was much more unified yesterday," said Gary Luisa, a 21-year-old Long Island man. "People woke up today tired and cold. We need to be more organized."

Even as they continue to debate strategy, the remaining protesters say they're not giving up and will remain in lower Manhattan for the foreseeable future.
Click to expand...
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
I'm not raging at these people for not having a white paper. The point is its hypocritical. If we're going to be the people calling out the tea party for destroying American discourse, then we can't resort to the same tactics.

My point is that to what degree "personhood" is a problem hasn't been explained by anyone. It's really only relevant in a first amendment context, and that is campaign finance. Limited Liability seems to be the most rational conclusion to draw from "other" problems with personhood because people seem to have a problem with them being looked at as some sort of "separate entity."
Click to expand...

Who's going to be the people calling out the tea party for destroying American discourse? Posters in NeoGAF OT? Who gives a shit if some (unnamed) posters make fun of the tea party but don't make fun of these people? Why on earth would you spend one minute of your time worrying about the alleged hypocrisy of some undefined unknown group of people on the internet? This is taking concern trolling to new depths.
 
They need to find a way to do this in the actual Wall Street. They already lost, getting preempted by the pigs. They already have people cutting them down against their own self-interest, more concerned with their workday than the message that should be conveyed.

This should be reorganized and done again in 3 to 6 months. Get Moveon to help or something, if they have to get money behind it.
 
Dude Abides said:
Who's going to be the people calling out the tea party for destroying American discourse? Posters in NeoGAF OT? Who gives a shit if some (unnamed) posters make fun of the tea party but don't make fun of these people? Why on earth would you spend one minute of your time worrying about the alleged hypocrisy of some undefined unknown group of people on the internet? This is taking concern trolling to new depths.
Click to expand...

And that's hyperbole. The point still stands. Since the late 90's political discourse in this country has gotten more hostile. This is just adding wood to a fire from a group that has normally reserved itself to think tanks and professional activism. I'm not talking about any individuals in the OT or whatever, but this is a place where we gather to talk about issues so I'm pretty sure this is an appropriate forum to discuss concerns like that. The overall point here is that as a liberal I don't get how you can support this. We should be advocating for more education on the issues and more informed discourse. Not encouraging sound byte culture.
 
I have given up on the American people having what it takes to protest effectively. Our forefathers would have done MUCH more by now. We are too busy watching TV, playing video games and generally being lazy as shit.
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
And that's hyperbole. The point still stands. Since the late 90's political discourse in this country has gotten more hostile. This is just adding wood to a fire from a group that has normally reserved itself to think tanks and professional activism. I'm not talking about any individuals in the OT or whatever, but this is a place where we gather to talk about issues so I'm pretty sure this is an appropriate forum to discuss concerns like that. The overall point here is that as a liberal I don't get how you can support this. We should be advocating for more education on the issues and more informed discourse. Not encouraging sound byte culture.
Click to expand...
This is like losing battles because the enemy is using guns and you want to keep using swords, and you feel you're too civilized to resort to firearms.
 
Marleyman said:
I have given up on the American people having what it takes to protest effectively. Our forefathers would have done MUCH more by now. We are too busy watching TV, playing video games and generally being lazy as shit.
Click to expand...
Actually early American political protest was a lot of rioting and property destruction usually, at least in Boston in the 1760s.
 
dave is ok said:
This is like losing battles because the enemy is using guns and you want to keep use swords, but you feel you're too civilized to resort to firearms.
Click to expand...

And this is just like saying "Fuck it we're screwed anyway let's just nuke it all." Analogies are fun. I'm not saying people shouldn't protest, but damnit have some standards.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Actually early American political protest was a lot of rioting and property destruction usually, at least in Boston in the 1760s.
Click to expand...

Right. They were active and were pissed off easily, and rightfully so. These days it would take a majority of people to lose their internet connections, jobs, etc to do anything.
 
Marleyman said:
Right. They were active and were pissed off easily, and rightfully so. These days it would take a majority of people to lose their internet connections, jobs, etc to do anything.
Click to expand...

As a resident of a major city I'd strongly prefer if we didn't go burning down buildings in protest... Let's do it in your town.
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
And that's hyperbole. The point still stands. Since the late 90's political discourse in this country has gotten more hostile. This is just adding wood to a fire from a group that has normally reserved itself to think tanks and professional activism. I'm not talking about any individuals in the OT or whatever, but this is a place where we gather to talk about issues so I'm pretty sure this is an appropriate forum to discuss concerns like that. The overall point here is that as a liberal I don't get how you can support this. We should be advocating for more education on the issues and more informed discourse. Not encouraging sound byte culture.
Click to expand...

No, political discourse isn't much worse than it was in the 60s-70s, depression, or any other tumultuous time. Not sure where you get the notion that left/liberalism has reserved itself to think tanks and professional activism. There have been lots of protests like these over the years. Seattle 1999, around the Iraq War, the 2004 GOP convention, etc.

In any event, if you're that concerned about the poisoning of the discourse stemming from some hippies in lower Manhattan, it's hard to see how sneering at them on the internet will do anything to change that.
 
Umm Libya?
Protestor-with-placard-in-008.jpg


How many memes can you find (Hint:more than two)?
Anti-capitalist-placards-007.jpg
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
And this is just like saying "Fuck it we're screwed anyway let's just nuke it all." Analogies are fun. I'm not saying people shouldn't protest, but damnit have some standards.
Click to expand...
The Tea Party had no standards whatsoever, and they won 5 Senate Seats.
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
As a resident of a major city I'd strongly prefer if we didn't go burning down buildings in protest... Let's do it in your town.
Click to expand...

I am not for burning down buildings for the fuck of it. My point is that our forefathers had the balls to fight back against oppression and tyranny yet all we do is talk and take no action. I keep thinking of the speech from "Network" as I type this....

mad-as-hell.jpg
 
Dude Abides said:
In any event, if you're that concerned about the poisoning of the discourse stemming from some hippies in lower Manhattan, it's hard to see how sneering at them on the internet will do anything to change that.
Click to expand...

This is an argument I never get whenever it pops up anywhere on here, and I may even be guilty of it because it does make sense when you feel it. But isn't the point of the forum to discuss your thoughts on various issues with people? That's one of the purposes of the OT. I mean I get that it has no effect on anything, but like I said earlier I work/volunteer in an area that I feel strongly about so its not like I think I should just be blabbering on the internet. That doesn't make the discourse meaningless.

Marleyman said:
I am not for burning down buildings for the fuck of it. My point is that our forefathers had the balls to fight back against oppression and tyranny yet all we do is talk and take no action. I keep thinking of the speech from "Network" as I type this....

https://zenspurplegarden.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/mad-as-hell.jpg[img][/QUOTE]

Sure I get it. There's a valid point there that there isn't enough engagement nowadays, and I agree. My request still stands, when we get to the violent protest part can we do it in your town?
Click to expand...
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
This is an argument I never get whenever it pops up anywhere on here, and I may even be guilty of it because it does make sense when you feel it. But isn't the point of the forum to discuss your thoughts on various issues with people? That's one of the purposes of the OT. I mean I get that it has no effect on anything, but like I said earlier I work/volunteer in an area that I feel strongly about so its not like I think I should just be blabbering on the internet. That doesn't make the discourse meaningless.
Click to expand...

Sure, if you're just stating your views calling them stupid on the internet is all well and good. But you've suggested that you're trying to raise the discourse, stamp out hypocrisy, and fight sound-bite culture.
 
Marleyman said:
Right. They were active and were pissed off easily, and rightfully so. These days it would take a majority of people to lose their internet connections, jobs, etc to do anything.
Click to expand...
I don't understand your point. People aren't protesting because they aren't pissed off. If anything, it shows the level of comfort we have now compared to before. Even if we lost our internet connections, it's a far cry from starving.

By the way, I was walking to class and saw this sign left on the street all the way up on 23rd and 2nd Ave. Not sure if it was part of the protest or what it's trying to accomplish.

rVzxk.jpg
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
Sure I get it. There's a valid point there that there isn't enough engagement nowadays, and I agree. My request still stands, when we get to the violent protest part can we do it in your town?
Click to expand...

I highly doubt that we will have a choice at that point.
 
Dude Abides said:
Sure, if you're just stating your views calling them stupid on the internet is all well and good. But you've suggested that you're trying to raise the discourse, stamp out hypocrisy, and fight sound-bite culture.
Click to expand...

I mean yes and no. I've said these are exacerbating the problem. Citing this as a contributing factor doesn't really mean I'm out there in a cape and cowl punching hippies on Wall St. I don't even think I've been all that inflamatory to the people in this thread, though you're welcome to show otherwise.
 
SuperBonk said:
I don't understand your point. People aren't protesting because they aren't pissed off. If anything, it shows the level of comfort we have now compared to before. Even if we lost our internet connections, it's a far cry from starving.
Click to expand...

My point is just because you are comfortable(some kind of lodging, a tv, internet connection) doesn't mean that the issues plaguing this country aren't worth our time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Black Phone 2 | Official Trailer | Black Phone Meets A Nightmare on Elm Street?
29
2K
spookyfish replied
Heather Langenkamp and Robert Englund at the original Nightmare on Elm Street house.
10
1K
EverydayBeast replied
do you get ice cream trucks on your street?
2
69
4K
Puscifer replied
Street Fighter: The Movie is 30 years old today
36
2K
Gp1 replied
Dumb Money Trailer (The Wall Street Bets GameStop movie)
3
1K
NecrosaroIII replied
Top Bottom