Okay cool. Thanks for clarifying.
Oculus Rift - Dev Kit Discussion [Orders Arriving]
- Thread starter Gowans
- Start date
Okay cool. Thanks for clarifying.
for some reason I was thinking it was a screen per eye all along. So the 1080p version will look like 960 wide for font sizes and aliasing.
Why is he a douchenozzle? Get a grip.
They are his honest impressions and instead of just joining the big OR circlejerk, i'm glad he's actually covering the device's current faults.
Too easily are people being swayed with the "OMG 3D VR" idea that they skip the important details that make the device rather worthless as it is right now.
Sure the resolution is in the spec sheet, but if no-one is commenting on the fact that it's blur-o-vision, then people are getting the wrong impression either way.
And there's absolutely nothing at all indicating that he is just saying it "for hits". It's a pathetic argument. It's two sentences in the middle of a 5 minute video and I sincerely doubt that the Oculus Rift community is large enough to make a difference either way.
jediyoshi
Member
If people are needing someone to reiterate points OR not only already explicitly tell users, but actively makes it a point of using it as a reason to get regular consumers to literally not purchase the "current" product for that same reason, then yes, he's wasting his time. I wouldn't open a chef's oven, eat a cake that's currently baking, and then complain about burning my tongue and that the dish is under cooked.
His videos don't really get a lot of hits either way.
But a fair assessment doesn't have to leave out the caveats. It just doesn't dismiss the experience because of them.
It's a circle jerk of enthusiasm because the device is really just that revolutionary. It has a long way to go before it replaces current LCD displays as the defacto display standard; but it achieves the feeling of been immersed in another reality better than anything else to date.
Just a reality where you happen to be wearing a fly-screen mesh on a pair of snow goggles.
To my view, he is not. He just gave an honest comment about the current state of OR with pros and cons and ended it with an optimistic final word.
Everyone else seem to be avoiding saying anything bad about OR, which does nothing good. Disclaimer: I haven't seen or read every GDC review out there.
cyberheater
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It'll be revolutionary when the kinks are worked out and the device is on shelves.
For all the hype the thing is getting, I think it's interesting to hear that the current model is delivering such a (allegedly) broken experience.
I personally think there's more value in such an experience than another video of someone going "OH MY GOD IT WAS LIKE, SO REAL AND STUFF".
The thing is, he's not really saying anything new.
If he was fair minded, the comments would be more along the lines of: Yeah, it's immersive, but the resolution has a way to go as it's currently (insert his comments); but it is a development kit. This is a point that has been made before. We've also had various journos elucidate on the blurriness of the screen/lag input.
But his short review is more along the lines of: Well, it's overhyped and it doesn't work now because it's low res. That it's a development kit doesn't matter; because it's overhyped *now*.
Which is on one side of the coin 'honest' opinion, and on the otherside of it casts him as someone that is spectacularly overentitled and unrealistic about the nature of technology (i.e. a cynical and frankly stupid "nothing is amazing, everything is shit" view of the world).
Giving him some degree of charity; one assumes that he is intelligent enough that there may be a more cynical (but effective) ploy motivating his comments. After all; it's not as though the comments are made on the spot; they're edited into the video footage after giving it some thought.
If the current resolution is terrible, I don't see how twice as many pixels will magically fix it. Hopefully they'll have a faster screen too, there are quite a few comments about motion blur, probably due to screen responsiveness
Bigger problems for me are how do you interface with VR, and how to avoid motion sickness which still seems to be an issue with some people. Both of those could be a barrier to mass consumer acceptance.
Bigger problems for me are how do you interface with VR, and how to avoid motion sickness which still seems to be an issue with some people. Both of those could be a barrier to mass consumer acceptance.
The experience is already revolutionary, as you can see by the dozens (going on hundreds?) impressions stating that. it's just far from perfect -- it's a dev kit after all. I think the very first iterations of new technology rarely are.
It's completely fair to have different impressions, but acting like the device is suddenly "worthless" or "broken" because of a flaw that has been disclosed since the very beginning is foolish. Does it allow VR development? If yes, it is neither worthless nor broken.
It's completely fair to have different impressions, but acting like the device is suddenly "worthless" or "broken" because of a flaw that has been disclosed since the very beginning is foolish. Does it allow VR development? If yes, it is neither worthless nor broken.
cyberheater
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I'll take full 3D emersion over pixel density any day.
For the folks that are complaining on youtube etc... If I could I would reach my arm thru the internet and give them a slap. The enormity and wonder of the tech is simply wasted on them. A clear cut case of casting pearls before swine.
For the folks that are complaining on youtube etc... If I could I would reach my arm thru the internet and give them a slap. The enormity and wonder of the tech is simply wasted on them. A clear cut case of casting pearls before swine.
Didn't they also say this about the Sony HMD-Z1? It also had multiple threads on GAF with people drooling at the mere thought of gaming with that thing.
Sure it didn't pack accelerometers but it also promised a whole lot and ended up bombing, sadly.
If the Oculus Rift is really as game-changing as everyone says it is, then i'll be in fucking heaven. I'm just not letting my expectations fly through the roof.
Pretty much. Bloody swine. Ruin everything.
You don't need to mitigate your expectations. You just need to understand what you're talking about.
The tech is best in class head tracking and FOV (outside of exorbitantly expensive specialist headsets) that will enable the initial development on VR games and beyond.
It's not a desktop replacement, or even a consumer product - in all that it entails - yet.
I'm working on a game of this type while supporting the Rift from day 1. ButI really hope someone ...
...
this game will be far more sophisticated and thrilling than a roller coaster.
Well, I'm going to play roller coaster with your mind! To give just one
technical detail; the "tracks" in my game will be fully dynamic, controlled by
a given base, certain events, gameplay, and sound - leading to total immersion.
cyberheater
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From what I've seen. It's pretty significant. Resolution issue aside. I'm buying one as soon as they become generally available.
To be able to peek behind a corner when playing a fps. To be able to turn my head as I approach a corner when playing a racing game. Or accurately judge the edge of a platform on a platforming game.
To actually start believing I'm in the middle of a digital world rather then simply being an observer. Yeah. The revolution is coming. And it starts with Rift.
Bioshock is an absolute broken mess in 3D. It's as broken as any game I think I've ever seen. And even though it takes very little effort to fix broken games (as evidenced by what the Helix mod folks can quickly do with DX9 games), developers act like 3D gamers are just a bunch of whiny, entitled, gimmick loving nitwits. The Irrational forums on this just had mods trolling people asking for 3D fixes. And unfortunately, DX11 renders shaders in a completely different order than DX 9. So the Helix mod that so easily fixes broken 3D games is worthless with DX 11.
do you think OR should be bundled with a Controller in the Release Version? I dont know how it can it be a real success when no one knows which input they should use.
Mouse + Keyboard doesn´t look really great with OR
Razer Hydra is expensiv Razer stuff which was already dead long ago
And the xbox pad is just to antiquated for VR.
So, OR for 300$ or OR+Controller for 350$?
Mouse + Keyboard doesn´t look really great with OR
Razer Hydra is expensiv Razer stuff which was already dead long ago
And the xbox pad is just to antiquated for VR.
So, OR for 300$ or OR+Controller for 350$?
What he has said doesn't seem very unfair. He basically said what Michael Abrash said at QuakeCon except he didn't use the same words.
That is what I would expect from someone that only heard "you need to check this out. It's the best thing." without religiously following the Rift.
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
That's just the cost of early adoption. No one really knows what's going to work yet, or what certain experiments will go on to inspire. VR interfaces are only going to be refined through years of developers trying things out.
Yeah, I didn't think about this. When they release the consumer model they may be establishing a standard for input.
The reason I liked OR is because it isn't necessary to use any sluggish and tedious motion controls with it, you can just play games with the comfort and precision you always had (whether that's gamepad or KB/M) and yet still experience them in a mind blowing way. Regardless I doubt they'll choose a standard, that'll be up to the users. Racing fans will use a wheel, flight sim fans will use a stick, shooter fans will use a mouse/gamepad etc.
Maybe they could make a much cheaper Hydra type thing, more like Move maybe, I don't know if anyone here has tried Portal 2 on both, to see how they compare, but price wise, the Move is pretty cheap.
sounds hot
jacksepticeye
Member
Same, I badly wanna see some ME footage with it. It's one game this would be perfect for
I'm confused about why people want to see Mirror's Edge footage so badly. Viewing the footage on your monitor isn't going to really tell you anything. Mirror's Edge is cool in 3D, but it certainly doesn't cause vertigo by itself (coming from someone who doesn't love heights in real life).
Do you know how resolution works?
Yeah. If you want a close approximation just find any old Mirror's Edge 3D footage on Youtube. What makes it different when viewed on the Oculus is the FOV.
I already have a post in this thread about this. Resolution by itself is meaningless. It's all about context. And in this context, you need to measure resolution by FOV degree. In that sense, it'll have half the pixel density per degree of the Sony HMZ-T1 (which many, myself included, can still clearly see pixel structure on). A 1080p screen will make a big improvement, but it's still going to have fairly large pixel structure. I think Abrash did the calculations and said something like 4k screen are what you'd ideally want.
Just something people are going to have to get used to and accept. 1080p and better latency tracking still make the retail product exciting (even if it will just be the first step in the process).
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/when-it-comes-to-resolution-its-all-relative/
this was the article
(and besides even if there was a perfect 1080p/eye 120 Hz OLED display available, you'd need $3,000 worth of GPUs (triple Titans) to power that somewhat)
So we're just going to have to accept that, until both display technology and GPU technology improve, resolution will be low for the next couple of years when compared to regular monitors, whether it's this devkit or the (first) eventual consumer models. Twice as many pixels will be nicer, but is a far cry from fixing everything.
But realistically, how much does that limit gameplay possibilities ? I think the games that mainly suffer are ARMA-style hyper realistic shooters in which enemies are often a couple of pixels of in the distance... furthermore the text/HUD interfaces of games that aren't adjusted to the Rift's low resolution might cause some issues, but then again with VR I think the whole HUD concept should be renewed anyway...
edit: Abrash's slides from his GDC talk http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/uncategorized/slides-from-my-game-developers-conference-talk/
edit2: ^^^^^ that was a really interesting presentation, and it also shows that resolution is just one of the many problems that will have to be conquered in the decade or so ahead
maybe the Valve Pad or the new Xbox pad is sth. that could work with rift. Who knows, maybe M$ will release a Xbox3pad + Kinect2 Bundle for Windows and it will work great x.x (chances are small
)plagiarize
Banned
these videos are blowing my mind. if i hadn't already ordered a hydra on wednesday (backordered!) i'd have ordered one after seeing that.
watching this all come together is going to be a great experience.
watching this all come together is going to be a great experience.
They're not going after the same markets or have the same goals so it's not an issue, but hopefully the Google Glass brings more mainstream attention to VR though.
jacksepticeye
Member
I highly doubt normal flat screen 3D is the same as what the OR is doing. Feeling like you're actually running and leaping over buildings would be awesome with the OR. People have said they feel apprehensive about ledges had stuff in games when using it right now so I imagine ME would amplify that cos of the nature of the game.
Also it could cause incredible motion sickness lol
plagiarize
Banned
well yes, but you wouldn't be able to appreciate any of this without watching that footage on actual Rift hardware.
This.
Is there a reason they arent using keyboard and mouse in any of these demo videos?
I just watched the Hawken video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STUIuKPa5Wo
and the guy using a 360 pad makes the game seems so slow and boring.. its crazy.
I just watched the Hawken video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STUIuKPa5Wo
and the guy using a 360 pad makes the game seems so slow and boring.. its crazy.
I don't think the technology in the Hydra is particularly expensive either. Razer is selling it for $50 for a month, and I don't think they'd do that if they incurred any significant losses at that price. The Rift already has a base station, so you could use that to house the necessary electronics.
I'd be more concerned about latency, which I heard isn't so hot on the Hydra. Maybe it would be possible to use the Oculus 1000Hz sensor for immediate response, and continuously integrate the absolute measurements from the Hydra to keep errors from the relative positioning from accumulating.
I guess if you want to demo it to a lot of people it's easier to make them play "blind" with a gamepad than with mouse/kb. Obviously everyone who regularly games on PC has no issue with that, but you can't generally assume that.
jacksepticeye
Member
Of course not. I never said you would
Will be. I want to have the game ready when the consumer Rift
is about to emerge.
But that was my point (that you quoted). A video isn't going to show you anything. Even playing it in 3D on a monitor isn't going to induce vertigo. So it doesn't make much sense hoping for people to post videos. If it does cause vertigo, it'll only be experienced by those actually playing via the Rift
plagiarize
Banned
I think it's just because most people aren't used to working a mouse and keyboard while blind. it's much easier to feel your way around a joypad. I'm not worried myself, having had some lengthy HMZ experience, and owning a DAS Ultimate that has unlabelled keycaps, but for most people a pad is going to be easier to start.
will be interesting to see how good sth. like http://www.vorpx.com/games/ will work with OR. How good will be the 3D? How good the Headtracking? etc.
Don't really see how Bioshock Infinite is going to be playable. Based on the screenshots that were posted on Nvidias site, the rendering is a total mess in 3D. Unless Tridef has been able to solve these issues.
VorpX works using image reconstruction on the Z buffer, not actually rendering 2 camera perspectives. Which has tons of issues on its own, but should be able to avoid any issues that games have with "normal" stereoscopic 3D rendering.
Ice cold. It had to be said, though.
It's one thing to go against the grain just for the hell of it but one should at least have the first clue about the subject at hand.
jacksepticeye
Member
OR 3D isn't the same as the 3D that is in games right now